Deidara vs Tsunade

[Curse Mark]

Thanks, likewise, I'm really enjoying this

Still, I'm not really sure what to do now.. xd Getting through Katsuyu is near impossible, as we've seen what she's capable of resisting. Having Katsuyu cover her would mean that Deidara would have to resort to his trump card, the C4 attack, is it attacks from the inside. Even if she has no visible mouth, Katsuyu still does breathe, meaning that she'd be dissolved (at least partially) by the C4 bombs.

A common misconception on this site is that Tsunade has Raiton, which she does not. If we look at the page where she was said to be able to convert her chakra to electricity [

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], we see Oro talking about electricity carrying signals between the brain and the body, pointing to the electricity Tsunade uses to be of a different kind than Raton chakra. Not to mention the fact that even if she has Raiton, she has never been shown to be able to electrify her whole body like Sasuke did, so she wouldn't be able to disable the bombs in her blood stream.

However, even if we assume that she is able to, for the sake of argument, there's one thing standing in the way of her using it to counter the C4, the fact that she has no intel on the technique whatsoever, which is essentially the technique's greatest advantage. The truth is that even if there are a number of shinobi that can counter it, very few of them would be able to actually counter it, as, you need to be aware of the technique, either via Dojutsu, or intel, and Tsunade has neither of those. So, all in all, she wouldn't be able to counter the technique, and if Katsuyu is covering her, she'll be the victim. Even with her strong skin, she would be affected by the technique, due to the fact that it attacks from the inside.

Other than with the C4, Deidara wouldn't be able to get through Katsuyu, due to her immense resistance to pretty much everything. However, if Katsuyu is protecting Tsunade, it'd mean that she has no way of attacking him, so it'd pretty much end up in a draw, with Tsunade hiding in Katsuyu, while Deidara simply waits until either dies of old age xd However, since he does possess an attack like C4, which attacks from the inside of the body on a molecular level, he'd be able to kill/seriously maim Katsuyu, with the latter one meaning that Tsunade would have to desummon Katsuyu, unless she wants to sacrifice her summon, returning her back to square one.

Before I finish reading and forget, it is presumed she has raiton.
Check this.

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[Curse Mark]

Not to mention the fact that even if she has Raiton, she has never been shown to be able to electrify her whole body like Sasuke did, so she wouldn't be able to disable the bombs in her blood stream.

I said this too. See post below. Katsuyu can't sense it.

It's only presumed she has the lightning release. Can you provide any scans of her being able to do it on the cellular level? Also, any proof katsuyu can detect microscopic bombs?

 

[Edo Odin]

Before I finish reading and forget, it is presumed she has raiton.
Check this.

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It is presumed, but it has never been confirmed, and she has never shown anything pointing to her being proficient enough with the Raiton Release in order to counter the C4, as it requires you to be able to electrify your whole body.

Not to mention the fact that she wouldn't be aware of the technique, meaning that even if we allow ourselves to assume that she can, she wouldn't, since she'd have no reason to.

 

[Edo Odin]

I said this too. See post below. Katsuyu can't sense it.

Yes, I do agree :y

 

[Curse Mark]

Yes, I do agree :y

Good.
:y No way tsunade's winning

 

[BigBlade Master]

Deidara low-diff

 

[Scooby Doo]

I say Deidara wins, he is a bad matchup for Tsunade. If not else he suicides and they both die

 

[Waltz]

Thanks, likewise, I'm really enjoying this

Still, I'm not really sure what to do now.. xd Getting through Katsuyu is near impossible, as we've seen what she's capable of resisting. Having Katsuyu cover her would mean that Deidara would have to resort to his trump card, the C4 attack, is it attacks from the inside. Even if she has no visible mouth, Katsuyu still does breathe, meaning that she'd be dissolved (at least partially) by the C4 bombs.

A common misconception on this site is that Tsunade has Raiton, which she does not. If we look at the page where she was said to be able to convert her chakra to electricity [

You must be registered for see links

], we see Oro talking about electricity carrying signals between the brain and the body, pointing to the electricity Tsunade uses to be of a different kind than Raton chakra. Not to mention the fact that even if she has Raiton, she has never been shown to be able to electrify her whole body like Sasuke did, so she wouldn't be able to disable the bombs in her blood stream.

