Zabuza Momochi and Asuma Sarutobi vs Sound 4

[Tartarus]

Last time I check, they whoop them with Kunais and Shirukens High Diff LOL.

They still had to resort to Curse Mark 2 or else they said they would be finished. Besides, I think Jirobo get blitzed by Asuma right off the bat and the only one of the S4 who can really survive the Wind blades or Guillotine blade is Sakon. The Sound 4 aren't weak by any means but Zabuza and Asuma outclass them.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

They still had to resort to Curse Mark 2 or else they said they would be finished. Besides, I think Jirobo get blitzed by Asuma right off the bat and the only one of the S4 who can really survive the Wind blades or Guillotine blade is Sakon. The Sound 4 aren't weak by any means but Zabuza and Asuma outclass them.

Jirobo isn't getting blitzed with teamates who have better reaction them him to support. Kidomaru simply sprays webs and its over once they get stuck.

 

[Sunagura]

Zabuza potentially solos.... Anyone want to debate this? I will counter every single argument u got

Sound genjutsu? Now counter it.

 

[Tartarus]

Jirobo isn't getting blitzed with teamates who have better reaction them him to support. Kidomaru simply sprays webs and its over once they get stuck.

right now I'm not at home so I can't do a proper fight break-down. Ill make a proper debate response when I get back. I haven't debated Asuma in forever so this should be a nice refresher.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Wouldn't Zabuza Mist disappear if he is under a genjutsu

Sound genjutsu? Now counter it.

This is the only argument you have that believes you to think Sound 4 wins. I'll counter it and hopefully change your mind right now.

When Shikamaru was placed under the sound genjutsu, he broke out of it by breaking his finger. When Zabuza is placed under the genjutsu, he can break out of it by biting his tongue off with his razor teeth. Shikamaru who broke out of the sound genjutsu had a 2.5/5 for Genjutsu in Part 1, matching Zabuza's 2.5/5. So Zabuza is capable of breaking it too. Kisame did the same thing to break a genjutsu, he bit his tongue off. Kisame also has 2.5/5 for Genjutsu, matching Zabuza's.

In closure, it isn't questionable that Zabuza can break the sound genjutsu, and once it's broken, he silent kills all of them. He was stomping Chuunin when he was edo, taking down 3 in a matter of seconds and the Sound 4 were beat by mere Genin. Also, the Sound 4 had to go V2 against fodder Special Jounin, that don't even compare to Zabuza.

Zabuza solos mid-high diff

 

[Curse Mark]

Sound genjutsu? Now counter it.

Zabuza doesn't have ears
Checkmate
inb4fanbois

This is the only argument you have that believes you to think Sound 4 wins. I'll counter it and hopefully change your mind right now.

When Shikamaru was placed under the sound genjutsu, he broke out of it by breaking his finger. When Zabuza is placed under the genjutsu, he can break out of it by biting his tongue off with his razor teeth. Shikamaru who broke out of the sound genjutsu had a 2.5/5 for Genjutsu in Part 1, matching Zabuza's 2.5/5. So Zabuza is capable of breaking it too. Kisame did the same thing to break a genjutsu, he bit his tongue off. Kisame also has 2.5/5 for Genjutsu, matching Zabuza's.

In closure, it isn't questionable that Zabuza can break the sound genjutsu, and once it's broken, he silent kills all of them. He was stomping Chuunin when he was edo, taking down 3 in a matter of seconds and the Sound 4 were beat by mere Genin. Also, the Sound 4 had to go V2 against fodder Special Jounin, that don't even compare to Zabuza.

Zabuza solos mid-high diff

You can't move in the genjutsu. That's why Shikamaru had to use his shadows.

 

[Icelerate]

Asuma and Zabuza win this high difficulty.

 

[ShaneEyyy]

Zabuza doesn't have ears
Checkmate
inb4fanbois



You can't move in the genjutsu. That's why Shikamaru had to use his shadows.

Scans off not being able to move at all? It paralyzes, but u can still move very little. When you're in the genjutsu, are u not able to blink? Shikamaru was still able to control his chakra and break his finger. Zabuza has the same skill in genjutsu as Shikamaru and a lot of more strength to break the genjutsu by biting his tongue off or something of a similar effect. Kisame broke a genjutsu by biting his tongue due to his superior strength. Zabuza's strength>>>Tayuya's.

You're basically telling me Tayuya solos Zabuza, which is bullshit

 

[GiantShuriken]

Spider webs traps them and the Sound 4 kills them.

