Your belief in the supernatural.

[Sagebee]

The creation of the universe can be explained mathematically, without God a factor. Does God and the supernatural exist? Maybe? But there is no evidence to support the existence of either.

I'm a realist and I build on a foundation of what is tangible. God and the supernatural have no tangible evidence of their existence. Until there is some evidence of God or the supernatural that is able to be proven, I find it pointless to speculate on their existence since the only thing people base their belief in God or the supernatural is faith.

You also have to take into account that throughout all of human history, how many religions have existed? God or God(s) were always just a convenient way to explain the workings of a world which people at the time didn't understand.

Science is objective and if the existence of God or the supernatural was real, then science would take it into account. But as it stands now, no such evidence has been procured and all Gods of all religions have essentially been debunked. There is no Olympus, Valhalla, Xibalba, and the what is written in the Bible, Quran, and the Talmud is historically inaccurate and contradictory which raises questions about the validity of those texts.

Based on beliefs and understanding of reality my rationale why I believe the supernatural exists is because I believe GOD exists.

And I believe god exists for many reasons but something anyone can readily appreciate and ponder is if reality is finite and dependant then reality comes from something that's eternal and independant. And there's good reason to believe that reality is created because based on the reality that's readily perceivable we see it's a casual reality.

And second thing is does free will truly exist and if so can free will exist in a determinist reality.

You don't have to agree with these points but understand it opens the door for a god to rationale exist and in turn give more credence for concept of supernatural to exist. I personally think what people gravitate towards is based on their internal paradigm life if internally you view live life from materialist lens then that's how you'll see the world and vice versa if you see life from a spiritual lens.

Even tho most people believe in God and supernatural without a rationale reason and their belief is usually based on some internal or external perception doesn't mean there isn't a rationale reason to believe.

Due to our ignorance and sometimes arrogance as people we make the assumption that were getting the full perspective of reality and think we seen what's there to see and heard what's there to hear.

Sometimes you have to ask if were working off a complete lens of reality and given things full consideration. On questions like does god exist it should be asked how can we potentially perceive if a god exists.

Me personally I've spent years deeply considering these questions most people either come to their conclusions based how they superficially perceive life or just let others spoonfeed what to believe and why. The point I'm making most people don't give these questions real consideration or even know how to go about potentially answering these questions so fundamentally pretty much all people basis of whatever belief or disbelief is based on assumptions and for many just an issue of preference.

And something else that needs to be understood is in sciences it's not purely about finding answers but creating explanations and much of the core assumptions in the sciences is rooted in creating a model of reality thats always existed and doesnt need a god to explain it. Also other thing is just because we see so much that's wrong doesn't mean it's right and also need to see how our own bias and preferences may cause us not to acknowledge things. Some assume to believe in God or supernatural is based on their bias and preference and that might be true of some but you need to understand how your beliefs can be rooted in the same thing.

 

[Lyke]

The creation of the universe can be explained mathematically, without God a factor. Does God and the supernatural exist? Maybe? But there is no evidence to support the existence of either.

I'm a realist and I build on a foundation of what is tangible. God and the supernatural have no tangible evidence of their existence. Until there is some evidence of God or the supernatural that is able to be proven, I find it pointless to speculate on their existence since the only thing people base their belief in God or the supernatural is faith.

You also have to take into account that throughout all of human history, how many religions have existed? God or God(s) were always just a convenient way to explain the workings of a world which people at the time didn't understand.

Science is objective and if the existence of God or the supernatural was real, then science would take it into account. But as it stands now, no such evidence has been procured and all Gods of all religions have essentially been debunked. There is no Olympus, Valhalla, Xibalba, and the what is written in the Bible, Quran, and the Talmud is historically inaccurate and contradictory which raises questions about the validity of those texts.

Based on beliefs and understanding of reality my rationale why I believe the supernatural exists is because I believe GOD exists.

And I believe god exists for many reasons but something anyone can readily appreciate and ponder is if reality is finite and dependant then reality comes from something that's eternal and independant. And there's good reason to believe that reality is created because based on the reality that's readily perceivable we see it's a casual reality.

And second thing is does free will truly exist and if so can free will exist in a determinist reality.

You don't have to agree with these points but understand it opens the door for a god to rationale exist and in turn give more credence for concept of supernatural to exist. I personally think what people gravitate towards is based on their internal paradigm life if internally you view live life from materialist lens then that's how you'll see the world and vice versa if you see life from a spiritual lens.