However, even if we assume that she is able to, for the sake of argument, there's one thing standing in the way of her using it to counter the C4, the fact that she has no intel on the technique whatsoever, which is essentially the technique's greatest advantage. The truth is that even if there are a number of shinobi that can counter it, very few of them would be able to actually counter it, as, you need to be aware of the technique, either via Dojutsu, or intel, and Tsunade has neither of those. So, all in all, she wouldn't be able to counter the technique, and if Katsuyu is covering her, she'll be the victim. Even with her strong skin, she would be affected by the technique, due to the fact that it attacks from the inside.

Other than with the C4, Deidara wouldn't be able to get through Katsuyu, due to her immense resistance to pretty much everything. However, if Katsuyu is protecting Tsunade, it'd mean that she has no way of attacking him, so it'd pretty much end up in a draw, with Tsunade hiding in Katsuyu, while Deidara simply waits until either dies of old age xd However, since he does possess an attack like C4, which attacks from the inside of the body on a molecular level, he'd be able to kill/seriously maim Katsuyu, with the latter one meaning that Tsunade would have to desummon Katsuyu, unless she wants to sacrifice her summon, returning her back to square one.

I've been waiting for this.

Tsunade's solution for C4 isn't the chakra manipulation of the small electrical impulses that travel across synapses throughout the nervous system but it's actually Katsuyu.

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and

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is the artists first impression of C4's radius and deidara's height...with this impression we'd expect deidara to have a long fall down to the ground. Contrastingly

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we can see the creators caused by Deidara's land minds (though the explosions appeared rather large) but not only can we see the land mines but also small stones on the ground. This leaves the question, was Deidara really that high? He certainly wasn't as their actual height is concluded

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. They were just above the forest. I can safely say that you greatly underestimate Katsuyu's height. I'll explain.

Here we see Gamabunta in front of the Hokage's residence:

Spoiler

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Now we see Katsuyu in the same location and she's slightly taller than Gamabunta:

Spoiler

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Gamabunta is way above forest height as seen here:

Spoiler

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(bearing in mind that C4 explodes from on the ground)​

With these facts, Katsuyu would comfortably keep Tsunade above C4's radius and possibly allow her to jump to Deidara, landing a a fatal attack on his bird. Katsuyu may survive C4 because of what she said about

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but thats debatable. Given that deidara had been presumably launching attacks at tsunade before realizing she could tank them with Katsuyu he should almost be out of chakra by this point.

 

[Edo Odin]

I've been waiting for this.

I was expecting you having a counter for this xd Let's see...

Tsunade's solution for C4 isn't the chakra manipulation of the small electrical impulses that travel across synapses throughout the nervous system but it's actually Katsuyu.

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

is the artists first impression of C4's radius and deidara's height...with this impression we'd expect deidara to have a long fall down to the ground. Contrastingly

You must be registered for see links

we can see the creators caused by Deidara's land minds (though the explosions appeared rather large) but not only can we see the land mines but also small stones on the ground. This leaves the question, was Deidara really that high? He certainly wasn't as their actual height is concluded

You must be registered for see links

. They were just above the forest. I can safely say that you greatly underestimate Katsuyu's height. I'll explain.

I must correct you on that one. Their height at this point [

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] was not at all their height at this point [

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] As we see in this scan, Deidara covers Sasuke in the C4 [

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] (You can also see that they truly are pretty far away from the forest when you look at the trees on the right) and then he jumps downwards [

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] After he does that, certain things happen.

