[Theory] The Rinnegan Was Not Yet Fully Awakened When Madara Initially Awoke It

[Disquiet]

MS is from the Sharingan which is a Kekkei Genkai, the Rinnegan is not.

Kishi disagrees. xD

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[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Kishi disagrees. xD

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It doesn't pass in a clan like a Kekkei Genkai, so it's not a Kekkei Genkai in the real sense of the word.

 

[Disquiet]

It doesn't pass in a clan like a Kekkei Genkai, so it's not a Kekkei Genkai in the real sense of the word.

Not all keikei genkais pass in clan. Zetsu was even surprised at Obito's use of the Mokuton Sashiki No Jutsu, and even implied that Madara chose Obito because he was special. Further making your point moot. xD

Spoiler

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[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Not all keikei genkais pass in clan. Zetsu was even surprised at Obito's use of the Mokuton Sashiki No Jutsu, and even implied that Madara chose Obito because he was special. Further making your point moot. xD

Spoiler

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It's a categorical error to compare Itachi's awakening of the MS to the Rinnegan, since the MS is awakened in the Sharingan through psychological trauma/hatred while the Rinnegan's artificial conception by Madara was brought forth by unconventional means through reverse engineering the original bloodline. And I don't see any relevance of Obito's immediate aptitude in using Mokuton to the argument at hand.

 

[Disquiet]

It's a categorical error to compare Itachi's awakening of the MS to the Rinnegan, since the MS is awakened in the Sharingan through psychological trauma/hatred while the Rinnegan's artificial conception by Madara was brought forth by unconventional means through reverse engineering the original bloodline. And I don't see any relevance of Obito's immediate aptitude in using Mokuton to the argument at hand.

Madara concluded that Uchiha+Senju=awakened rinnegan. It's manga fact that Uchiha+Senju=So6p. The sage of the six paths had the rinnegan. You haven't and cannot provide any proof that the rinnegan was not 'fully awakened'. xD

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Madara concluded that Uchiha+Senju=awakened rinnegan. It's manga fact that Uchiha+Senju=So6p. The sage of the six paths had the rinnegan. You haven't and cannot provide any proof that the rinnegan was not 'fully awakened'. xD

I never argued against the fact that the Rinnegan was comprised of both Senju and Uchiha DNA, what I am pointing out is that it's not a Kekkei Genkai that is naturally inherent in a clan like the Byakugan or the Sharingan, hence the necessity of Madara reverse engineering the original bloodline to awaken it, and you need only to look at the Original Post, Madara's wording and the circumstances and time frame of executing the Eye of the Moon Plan to know that the Rinnegan was not yet fully awakened upon its' conception.

 

[Disquiet]

I never argued against the fact that the Rinnegan was comprised of both Senju and Uchiha DNA, what I am pointing out is that it's not a Kekkei Genkai that is naturally inherent in a clan like the Byakugan or the Sharingan, and you need only to look at the OP, Madara's wording and the circumstances and time frame of executing the Eye of the Moon Plan to know that the Rinnegan was not yet fully awakened upon its' conception.

Again. You only need to look at Madara's wording to know that if Madara is referring to Nagato's rinnegan, that he intends to pass it to Obito. Madara does not intend to pass it to Obito. Nagato's 'full awakening' would have nothing to do with Obito's control over the mazou. You don't make sense.


bbl xD

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Again. You only need to look at Madara's wording to know that if Madara is referring to Nagato's rinnegan, that he intends to pass it to Obito. Madara does not intend to pass it to Obito. Nagato's 'full awakening' would have nothing to do with Obito's control over the mazou. You don't make sense.


bbl xD

That is an appeal to consequences, It does not entail that if Madara was referring to the further awakening of Nagato's Rinnegan that it means or that it follows that he meant to pass it to Obito, since the original plan all along was for Nagato to revive Madara with Rinne Tensei, so there is no point in the idea of Madara to pass it to him, but if we work on the understanding of the context that Madara meant that the Rinnegan needs further awakening and that Obito does not have the acquisition of it at the moment but none the less is able to control the Mazo because of the presence of both Senju and Uchiha DNA in him, then the ambiguity of the statement is clarified.

 

[Disquiet]

That is an appeal to consequences, It does not entail that if Madara was referring to the further awakening of Nagato's Rinnegan that it means or that it follows that he meant to pass it to Obito, since the original plan all along was for Nagato to revive Madara with Rinne Tensei, so there is no point in the idea of Madara to pass it to him, but if we work on the understanding of the context that Madara meant that the Rinnegan needs further awakening and that Obito does not have the acquisition of it at the moment but none the less is able to control the Mazo because of the presence of both Senju and Uchiha DNA in him, then the ambiguity of the statement is clarified.

"Even if you don't awaken the rinnegan, you should still able to control the mazou" or 'Although the eye is not open, you should still be able to control the mazou." At the very least, referencing the awakening of Madara's rinnegan to Obito's control of the mazou makes no sense when the full awakening of Madara's rinnegan would have absolutely zero effect on Obito's control of the mazou.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

"Even if you don't awaken the rinnegan, you should still able to control the mazou" or 'Although the eye is not open, you should still be able to control the mazou." At the very least, referencing the awakening of Madara's rinnegan to Obito's control of the mazou makes no sense when the full awakening of Madara's rinnegan would have absolutely zero effect on Obito's control of the mazou.

