Deidara vs Tsunade

Curse Mark

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Well, I must say that I do think you are underrating Deidara's speed and evasion prowess, both on the ground and when in the air. [ - ] [ - - ] [ - ] [ - ] (Lmao, the translators thought Deidara was a chick xd) I don't see him getting hit by an attack from Tsunade, neither on the ground nor in the air, we even saw that an armless Orochimaru and part one Kabuto had little trouble getting into safe distance. [ ] (We can even see how short the distance was between her and Oro when she was in the air, which points to the attack relying more on power than speed) I doubt someone like Deidara is getting hit by that kick, especially when he's airborne, as we've seen before that his Clay summons tend to be quite fast.

I think you're also misunderstanding the C2 a bit. The C2 is not the underground mines, it's the Dragon Deidara summons [ ], which he can definitely make on his own. [ ] However, you're right about the fact that he won't be able to use the land mines against Tsunade. Not saying that he can't implant them himself, he definitely can, but against Tsunade, he'd have to stay airborne to prevent getting hit, not to mention the fact that she has showed the ability to completely obliterate the ground beneath her, so the main purpose of the mines, surprising the opponent, would be lost.

Tsunade's endurance is nothing short of impressive, I won't deny that, but there is a limit on just how many explosions you can handle, even if you have healing techniques at her caliber. I wouldn't exactly say that Sasuke tanked it, as he was severely affected by it, having one of his wings completely blown off [ - ], even with the endurance powers granted by the Curse Seal. Tsunade would have to endure an immense amount of bombs like the one that hurt Sasuke, along with guided bombs, [ - ], the fast birds [ - ], while having to deal with things like Clay Clones along with it [ ]

All in all, I think Deidara's long range fighting style, along with his intelligence and ability to form good strategies on the spot, should without a doubt give him the win in this matchup. Although Tsunade may have the larger chakra reserves and stamina, she'd have to be enduring Deidara's bombs, while I don't really see a way for her to get to him.

I originally agreed with Puppydoggeneral, but it's clear you have this one now.
 

Waltz

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Well, I must say that I do think you are underrating Deidara's speed and evasion prowess, both on the ground and when in the air. [ - ] [ - - ] [ - ] [ - ] (Lmao, the translators thought Deidara was a chick xd) I don't see him getting hit by an attack from Tsunade, neither on the ground nor in the air, we even saw that an armless Orochimaru and part one Kabuto had little trouble getting into safe distance. [ ] (We can even see how short the distance was between her and Oro when she was in the air, which points to the attack relying more on power than speed) I doubt someone like Deidara is getting hit by that kick, especially when he's airborne, as we've seen before that his Clay summons tend to be quite fast.

I think you're also misunderstanding the C2 a bit. The C2 is not the underground mines, it's the Dragon Deidara summons [ ], which he can definitely make on his own. [ ] However, you're right about the fact that he won't be able to use the land mines against Tsunade. Not saying that he can't implant them himself, he definitely can, but against Tsunade, he'd have to stay airborne to prevent getting hit, not to mention the fact that she has showed the ability to completely obliterate the ground beneath her, so the main purpose of the mines, surprising the opponent, would be lost.

Tsunade's endurance is nothing short of impressive, I won't deny that, but there is a limit on just how many explosions you can handle, even if you have healing techniques at her caliber. I wouldn't exactly say that Sasuke tanked it, as he was severely affected by it, having one of his wings completely blown off [ - ], even with the endurance powers granted by the Curse Seal. Tsunade would have to endure an immense amount of bombs like the one that hurt Sasuke, along with guided bombs, [ - ], the fast birds [ - ], while having to deal with things like Clay Clones along with it [ ]

All in all, I think Deidara's long range fighting style, along with his intelligence and ability to form good strategies on the spot, should without a doubt give him the win in this matchup. Although Tsunade may have the larger chakra reserves and stamina, she'd have to be enduring Deidara's bombs, while I don't really see a way for her to get to him.