Even tho most people believe in God and supernatural without a rationale reason and their belief is usually based on some internal or external perception doesn't mean there isn't a rationale reason to believe.

Due to our ignorance and sometimes arrogance as people we make the assumption that were getting the full perspective of reality and think we seen what's there to see and heard what's there to hear.

Sometimes you have to ask if were working off a complete lens of reality and given things full consideration. On questions like does god exist it should be asked how can we potentially perceive if a god exists.

Me personally I've spent years deeply considering these questions most people either come to their conclusions based how they superficially perceive life or just let others spoonfeed what to believe and why. The point I'm making most people don't give these questions real consideration or even know how to go about potentially answering these questions so fundamentally pretty much all people basis of whatever belief or disbelief is based on assumptions and for many just an issue of preference.

And something else that needs to be understood is in sciences it's not purely about finding answers but creating explanations and much of the core assumptions in the sciences is rooted in creating a model of reality thats always existed and doesnt need a god to explain it. Also other thing is just because we see so much that's wrong doesn't mean it's right and also need to see how our own bias and preferences may cause us not to acknowledge things. Some assume to believe in God or supernatural is based on their bias and preference and that might be true of some but you need to understand how your beliefs can be rooted in the same thing.

Well its called belief after all lol

 

[Floydical]

Most people refuse to believe something until they actually experience it themselves. However if a million people, of respectable character and status, tell you something is real based on their own experience, do you believe it?

Even if that number is a thousand, shouldn't you put some stock in what others say they've experienced rather than wait for an experience yourself? I personally believe in ghosts and spirits because enough people of respectable character and status have contributed experiences that make the phenomenon believable.

Its the same with alien abductions. Do you refuse to believe in alien abductions until you are abducted yourself? No, you should believe the phenomenon simply based on the fact that thousands of reputable people have reported and recounted in detail the very real nature of the phenomenon itself.

 

[Lightbringer]

Most people refuse to believe something until they actually experience it themselves. However if a million people, of respectable character and status, tell you something is real based on their own experience, do you believe it?

Even if that number is a thousand, shouldn't you put some stock in what others say they've experienced rather than wait for an experience yourself? I personally believe in ghosts and spirits because enough people of respectable character and status have contributed experiences that make the phenomenon believable.

Its the same with alien abductions. Do you refuse to believe in alien abductions until you are abducted yourself? No, you should believe the phenomenon simply based on the fact that thousands of reputable people have reported and recounted in detail the very real nature of the phenomenon itself.

What if all of those stories were vastly different and inconsistent from person to person?

Would you believe any story without evidence, as long as there's at least a thousand people that say the same?

So if a million people say the Earth is flat or say that evolution isn't real, you'd put stock in it?

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

What if all of those stories were vastly different and inconsistent from person to person?

Would you believe any story without evidence, as long as there's at least a thousand people that say the same?

So if a million people say the Earth is flat or say that evolution isn't real, you'd put stock in it?

True, personal accounts should not be taken seriously, people believe because they want it and make them to feel good, there is not another good argument.

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

Well its called belief after all lol

Belief is just an word.

 

[Donald J Trump]

Of course, I believe in myself.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

fo sho, without a doubt...

some things are hard for people to prove i think because we're not suppose to understand it yet as a species, we should be trying to understand whats evident to us, which is why its evident

its silly though to me when people say it doesnt exist. how can you say that with such certainty? unless youre some all knowing being. i dont think everyone is meant to experience it though like a lot of things in life...but just because you havent doesnt mean it doesnt. just makes you just sound like a know it all imo

---

also using scientific theory to explain things like this is for the illiterate

su·per·nat·u·ral
ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/Submit
adjective
1.
(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

 

[Sagebee]

What if all of those stories were vastly different and inconsistent from person to person?

Would you believe any story without evidence, as long as there's at least a thousand people that say the same?

So if a million people say the Earth is flat or say that evolution isn't real, you'd put stock in it?

I don't think he's arguing that all testimonies should be considered true but should be given consideration especially based on numbers and their being a vast spectrum of people who say they have some sort of supernatural experience

It's shouldn't be taken to be true just based on personal experience but in the same time it shouldn't be dismissed

 

[Floydical]

What if all of those stories were vastly different and inconsistent from person to person?