The full awakening of the Rinnegan is proportional to the control of the Mazo and the use of the Nine Phantom Dragons for the extraction process of the Bijuus for the Eye of the Moon Plan, Madara was referring to the presence of Senju+Uchiha DNA in Obito's body which in itself is sufficient for him to adequately control the Mazo while the Rinnegan was still implanted in Nagato. The correct interpretation of what Madara was saying is "Even if you do not awaken the Rinnegan's power because Nagato has it, you will still be able to use the Mazo because you have Senju+Uchiha DNA in your body"

 

[Disquiet]

The full awakening of the Rinnegan is proportional to the control of the Mazo

It has nothing to do with Obito's control of the mazou.

and the use of the Nine Phantom Dragons for the extraction process of the Bijuus for the Eye of the Moon Plan

Obito was not even controlling the mazou during this extraction process.

Madara was referring to the presence of Senju+Uchiha DNA in Obito's body which in itself is sufficient for him to control the Mazo while the Rinnegan was still implanted in Nagato

@bold No, he said 'not open', as if the 'full awakening' has an effect on Obito's control.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

It has nothing to do with Obito's control of the mazou.




Obito was not even controlling the mazou during this extraction process.




@bold No, he said 'not open', as if the 'full awakening' has an effect on Obito's control.

You just have to look at Obito's adeptness in the wielding of the Rinnegan, if what you and others say is true that Obito is more adept in wielding the Rinnegan than Nagato was, and if you say that the implantation of the Rinnegan was just for Nagato to learn and become adept in using the Rinnegan, then why was Obito already more adept than Nagato was in using it when he just took it from Nagato's eyes and began using it immediately? shouldn't Obito also have the same time frame of the learning curve in using the Rinnegan like Nagato did? but Obito became a master of controlling it immediately, which leads me to conclude that it was not the learning-curve of using the Rinnegan that was the reason for Madara to implant it on Nagato but rather it was for Nagato to awaken its' full potential.

 

[Disquiet]

You just have to look at Obito's adept wielding of the Rinnegan, if what you and others say is true that Obito is more adept in wielding the Rinnegan than Nagato was, and if you say that the implantation of the Rinnegan was just for Nagato to learn and become adept in using the Rinnegan, then why was Obito already more adept than Nagato in using it when he just took it from Nagato's eyes? shouldn't Obito also have the same time frame of the learning curve to use the Rinnegan like Nagato did? but he become a master of controlling it immediately, which leads me to conclude that it was not the learning-curve of using the Rinnegan that was the reason for Madara to implant it on Nagato but rather it was to awaken its' full potential.

The same could be said of Madara. He's so adept at using Mokuton.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

The same could be said of Madara. He's so adept at using Mokuton.

It doesn't apply to the same thing since Mokuton does not need further awakening in order to be adept to it, and it was not stated how long it took him to become adept to mokuton because he had Hashirama's cells for a long time so he could have become adept at using Mokuton during the years he was waiting for the Rinnegan to awaken.and yet Nagato was required to take years to become adept in using the Rinnegan. So why was Obito immediately adept in using it if wielding its' full potential if it took considerable time for Nagato to master it? Which means the Rinnegan was already unlocked in its' full power when Obito took it

 

[Disquiet]

It doesn't apply to the same thing since Mokuton does not need further awakening in order to be adept to it, and yet Nagato was required to take years to become adept in using the Rinnegan. So why was Obito immediately adept in using it if wielding its' full potential if it took considerable time for Nagato to master it? Which means the Rinnegan was already unlocked in its' full power when Obito took it

@Bold You make that sound like fact. You have yet to prove it needs further awakening. Obito and Nagato are two different people. You should know, that skills vary upon the user. "A pebble in the hands of a master."

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

@Bold You make that sound like fact. You have yet to prove it needs further awakening. Obito and Nagato are two different people. You should know, that skills vary upon the user. "A pebble in the hands of a master."

But even Obito was shown to be taking time to learn how to use Mokuton during his rehabilitation:

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So why shouldn't it apply to Madara as well in learning Mokuton when he initially unlocked that power after transplanting Hashirama's cells in him? the learning process is still there, so why was Obito immediately a master of using the Rinnegan when he didn't even had time to learn how to use it? unless, the Rinnegan was already unlocked by Nagato. So what applies to Mokuton doesn't necessarily apply to Rinnegan, Mokuton is learned and mastered, while the Rinnegan is unlocked.

 

[Disquiet]

But even Obito was shown to be taking time to learn how to use Mokuton during his rehabilitation:

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So why shouldn't it apply to Madara as well in learning Mokuton when he initially unlocked that power after transplanting Hashirama's cells in him? the learning process is still there, so why was Obito immediately a master of using the Rinnegan when he didn't even had time to learn how to use it? unless, the Rinnegan was already unlocked by Nagato. So what applies to Mokuton doesn't necessarily apply to Rinnegan, Mokuton is learned and mastered, while the Rinnegan is unlocked.

Lol is that really Obito learning how to use Mokuton? No.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Lol is that really Obito learning how to use Mokuton? No.

Oh come now, the panel speaks for itself, he was adapting to his new body and he was learning to use Mokuton at the same time, to reject that is mere denial of the fact. So you're saying then that one becomes immediately adept at using Mokuton once you have it without learning to wield it? that doesn't sound logical.

 

[Disquiet]

Oh come now, the panel speaks for itself, he was adapting to his new body and he was learning to use Mokuton at the same time, to reject that is mere denial of the fact.

So Madara worked on his balance and mastered mokuton? Don't be silly.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

So Madara worked on his balance and mastered mokuton? Don't be silly.

That's not the point, the point is Mokuton requires learning time to be a master of it, you don't become a Mokuton master immediately you have to learn how to properly wield it, so it takes time to do that, and yet, Obito, who just took Nagato's Mokuton began to be a master of the Rinnegan immediately after taking it from Nagato's corpse, so it's only logical to conclude that it's not the learning time for Nagato that necessitated Madara transplanting the Rinnegan in him, but rather, it's because he needed Nagato to unlock it to reach its' full power.