Nice points on Diedara's Speed and thanks for clarifying C2. Madara is the only other person who's dodged Gaara's high speed sand since that incident. Even Given all of this Deidara has a disadvantage as i noted earlier...Endurance and Chakra. Now we know that Deidara uses clay to mold his attacks, From analyzing his fight against Gaara, he is limited to:

3 Spider bombs:
1 clay bird:
which he for and sadly before he only he's out of clay, save one more attack as said .

This isn't enough overcome Tsunade's . Lets say we give deidara credit for his speed and lets say he does indeed overcome Tsunade's ability to regenerate from attacks, based on the amount of clay he wields, he still wouldn't be able to kill Tsunade as long as she has Katsuyu who has enough chakra to rejuvenate the entire leaf village without any complains. Katsuyu is even able to .

This rules out any possible damage done by C1 and as for C2, the giant bird Tsunade can use Katsuyu as support to gain height to reach Deidara. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o she can jump to extraordinary heights. When fighting a ground level opponent Deidara stays roughly away from the ground based on C2's height . Easy heigt for katusyu's . Damage done by clay clones are nothing for katsuyu or Tsunade's Yin release to regenerate. Also as long as is applied, diedara's bird would be shattered to dust and Tsunade would just regenerate the minimum damage. That takes care of C2. Diedara's strategic thinking is very credible but it is limited to the amount of clay he wields and the fact that some of his attacks are in the very scene of the word "suicide" depending on his distance and remaining chakra.

I originally agreed with Puppydoggeneral, but it's clear you have this one now.
I honestly don't think tsunade would win this but i'm not out of juice yet :scorps:
 
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Curse Mark

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Nice points on Diedara's Speed and thanks for clarifying C2. Madara is the only other person who's dodged Gaara's high speed sand since that incident. Even Given all of this Deidara has a disadvantage as i noted earlier...Endurance and Chakra. Now we know that Deidara uses clay to mold his attacks, From analyzing his fight against Gaara, he is limited to:

3 Spider bombs:
1 clay bird:
which he for and sadly before he only he's out of clay, save one more attack as said .

This isn't enough overcome Tsunade's . Lets say we give deidara credit for his speed and lets say he does indeed overcome Tsunade's ability to regenerate from attacks, based on the amount of clay he wields, he still wouldn't be able to kill Tsunade as long as she has Katsuyu who has enough chakra to rejuvenate the entire leaf village without any complains. Katsuyu is even able to .

This rules out any possible damage done by C1 and as for C2, the giant bird Tsunade can use Katsuyu as support to gain height to reach Deidara. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o she can jump to extraordinary heights. When fighting a ground level opponent Deidara stays roughly away from the ground based on C2's height . Easy heigt for katusyu's . Damage done by clay clones are nothing for katsuyu or Tsunade's Yin release to regenerate. Also as long as is applied, diedara's bird would be shattered to dust and Tsunade would just regenerate the minimum damage. That takes care of C2. Diedara's strategic thinking is very credible but it is limited to the amount of clay he wields and the fact that some of his attacks are suicide in the very scene of the word "suicide" depending on his distance and remaining chakra.


I honestly don't think tsunade would win this but i'm not out of juice yet :scorps:

This thread has been done before. As much as I'd like to hear you guys argue it out, this is basically where it ends.
The odds were already clearly favoring Deidara, but this is where the tables turn against tsunade even more.
C4.
This has already been argued before and it was determined Tsunade would not be able to survive.
A quote describing creation rebirth:
"By releasing the great volume of chakra stored in her forehead at once, the body's cell division is forcibly stimulated by proteins, reconstructing all organs and all tissues making up the human body. The technique itself does not regenerate the old cells, rather it hastens the creation of new ones through division."

A quote describing C4:
"When the doll ruptures, it releases a cloud of microscopic bombs that enter the bloodstream of anyone who inhales them. On Deidara's command, the mirco-bombs' detonation causes the victims' bodies to disintegrate at the cellular level; literally turning them into dust."

The old cells would be disintegrated, and unable to split into the new ones as creation rebirth works.
Well then, that's

checkmate.
 

Waltz

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This thread has been done before. As much as I'd like to hear you guys argue it out, this is basically where it ends.
The odds were already clearly favoring Deidara, but this is where the tables turn against tsunade even more.
C4.
This has already been argued before and it was determined Tsunade would not be able to survive.
A quote describing creation rebirth:
"By releasing the great volume of chakra stored in her forehead at once, the body's cell division is forcibly stimulated by proteins, reconstructing all organs and all tissues making up the human body. The technique itself does not regenerate the old cells, rather it hastens the creation of new ones through division."