Would you believe any story without evidence, as long as there's at least a thousand people that say the same?

So if a million people say the Earth is flat or say that evolution isn't real, you'd put stock in it?

True, personal accounts should not be taken seriously, people believe because they want it and make them to feel good, there is not another good argument.

Obviously, you can't trust everyone's testimony and thats the reason I specified witnesses of respectable character and status. Sure some are plain made up or hallucinated. What you need to focus on is the testimony of doctors, physicians, community leaders, just plain hard working Americans and the like. You'll realize, as many researchers have, that there are plenty of reputable witnesses that either describe similar experiences or identacle situations. Add enough of this testimony up and its as good as physical evidence if you ask me.

The whole issue is much more complex than someone claiming the world is flat or asking me if I'd jump off a bridge just because my boss told me to. Don't reduce to the discussion to such narrow mindedness.

 

[Floydical]

The creation of the universe can be explained mathematically, without God a factor. Does God and the supernatural exist? Maybe? But there is no evidence to support the existence of either.

I'm a realist and I build on a foundation of what is tangible. God and the supernatural have no tangible evidence of their existence. Until there is some evidence of God or the supernatural that is able to be proven, I find it pointless to speculate on their existence since the only thing people base their belief in God or the supernatural is faith.

You also have to take into account that throughout all of human history, how many religions have existed? God or God(s) were always just a convenient way to explain the workings of a world which people at the time didn't understand.

Science is objective and if the existence of God or the supernatural was real, then science would take it into account. But as it stands now, no such evidence has been procured and all Gods of all religions have essentially been debunked. There is no Olympus, Valhalla, Xibalba, and the what is written in the Bible, Quran, and the Talmud is historically inaccurate and contradictory which raises questions about the validity of those texts.

You shouldn't limit your belief to physical evidence alone, if you do you'd never give things the credit they deserve. Good luck getting physical evidence of spirits. Point is, as I've tried to explain already, that enough consistent experiences add up to reputable evidence. If three families are forced to sell the same house because they have all had supernatural experiences in it, is that enough for you to consider believing them? Would it change your mind if one of these families was close to you? Again, try not to be so narrow minded.

 

[Lightbringer]

I don't think he's arguing that all testimonies should be considered true but should be given consideration especially based on numbers and their being a vast spectrum of people who say they have some sort of supernatural experience

It's shouldn't be taken to be true just based on personal experience but in the same time it shouldn't be dismissed

Why shouldn't they be dismissed? If all of these claims of having experienced the supernatural were in true in some capacity, then we'd have evidence of it. Yet in every single case where that was examined, the idea has been wholly debunked.

You shouldn't limit your belief to physical evidence alone, if you do you'd never give things the credit they deserve. Good luck getting physical evidence of spirits. Point is, as I've tried to explain already, that enough consistent experiences add up to reputable evidence. If three families are forced to sell the same house because they have all had supernatural experiences in it, is that enough for you to consider believing them? Would it change your mind if one of these families was close to you? Again, try not to be so narrow minded.

So if there's no evidence of the supernatural, then why believe in something that has no logical basis to believe in? If all of these supernatural events occur, why it is so convenient that it never happened to a scientist?

People used to believe that dragons existed wholeheartedly and we see the mythology of dragons stretched from Scandinavia, to Southern Europe, to Asia in eras where they couldn't possibly have contact with one another. So does that mean Dragons must have existed because all of these different cultures had legends about them even though there's no evidence?

No, it wouldn't change my mind. I used to be deeply religious and if you go back a few years, you'll see I argued in favor of religion on NB. I had no evidence to my own beliefs; it was nothing but baseless faith. Until I started delving into science more, I realized how impossible my beliefs were.

Also I do have a close family member who's also deeply religious and likes to claim that he can see my aura. I don't doubt that he believes what he says, but I also believe that he's lying to himself and cannot come to terms with it.

Again, there have been countless people who claimed to have seen the supernatural, some way to interact with them, etc. Yet not once, not ever have any of these claims been remotely true.

You talk about patterns, well if every person's story that was examined so far has been debunked, the pattern would likely be that they're all false.

 

[Sagebee]

Why shouldn't they be dismissed? If all of these claims of having experienced the supernatural were in true in some capacity, then we'd have evidence of it. Yet in every single case where that was examined, the idea has been wholly debunked.





