Your belief in the supernatural.

[Brady]

We can't definitively say there is no supernatural. Just like we can't say for a fact that there is.

 

[Lightbringer]

We can't definitively say there is no supernatural. Just like we can't say for a fact that there is.

We can't say definitively it doesn't exist, true, but we can say with the evidence we have, it is very unlikely that the supernatural exists.

The other side can't say that it exists definitively nor provide evidence to it even being likely.

 

[Brady]

We can't say definitively it doesn't exist, true, but we can say with the evidence we have, it is very unlikely that the supernatural exists.

The other side can't say that it exists definitively nor provide evidence to it even being likely.

I can agree with that.

 

[Sagebee]

Well how do you know that what you saw was indeed what you saw? You must take into account that that's exactly how religion was developed, when people saw things they couldn't understand and said that it was actions of Gods.

That's exactly why evidence is necessary. And like I said, memory is a fickle thing. Most people can't remember their own mornings and you're trying to remember a one-time event. You may have saw something you weren't expecting and couldn't understand and when you think back on that moment, that memory is morphed into being a ghost or a demon or something; and hearing about the supernatural and searching on it morphs that memory even more so.

Humans can even induce memories that they haven't even experienced and claim them as being real.

Human memory is not a very reliable source.




But if people claim to see the supernatural, then obviously they're operating in a layer of reality we're able to observe; and even sill, we have means to detect all sorts of layers of our own reality.

Like I said, the universe is literally just information and no information is destroyed and everything in the universe leaves a piece of information behind. We can use that same information to theoretically see every single event since the dawn of time. We are able to go back to the beginning of the universe, yet not be able to find any trace of ghosts that are perceived by humans?




I don't see how dragons and unicorns are any more absurd than supernatural forces that we have the same amount of evidence to?

I'm not dismissing anything in its totality. I'm just giving you the facts. We have no evidence of the supernatural and we can mathematically explain the universe without God or the supernatural. So with that said, where does God and the supernatural fit in this equation?

What I'm saying is it's irrational to say that something that we have absolutely no evidence of is real. Asking whether or not it exists is good and all, but its pointless because you'll never get an answer until there is proof.

Until then, you're just doing a disservice to yourself by creating false-hopes.




God isn't an explanation. It's just a convenience.

If you recall, God was the first explanation to understand the world, until we found out that there are no people in the clouds. Then we found out that humans in fact evolved from apes and were not popped into existence or women formed from a man's ribs. We also found out that people possessed by demons turned out to be insane.

How many times have religions been debunked? Science is an ongoing process. Theories are expanded upon. But the difference between belief and science is that science has a foundation of observable evidence and belief does not.

We constantly gain more data and new theories are built upon this data and even re-written to an extent. But as it stands now, there is no data which remotely suggests that the supernatural exists in any capacity.




I already explained that I was religious and believed in the supernatural. I even defended it in NB before. That was back when I was ignorant of science and didn't bother to research because I already felt like I knew for a fact that the supernatural was real.





How does it not negate it if God already creates you with the knowledge of what you will do?

Free will entails that you can make a decision without any external forces, but humans make decisions based on external and internal factors all of the time.

Personal experiences aren't central to my belief in supernatural it's true as humans we can misinterpret experiences so perception isn't always reliable. I believe supernatural exists based on my paradigm of reality.

And I don't use god as a place holder for the unknown or unverifiable, if reality has a begining by definition it has a creator not necessarily just that time and space had a beginning and a free independent thing willed reality into existence. It's scientifically accepted this reality had a point of origin and if you want to account the multi verse which from my understanding hasn't been proved to exist yet would only potentially push back the universe's point of origin.

Also supernatural doesn't mean you can't interact or indirectly perceive the supernatural or even perceive the supernatural but that it's something that's not readily perceivable to people and when dealing things from a godly lens there's things that are meant not to be perceived and interacted with it's totality. Or things meant to be taken on faith that's the whole point of miracles, miracles are potentially proof for those who witness it and stories for those who weren't there.

Supernatural experiences might serve proof for some people but it's not a rational basis of belief because it can always be argued how can you trust what you saw. But in same time it's something to consider why so many people have these experiences are they all liars crazy delusional stupid etc... Or could reasonable people have these experiences and ask why and some of this stuff could be explained naturalistically but there are obvious things that go outside the natural realm.