1) Sasuke analyses the C4 technique [

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]
2) Deidara talks a bit, and tries to make a bomb, but fails [

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]
3) Sasuke activates the Chidori and escapes from the clay clone, disabling the bombs in the way [

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]
4) Sasuke turns around in the air, and starts moving towards Deidara [

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]

And then comes the scan which you posted, which shows Deidara only slightly above the forest. However, when considering the fact that he was falling down while all this was happening, and when simply repeating the dialog of the characters during Deidara's fall, we clearly see that Deidara was very high in the air when the C4 took place, as he would definitely fall down a fair amount of height while these events are taking place. I also feel that I should post this scan again, where it shows how high up they actually are, when looking at the size of the trees beneath them [

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]

I also can't help but doubt that what we saw on the ground were small stones, they might just as well have been larger stones, which, when considering the height that they were in at the start, seems more logical. :shrug:

Here we see Gamabunta in front of the Hokage's residence:

Spoiler

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Now we see Katsuyu in the same location and she's slightly taller than Gamabunta:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Gamabunta is way above forest height as seen here:

Spoiler

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(bearing in mind that C4 explodes from on the ground)​

With these facts, Katsuyu would comfortably keep Tsunade above C4's radius and possibly allow her to jump to Deidara, landing a a fatal attack on his bird. Katsuyu may survive C4 because of what she said about

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but thats debatable. Given that deidara had been presumably launching attacks at tsunade before realizing she could tank them with Katsuyu he should almost be out of chakra by this point.

I must disagree. When we look at these pages [

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-

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] We can clearly see that the C4 is also way larger than the forest it's standing in, in fact, it's height seems to be even greater than Gamabunta's, when comparing the pages of the two. All in all, it would just walk up to Katsuyu, and explode right into her face, as their size seems pretty similar.

And I must say that I do highly doubt that Katuyu would survive it. Sure, she can survive being split apart when she's the one controlling it, but being dissolved by atomic bombs is completely different from that, as it'd rip her apart on a cellular level, essentially working similarly to Dust Release.

 

[Waltz]

I was expecting you having a counter for this xd Let's see...

I must correct you on that one. Their height at this point [

You must be registered for see links

] was not at all their height at this point [

You must be registered for see links

] As we see in this scan, Deidara covers Sasuke in the C4 [

You must be registered for see links

] (You can also see that they truly are pretty far away from the forest when you look at the trees on the right) and then he jumps downwards [

You must be registered for see links

] After he does that, certain things happen.

1) Sasuke analyses the C4 technique [

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]
2) Deidara talks a bit, and tries to make a bomb, but fails [

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]
3) Sasuke activates the Chidori and escapes from the clay clone, disabling the bombs in the way [

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]
4) Sasuke turns around in the air, and starts moving towards Deidara [

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]

And then comes the scan which you posted, which shows Deidara only slightly above the forest. However, when considering the fact that he was falling down while all this was happening, and when simply repeating the dialog of the characters during Deidara's fall, we clearly see that Deidara was very high in the air when the C4 took place, as he would definitely fall down a fair amount of height while these events are taking place. I also feel that I should post this scan again, where it shows how high up they actually are, when looking at the size of the trees beneath them [

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]

I also can't help but doubt that what we saw on the ground were small stones, they might just as well have been larger stones, which, when considering the height that they were in at the start, seems more logical. :shrug:


I must disagree. When we look at these pages [

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-

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] We can clearly see that the C4 is also way larger than the forest it's standing in, in fact, it's height seems to be even greater than Gamabunta's, when comparing the pages of the two. All in all, it would just walk up to Katsuyu, and explode right into her face, as their size seems pretty similar.

And I must say that I do highly doubt that Katuyu would survive it. Sure, she can survive being split apart when she's the one controlling it, but being dissolved by atomic bombs is completely different from that, as it'd rip her apart on a cellular level, essentially working similarly to Dust Release.

This is what i call a response!

I agree that given Deidara's height and the events between the panels you posted in contrast with the one i posted is not only logical but very plausible. I also agree on the Size of C4 and even if Katsuyu was a little taller, the dust clould would've still stretched a bit upwards because of the explosion. I like you analysis on how C4 works comparing it to Jinton. Nice points and good debate over all and lets not forget your irrefutable evidence.

Deidara Takes this one in the bag.

 

[Edo Odin]

This is what i call a response!