 

[NewKageism]

Scans off not being able to move at all? It paralyzes, but u can still move very little. When you're in the genjutsu, are u not able to blink? Shikamaru was still able to control his chakra and break his finger. Zabuza has the same skill in genjutsu as Shikamaru and a lot of more strength to break the genjutsu by biting his tongue off or something of a similar effect. Kisame broke a genjutsu by biting his tongue due to his superior strength. Zabuza's strength>>>Tayuya's.
You're basically telling me Tayuya solos Zabuza, which is bullshit

No. Just no. Biting his tongue? If that was so easy everyone could bite their tongue... He used his justu to break his finger with his shadow. What does Zabuza have similar in his arena? Water? To splash his face... Hold on Zabuza uses many hand signals for that. It is basically over bro. No hand signals. No getting out. It is over.

Plus the technique they used for Kisame was not a power genjutsu. It is mind reading a skill which Aoba placed on Kisame to get into his deep secret. You can not use that as it was a genjutsu. Because Aoba, Inoichi uses that to steal info also that guy from the torture unit.
But what Tayuya uses is pure genjutsu.

Here is some manga scans for you.

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Now uses the Phantom Sound Chains which takes the person into a genjutsu

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Well the difference is the outside body does not move. Which means Zabuzua jaw is removed from mobility too. However Zabuza has no finger breaking jutsu as well as well as other who died to Tayuya in the past. Your progressively lose consciousness of the outside realm. Shik had set up a plan to throw his dagger and sense when she came to finish him off. He had the shadow on himself to break out of it once she got closer and the bind became stronger. Now explain how Zabuza does the same with water.

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Lastly, Kisame was punch unconscious before they tried to steal his information that is why they had him in an old fashion

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, to hold Kisame down during his knock out (from Gai) if he wakened up.

 

[NewKageism]

Zabuza doesn't have ears
Checkmate
inb4fanbois

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Better hope he has ears. That would be bad news for his ninja headband.

Or he could have rocked it out like part 1 Temari before she had power or leadership.

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[Brother Numpsay]

This is the only argument you have that believes you to think Sound 4 wins. I'll counter it and hopefully change your mind right now.

When Shikamaru was placed under the sound genjutsu, he broke out of it by breaking his finger. When Zabuza is placed under the genjutsu, he can break out of it by biting his tongue off with his razor teeth. Shikamaru who broke out of the sound genjutsu had a 2.5/5 for Genjutsu in Part 1, matching Zabuza's 2.5/5. So Zabuza is capable of breaking it too. Kisame did the same thing to break a genjutsu, he bit his tongue off. Kisame also has 2.5/5 for Genjutsu, matching Zabuza's.

In closure, it isn't questionable that Zabuza can break the sound genjutsu, and once it's broken, he silent kills all of them. He was stomping Chuunin when he was edo, taking down 3 in a matter of seconds and the Sound 4 were beat by mere Genin. Also, the Sound 4 had to go V2 against fodder Special Jounin, that don't even compare to Zabuza.

Zabuza solos mid-high diff

NewKageism already cover this part, the sound genjutsu is only the beginning.

Hidden Mist is a non factor in this fight. Zabuza cannot see their counter. Jirobo could buy sometime to trip Zabuza with earthquake [

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] .Kidomaru can easily set up strings for

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and once that happens, traps will be set on the

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Once Zabuza tries to assiainate one of them, he would of already fell for the web trap on the ground, around them. Jirobo puts him in the Earth Dome and its over.

 

[Takos]

Zabuza and Asuma take it comfortably.

Either of them could solo all four of the Sound at once.
Seriously, the Sound 4 barely defeated 2 low jonin, but Asuma is high jonin level and Zabuza is high jonin to low kage level.

 

[Gakido]

Zabuza potentially solos.... Anyone want to debate this? I will counter every single argument u got

I must say that I admire you for being nearly the only hardcore Zabuza fan. Though he definitely wouldn't solo, I could see him taking out two though. He hard counters Kidomaru pretty bad and is overall stronger than any of the sound 4.

 

[Tendou00]

Zabuza + Asuma stomps U_U

 

[Curse Mark]

Scans off not being able to move at all? It paralyzes, but u can still move very little. When you're in the genjutsu, are u not able to blink? Shikamaru was still able to control his chakra and break his finger. Zabuza has the same skill in genjutsu as Shikamaru and a lot of more strength to break the genjutsu by biting his tongue off or something of a similar effect. Kisame broke a genjutsu by biting his tongue due to his superior strength. Zabuza's strength>>>Tayuya's.

You're basically telling me Tayuya solos Zabuza, which is bullshit

Ctfu you just admitted it paralyzes you. Scans of being able to move your body in that Genjutsu?

 

[ShaneEyyy]

NewKageism already cover this part, the sound genjutsu is only the beginning.

Hidden Mist is a non factor in this fight. Zabuza cannot see their counter. Jirobo could buy sometime to trip Zabuza with earthquake [

You must be registered for see links

] .Kidomaru can easily set up strings for

You must be registered for see links

and once that happens, traps will be set on the

You must be registered for see links

Once Zabuza tries to assiainate one of them, he would of already fell for the web trap on the ground, around them. Jirobo puts him in the Earth Dome and its over.