So if there's no evidence of the supernatural, then why believe in something that has no logical basis to believe in? If all of these supernatural events occur, why it is so convenient that it never happened to a scientist?

People used to believe that dragons existed wholeheartedly and we see the mythology of dragons stretched from Scandinavia, to Southern Europe, to Asia in eras where they couldn't possibly have contact with one another. So does that mean Dragons must have existed because all of these different cultures had legends about them even though there's no evidence?

No, it wouldn't change my mind. I used to be deeply religious and if you go back a few years, you'll see I argued in favor of religion on NB. I had no evidence to my own beliefs; it was nothing but baseless faith. Until I started delving into science more, I realized how impossible my beliefs were.

Also I do have a close family member who's also deeply religious and likes to claim that he can see my aura. I don't doubt that he believes what he says, but I also believe that he's lying to himself and cannot come to terms with it.

Again, there have been countless people who claimed to have seen the supernatural, some way to interact with them, etc. Yet not once, not ever have any of these claims been remotely true.

You talk about patterns, well if every person's story that was examined so far has been debunked, the pattern would likely be that they're all false.

Well if you choose to dismiss it then your just assuming it's false, we shouldn't just believe something but have reason to believe it and see if it's rationally possible.

With every case that's a hoax or looked into and found out it's something else there's also legitamate mysteries out their aswell.

There are people that really want aliens to exist and say they've been abducted since we find some of these cases are false do we generally say that aliens as a concept is improbable.

Supernatural is just anything as humans that is outside of our perceivable reality. In the past there's many things the past got wrong but there's many things the past knew that we are barely knowing like the concept of planets and orbits. Even with things that we know are false doesn't mean they don't have an element or basis of truth in it.

Also I gave you my personal rational why I think the supernatural exists and I state I believe the supernatural exist because I believe god exists. And I believe god exists based on the perceivable reality see it's finite dependant showing this reality had a origin. And if you believe free will exists that's another sign post to god because why would free will exist in a determinist reality unless our origin is from something that has free will aswell.

 

[Floydical]

Why shouldn't they be dismissed? If all of these claims of having experienced the supernatural were in true in some capacity, then we'd have evidence of it. Yet in every single case where that was examined, the idea has been wholly debunked.





So if there's no evidence of the supernatural, then why believe in something that has no logical basis to believe in? If all of these supernatural events occur, why it is so convenient that it never happened to a scientist?

People used to believe that dragons existed wholeheartedly and we see the mythology of dragons stretched from Scandinavia, to Southern Europe, to Asia in eras where they couldn't possibly have contact with one another. So does that mean Dragons must have existed because all of these different cultures had legends about them even though there's no evidence?

No, it wouldn't change my mind. I used to be deeply religious and if you go back a few years, you'll see I argued in favor of religion on NB. I had no evidence to my own beliefs; it was nothing but baseless faith. Until I started delving into science more, I realized how impossible my beliefs were.

Also I do have a close family member who's also deeply religious and likes to claim that he can see my aura. I don't doubt that he believes what he says, but I also believe that he's lying to himself and cannot come to terms with it.

Again, there have been countless people who claimed to have seen the supernatural, some way to interact with them, etc. Yet not once, not ever have any of these claims been remotely true.

You talk about patterns, well if every person's story that was examined so far has been debunked, the pattern would likely be that they're all false.

This is where our logic diverges. You believe ther is no logical reason to believe in spirits? It's logical because countless people have had those experiences and many locations are hotspots for supernatural occurances. That is plenty for me to deem it a logical belief. It's extremely naive for you to think no scientist has ever had a paranormal experience. Either you simply didn't hear about it or they go unreported for fear of ridecule.

Faith is a different category but let me tell you that belief in science can explain certain phenomena you once deemed faith based. A dragon could be the term placed on something not in a persons existing vocabulary. A flying object that emits fire; are we actually talking about a dragon or was it a flying craft of advanced technology? The book chariots of the gods describes possible explanations for many faith based stories and phenomena.

 

[Lightbringer]

Well if you choose to dismiss it then your just assuming it's false, we shouldn't just believe something but have reason to believe it and see if it's rationally possible.

With every case that's a hoax or looked into and found out it's something else there's also legitamate mysteries out their aswell.

There are people that really want aliens to exist and say they've been abducted since we find some of these cases are false do we generally say that aliens as a concept is improbable.

Supernatural is just anything as humans that is outside of our perceivable reality. In the past there's many things the past got wrong but there's many things the past new that we are,barely knowing like the concept of planets and orbits. Even with things that we know are false doesn't mean they don't have an element or basis of truth in it.

Also I gave you my personal rational why I think the supernatural exists and I state I believe the supernatural exist because I believe god exists. And I believe god exists based on the perceivable reality see it's finite dependant showing this reality had a origin. And if you believe free will exists that's another sign post to god because why would free will exist in a determinist reality unless our origin is from something that has free will aswell.

Is it rational to believe something that has no evidence and consistently been disproved so far? Let me ask you this, do you really believe the supernatural exists or do you just want it to exist?

The difference between the supernatural and aliens is that life already exists in the universe, that being Earth. We've already discovered other worlds in the galaxy that are presumably able to support life. There are over a hundred billion galaxies and if life already exists in one solar system and there are other solar systems with planets that are able to support life, then chances are there are extra-terrestrial life forms elsewhere.

Now whether aliens have the technology to traverse solar systems is a completely different argument which I personally don't believe in.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, wouldn't free will be a paradox? If he created life in the universe, then he would already know the outcome of everything.

How do humans have free will if the reality is determinist? Do humans make decisions free from all external factors?

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

Why shouldn't they be dismissed? If all of these claims of having experienced the supernatural were in true in some capacity, then we'd have evidence of it. Yet in every single case where that was examined, the idea has been wholly debunked.





So if there's no evidence of the supernatural, then why believe in something that has no logical basis to believe in? If all of these supernatural events occur, why it is so convenient that it never happened to a scientist?

People used to believe that dragons existed wholeheartedly and we see the mythology of dragons stretched from Scandinavia, to Southern Europe, to Asia in eras where they couldn't possibly have contact with one another. So does that mean Dragons must have existed because all of these different cultures had legends about them even though there's no evidence?

No, it wouldn't change my mind. I used to be deeply religious and if you go back a few years, you'll see I argued in favor of religion on NB. I had no evidence to my own beliefs; it was nothing but baseless faith. Until I started delving into science more, I realized how impossible my beliefs were.

Also I do have a close family member who's also deeply religious and likes to claim that he can see my aura. I don't doubt that he believes what he says, but I also believe that he's lying to himself and cannot come to terms with it.

Again, there have been countless people who claimed to have seen the supernatural, some way to interact with them, etc. Yet not once, not ever have any of these claims been remotely true.

You talk about patterns, well if every person's story that was examined so far has been debunked, the pattern would likely be that they're all false.

Yo dude, that kind of people are paranoid and schizophrenic, they have a deep problem. There are other people who know the truth but do not want to accept it because they are afraid to live in a world without God and purpose.
People are weak and immature, so they are not very rational when it comes to their beliefs.

 

[Lightbringer]

This is where our logic diverges. You believe ther is no logical reason to believe in spirits? It's logical because countless people have had those experiences and many locations are hotspots for supernatural occurances. That is plenty for me to deem it a logical belief. It's extremely naive for you to think no scientist has ever had a paranormal experience. Either you simply didn't hear about it or they go unreported for fear of ridecule.

Faith is a different category but let me tell you that belief in science can explain certain phenomena you once deemed faith based. A dragon could be the term placed on something not in a persons existing vocabulary. A flying object that emits fire; are we actually talking about a dragon or was it a flying craft of advanced technology? The book chariots of the gods describes possible explanations for many faith based stories and phenomena.

So how is it logical? You're just believing hearsay. It's no different than believing in a flat earth, Nordic Gods, elves, goblins, etc. You're saying it's not illogical only because you believe in it and you're only justification is that other people claim to have witnessed it. Do you not see the bias?

Also if spirits have been around since the dawn of humans, and if they were able to be perceived by humans and exist in our reality to be seen, then there would be some way to detect them. The universe and what we see is nothing but information and no information is permanently destroyed. If these spirits existed and were seen by humans, then they would leave a trace of that information. We are able to trace back to the very beginning of the universe and you're telling me that we cannot detect spirits even though people can see them with their own eyes? It's a ridiculous notion.

And if these "hotspots" exist, why is there no scientific evidence of the supernatural? Do you realize how big of a discovery it would be? I've already mentioned that scientific organizations are willing to pay millions for proof.