I agree that given Deidara's height and the events between the panels you posted in contrast with the one i posted is not only logical but very plausible. I also agree on the Size of C4 and even if Katsuyu was a little taller, the dust clould would've still stretched a bit upwards because of the explosion. I like you analysis on how C4 works comparing it to Jinton. Nice points and good debate over all and lets not forget your irrefutable evidence.

Deidara Takes this one in the bag.

Thanks man, you did a great job, I never expected to actually need to bring out things like C4 xd

Thanks for a great debate, it was very enjoyable, looking forward to debating with you again in the future

 

[Waltz]

Thanks man, you did a great job, I never expected to actually need to bring out things like C4 xd

Thanks for a great debate, it was very enjoyable, looking forward to debating with you again in the future

Well you were much better than expected yourself. I had hopes of pushing you to C0 but my counter for C4 just couldn't cut it.

Indeed Tsunade has much potential if debated correctly but her chances of defeating an opponent like deidara are slim. Thanks for the Debate!

 

[ItachiStyle]

Deidara is a tough guy to rank, he's just all over the place. Able to potentially beat some top level characters under the right conditions, yet hopeless against much weaker ones. In this case I can't see how he'd beat a bloodlusted Tsunade from 30m's away. Tsunade has vastly superior speed, reaction times, etc. I mean, Tsunade is really, really reactive and fast. So much so she can throw a giant knife weighing hundreds of tonnes into the air and aim it to jam shut Manda's mouth in the time it takes Manda to emerge from the ground and try to bite Bunta (so we're talking maybe a few seconds here). She's fast enough to jump a hundred feet into the air and bat away a bunch of Katon's before the other Kage can react (particularly Mei, who was trying to counter):

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This is also someone who will one shot Deidara, which means Deidara dies before he can do anything. His attacks take prep time, at least minimal prep time, while Tsunade should be able to bound at him and kill him instantly. Or just throw a rock at him. Do you have any idea what a rock/pebble thrown by someone with Tsunade's strength will do to Deidara at that velocity? It'll be through his skull and out the otherside before slow ole Deidara has even had a chance to react.

 

[Zexion~]

^ sigh you again

 

[Curse Mark]

I've been waiting for this.

Tsunade's solution for C4 isn't the chakra manipulation of the small electrical impulses that travel across synapses throughout the nervous system but it's actually Katsuyu.

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

is the artists first impression of C4's radius and deidara's height...with this impression we'd expect deidara to have a long fall down to the ground. Contrastingly

You must be registered for see links

we can see the creators caused by Deidara's land minds (though the explosions appeared rather large) but not only can we see the land mines but also small stones on the ground. This leaves the question, was Deidara really that high? He certainly wasn't as their actual height is concluded

You must be registered for see links

. They were just above the forest. I can safely say that you greatly underestimate Katsuyu's height. I'll explain.

Here we see Gamabunta in front of the Hokage's residence:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Now we see Katsuyu in the same location and she's slightly taller than Gamabunta:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Gamabunta is way above forest height as seen here:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

(bearing in mind that C4 explodes from on the ground)​

With these facts, Katsuyu would comfortably keep Tsunade above C4's radius and possibly allow her to jump to Deidara, landing a a fatal attack on his bird. Katsuyu may survive C4 because of what she said about

You must be registered for see links

but thats debatable. Given that deidara had been presumably launching attacks at tsunade before realizing she could tank them with Katsuyu he should almost be out of chakra by this point.

He was way above the forest. He was falling, and by the time we saw where he was at, we see them above the forest. And you can't compare this forest with a forest in part one outside Konoha it just doesn't make sense or work as a comparison.

But i'm a little late to the party since it was already countered and he won. That was one awesome debate. Awesome job both of you.

 

[Waltz]

He was way above the forest. He was falling, and by the time we saw where he was at, we see them above the forest. And you can't compare this forest with a forest in part one outside Konoha it just doesn't make sense or work as a comparison.

But i'm a little late to the party since it was already countered and he won. That was one awesome debate. Awesome job both of you.

haha! your right and thanks!