I'm about to counter the genjutsu argument, but for your arguments:

1. "Earthquake" is a short distance move that tripped small genin...lol it won't do anything to Zabuza who won't be in such close distance and is way more stronger than the genin. PLus in the mist, Jiroubo won't know when to use it to hit Zabuza with it. It's a fodder, nameless move that is negligible.

2. So you're telling me Kidomaru is going to have all the time in the world to set detecting strings all around the forest to block Zabuza from coming at every single direction? Kidomaru would have to cover the ground and the trees, and he simply doesn't have the time to cover the whole area.

3. Zabuza is not falling for that trap. The trap caught Genin, it isn't catching a very skilled elite jounin. Zabuza more than likely will send in Water Clones first because he has shown to do this against multiple targets, and if anything gets caught, it would be the clones. Zabuza, knowing the clones got stuck will know Silent Killing won't work, according to your logic. So, he could just stomp them with his large scale Suiton. They are not defending against Giant Vortex Jutsu.

4. Not according to your logic, If Kidomaru put that sticky web trap on the ground around him, when Zabuza's Water Clone would get behind, his clone would be stuck, true, but that won't stop him from swinging his sword and still Silent Killing Kidomaru. Again, Zabuza stomped Special Jounin in a flashback in Part 1 and in Part 2, the Sound 4 aren't defending Silent Killing. Again, 2 fodder special jounin who don't compare to Zabuza almost beat the sound 4. Zabuza is soloing high diff.

Also, the intel says that the Sound 4 only knows of their nature affinities and weapons, which doesn't include Silent Killing. They wouldn't even know what's going on as they don't know Zabuza is a master at Silent Killing

Zabuza and Asuma take it comfortably.

Either of them could solo all four of the Sound at once.
Seriously, the Sound 4 barely defeated 2 low jonin, but Asuma is high jonin level and Zabuza is high jonin to low kage level.

Exactly

No. Just no. Biting his tongue? If that was so easy everyone could bite their tongue... He used his justu to break his finger with his shadow. What does Zabuza have similar in his arena? Water? To splash his face... Hold on Zabuza uses many hand signals for that. It is basically over bro. No hand signals. No getting out. It is over.

Plus the technique they used for Kisame was not a power genjutsu. It is mind reading a skill which Aoba placed on Kisame to get into his deep secret. You can not use that as it was a genjutsu. Because Aoba, Inoichi uses that to steal info also that guy from the torture unit.
But what Tayuya uses is pure genjutsu.

Here is some manga scans for you.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Now uses the Phantom Sound Chains which takes the person into a genjutsu

You must be registered for see images

Well the difference is the outside body does not move. Which means Zabuzua jaw is removed from mobility too. However Zabuza has no finger breaking jutsu as well as well as other who died to Tayuya in the past. Your progressively lose consciousness of the outside realm. Shik had set up a plan to throw his dagger and sense when she came to finish him off. He had the shadow on himself to break out of it once she got closer and the bind became stronger. Now explain how Zabuza does the same with water.

You must be registered for see images

Lastly, Kisame was punch unconscious before they tried to steal his information that is why they had him in an old fashion

You must be registered for see links

, to hold Kisame down during his knock out (from Gai) if he wakened up.

So does Tayuya solo guys like Darui, Kitsuchi, Hiashi, Mei, Tsunade, Kimimaru, Chiyo, etc? Because according to your logic, there is no way of breaking out of this Genjutsu once u hear it. If you don't have a jutsu like the Shadow Possession, it's over.

This is clearly BS. As I can see in your picture of Shikamaru, he was still able to move his eyes and his jaw to open his mouth in fear of the genjutsu. This means Zabuza can move his jaw as well so he can bite off his tongue with his razor sharp teeth and break out of it. Again, he has the same skill in genjutsu as Shikamaru did.

Also, just for an example, Shadow Possession Jutsu takes all mobility away from the user, right? They can still move their jaw/mouth to talk. The genjutsu is the same way, u just can't move, but you can move whatever u can in the same spot, such as eyes, mouth, jaw, as shown by Shikamaru in the genjutsu

 

[sharingansennin]

Zabuza should be able to break the genjutsu imo

 

[Curse Mark]

I'm about to counter the genjutsu argument, but for your arguments:

1. "Earthquake" is a short distance move that tripped small genin...lol it won't do anything to Zabuza who won't be in such close distance and is way more stronger than the genin. PLus in the mist, Jiroubo won't know when to use it to hit Zabuza with it. It's a fodder, nameless move that is negligible.

2. So you're telling me Kidomaru is going to have all the time in the world to set detecting strings all around the forest to block Zabuza from coming at every single direction? Kidomaru would have to cover the ground and the trees, and he simply doesn't have the time to cover the whole area.