In sciences it's okay to discuss things like is reality a simulation but there's a modern bias for materialism where anything that goes against a mechanical naturalistic view of reality is dismissed and anything in that no matter how fanciful is accepted like there are respected scientists who believe life was started by aliens and that's an acceptable rational view to have. But to have a world view outside naturalism is frowned upon and is treated illogical based on assumptions bias and preferences.

I never said your lying to yourself it's for you to consider and decide, you put the proposition to me I wanted you to know you could also be effected by bias and changing views doesn't mean your immune to bias and preference. I'm sure you believe what you believe is right and as you get older you'll only be hardened in that position. I think the most well meaning people are susceptible to bias the way you combat that is having discussions and willingness to allow yourself to be challenged and hear other people out.

By god knowing our choices doesn't mean he's forcing our hand it's true in life you deal with many external and internal influences and many of these influences are strong and compelling but we have a choice to listen to it or not. For example the influence of environment is pretty powerful but you have choice and ability not to follow your environmental influences. Or emotionals is a powerful influencer but you have the choice if it controls you a person can scream angrily to you you have a choice what to do even tho internally you want to scream back. As long as you have a healthy functioning brain you have free choice.

 

[Lightbringer]

Personal experiences aren't central to my belief in supernatural it's true as humans we can misinterpret experiences so perception isn't always reliable. I believe supernatural exists based on my paradigm of reality.

And I don't use god as a place holder for the unknown or unverifiable, if reality has a begining by definition it has a creator not necessarily just that time and space had a beginning and a free independent thing willed reality into existence. It's scientifically accepted this reality had a point of origin and if you want to account the multi verse which from my understanding hasn't been proved to exist yet would only potentially push back the universe's point of origin.

@Bold: I don't follow this point? You said that you don't use God as a placeholder, yet you say that because there is a beginning of the universe then there must be a creator. Like I said before, the beginning of the universe can be explained mathematically, no creator needed.

Multiversal theory is nothing more than a fantasy at this point. So I wouldn't take it into account.

Also supernatural doesn't mean you can't interact or indirectly perceive the supernatural or even perceive the supernatural but that it's something that's not readily perceivable to people and when dealing things from a godly lens there's things that are meant not to be perceived and interacted with it's totality. Or things meant to be taken on faith that's the whole point of miracles, miracles are potentially proof for those who witness it and stories for those who weren't there.

That just sounds like wishful thinking to me. You already have a mind-set where there must be miracles and the only reason science can't prove it is because we aren't meant to know.

You've already thought out the convenient excuses that challenge your beliefs. Even though people claim to see it through a human lens and are able to observe it, it can't be observed or traced by science because we are not ready to understand it? How would you know that? Where are you getting this information from?

Or it could all just be stories.

Supernatural experiences might serve proof for some people but it's not a rational basis of belief because it can always be argued how can you trust what you saw. But in same time it's something to consider why so many people have these experiences are they all liars crazy delusional stupid etc... Or could reasonable people have these experiences and ask why and some of this stuff could be explained naturalistically but there are obvious things that go outside the natural realm.

Well every single instance that has been examined thus far was debunked. How many times do you need something to be proved wrong until you accept it?

You're hoping that in one of these cases it might be true against all of the cases that weren't. It's not logical and yes it's just blind faith.

In sciences it's okay to discuss things like is reality a simulation but there's a modern bias for materialism where anything that goes against a mechanical naturalistic view of reality is dismissed and anything in that no matter how fanciful is accepted like there are respected scientists who believe life was started by aliens and that's an acceptable rational view to have. But to have a world view outside naturalism is frowned upon and is treated illogical based on assumptions bias and preferences.

I think you misunderstand some of those theories. The part of reality being a simulation is not the same as saying we're living in something like "The Matrix." Reality is information and we all process that information much like a simulation. If we create a virtual reality with the same amount of information, then it would be no less real than the reality we are used to.

That's just a rough explanation.

I never said your lying to yourself it's for you to consider and decide, you put the proposition to me I wanted you to know you could also be effected by bias and changing views doesn't mean your immune to bias and preference. I'm sure you believe what you believe is right and as you get older you'll only be hardened in that position. I think the most well meaning people are susceptible to bias the way you combat that is having discussions and willingness to allow yourself to be challenged and hear other people out.

By god knowing our choices doesn't mean he's forcing our hand it's true in life you deal with many external and internal influences and many of these influences are strong and compelling but we have a choice to listen to it or not. For example the influence of environment is pretty powerful but you have choice and ability not to follow your environmental influences. Or emotionals is a powerful influencer but you have the choice if it controls you a person can scream angrily to you you have a choice what to do even tho internally you want to scream back. As long as you have a healthy functioning brain you have free choice.