 

[ItachiStyle]

To the guy who claims Deidara wins, I want you to look at these 2 scans, and tell me how many seconds you think have passed between the time Manda busts out of the ground to bite, and the time his teeth slam shut. I find it hard to believe it's more than a few seconds, even Bunta and Jiraiya don't have time to react. In that timeframe Tsunade has:
a) thrown a giant knife, weighing hundreds of tonnes, hundreds of feet into the air
b) aimed the knife so precisely it will intercept manda's mouth (which is moving during all this), and
c) hurled the knife to intercept Manda (while landing on top of it).

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Do you even begin to comprehend the speed and strength involved in doing something in that timeframe? Let alone the aim required.
Yet somehow, I am to believe a distance of 30 feet will present a challenge to her. At this speed and reaction time, she will have killed Deidara before he can even form a seal. She can basically jump like the Hulk (but faster and with better aim). Nor is the above an isolated incident, a similar scan above shows her able to jump a hundred feet into the air to bat away a bunch of katons before:
a) Mei can form the seal/s to fire her Suiton, or
b) The other Kage have even moved
At 30 feet Deidara is a dead man standing, he just doesn't know it yet. He has showed no real Taijutsu speed or skills, and his best techs are relatively slow to boot up. He will be missing his head well before he can even think to use C4.

 

[Waltz]

Deidara is a tough guy to rank, he's just all over the place. Able to potentially beat some top level characters under the right conditions, yet hopeless against much weaker ones. In this case I can't see how he'd beat a bloodlusted Tsunade from 30m's away. Tsunade has vastly superior speed, reaction times, etc. I mean, Tsunade is really, really reactive and fast. So much so she can throw a giant knife weighing hundreds of tonnes into the air and aim it to jam shut Manda's mouth in the time it takes Manda to emerge from the ground and try to bite Bunta (so we're talking maybe a few seconds here). She's fast enough to jump a hundred feet into the air and bat away a bunch of Katon's before the other Kage can react (particularly Mei, who was trying to counter):

You must be registered for see images

This is also someone who will one shot Deidara, which means Deidara dies before he can do anything. His attacks take prep time, at least minimal prep time, while Tsunade should be able to bound at him and kill him instantly. Or just throw a rock at him. Do you have any idea what a rock/pebble thrown by someone with Tsunade's strength will do to Deidara at that velocity? It'll be through his skull and out the otherside before slow ole Deidara has even had a chance to react.

Misconception and over exaggeration. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o

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she can jump to extraordinary heights, this doesn't mean she's faster. You fail to provide scans denoting agility and swift maneuverability, that is what speed is.

To the guy who claims Deidara wins, I want you to look at these 2 scans, and tell me how many seconds you think have passed between the time Manda busts out of the ground to bite, and the time his teeth slam shut. I find it hard to believe it's more than a few seconds, even Bunta and Jiraiya don't have time to react. In that timeframe Tsunade has:
a) thrown a giant knife, weighing hundreds of tonnes, hundreds of feet into the air
b) aimed the knife so precisely it will intercept manda's mouth (which is moving during all this), and
c) hurled the knife to intercept Manda (while landing on top of it).

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Do you even begin to comprehend the speed and strength involved in doing something in that timeframe? Let alone the aim required.
Yet somehow, I am to believe a distance of 30 feet will present a challenge to her. At this speed and reaction time, she will have killed Deidara before he can even form a seal. She can basically jump like the Hulk (but faster and with better aim). Nor is the above an isolated incident, a similar scan above shows her able to jump a hundred feet into the air to bat away a bunch of katons before:
a) Mei can form the seal/s to fire her Suiton, or
b) The other Kage have even moved
At 30 feet Deidara is a dead man standing, he just doesn't know it yet. He has showed no real Taijutsu speed or skills, and his best techs are relatively slow to boot up. He will be missing his head well before he can even think to use C4.

It depends on the time Manda took to close his mouth, also note that the image of tsunade holding the blade took place the same time manda appeared from the ground, just at a different camera angle. Mandara had to raise up at a comfortable height to complete his attack. On closing his mouth tsunade threw the giant katana. The force of gravity is the reason it hit Mandara before he could close his mouth, this is no different from killing a grasshopper with a shoe immediately before it jumps. Also, this isn't a speed feat as i noted above, the reason why.