A quote describing C4:
"When the doll ruptures, it releases a cloud of microscopic bombs that enter the bloodstream of anyone who inhales them. On Deidara's command, the mirco-bombs' detonation causes the victims' bodies to disintegrate at the cellular level; literally turning them into dust."

The old cells would be disintegrated, and unable to split into the new ones as creation rebirth works.
Well then, that's

checkmate.

I doubt....I already have a counter for that.
 

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Nice points on Diedara's Speed and thanks for clarifying C2. Madara is the only other person who's dodged Gaara's high speed sand since that incident. Even Given all of this Deidara has a disadvantage as i noted earlier...Endurance and Chakra. Now we know that Deidara uses clay to mold his attacks, From analyzing his fight against Gaara, he is limited to:

3 Spider bombs:
1 clay bird:
which he for and sadly before he only he's out of clay, save one more attack as said .

This isn't enough overcome Tsunade's . Lets say we give deidara credit for his speed and lets say he does indeed overcome Tsunade's ability to regenerate from attacks, based on the amount of clay he wields, he still wouldn't be able to kill Tsunade as long as she has Katsuyu who has enough chakra to rejuvenate the entire leaf village without any complains. Katsuyu is even able to .

This rules out any possible damage done by C1 and as for C2, the giant bird Tsunade can use Katsuyu as support to gain height to reach Deidara. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o she can jump to extraordinary heights. When fighting a ground level opponent Deidara stays roughly away from the ground based on C2's height . Easy heigt for katusyu's . Damage done by clay clones are nothing for katsuyu or Tsunade's Yin release to regenerate. Also as long as is applied, diedara's bird would be shattered to dust and Tsunade would just regenerate the minimum damage. That takes care of C2. Diedara's strategic thinking is very credible but it is limited to the amount of clay he wields and the fact that some of his attacks are in the very scene of the word "suicide" depending on his distance and remaining chakra.


I honestly don't think tsunade would win this but i'm not out of juice yet :scorps:

^well the reason he was limited to that was because he used most his clay for that big one forgot its name ... if you want to analyze deidara you shoud do it with his battle against sasuke
 

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^well the reason he was limited to that was because he used most his clay for that big one forgot its name ... if you want to analyze deidara you shoud do it with his battle against sasuke

He used C3 after he made the statement of being almost out of clay. I think its better i use feats and statements from both of deidara's fights, not just the one with sasuke.
 

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Why would you doubt that? My post made perfect sense. I don't understand what you could say to get around it?
 

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He used C3 after he made the statement of being almost out of clay. I think its better i use feats and statements from both of deidara's fights, not just the one with sasuke.

he already had it made.. before he started the fight... .so ya
 

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Why would you doubt that? My post made perfect sense. I don't understand what you could say to get around it?
Yeah it made sense xd i'm not saying that it didn't but when it comes along i'll counter it. ;)
he already had it made.. before he started the fight... .so ya

Nah, this is actually my first debate and i'm making up my counters as i go along.
 

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Yeah it made sense xd i'm not saying that it didn't but when it comes along i'll counter it. ;)
Nah, this is actually my first debate and i'm up my counters as i go along.

Alright, I'm anxious to hear. In case I forget to check, could you VM me or rep up or down my old post so I can see your response? Thanks :D
 

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Alright, I'm anxious to hear. In case I forget to check, could you VM me or rep up or down my old post so I can see your response? Thanks :D
Sure can do.
 

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Nice points on Diedara's Speed and thanks for clarifying C2. Madara is the only other person who's dodged Gaara's high speed sand since that incident. Even Given all of this Deidara has a disadvantage as i noted earlier...Endurance and Chakra. Now we know that Deidara uses clay to mold his attacks, From analyzing his fight against Gaara, he is limited to:

3 Spider bombs:
1 clay bird:
which he for and sadly before he only he's out of clay, save one more attack as said .

This isn't enough overcome Tsunade's . Lets say we give deidara credit for his speed and lets say he does indeed overcome Tsunade's ability to regenerate from attacks, based on the amount of clay he wields, he still wouldn't be able to kill Tsunade as long as she has Katsuyu who has enough chakra to rejuvenate the entire leaf village without any complains. Katsuyu is even able to .