Well again, that's a paradox. It's not free will. If God created everything and is omniscient, then that by definition means he knew exactly what he was creating and how everything will act. He knows what will happen in the future when we do not. He knows what conversations we will have when we do not. He knows what the weather will be, he knows what the economy will be, so how exactly do we have free will if he already created us knowing what we will do?

So if you believe in the supernatural and say that it cannot be detected, then how do detect that you are not forced to your actions by a supreme being? How do you know that your decisions weren't already laid out?

I mean people can already manipulate other people without them knowing, but you're talking about an infinitely capable being. So how do you know that you actually have free will?

If a boulder is rolling toward you, would you not get out of the way? Sure you may say to yourself, well I made a choice because I could have just gotten squashed, but that is not likely is it? The decisions you make are factor based.

Much like how people's identities are formed by the environment they live in, your choices are also shaped by your environment.

If you were born to a different family in a different place, you would not be the same person and you would make different decisions because you did not experience the same experiences you did as you are now.

So how is that free will?

 

[Sagebee]

@Bold: I don't follow this point? You said that you don't use God as a placeholder, yet you say that because there is a beginning of the universe then there must be a creator. Like I said before, the beginning of the universe can be explained mathematically, no creator needed.

Multiversal theory is nothing more than a fantasy at this point. So I wouldn't take it into account.





That just sounds like wishful thinking to me. You already have a mind-set where there must be miracles and the only reason science can't prove it is because we aren't meant to know.

You've already thought out the convenient excuses that challenge your beliefs. Even though people claim to see it through a human lens and are able to observe it, it can't be observed or traced by science because we are not ready to understand it? How would you know that? Where are you getting this information from?

Or it could all just be stories.




Well every single instance that has been examined thus far was debunked. How many times do you need something to be proved wrong until you accept it?

You're hoping that in one of these cases it might be true against all of the cases that weren't. It's not logical and yes it's just blind faith.





I think you misunderstand some of those theories. The part of reality being a simulation is not the same as saying we're living in something like "The Matrix." Reality is information and we all process that information much like a simulation. If we create a virtual reality with the same amount of information, then it would be no less real than the reality we are used to.

That's just a rough explanation.




Well again, that's a paradox. It's not free will. If God created everything and is omniscient, then that by definition means he knew exactly what he was creating and how everything will act. He knows what will happen in the future when we do not. He knows what conversations we will have when we do not. He knows what the weather will be, he knows what the economy will be, so how exactly do we have free will if he already created us knowing what we will do?

So if you believe in the supernatural and say that it cannot be detected, then how do detect that you are not forced to your actions by a supreme being? How do you know that your decisions weren't already laid out?

I mean people can already manipulate other people without them knowing, but you're talking about an infinitely capable being. So how do you know that you actually have free will?

If a boulder is rolling toward you, would you not get out of the way? Sure you may say to yourself, well I made a choice because I could have just gotten squashed, but that is not likely is it? The decisions you make are factor based.

Much like how people's identities are formed by the environment they live in, your choices are also shaped by your environment.

If you were born to a different family in a different place, you would not be the same person and you would make different decisions because you did not experience the same experiences you did as you are now.

So how is that free will?

I stated if reality has a beginning by definition that means reality has a creator and whatever beginning of reality won't be beholden to time and other casual factors being some free independent entity to create. I'm not saying this entity or thing is god but has god attribute of being the creator and is a free agent.

Also I state my basis of reason for the supernatural is my basis of believing in God, there's things in the supernatural a person might experience but it's a matter meant to be taken by faith not reason.

Also if the concept of the supernatural was proven false you would be saying it's false, first of all you haven't looked into ever case of the supernatural so how are you saying all proven false. What you really mean is you've seen many cases of the supernatural proven to be false so your generalizing that all cases and instances must be the same. Do you not think your generalizing and assuming when you say this?

I don't really understand how god knowing my decisions would interfere with my decision making can you break it down for me.

The fundamental basis we have morality is due to free will that's why as humans we are accountable for our choices and animals arent. As humans we have the ability to be introspective and not be slave to our influences if humans we were only reactionary negative stimuli is more compelling to us but we have the ability to not act on it even tho it's easier and would feel good.

Even in sciences it's spoken as if the universe has a consciousness and purposefully created humans to understand it. I remember reading a couple years ago the universe growth patterns parallels the brain and internet.

It really comes down do you believe if you have the ability to make choices and are accountable to it.