3. Zabuza is not falling for that trap. The trap caught Genin, it isn't catching a very skilled elite jounin. Zabuza more than likely will send in Water Clones first because he has shown to do this against multiple targets, and if anything gets caught, it would be the clones. Zabuza, knowing the clones got stuck will know Silent Killing won't work, according to your logic. So, he could just stomp them with his large scale Suiton. They are not defending against Giant Vortex Jutsu.

4. Not according to your logic, If Kidomaru put that sticky web trap on the ground around him, when Zabuza's Water Clone would get behind, his clone would be stuck, true, but that won't stop him from swinging his sword and still Silent Killing Kidomaru. Again, Zabuza stomped Special Jounin in a flashback in Part 1 and in Part 2, the Sound 4 aren't defending Silent Killing. Again, 2 fodder special jounin who don't compare to Zabuza almost beat the sound 4. Zabuza is soloing high diff.

Also, the intel says that the Sound 4 only knows of their nature affinities and weapons, which doesn't include Silent Killing. They wouldn't even know what's going on as they don't know Zabuza is a master at Silent Killing



Exactly



So does Tayuya solo guys like Darui, Kitsuchi, Hiashi, Mei, Tsunade, Kimimaru, Chiyo, etc? Because according to your logic, there is no way of breaking out of this Genjutsu once u hear it. If you don't have a jutsu like the Shadow Possession, it's over.

This is clearly BS. As I can see in your picture of Shikamaru, he was still able to move his eyes and his jaw to open his mouth in fear of the genjutsu. This means Zabuza can move his jaw as well so he can bite off his tongue with his razor sharp teeth and break out of it. Again, he has the same skill in genjutsu as Shikamaru did.

Also, just for an example, Shadow Possession Jutsu takes all mobility away from the user, right? They can still move their jaw/mouth to talk. The genjutsu is the same way, u just can't move, but you can move whatever u can in the same spot, such as eyes, mouth, jaw, as shown by Shikamaru in the genjutsu

Having an open mouth in the genjutsu world =/= actually opening his mouth IRL.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I'm about to counter the genjutsu argument, but for your arguments:

1. "Earthquake" is a short distance move that tripped small genin...lol it won't do anything to Zabuza who won't be in such close distance and is way more stronger than the genin. PLus in the mist, Jiroubo won't know when to use it to hit Zabuza with it. It's a fodder, nameless move that is negligible.

2. So you're telling me Kidomaru is going to have all the time in the world to set detecting strings all around the forest to block Zabuza from coming at every single direction? Kidomaru would have to cover the ground and the trees, and he simply doesn't have the time to cover the whole area.

3. Zabuza is not falling for that trap. The trap caught Genin, it isn't catching a very skilled elite jounin. Zabuza more than likely will send in Water Clones first because he has shown to do this against multiple targets, and if anything gets caught, it would be the clones. Zabuza, knowing the clones got stuck will know Silent Killing won't work, according to your logic. So, he could just stomp them with his large scale Suiton. They are not defending against Giant Vortex Jutsu.

4. Not according to your logic, If Kidomaru put that sticky web trap on the ground around him, when Zabuza's Water Clone would get behind, his clone would be stuck, true, but that won't stop him from swinging his sword and still Silent Killing Kidomaru. Again, Zabuza stomped Special Jounin in a flashback in Part 1 and in Part 2, the Sound 4 aren't defending Silent Killing. Again, 2 fodder special jounin who don't compare to Zabuza almost beat the sound 4. Zabuza is soloing high diff.

Also, the intel says that the Sound 4 only knows of their nature affinities and weapons, which doesn't include Silent Killing. They wouldn't even know what's going on as they don't know Zabuza is a master at Silent Killing

1. Actually its a mid range move [

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] seeing from their distance here. Ranking the characters is irrelevant unless they are fodder themselves. But of course these "genin" together would whoop Zabuza. So once again, the counter is for the Mist, Zabuza will be on ground, and Zabuza will be in mid range to silent kill. Zabuza will trip from this "no name" jutsu until proven wrong.

2. He can start when Zabuza starts putting up the mist. Jirbo buys time. If you want to still nitpick this part, then simply lay webs on the ground works perfect too.

3. Brining up genin ranking, once again means nothing, as these are skilled shinobi that played a important role for part 1 series. Its as irreverent as a anbu skill ninja getting

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. Please avoid degrading characters to make excuses that Zabuza counters the jutsu.

4. You didn't even know the scnerio of how the battle went. We do know that they end up fighting with kunais and shriukens. Not once do use see the after match of their "main" jutsus on the field. So once again counter the arugment instead of using abc logic. The same ABC logic which was completely irrelevant to begin with.

5. So what, they are not dumb. They are not going to stand there and not do nothing, just because they can't see their opponent. They adapt like normal ninjas and attempt to counter.