 

[ItachiStyle]

Misconception and over exaggeration. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o

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she can jump to extraordinary heights, this doesn't mean she's faster. You fail to provide scans denoting agility and swift maneuverability, that is what speed is.

How on earth is it not relevant that Tsunade can jump a hundred feet in the air faster than the time it takes Mei to form a seal or two? Especially when Mei pulls off her Suiton very quickly. None of the other Kages have even moved! That's clearly a scan showing good reaction time, and speed. I literally cannot see the relevance of the counter scan you posted... it has no bearing on what I just said, or my scan. It just shows Tsunade jumping and fighting... which, um, we know she can do? How on earth is that relevant?

It depends on the time Manda took to close his mouth, also note that the image of tsunade holding the blade took place the same time manda appeared from the ground, just at a different camera angle. Mandara had to raise up at a comfortable height to complete his attack. On closing his mouth tsunade threw the giant katana. The force of gravity is the reason it hit Mandara before he could close his mouth, this is no different from killing a grasshopper with a shoe immediately before it jumps. Also, this isn't a speed feat as i noted above, the reason why.

It's clearly a speed feet. She was able to do all those tasks before Manda could close his mouth. I don't know how long it takes you to close your mouth, but for me it certainly isn't long. I'm not sure why you think it takes Manda a long time either. The knife is hundreds of feet in the hair, the force of gravity didn't toss it (and Tsunade) hundreds of feet downwards in a second. Tsunade saw Manda attacking, jumped hundreds of feet into the air, threw the knife, hit Manda and landed, all in a few seconds... Deidara is 30 feet away on the ground!!!. There is no way he's going to be alive long enough to do anything. At the very least those scans show us Tsunade can propel herself forward hundreds of feet near instantly... Deidara is 30 feet away... what part of this is too confusing for you? In actuality it's far more impressive, not least of all because she lept in the air, with the force of gravity working against her, while being weighed down by a giant knife weighing hundreds of tonnes... at most she did all that in about 1 second... Deidara's techs are slow, and he has crappy fighting skills, there is no reason for us to think he can do much of anything in the 1 second or less it takes Tsunade to leap at him and punch his head off.

 

[Waltz]

How on earth is it not relevant that Tsunade can jump a hundred feet in the air faster than the time it takes Mei to form a seal or two? Especially when Mei pulls off her Suiton very quickly. None of the other Kages have even moved! That's clearly a scan showing good reaction time, and speed. I literally cannot see the relevance of the counter scan you posted... it has no bearing on what I just said, or my scan. It just shows Tsunade jumping and fighting... which, um, we know she can do? How on earth is that relevant?



It's clearly a speed feet. She was able to do all those tasks before Manda could close his mouth. I don't know how long it takes you to close your mouth, but for me it certainly isn't long. I'm not sure why you think it takes Manda a long time either. The knife is hundreds of feet in the hair, the force of gravity didn't toss it (and Tsunade) hundreds of feet downwards in a second. Tsunade saw Manda attacking, jumped hundreds of feet into the air, threw the knife, hit Manda and landed, all in a few seconds... Deidara is 30 feet away on the ground!!!. There is no way he's going to be alive long enough to do anything. At the very least those scans show us Tsunade can propel herself forward hundreds of feet near instantly... Deidara is 30 feet away... what part of this is too confusing for you? In actuality it's far more impressive, not least of all because she leapt in the air, with the force of gravity working against her, while being weighed down by a giant knife weighing hundreds of tonnes... at most she did all that in about 1 second... Deidara's techs are slow, and he has crappy fighting skills, there is no reason for us to think he can do much of anything in the 1 second or less it takes Tsunade to leap at him and punch his head off.

The ability to jump high, isnt speed nor does it make you fast. If tsunade hit Manda before he closed his mouth, it can only mean that either:

-> Manda's bite was delayed because he was still coming out of the ground (wouldn't make sense).
-> The force tsunade thrust downward + the force of gravity, doubled the speed causing her to get there in time (most possible case).

Speed comes nowhere into play here being that both panels are connecting the same incident at different angles.