 

[Lightbringer]

I stated if reality has a beginning by definition that means reality has a creator and whatever beginning of reality won't be beholden to time and other casual factors being some free independent entity to create. I'm not saying this entity or thing is god but has god attribute of being the creator and is a free agent.

Why would you assume such a thing? There are legitimate theories out there that can explain the creation of the universe through quantum physics. You're simplifying the creation of the universe to some entity. It's a lot more complicated than an intelligent being creating everything on a whim.

Something being created from nothing can be explained through quantum physics.

Also I state my basis of reason for the supernatural is my basis of believing in God, there's things in the supernatural a person might experience but it's a matter meant to be taken by faith not reason.

Faith is honestly just a friendlier way of saying baseless hope.

Also if the concept of the supernatural was proven false you would be saying it's false, first of all you haven't looked into ever case of the supernatural so how are you saying all proven false. What you really mean is you've seen many cases of the supernatural proven to be false so your generalizing that all cases and instances must be the same. Do you not think your generalizing and assuming when you say this?

I'm trying to be accurate with my wording. You're asking for evidence to disprove something that most likely doesn't exist and every time there is more and more evidence to suggest this, you ask for more and more evidence to disprove it. That is the conundrum. You'll never accept it no matter how much proof there is because we would need infinite proof to disprove the existence of an infinite being.

But with that said, no proof so far.

And since there is no proof so far and what you believe goes against all laws of physics and logic, then no it's not generalizing.

I don't really understand how god knowing my decisions would interfere with my decision making can you break it down for me.


The fundamental basis we have morality is due to free will that's why as humans we are accountable for our choices and animals arent. As humans we have the ability to be introspective and not be slave to our influences if humans we were only reactionary negative stimuli is more compelling to us but we have the ability to not act on it even tho it's easier and would feel good.

Even in sciences it's spoken as if the universe has a consciousness and purposefully created humans to understand it. I remember reading a couple years ago the universe growth patterns parallels the brain and internet.

It really comes down do you believe if you have the ability to make choices and are accountable to it.

I've never heard this theory. Science suggests that the universe is random.

I still don't follow your logic of free will. If you roll a ball down a hill, you know for a fact that it would go down. Did you give that ball a choice when you rolled it?

Same with God. If he created you and knew exactly how you would live your life, then how is he giving you a choice? He created you knowing that you would be poor, rich, saved, or damned in hell.

Our morals, our decisions, our temptations are based on factors of our reality. We grew up a certain way and lived a certain life which dictates the way we think and the choices we make. That is not free will.

Another reason why free will is impossible to prove is that you're saying you've made a "choice." Well you made a choice you can't unmake. If we go back in time, you'll make the same choice over and over and over and over again with no deviation. That is not free will.

Honestly, there's no point in arguing free will. It's just philosophical, not science.

 

[Sagebee]

Why would you assume such a thing? There are legitimate theories out there that can explain the creation of the universe through quantum physics. You're simplifying the creation of the universe to some entity. It's a lot more complicated than an intelligent being creating everything on a whim.

Something being created from nothing can be explained through quantum physics.



Faith is honestly just a friendlier way of saying baseless hope.



I'm trying to be accurate with my wording. You're asking for evidence to disprove something that most likely doesn't exist and every time there is more and more evidence to suggest this, you ask for more and more evidence to disprove it. That is the conundrum. You'll never accept it no matter how much proof there is because we would need infinite proof to disprove the existence of an infinite being.

But with that said, no proof so far.

And since there is no proof so far and what you believe goes against all laws of physics and logic, then no it's not generalizing.



I've never heard this theory. Science suggests that the universe is random.

I still don't follow your logic of free will. If you roll a ball down a hill, you know for a fact that it would go down. Did you give that ball a choice when you rolled it?

Same with God. If he created you and knew exactly how you would live your life, then how is he giving you a choice? He created you knowing that you would be poor, rich, saved, or damned in hell.

Our morals, our decisions, our temptations are based on factors of our reality. We grew up a certain way and lived a certain life which dictates the way we think and the choices we make. That is not free will.

Another reason why free will is impossible to prove is that you're saying you've made a "choice." Well you made a choice you can't unmake. If we go back in time, you'll make the same choice over and over and over and over again with no deviation. That is not free will.

Honestly, there's no point in arguing free will. It's just philosophical, not science.

Your misunderstanding a few of my points first off from my understanding the universe can only have two general beginnings one is it's always existed in some form or that it had a beginning. And this beginning is if the physical casual world we see around us making the universe or creation a finite dependant thing and this creator an eternal independent thing. What ever origin of reality you choose with a creator or not one something had to initiate everything to get to this point and that thing has to be eternal for us to exist.