This rules out any possible damage done by C1 and as for C2, the giant bird Tsunade can use Katsuyu as support to gain height to reach Deidara. Based on the angle Tsunade hit Susano'o she can jump to extraordinary heights. When fighting a ground level opponent Deidara stays roughly away from the ground based on C2's height . Easy heigt for katusyu's . Damage done by clay clones are nothing for katsuyu or Tsunade's Yin release to regenerate. Also as long as is applied, diedara's bird would be shattered to dust and Tsunade would just regenerate the minimum damage. That takes care of C2. Diedara's strategic thinking is very credible but it is limited to the amount of clay he wields and the fact that some of his attacks are in the very scene of the word "suicide" depending on his distance and remaining chakra.
Thanks, people generally seem to underrate his speed and reflexes :D

And of course, Tsunade does outclass him in those categories, however, your number of jutsu's he can preform at a time are a bit off. Note that the clay Deidara fought Gaara with was not as much as he normally uses, as seen when Sasori asks if he'll be alright with "just that bag" [ ] When we look at Deidara's prime (assuming that's when he fought Sasuke), his arsenal consists of:

A lot of small bug bombs [ ]
A slightly larger Clay Spider [ ]
The C2 [ ], which consists of:
Mines (I count 50 of them) [ ]
A guided bomb [ ]
A larger bomb [ ]
Another similar bomb [ - ]
A large pig bomb [ ]
And probably a lot more, seeing as it's tail still had a lot of balls left, when Sasuke destroyed it [ ]​
The C4 [ ]
A Clay Clone (and the bird he's flying on, forgot to mention him) [ ]
A small C4 [ ]
The two Clay Snakes [ ]
And the C0 [ ]​

This would without a doubt be enough to take out Tsunade, even with medical techs. Note that two very tiny bombs were able to OHKO Gaara [ ] Even with endurance, the combined power of the attacks I mentioned above (aside from the C0 obviously, since that'd kill Deidara too) would take out Tsunade. She may have evasion prowess, but in this case, they won't come too much in handy, due to the range of the attacks. Pure evasion is better when dodging something small coming at you (A kunai for example) But in order to block the bombs, the thing you need most is speed, which has never been Tsunade's strong point.

And Deidara's distance does simply differ from opponent to opponent. Similar to how he did against the Shukaku [ ], he'd simply analyze Katsuyu's size, and stay in a distance that's safe for him, since that's what his fighting style revolves around. In Sasuke's xase, he wasn't able to reach 10 meters (Deidara thought), so Deidara kept that distance. In Katsuyu's case, he'd simply increase his height. Tsunade wouldn't be able to jump at him, as the speed of his birds is simply too great to be caught by her punch/kick. She might hit if he's using the C2, but as we've seen, he can simply create another bird [ ], while she'd helplessly falling to the ground.

All in all, I don't see her reaching him when he's in the air, his speed grants him too much of an advantage, while if she misses, she'll be falling to the ground, vulnerable, while he can throw anything he likes at her. She may have great endurance, but she's not enduring everything he used on Sasuke, especially when looking at the fact that she doesn't possess his level of speed, meaning that she wouldn't be able to dodge nearly as much as him.
 

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Thanks, people generally seem to underrate his speed and reflexes :D

And of course, Tsunade does outclass him in those categories, however, your number of jutsu's he can preform at a time are a bit off. Note that the clay Deidara fought Gaara with was not as much as he normally uses, as seen when Sasori asks if he'll be alright with "just that bag" [ ] When we look at Deidara's prime (assuming that's when he fought Sasuke), his arsenal consists of:

A lot of small bug bombs [ ]
A slightly larger Clay Spider [ ]
The C2 [ ], which consists of:
Mines (I count 50 of them) [ ]
A guided bomb [ ]
A larger bomb [ ]
Another similar bomb [ - ]
A large pig bomb [ ]
And probably a lot more, seeing as it's tail still had a lot of balls left, when Sasuke destroyed it [ ]​
The C4 [ ]
A Clay Clone (and the bird he's flying on, forgot to mention him) [ ]
A small C4 [ ]
The two Clay Snakes [ ]
And the C0 [ ]​

This would without a doubt be enough to take out Tsunade, even with medical techs. Note that two very tiny bombs were able to OHKO Gaara [ ] Even with endurance, the combined power of the attacks I mentioned above (aside from the C0 obviously, since that'd kill Deidara too) would take out Tsunade. She may have evasion prowess, but in this case, they won't come too much in handy, due to the range of the attacks. Pure evasion is better when dodging something small coming at you (A kunai for example) But in order to block the bombs, the thing you need most is speed, which has never been Tsunade's strong point.

And Deidara's distance does simply differ from opponent to opponent. Similar to how he did against the Shukaku [ ], he'd simply analyze Katsuyu's size, and stay in a distance that's safe for him, since that's what his fighting style revolves around. In Sasuke's xase, he wasn't able to reach 10 meters (Deidara thought), so Deidara kept that distance. In Katsuyu's case, he'd simply increase his height. Tsunade wouldn't be able to jump at him, as the speed of his birds is simply too great to be caught by her punch/kick. She might hit if he's using the C2, but as we've seen, he can simply create another bird [ ], while she'd helplessly falling to the ground.

All in all, I don't see her reaching him when he's in the air, his speed grants him too much of an advantage, while if she misses, she'll be falling to the ground, vulnerable, while he can throw anything he likes at her. She may have great endurance, but she's not enduring everything he used on Sasuke, especially when looking at the fact that she doesn't possess his level of speed, meaning that she wouldn't be able to dodge nearly as much as him.

You're becoming more than skilled at this, wish i could rep you xd.
 

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Tsunade wins. She channels lightning through her body for C4, and Katsuyu sense it.
 

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Tsunade wins. She channels lightning through her body for C4, and Katsuyu sense it.

You're name makes you biased. I almost never see you say a Kage loses unless its against another Kage.

Lightning chakra to counter C4 ? Its electricity, C4 is microscopic and Tsunade has no knowledge of the attack.
 

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Tsunade wins. She channels lightning through her body for C4, and Katsuyu sense it.

It's only presumed she has the lightning release. Can you provide any scans of her being able to do it on the cellular level? Also, any proof katsuyu can detect microscopic bombs?
 

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Thanks, people generally seem to underrate his speed and reflexes :D

And of course, Tsunade does outclass him in those categories, however, your number of jutsu's he can preform at a time are a bit off. Note that the clay Deidara fought Gaara with was not as much as he normally uses, as seen when Sasori asks if he'll be alright with "just that bag" [ ] When we look at Deidara's prime (assuming that's when he fought Sasuke), his arsenal consists of:

A lot of small bug bombs [ ]
A slightly larger Clay Spider [ ]
The C2 [ ], which consists of:
Mines (I count 50 of them) [ ]
A guided bomb [ ]
A larger bomb [ ]
Another similar bomb [ - ]
A large pig bomb [ ]
And probably a lot more, seeing as it's tail still had a lot of balls left, when Sasuke destroyed it [ ]​
The C4 [ ]
A Clay Clone (and the bird he's flying on, forgot to mention him) [ ]
A small C4 [ ]
The two Clay Snakes [ ]
And the C0 [ ]​

This would without a doubt be enough to take out Tsunade, even with medical techs. Note that two very tiny bombs were able to OHKO Gaara [ ] Even with endurance, the combined power of the attacks I mentioned above (aside from the C0 obviously, since that'd kill Deidara too) would take out Tsunade. She may have evasion prowess, but in this case, they won't come too much in handy, due to the range of the attacks. Pure evasion is better when dodging something small coming at you (A kunai for example) But in order to block the bombs, the thing you need most is speed, which has never been Tsunade's strong point.

And Deidara's distance does simply differ from opponent to opponent. Similar to how he did against the Shukaku [ ], he'd simply analyze Katsuyu's size, and stay in a distance that's safe for him, since that's what his fighting style revolves around. In Sasuke's xase, he wasn't able to reach 10 meters (Deidara thought), so Deidara kept that distance. In Katsuyu's case, he'd simply increase his height. Tsunade wouldn't be able to jump at him, as the speed of his birds is simply too great to be caught by her punch/kick. She might hit if he's using the C2, but as we've seen, he can simply create another bird [ ], while she'd helplessly falling to the ground.

All in all, I don't see her reaching him when he's in the air, his speed grants him too much of an advantage, while if she misses, she'll be falling to the ground, vulnerable, while he can throw anything he likes at her. She may have great endurance, but she's not enduring everything he used on Sasuke, especially when looking at the fact that she doesn't possess his level of speed, meaning that she wouldn't be able to dodge nearly as much as him.

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I must say this is a well constructed response indeed! Here is the turning point for tsunade no doubt, countering deidara's long range strategy and manuverability and speed of his clay bird is impossible for her, even with the help of katsuyu. I say that her chances of surviving this battle now is going into defense using katsuyu as a shield from bombs and regenerating any incoming damage by the clay animals. This is light work for katsuyu. we have a good view of konoha's radius and no doubt thousands of shinobi reside in this village. As noted Tsunade along with katsuyu has enough chakra to heal the entire village. Saying that Tsunade wouldn't be able to tank damage from the bombs because of the magnitude of those blast (besides C0) is a bit far fetched. I've already proven that her normal ability to resist damage via Yin release equates to the 3rd raikage's "Iron like flesh". Unless Deidara uses a large scale attack, he'd just be wasting chakra and Mould which wouldn't be an intellectual approach to such a situation which is not like deidara.
 
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I must say this is a well constructed response indeed! Here is the turning point for tsunade no doubt, countering deidara's long range strategy and manuverability and speed of his clay bird is impossible for her, even with the help of katsuyu. I say that her chances of surviving this battle now is going into defense using katsuyu as a shield from bombs and regenerating any incoming damage by the clay animals. This is light work for katsuyu. we have a good view of konoha's radius and no doubt thousands of shinobi reside in this village. As noted Tsunade along with katsuyu has enough chakra to heal the entire village. Saying that Tsunade wouldn't be able to tank damage from the bombs because of the magnitude of those blast (besides C0) is a bit far fetched. I've already proven that her normal ability to resist damage via Yin release equates to the 3rd raikage's "Iron like flesh". Unless Deidara uses a large scale attacks he'd just be wasting chakra and Mould which wouldn't be an intellectual approach to such a situation which is not like deidara.
Thanks, likewise, I'm really enjoying this :D

Still, I'm not really sure what to do now.. xd Getting through Katsuyu is near impossible, as we've seen what she's capable of resisting. Having Katsuyu cover her would mean that Deidara would have to resort to his trump card, the C4 attack, is it attacks from the inside. Even if she has no visible mouth, Katsuyu still does breathe, meaning that she'd be dissolved (at least partially) by the C4 bombs.

A common misconception on this site is that Tsunade has Raiton, which she does not. If we look at the page where she was said to be able to convert her chakra to electricity [ ], we see Oro talking about electricity carrying signals between the brain and the body, pointing to the electricity Tsunade uses to be of a different kind than Raton chakra. Not to mention the fact that even if she has Raiton, she has never been shown to be able to electrify her whole body like Sasuke did, so she wouldn't be able to disable the bombs in her blood stream.

However, even if we assume that she is able to, for the sake of argument, there's one thing standing in the way of her using it to counter the C4, the fact that she has no intel on the technique whatsoever, which is essentially the technique's greatest advantage. The truth is that even if there are a number of shinobi that can counter it, very few of them would be able to actually counter it, as, you need to be aware of the technique, either via Dojutsu, or intel, and Tsunade has neither of those. So, all in all, she wouldn't be able to counter the technique, and if Katsuyu is covering her, she'll be the victim. Even with her strong skin, she would be affected by the technique, due to the fact that it attacks from the inside.

Other than with the C4, Deidara wouldn't be able to get through Katsuyu, due to her immense resistance to pretty much everything. However, if Katsuyu is protecting Tsunade, it'd mean that she has no way of attacking him, so it'd pretty much end up in a draw, with Tsunade hiding in Katsuyu, while Deidara simply waits until either dies of old age xd However, since he does possess an attack like C4, which attacks from the inside of the body on a molecular level, he'd be able to kill/seriously maim Katsuyu, with the latter one meaning that Tsunade would have to desummon Katsuyu, unless she wants to sacrifice her summon, returning her back to square one.
 
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