There are written texts and drawings of the dragons I'm referring to, yet no evidence of their existence.

 

[Sagebee]

Is it rational to believe something that has no evidence and consistently been disproved so far? Let me ask you this, do you really believe the supernatural exists or do you just want it to exist?

The difference between the supernatural and aliens is that life already exists in the universe, that being Earth. We've already discovered other worlds in the galaxy that are presumably able to support life. There are over a hundred billion galaxies and if life already exists in one solar system and there are other solar systems with planets that are able to support life, then chances are there are extra-terrestrial life forms elsewhere.

Now whether aliens have the technology to traverse solar systems is a completely different argument which I personally don't believe in.

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, wouldn't free will be a paradox? If he created life in the universe, then he would already know the outcome of everything.

How do you humans have free will if the reality is determinist? Do humans make decisions free from all external factors?

Well I gave my rational on why I think the supernatural exists an aspect is also based on personal experiences and doing research on supernatural occurrences around the world, I personally try to live my life based on what's true and not on what I prefer and I do that by giving myself the opportunity to be found wrong and hearing others out.

As people we accept there are many layors to reality like spectrum of sight not all available to us, multuverse etc... So we acknowledge that there are things in reality that aren't humanely perceivable to us so why does the concept of the supernatural find unfathomable.

And what people do like you did in an earlier post to dismiss the concept of the supernatural in its totality group it with things that are obviously false like dragons and unicorns and say as a concept it's equally absurd. Even with th concept of god when they group it with idolatry where people would give things divinity and worship it to even today and treat the concept of god in a loose sense and based on that dismiss it.

As for aliens i think if were honest there's an element of people that want to believe it because it's an interesting concept to think there's other life out there and that possibility takes up our imaginations. In same time reason we find aliens as a concept more reasonable is just statistically based on the vastness of the universe we assume life must exist out there.

As a concept the supernatural can exists the issue is when there's fanaticism it causes the truth to be blurred and cause people to judge with a wide brush. And a part of this comes ideological some people don't want to believe there's anything more than this reality and adopt a materialistic world view of what you see is what you get so you have to see there's a bias for materialism that exists. And you can see it deep rooted in sciences when they make the assumption that an atom can't be created or destroyed or that the universe existed forever. Before the big bang theory the general assumption in the scientific field was that the universe stretched out till infinite. And that's because concepts with creation and free will you open the door to concepts like god and the supernatural.

It could very well be that I believe what I do because I want to and it's also possible for the same for you. I'm not a person who believes in blind faith I think you need reason for what you believe and not just feelings and intuition.

As for your free will question I believe reality around us is determined but us as humans we have the ability to choose our course and god knowing what will happen or our choices doesn't negate that we have free will. I believe we all have our own separate identities and with free will there's choice and theres accountability that comes with those choices.

 

[Sagebee]

So how is it logical? You're just believing hearsay. It's no different than believing in a flat earth, Nordic Gods, elves, goblins, etc. You're saying it's not illogical only because you believe in it and you're only justification is that other people claim to have witnessed it. Do you not see the bias?

Also if spirits have been around since the dawn of humans, and if they were able to be perceived by humans and exist in our reality to be seen, then there would be some way to detect them. The universe and what we see is nothing but information and no information is permanently destroyed. If these spirits existed and were seen by humans, then they would leave a trace of that information. We are able to trace back to the very beginning of the universe and you're telling me that we cannot detect spirits even though people can see them with their own eyes? It's a ridiculous notion.

And if these "hotspots" exist, why is there no scientific evidence of the supernatural? Do you realize how big of a discovery it would be? I've already mentioned that scientific organizations are willing to pay millions for proof.

There are written texts and drawings of the dragons I'm referring to, yet no evidence of their existence.

I think a fair position to have is to have an expectation for a reason to believe but what needs to be understood is the basis of proof things like supernatural your not going to get physical verifiable proof if somones story is true or accurate. My basis of truth is my paradigm of reality either you have a materialistic paradigm of reality where reality has to exist forever and theres no free will governing reality allowing for "spooky" events. I rationally believe it based on my paradigm of reality that it's a divine one where there's a beginning and theres free will and based on that i believe as humans we can interact with things on occassion that are outside of our perceivable reality.

 

[Lightbringer]

Well I gave my rational on why I think the supernatural exists an aspect is also based on personal experiences and doing research on supernatural occurrences around the world, I personally try to live my life based on what's true and not on what I prefer and I do that by giving myself the opportunity to be found wrong and hearing others out.

Well how do you know that what you saw was indeed what you saw? You must take into account that that's exactly how religion was developed, when people saw things they couldn't understand and said that it was actions of Gods.

That's exactly why evidence is necessary. And like I said, memory is a fickle thing. Most people can't remember their own mornings and you're trying to remember a one-time event. You may have saw something you weren't expecting and couldn't understand and when you think back on that moment, that memory is morphed into being a ghost or a demon or something; and hearing about the supernatural and searching on it morphs that memory even more so.

Humans can even induce memories that they haven't even experienced and claim them as being real.

Human memory is not a very reliable source.

As people we accept there are many layors to reality like spectrum of sight not all available to us, multuverse etc... So we acknowledge that there are things in reality that aren't humanely perceivable to us so why does the concept of the supernatural find unfathomable.

But if people claim to see the supernatural, then obviously they're operating in a layer of reality we're able to observe; and even sill, we have means to detect all sorts of layers of our own reality.

Like I said, the universe is literally just information and no information is destroyed and everything in the universe leaves a piece of information behind. We can use that same information to theoretically see every single event since the dawn of time. We are able to go back to the beginning of the universe, yet not be able to find any trace of ghosts that are perceived by humans?

And what people do like you did in an earlier post to dismiss the concept of the supernatural in its totality group it with things that are obviously false like dragons and unicorns and say as a concept it's equally absurd. Even with th concept of god when they group it with idolatry where people would give things divinity and worship it to even today and treat the concept of god in a loose sense and based on that dismiss it.

I don't see how dragons and unicorns are any more absurd than supernatural forces that we have the same amount of evidence to?

I'm not dismissing anything in its totality. I'm just giving you the facts. We have no evidence of the supernatural and we can mathematically explain the universe without God or the supernatural. So with that said, where does God and the supernatural fit in this equation?

What I'm saying is it's irrational to say that something that we have absolutely no evidence of is real. Asking whether or not it exists is good and all, but its pointless because you'll never get an answer until there is proof.

Until then, you're just doing a disservice to yourself by creating false-hopes.

As for aliens i think if were honest there's an element of people that want to believe it because it's an interesting concept to think there's other life out there and that possibility takes up our imaginations. In same time reason we find aliens as a concept more reasonable is just statistically based on the vastness of the universe we assume life must exist out there.

As a concept the supernatural can exists the issue is when there's fanaticism it causes the truth to be blurred and cause people to judge with a wide brush. And a part of this comes ideological some people don't want to believe there's anything more than this reality and adopt a materialistic world view of what you see is what you get so you have to see there's a bias for materialism that exists. And you can see it deep rooted in sciences when they make the assumption that an atom can't be created or destroyed or that the universe existed forever. Before the big bang theory the general assumption in the scientific field was that the universe stretched out till infinite. And that's because concepts with creation and free will you open the door to concepts like god and the supernatural.

God isn't an explanation. It's just a convenience.

If you recall, God was the first explanation to understand the world, until we found out that there are no people in the clouds. Then we found out that humans in fact evolved from apes and were not popped into existence or women formed from a man's ribs. We also found out that people possessed by demons turned out to be insane.

How many times have religions been debunked? Science is an ongoing process. Theories are expanded upon. But the difference between belief and science is that science has a foundation of observable evidence and belief does not.

We constantly gain more data and new theories are built upon this data and even re-written to an extent. But as it stands now, there is no data which remotely suggests that the supernatural exists in any capacity.

It could very well be that I believe what I do because I want to and it's also possible for the same for you. I'm not a person who believes in blind faith I think you need reason for what you believe and not just feelings and intuition.

I already explained that I was religious and believed in the supernatural. I even defended it in NB before. That was back when I was ignorant of science and didn't bother to research because I already felt like I knew for a fact that the supernatural was real.

As for your free will question I believe reality around us is determined but us as humans we have the ability to choose our course and god knowing what will happen or our choices doesn't negate that we have free will. I believe we all have our own separate identities and with free will there's choice and theres accountability that comes with those choices.

How does it not negate it if God already creates you with the knowledge of what you will do?

Free will entails that you can make a decision without any external forces, but humans make decisions based on external and internal factors all of the time.