When you say quantum mechaniacs explains something coming out if nothing, first off I don't believe in something coming out of nothing from nothing nothing comes. I think you referring to when people say in quantum mechanics when they say particles spontaneously coming out of no where and if so I don't think no where it's stated that particles spontaneously come out of no where. The particles are always there but not always perceived in the electron cloud.

Another of my points your misunderstanding is in my worldview there's things that need reason like belief in God while if you believe god is true you just need only faith to believe in supernatural, god being the rational basis of the belief in the supernatural. That doesn't mean you can't have other reasons to believe in supernatural like personal experiences.

Also things of faith aren't meant to be physically verifiable like the after life that doesn't mean it can't be rationally verifiable.

Also it's not a theory that humans are evolutionary created to perceive the universe but scientists at times speak and ponder on those terms.

To know someone's life choices isn't the same thing as choosing your life for you. God does test and guide people but even that is just placing stimuli we choose how to react to it and life is suppose to be set up so we succeed but people make it harder than it needs to be. And my personal view of god as long as your honest and do your best your good and short comings and missteps can be excused.

Also if people got a do over in life there would be people who would try to change things for the better part of doing better is knowing I'm sure your not making alk the same mistakes 5 or 10 years ago right?

Concepts like free will or creation even if there's rational basis since they're so metaphysically polarizing since it goes for and against core premises of ones reality it comes down to what you choose to believe. But either if you look at it personally or just conceptually to me anyways it's apparent we are free entities.

 

[Lightbringer]

Your misunderstanding a few of my points first off from my understanding the universe can only have two general beginnings one is it's always existed in some form or that it had a beginning. And this beginning is if the physical casual world we see around us making the universe or creation a finite dependant thing and this creator an eternal independent thing. What ever origin of reality you choose with a creator or not one something had to initiate everything to get to this point and that thing has to be eternal for us to exist.

When you say quantum mechaniacs explains something coming out if nothing, first off I don't believe in something coming out of nothing from nothing nothing comes. I think you referring to when people say in quantum mechanics when they say particles spontaneously coming out of no where and if so I don't think no where it's stated that particles spontaneously come out of no where. The particles are always there but not always perceived in the electron cloud.

Another of my points your misunderstanding is in my worldview there's things that need reason like belief in God while if you believe god is true you just need only faith to believe in supernatural, god being the rational basis of the belief in the supernatural. That doesn't mean you can't have other reasons to believe in supernatural like personal experiences.

Also things of faith aren't meant to be physically verifiable like the after life that doesn't mean it can't be rationally verifiable.

Also it's not a theory that humans are evolutionary created to perceive the universe but scientists at times speak and ponder on those terms.

To know someone's life choices isn't the same thing as choosing your life for you. God does test and guide people but even that is just placing stimuli we choose how to react to it and life is suppose to be set up so we succeed but people make it harder than it needs to be. And my personal view of god as long as your honest and do your best your good and short comings and missteps can be excused.

Also if people got a do over in life there would be people who would try to change things for the better part of doing better is knowing I'm sure your not making alk the same mistakes 5 or 10 years ago right?

Concepts like free will or creation even if there's rational basis since they're so metaphysically polarizing since it goes for and against core premises of ones reality it comes down to what you choose to believe. But either if you look at it personally or just conceptually to me anyways it's apparent we are free entities.

I'm kind of done debating at this point, but I'll make one last comment.

When I say if you go back in time that you'll make the same decisions, what I mean is that if you go back in time and were the same person you were at that time of the decision without any knowledge of post-decision making, no matter how many times you'll go into the past, you'll see yourself making that same decision.

That's because you've already made that decision. It's set in stone. If it weren't, then people could change time. You've only made one decision which means there was always one decision to make, the one you've already made.

 

[demon of the leaf]

The creation of the universe can be explained mathematically, without God a factor. Does God and the supernatural exist? Maybe? But there is no evidence to support the existence of either.

I'm a realist and I build on a foundation of what is tangible. God and the supernatural have no tangible evidence of their existence. Until there is some evidence of God or the supernatural that is able to be proven, I find it pointless to speculate on their existence since the only thing people base their belief in God or the supernatural is faith.

You also have to take into account that throughout all of human history, how many religions have existed? God or God(s) were always just a convenient way to explain the workings of a world which people at the time didn't understand.

Science is objective and if the existence of God or the supernatural was real, then science would take it into account. But as it stands now, no such evidence has been procured and all Gods of all religions have essentially been debunked. There is no Olympus, Valhalla, Xibalba, and the what is written in the Bible, Quran, and the Talmud is historically inaccurate and contradictory which raises questions about the validity of those texts.

Techinically if you think about it you talking about the creator of the universe so leaving no ecidence would be childs play in all honesty from acounts only a few people have ever witnessed god or claimed but all in all you can neither prove or disprove god it is a perpetule argument that goes no where

God could sway events that sway to the greater good with us totally unaware science isnt there tor prove or disprove god some of the greatest scientific contrubiters were religious einstein being a jew he made the theory of relitivity which in part paved the way for us to split the atom benjimin frankling contrubuted in the lightining rod to prevent lightining from burning down homes he was christain many other contubutions came from religious figures as well as many arctecture wonders you got math from an islamist whose name escapes me at the moment athests have contributed to the cause of science greatly

The point is science is the collective of human knowledge faith does not curtail it idiots do and their is a collective no matter what creed they follow is my point

 

[demon of the leaf]

I'm kind of done debating at this point, but I'll make one last comment.

When I say if you go back in time that you'll make the same decisions, what I mean is that if you go back in time and were the same person you were at that time of the decision without any knowledge of post-decision making, no matter how many times you'll go into the past, you'll see yourself making that same decision.

That's because you've already made that decision. It's set in stone. If it weren't, then people could change time. You've only made one decision which means there was always one decision to make, the one you've already made.

Actually if you changed that decision or even met yourself you would create a time paradox thus only one of you can exist and so ether you die from non existence or well that has never happened so you could never record it

 

[demon of the leaf]

Well i used to not believe in paranormal till it happened to me at a place i went to it was over at bachelors grove illinois vowed never to go back felt like something was following me and the sky turned dark and it was mid day clear wether not a cloud in the sky it was crazy lol

 

[Lightbringer]

Techinically if you think about it you talking about the creator of the universe so leaving no ecidence would be childs play in all honesty from acounts only a few people have ever witnessed god or claimed but all in all you can neither prove or disprove god it is a perpetule argument that goes no where

God could sway events that sway to the greater good with us totally unaware science isnt there tor prove or disprove god some of the greatest scientific contrubiters were religious einstein being a jew he made the theory of relitivity which in part paved the way for us to split the atom benjimin frankling contrubuted in the lightining rod to prevent lightining from burning down homes he was christain many other contubutions came from religious figures as well as many arctecture wonders you got math from an islamist whose name escapes me at the moment athests have contributed to the cause of science greatly

The point is science is the collective of human knowledge faith does not curtail it idiots do and their is a collective no matter what creed they follow is my point

Einstein wasn't religious. Him having a Jewish heritage does not mean he practiced the Jewish faith.

Not sure what you're point is with all of this?

Like I said in my earlier comments, I'm just stating fact. No, I'm not dismissing anything in its totality, but as it stands here and now, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest the existence of the supernatural. There is more evidence that suggests otherwise at this time.

Your debating ifs and buts, which like you said goes no where and is wholeheartedly unproductive and unscientific. I'm not gonna repeat myself or get into another debate about this, so read my comments on the thread.

Actually if you changed that decision or even met yourself you would create a time paradox thus only one of you can exist and so ether you die from non existence or well that has never happened so you could never record it

Reread my comment. I never said meet yourself. I said if you go back in time and be the same person you were at the moment of that decision. So no knowledge of future events, just the same knowledge in the same body of the same person who were when you made that decision.

Well i used to not believe in paranormal till it happened to me at a place i went to it was over at bachelors grove illinois vowed never to go back felt like something was following me and the sky turned dark and it was mid day clear wether not a cloud in the sky it was crazy lol

Questions:

1. What time was it?

2. When did this happen?

3. Did anyone else witness it? Surely if the sky got dark all of a sudden, other people near the area should have witnessed it as well.

 

[demon of the leaf]

Questions:

1. What time was it?

2. When did this happen?

3. Did anyone else witness it? Surely if the sky got dark all of a sudden, other people near the area should have witnessed it as well.

As i said it was mid day as in 12:00 pm sun way up in the sky

I would say it was 4 to 5 years ago cant give an exact date

I was with two other people and we were fine going in but when were leaving thats when all that happened we both picked up the pace and we looked at each other i asked if they felt like we were being followed we drove out of there pretty quickly

 

[JStar King]

So basically the point is to piss on people for their beliefs?

:wut: