You have no right to call Kishi a troll for Obito being Tobi.

[pvasy]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

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Now that Tobi has been revealed to be Obito or just involving obito’s body many people are going to excuse Kishi of being a "troll". In this thread I am going to go over all the things that proves Kishi is not a troll and cover all the things that make you believe he is a troll.


Ok so this is a thread about almost everything to do with Tobi so far in the manga, so as you can guess this is going to be very very long. But do not fear you don’t have to read everything, I have split the thread into sections so you can just skip to the part that you are interested in or that you have had a problem with which would make you believe Kishi is a troll.


I assure you, you cannot read all of this thread. Each section is like a thread in its self which would mean this is like 8 threads in 1.

Read the title of the sections in this thread below and go to the section you are interested in reading or a section which is a reason why you believed Kishi to be a troll.

This is the last thread about all this Tobi is Obito business that I am ever going to do as I do not want to spam Base with many threads about all the issues and craziness involving Tobi being Obito. So here it is my last thread about this topic :’) the topic which was the reason I joined Base in the first place.

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Contents Section

Here is the contents section of my thread, skip to section you want to read you or a section why you believed Kishi to be a troll
(I repeat you cannot read all the sections in this thread at one time, do not try to!):



• My special treat to you... Every single Hint of Tobi being Obito that Kishi left throughout the Naruto series (In full detail with manga scans)

• Why there were so many plot holes

• How great a job kishi has done to allowing people not working out who tobi was (Obito) (Why there were so many plot holes continued..)

• Why Obito is a better choice for Tobi then Kagami or Izuna

• Why Kishi had to make it somewhat obvious who tobi was near the time of his reveal:

• Obito’s motives to turn against the shinobi world:

• The real reason why people did not want Tobi to be Obito

• Another special treat to you.. My favourite AMV which covers all of the relevant characters in the Naruto Shippuden series from the start till just before the war arc.


==================



Hints kishi left throughout the Naruto series:

Spoiler

What would truly make Kishi a troll is giving no signs or hints throughout the Naruto series of Tobi being Obito and then at the last second pulling it out of his ass, this would be unacceptable because if you want to give your fans the chance to make theories about a secret you are keeping you have to give them some signs.

But actually as a writer it is your choice whether you give or not give any signs/clues of a secret you are keeping in your story. Normally writers tend to give clues that lean towards other characters to distract them from the truth.

==========

Let's start off with the first ever hint which ironically became the last:

A masked boy appears out of nowhere and takes out the deadly zabuza like he was nothing, a nice clean assassination. But the question on everybody's mind was who is this masked boy ?? Kishi opened the next manga chapter with this page:

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As you can see the manga chapter is called who are you? Strangely enough Kishi opens with a scene with Kakashi asleep and if we look carefully in the background we can see two pictures one of team kakashi and another one which is the first ever look we get of team Minato. Funny that Kishi would give the first sighting of Obito in a manga chapter called “who are you” which a mysterious masked person has appeared in the manga.

Most of us missed this hint because we did not start reading the manga at this time, but anyway there is the first link to Obito being the masked man.

Anyway the way Haku was unmasked the end of this masked boy mystery is Identical to the way Tobi was unmasked as we can see below:

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But funny enough the words Naruto said as he unmasked Tobi is the exact title were people first would of laid eyes on obito which is the manga chapter called Who are you, as you can see kishi has connected all these events which is Ironically the first and the last hints we were ever given.

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I notice Kishi say this a long time ago but I didn’t take it as anything, he says the wish is “entrusted” that is a very big key word to Tobi:

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The chapter title of the chapter we first ever saw Tobi was called “Entrusted Feelings”

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When Naruto mentions the word entrusted Tobi laughs at those words:

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and askes Naruto a serious question, what if you fail the mission others has entrusted into you. How will you feel about yourself?:

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Naruto himself has no answer, from watching Tobi recently we could see this was his biggest problem with the shinobi world. No matter how bad someone can want something to be true or to prevent something that does not fully assure that want they want will be achieved and what they want to prevent will not happen. Tobi wants to created a world where people can stop getting disappointed by failing their mission for peace and failing what people have entrusted onto them.. Infinite Tsukuyomi

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Imo Hair has never meant anything to me and I have never considered this to ever really be a hint from kishi about who Tobi is. All we can do with hair is just confirm things for example, the first "event" tobi has ever done that we have seen tobi had short hair.

The second events we have seen tobi do he had long hair and this was when he revealed him self to kisame for the first time and when he spoke with itachi. We can tell these two events are close to each other because of hair length and outfit. These two sightings of tobi where around 8 years after the kyuubi incident so his hair being long is understandable if he left his hair to grow.

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Tobi has sharingan in his right eye:

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Funny enough kakashi was the first to notice this (you will notice kakashi is most of the time always around when something is found out about Tobi that in itself is a hint)

Having a sharingan in your right eye means nothing, many shinobi implant sharingan and byakugan’s into their eye sockets, kishi used this knowledge to get rid of the thought that because Tobi had a sharingan in his right eye he could be obito.

==========


The hint about Tobi’s sharingan was that it’s abilities were very similar to the left eye Kakashi has in his left eye which he obtained from Obito


As we know Tobi can warp anything he touches into different dimensions.. as well as himself to different dimensions and other locations:

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And kakashi can warp anything he focuses his eye onto into different dimensions:

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These are the only two sharingan’s with S/T in the series the fact that kakashi has his in his left eye which he obtained from Obito and Tobi having his in his right eye is a direct hint that the eyes are both obito’s logically hinting that tobi is Obito.


This hint about kakashi knowing there is something similar about Tobi’s was strengthened by this scene:


Kakashi and Tobi meet up once more:

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but the way Kakashi talks to Tobi suggest Kakashi himself had doubts about Tobi being “Madara”:

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Kakashi in this scan was trying to confirm that Tobi is who he says he is we can see that by how he says it and him saying so you admit it: This is hints that something is fishy about Tobi being madara.


Tobi as we know is a good actor because who he said he is, is being doubted he makes many references to Hashirama which logically is something Madara would do as they are from the same time and he was his rival, Tobi played everyone even us as readers.


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With all the links about similar abilities they are strengthen even more by this scene

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Tobi tells Kakashi there is no point in even trying to use Kamui on him.


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Tobi’s body is one of the most messed up bodies in the series which is what you would expect by someone who had been crushed by a big rock who’s else body would be this ****ed up in the series:

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And we already knew all that white goo was zetsu:

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Having zetsu in you or not for you to be able to painlessly rip of limbs at will means you must have received heavy damage to that part of the body.


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We haven’t heard Obito talk much and by that I mean when he is serious and not joking around but here I will show you some hints in Obito’s speech that are hints to him being Tobi


This is a scene when Obito is angry so his true feelings is coming out now
He says him are Kakashi are like water and oil (which means they cannot mix) that is a phrase Obito used to describe him and Kakashi:

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When Tobi is talking to Sasuke and he is explaining how the Uchiha and Senju could never get along he describes their relationship to be like water and oil. Which is the exact phrase Obito use to use:

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This is a random one

Also read these two bottom panels:

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These are some serious words from Obito which came out when he was angry saying he will break the rules and crush that idea of "Shinobi".

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Tobi and Kakashi (funnily enough) meet up again but something is seriously bugging Tobi we can tell by his eyes and how the panel randomly switches to him:

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Instead of him saying good eyes he says good eye which means he is obviously referring to Kakashi’s sharingan:

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This was an obvious indirect to Kakashi having Obito’s eye which you would know as it has been my Sig for ages


Once again what Kakashi does seems to anger Tobi as we can see once again by his eyes and the panel randomly
switching to Tobi:

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Now those were all the not so obvious hints of Tobi being Obito that Kishi has left throughout the whole Naruto series. The next hints after these are more obvious as Tobi being revealed was right around the corner and was needed for build up and so they could be used for things such as flashbacks and what not. But anyway here they are for the sake of the thread:


Tobi saying Kakashi has always opened his mouth so easily directly implies that Tobi knows Kakashi and that Kakashi has said things that he has never been able to back up or accomplish:

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Most likely Obito was talking about these things that Kakashi has said:

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These are very big promises and maybe kakashi shouldn’t have promised such things that there was no way of telling if he could actually do this.


Tobi meaning those words kakashi has said above when he said that Kakashi opens his mouth to easily is back up by this scan:

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Words and no action (all the promises his made he had failed them) which means what he says and promises has no meaning to Tobi


This implies Tobi and kakashi’s eye is both Obito’s eyes:

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A world where heroes don’t have to make apologies in front of grave yards obviously referring to Kakashi:

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Not afraid of some Borrowed power, this would mean that Tobi’s Kamui is not borrowed and is his:

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This is backed up by him saying “The real Kamui”:

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Ok so that’s all the hints I have found that Kishi has left in his manga, so with all these hints how can you say Kishi making Tobi obito is a troll? As I have shown you Kishi did not pull this out of his ass he has planned this since the beginning.

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Why there were so many plot holes:

Spoiler

Why you can’t call Kishi a troll:

The reasons there were so many plot holes in Tobi being Obito was because kishi did not want us to work this out by ourselves before the time was right. If you were Kishi why would you make it nice and clear what your secret was from day one. He wrote the story he put the plot holes there on purpose.

Despite all links which can be seen in the “My special treat to you... Every single Hint of Tobi being Obito that Kishi left throughout the Naruto series (In full detail with manga scans)” section Kishi has done many things throughout the series to disprove the very links he made.

Which I agree gives you a reason to call Kishi a troll but.... SO? If you are a writer and you are trying to keep a secret in this case Tobi’s Identity why would you allow your readers to work out what the secret is before the time is right? What would be the point of keeping that secret?

People say the events in the manga made it seem like Tobi cannot be Obito so Kishi is a troll if he is. Well what people need to realise is, I THINK THAT WAS THE BLOODY POINT!

Kishi made us think Obito is dead and made Tobi say things posing as Madara such as "My battle with the first" "Hashirama is the man I hated and respected the most" "I gave nagato the rinnegan" "I incouraged yahiko" to make us think that there is no way Tobi can be Obito. You call him a troll because he didn’t allow you to work out who Tobi is before he wanted you to??

The best thing about all this is it worked 80% of base in the last few years has said there is no way Tobi can be Obito and that he is dead and the things Tobi has done was before obito’s time. This is exactly what Kishi wanted you to think. Out of the 20% left of people who did think Tobi was Obito 10-15% of them were retards and thought he was Obito just because of hair and name and the other 10-5% actually could see the links kishi had left behind and even with everything kishi had tried to prevent us from working out the truth before the time was necessary we did! But of course we didn’t know we was right but we could see ways in how even with all the plot holes Tobi could still be obito.

Why you can call Kishi a troll:

Something I don’t quite understand is instead of making it difficult to work out who Tobi is from the start, Kishi give direct clues to Tobi being Obito from the start and this was his hair, name, behaviour and only having 1 eye socket open from when he first met Tobi. And then after we were made to believe Tobi is Obito that’s when he started to purposely put in plot holes like Tobi having 2 sharingan’s, flash backs with tobi with longer hair, him calling himself Uchiha Madara and having vast knowledge also stating he had done certain things like battle with the 1st

Why would Kishi make it so obvious from the start and then lead us off it to then very later on bring us back to what we first believed?? It’s not that great of a surprise method and if you think kishi is a troll for this I agree.

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How great a job kishi has done to allowing people not working out who tobi was (Obito) (Why there were so many plot holes continued..)

Spoiler

Kishi counter all the obvious hints he had made with Tobi being Obito:

Tobi and Obito’s name being similar: He stated he was Uchiha Madara
Tobi and Obito having similar hair: Flash backs with longer hair
Tobi having only one sharingan where Obito’s eye would be: Tobi having a hidden sharingan which was revealed in his fight against Konan.

Kishi done all this on purpose to make the Tobi = Obito retards seem like they were even bigger retards because everything they said can be disproven.

The problem was among those retards where actually people who looked into Tobi being Obito deeply and looked past the obvious signs has such hair and name and found true links. But unfortunately Tobi = Obito believers are all branded as retards and hated so these people’s theories who had found the real links of Tobi being Obito were disregarded and not taken seriously. For more about this go to this section “The real reason why people did not want Tobi to be Obito”


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People have been saying that Kishi has made it too obvious that Tobi is Obito. The reason people have been saying this is because of chapters 594 - 598 were Tobi has become a little off edge and started making remarks to kakashi.

What people forget is how long we have known Tobi for and the long journey of identities and possibilities we have had for him.

From chapters 364 – 559 everybody believed that Tobi was Uchiha Madara look how long Kishi had fooled us for. From chapters 559 – 593 Kishi had purposely let the Tobi Identity theories of his fans start up again making us all wonder who Tobi is.

From chapters 594 – 598 Kishi has built up upon the fact that Tobi is Obito which is only 4 chapters and this was needed for why it was needed go to this section of the thread “Why Kishi had to make it somewhat obvious who tobi was”

For so long people have been saying Tobi is not Obito and because kishi has made it obvious to us for 4 chapters you call him a troll???? For 229 (364 – 593) chapters people were saying there is no way Tobi is Obito and for 4 chapters kishi has made it obvious that it is and you call him a troll?? So what about all the time he made us think he was not Obito? That’s what people forget.

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Why obito is a better choice for tobi then Kagami or izuna:

Spoiler

Ok so Kishi has made tobi wear a mask for the last 318 chapters this means that as well as making Tobi's Identity shocking to us he also has to make his identity shocking to the main characters as well. You can’t make someone hide himself for that long and not impact your characters when he is revealed WTH would be the point?

This means that tobi has to be a character that would connect with most of the characters in Naruto in some way or somehow to make who he is a shock to the characters that are alive.

If Tobi was kagami who would it shock in the current naruto world? The tobirama is dead, Hiruzen is dead, Danzo is dead, the two advisors are basically retired and do not have much involvement in current shinobi affairs even more so because hiruzen is dead.

So all the characters that would connect to Kagami in some way or somehow is dead.

If Tobi was Izuna, the only person that it would effect is madara, Izuna wasn't even alive during the founding of konoha Hashirama may of heard of him or met him a few times but that’s it.

So basically if Tobi was revealed to be Izuna the next lines from Naruto, Bee, Kakashi and Gai would be: Who!?!?

What's the point of making Tobi wear a mask if no one’s going to know him anyway and he still has to explain to everyone who he is.

So as you can see him being Kagami or Izuna would not affect most of the Naruto characters that are alive today anyway.

Now as Tobi is Obito this now involves, Minato his master, Kakashi his best friend, Naruto his dad's student and his sensei's best friend (well and gai but yh anyway). Minato, kakashi and Naruto connect with most current characters that are alive today in some way or somehow so that in turn involves everyone and is a good reason to wear a mask.

So Tobi being obito affects all of the current alive characters in the story.

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Why Kishi had to make it somewhat obvious who tobi was:

Spoiler

People have been saying Kishi has made it too obvious who Tobi is and he is a troll for making Tobi Obito. But answer this question, if Kishi had left tobi saying I am no one, I am no one and then in one random chapter give all the links to Tobi being obito and then at the end of that same chapter he get's revealed, are you telling me you would be happy with this??

This would be real trolling, it would be too random and it would feel like Kishi pulled this out of his ass. Why was tobi able to act so calm in front of kakashi and then in one random chapter just flip out and start giving signs, that would be trolling from kishi to me and it would be too random. I don't know if you would prefer kishi to just do all of that in one random chapter but to me that would be real trolling.

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Obito’s motives to turn against the shinobi world:

Spoiler

Obito gave his life for his best friend and also gave him a gift to allow him to become stronger, Obito’s only wish that he entrusted to Kakashi was “Take care of Rin” the girl he loved. Kakashi assures to Obito he will protect her and later on assures to Rin that even if it cost him his life he will protect her.

I assure Kakashi was not lying when he said these things there was no doubt in his heart he meant what he said. Despite how bad Kakashi meant this he cannot escape the harsh reality of life which is no matter how bad someone can want something to be true or to prevent something from happening that does not fully assure that want they want will be achieved and what they want to prevent will not happen.

Obito wants to created a world where people can stop getting disappointed by failing their mission for peace and failing what people have entrusted onto them.. Infinite Tsukuyomi

Rin is not his only reason, despite Kakashi wanting to protect him as his captain, kakashi could not do anything about his “death” There was fighting, hate and war all around Obito. As we have seen with other villains it sadly makes them realise there is no such thing as peace and hope is nothing but merely a word.

There are a lot of people who realise this, what Obito believes is not something new or special the only difference between Obito and the many others who believe this is that Obito had the power to do something about it.

This is exactly the same with Nagato the only difference is Obito was more powerful and had a greater plan which would assure peace which was even better then Nagato’s plan of using fear to create peace. Because of this Obito was able to use Nagato and assure him peace will be obtained.

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The real reason why people did not want Tobi to be Obito:

Spoiler

The real reason why people do not like all the Tobi is Obito theories is because of the way it all started. The people who said Tobi is Obito because of his name and hair it made all the people who thought Tobi was Obito look like retards.

From then onwards all Tobi Is obito theories were quickly disregarded and the people who made them were called retards.

But what people did not realise is that among those people who were retards there were some who had actually looked deeply into this (Me and few others) and had found real links between Tobi and Obito. But It was too late for me and those people because people who thought Tobi is Obito had already been branded as retards and hated for their stupidity.

Plus Kishi had purposely put in a lot of plot holes to stop people from working out that Tobi was Obito, that didn’t help the people who could really see the links of Tobi being Obito out at all.

The thought of these guys that they have been trashing, calling stupid, retarded and much more for years being right about one of the biggest mysterious in Naruto was hard for some people.

The mistake that they made was that not all the people who thought this were retards and some of them had actually looked into this very deeply and saw the signs Kishi has left which can be seen in this section: My special treat to you... Every single Hint of Tobi being Obito that Kishi left throughout the Naruto series (In full detail with manga scans).

Maybe they should have listened to some of the things these people were saying instead of trashing them for the past years and telling them there is no way Tobi is Obito and it is impossible.

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Another special treat to you.. My favourite AMV which covers all of the relevant characters in the Naruto Shippuden series from the start till just before the war are:

Spoiler

The first 50 seconds are a bit “What the hell is going on” but the next 6+ minuets makes this one of the most EPIC AMV’s I have lay eyes on in my life. It made me realise what an amazing series Kishi has giving to us and that no one has the right to ever call him a troll.

(Watch with headphones and drown in the Epicness Kishi has created for us)

​

This only shows the action from the Naruto Shippuden series from the start till just before the War Arc it does not have any action of the Part 1 Naruto series and does not even go into the story that kishi has created and given to us. Despite that it is still easily one of the most epic things I have watched in my life and makes me realise how happy I am Kishi has gave us this series.

If you want to call Kishi a troll because Tobi is someone who you thought and who Kishi has purposely made you think is not and disregard the whole series Kishi has giving us then that is truly amazing to me. Naruto is an EPIC series and I love it! If you don’t because of this then you can easily stop reading and watching no one else will care .

Do Not Move This Thread!

Post #89 is a must read, real words.

good thread ,I admire you , agree with you

 

[joesama]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

I must admit I was also a bit disapointed on it being Obito. Until I read this. I've been reading/watching this show for 6-7 years and I told myself that if it's obito its a crap show. But it all makes sense now and I couldn't be happier.

But I have some trouble with this. Plotholes or not, when Tobi attacks the village he is still a fully grown man, which kakashi isn't. I know that kishi wants to throw us off but that is just logically bad and not well made. I get the whole zetsu thing. But please explain to me if I missed it. I just don't see how that is obito attacking unless its madara or something.

Thanks for a great post appretiate your big work and the AMV was awesome. Cheers

 

[InGyeong]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

Oh my god!!!
I called Kishi a troll!!!
I hope he did not here it and is starting to cry, the poor guy!!!

xd xd xd

Plus this one

I didn't really read anything in this thread. I just want to clear something here.

I got the right to ****ing call someone a troll if I feel like it.

is absolutely right.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

good thread ,I admire you , agree with you

Thanks man

I must admit I was also a bit disapointed on it being Obito. Until I read this. I've been reading/watching this show for 6-7 years and I told myself that if it's obito its a crap show. But it all makes sense now and I couldn't be happier.

But I have some trouble with this. Plotholes or not, when Tobi attacks the village he is still a fully grown man, which kakashi isn't. I know that kishi wants to throw us off but that is just logically bad and not well made. I get the whole zetsu thing. But please explain to me if I missed it. I just don't see how that is obito attacking unless its madara or something.

Thanks for a great post appretiate your big work and the AMV was awesome. Cheers

For that we have to remember Obito was wearing a mask to hide his face and a hoody to hide his body posture, we did not get a side by side comparison of his and minato's height. Plus itachi had his adult voice at 13 if he wore a mask we wouldn't be able to tell how old he was he would sound like he was an adult. Kakashi and gai also had their adult voices in the nine tails attack.

Plus zetsu and senju dna could have altered his body you never know, it was said that sasuke appeared older because orochimaru was giving him growth pills or something like that.

I'm glad this thread helped you understand that kishi was not trolling making tobi obito and he did not just pull this out his ass it was planned throughout the series

Oh my god!!!
I called Kishi a troll!!!
I hope he did not here it and is starting to cry, the poor guy!!!

xd xd xd

Plus this one



is absolutely right.

LOL this was not the original title of the thread, it was something like "You have no right to call kishi a troll for making tobi obito or just involving obito's body) until you have read this.

So I was saying before you call kishi a troll, read this. But it was to long so the moderators changed it for me. This title comes on a bit strong but if you read the thread it's actually good. Or just read any section you want

 

[Hawking]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

Just because of your fantastic post I've decided to register here and post a thank you reply

I shared it on facebook and my friend told me: "Okay, now I'm convinced."

So you did a good job, I was among those, who despised the idea of Tobi being Obito. But with coming of the real Madara, I started to think about TOBITO again. But I didn't know all those clues you've found. That's just awesome, as well as your other arguments.

Now I have something to show to all "fans" who are still upset with Tobi's identity.

Great work, you're a real fan

 

[Razen]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

Just because of your fantastic post I've decided to register here and post a thank you reply

I shared it on facebook and my friend told me: "Okay, now I'm convinced."

So you did a good job, I was among those, who despised the idea of Tobi being Obito. But with coming of the real Madara, I started to think about TOBITO again. But I didn't know all those clues you've found. That's just awesome, as well as your other arguments.

Now I have something to show to all "fans" who are still upset with Tobi's identity.

Great work, you're a real fan

LOL i came here because a friend sended the link in facebook and i said to him the same thing. And i also registered here because of this thread

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

Just because of your fantastic post I've decided to register here and post a thank you reply

I shared it on facebook and my friend told me: "Okay, now I'm convinced."

So you did a good job, I was among those, who despised the idea of Tobi being Obito. But with coming of the real Madara, I started to think about TOBITO again. But I didn't know all those clues you've found. That's just awesome, as well as your other arguments.

Now I have something to show to all "fans" who are still upset with Tobi's identity.

Great work, you're a real fan

Thanks, man I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. I knew people would be angry and say kishi is a troll he just pulled this out his ass and all that but I wanted to show them if you looked into this deeply you can see it was planned from the start and is actually more entertaining for the story. Tbh this thread wasn't needed because kishi would of showed people himself that there are no plot holes and how good it is for the story but the people saying bad things about kishi was to much and I it would take a long time before kishi cleared up everything.

LOL i came here because a friend sended the link in facebook and i said to him the same thing. And i also registered here because of this thread

Thanks, you can read the apply above. Welcome to base if you need anything private message me or send me a message on my profile.

 

[tetothecoolio]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

This is very well, done. And I have to agree with you on many points. This has changed the way I have been looking at the most recent chapters.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

This is very well, done. And I have to agree with you on many points. This has changed the way I have been looking at the most recent chapters.

Glad my thread done it's job but even without it kishi would of shown everyone that him being obito is good for the story on his own. But people jump to conclusions to quickly without letting kishi explain so this thread was needed. I made it a day before chapter 599 as I was certain tobi was obito because of all the things I have seen in the manga which I have shown in this thread.

But anyway with recent chapters kishi has cleared up most of the plot holes just as some people knew he would.

 

[TheWillOfFire01]

Awesome thread man!

 

[UchihaInza]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

i dont think anyone read that xd Uchiha Inza

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Re: You Have No Right To Call Kishi a Troll

Awesome thread man!

Thanks man

i dont think anyone read that xd Uchiha Inza

Well there was kind of 150 posts from people who did read it lol everyone knows that on a long post the first people to post are the guys who didn't read.

From half way down page one and onwards is post from people who did read. This is a old thread though

 

[Lentz]

Awesome thread man!

You just used edo tensei on this thread, good job.

 

[shelke]

I never considered Obito to be a troll character. In fact Tobi being Obito was too damn obvious because of his Sharingan placement, his Kamui being superior to Kakashi - the only two characters that use this dojutsu - his links with Madara as the only possible reason he could have survived would've been because of Madara. Yes, I believed Madara was alive, but I was proven wrong that he died not long ago before he entrusted his will to Obito.

My own problem with Obito was his Obviousness. Even the name Tobi is a word scrabble. Good job. You already have a lot of rep, but have some more.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

I never considered Obito to be a troll character. In fact Tobi being Obito was too damn obvious because of his Sharingan placement, his Kamui being superior to Kakashi - the only two characters that use this dojutsu - his links with Madara as the only possible reason he could have survived would've been because of Madara. Yes, I believed Madara was alive, but I was proven wrong that he died not long ago before he entrusted his will to Obito.

My own problem with Obito was his Obviousness. Even the name Tobi is a word scrabble. Good job. You already have a lot of rep, but have some more.

Lol thanks man, this was something I mentioned in my OP:


"Something I don’t quite understand is instead of making it difficult to work out who Tobi is from the start, Kishi give direct clues to Tobi being Obito from the start and this was his hair, name, behaviour and only having 1 eye socket open from when he first met Tobi. And then after we were made to believe Tobi is Obito that’s when he started to purposely put in plot holes like Tobi having 2 sharingan’s, flash backs with tobi with longer hair, him calling himself Uchiha Madara and having vast knowledge also stating he had done certain things like battle with the 1st


Why would Kishi make it so obvious from the start and then lead us off it to then very later on bring us back to what we first believed?? It’s not that great of a surprise method and if you think kishi is a troll for this I agree."


But anyway despite that, the amount of people who said it was impossible for tobi to be obito he got crushed by a boulder, he had 2 sharingan's against konan etc.. was ridiculous.


I think if it was really that obvious, everyone would be saying tobi was obito. But this was not the case. 80% for base thought that there was no way obito could be tobi, due to age, health skill level etc..

So I think kishi did a good job for making people believe it wasn't obito. But I don't get why he made it obvious from the start.

Maybe kishi just isn't that good at these things. Think how obvious it was minato was naruto's dad and we had to wait forever for us to find out.

 

[shelke]

^ I read all of your points, don't fret. I just believe that, how should I put this, a hidden character should have a level of mystique. Whilst I won't begrudge Kishimoto for not instilling it, it still lost that 'wow factor' for me with Obito's reveal. I kept saying: "let it be anything but obito". The hair do was the deal sealer though.

 

[Yatori]

I read the whole things.. fuh finally at least someone understand this series well.. the others thread make people look more dumb lol.. you earned my respect.. I am touch with this thread thanks for explaining it well to others that seem cant understand by themself yeah u rock bro )))

 

[somniferous]

I read the whole things.. fuh finally at least someone understand this series well.. the others thread make people look more dumb lol.. you earned my respect.. I am touch with this thread thanks for explaining it well to others that seem cant understand by themself yeah u rock bro )))

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[Cornson]

Before you read my post take in to account that English is not my first langauge and that I am dyslexic (to a minor degree) so there will be spelling mistakes! (though my point should still be very clear and easily understood)
and before I start, there will be spoilers in my post, concidder yourself warned!!! (though I can't picture anyone reading this topic and not being up to date about what have happened in the naruto universe)

So okay! lets start this!

I assure you, you cannot read all of this thread. Each section is like a thread in its self which would mean this is like 8 threads in 1

I just read the whole thing in one go, so you wore mistaken (though I get what you mean sometimes you can write a gigantic post and it takes hours! but people can easily read it in less than 1 hour (which is what happened in this case) and I can easily see that you have put in alot of effort in to making it, so i applaud you for that, but I still disagree, there are still to many gaps that just dosent make sence, I still feal very much troled by kishi for making Obito Tobi, I honestly feal that he wanted to make Obito tobi from the start, but then the story evolved to much and kishi backed himself in a corner, and instead of doing what he should have done (making anyone but Obito tobi, he stayed true to his original plan and ripped the timeline apart doing so) which is why I have lost pretty much all interest in Naruto (comes from a guy who had seen every episodes of naruto, even the fillers!) and read all the manga chaptors up to the reveal.

Also like 1/3 of your entire post is just you saying Kishi is not a troll, over and over and over and over... -.-' and that you said anyone just bashed the Obito = Tobi theory because of the hair collor and the fact that obito had the sharingan.

Hints kishi left throughout the Naruto series

The Photo + chapter title: I personally don't see this as a hint, just some information about the very first team kakashi's was on, back when he was young.

Funny that Kishi would give the first sighting of Obito in a manga chapter called “who are you”

I don't see this as a hint at all, it's pretty far featched to take a picture on a nightstand of a person we wore told was killed not soo after the picture was taken + the fact that we see a young person with a mask (haku) and simply say:

Most of us missed this hint because we did not start reading the manga at this time, but anyway there is the first link to Obito being the masked man." (Tobi)

Seem more like grasping for straws that a actual hint to me.

“entrusted”

Sure it's a Big key word for Tobi, but so is it for others (Nagato, Naruto, heck if i remembered correctly even Gara said he was entrushed with protecting the people of the sand) It seems more like one of those words Kishimoto likes to use, than some hitten magic word only Obito use.

"Hair"

I totally agree with you, it have never meant anything, and was never a clue, and those that though it was.... I don't even need to finish that sentence.

Tobi has sharingan in his right eye

So what? It was the right side of Obito that was crushed by the boulder so the Sharingan should not have survived, heck Obito should not have survived, but he did... How was it again he survived that? Ohh ye that's right! He activated his Mangekyu Sharingan ability: Kumui when he had not achived the Mangekyu Sharingan! heck he diden't even have the 3'rd totem yet! He still only had the 2'nd Sharingan totem! (Gigantic plot whole and the first of many Plot Holes regarding Obito!) and one of the biggest reasons why I call Kishimoto a Troll with a capital T! (having Obito use Mangekyu sharingan before he had Mangekyu sharingan (something you can only achive after you have the 3'rd sharingan totem and after you have killed your best friend!) (Obito did not meet any of those criteria) yet he still activated it to be able to survive the boulder....... ! (fuc**** plot armor!)

Having a sharingan in your right eye means nothing, many shinobi implant sharingan and byakugan’s into their eye sockets

And I agree with you, the fact he he had it in his right eye means nothing.

These are the only two sharingan’s with S/T

Just because they are the only known Shinobi with that ability does not mean anything, there could be more people with similar abilites we just never have heard of, or at least have been more uchiha, or just more random shinobi in the past that had a similar ability.

the fact that kakashi has his (sharingan) in his left eye

means abselutely nothing, im sorry to say it, but it really meanst nothing, Kakashi just happened to get cut cut in his left eye, and obito just happened to have his right side "crushed" which only left the "left eye" to the "left eye" senario possible, kakashi could have gotten cut in the right eye and had the sharingan transplanted there, or Obito could have had his left side "crushed" instead of the right... So the eye placement means nothing.

Tobi tells Kakashi there is no point in even trying to use Kamui on him

this could just have been because he was "to powerfull to be affected" or "his ghost form ability nullified any and all dimension transportation jutsu" or that he had somehow managed to find a way to counter Kakashi's Kumui.

He had plenty of time to try and figure out a way to do it after Deidara (his Senpai) surived the Kumui twice in his battel with kakashi.

Kakashi is unsertain about Tobi's claim to be Madara

Kakashi is always trying to find out as much as he can about his oponents before fighting them (logical) and it's only natural to question a guy that's suposely 100 years old and still apear to be young (though we have seen other shinobi do this "Kakuzo" hidan's akatski partner, is the first that springes to mind)

Tobi’s body is one of the most messed up bodies in the series

As far as we are aware off there could be many people that have gotten more "messed up" that Toby, we just haven't heart of them, so how is this hint of Obito being Tobi?

Oil and Water

Good catch, and this is argueable the best hint to suport your theory of "Obito = Tobi" you have made, but just like the "entrusted" it could simply be a "catch frace" that Kishimoto likes and have therefor used in the series when ever he though it would make sence. Just like he does with the "will of fire" frace, it could have been replaced with more "logical" fraces, but it wasen't.

Then i'll Crush that Idea of a shinobi

This could just have been "all words and no action" sure it's backed up by Obito honestly meaning it, but Kakashi also ment that he wanted to protect Rin when he said what he said to her, even though he ended up failing on that promise.

good eye

Just because Tobi refeares to Kakashis "good eye" dosen't really mean anything, it's to be expected that anyone about to face the famouse Copy Cat Ninja - Kakashi Hatake in battel might comment on kakashis sharingan, I in no way see this as a hint of Obito being Tobi.

Kakashi has always opened his mouth so easily

at this point there wore no way Kishimoto was not gonna make Obito, Tobi so it's only natural that he would make dialog that would connect Obito to Tobi (as you said youself) "just prior to the tobi reveal which was just around the corner" and yes it directly implies that Tobi knew Kakashi or that he at least have been in contact with someone who have been close to kakashi or have somehow gotten that information by interogation, taking the information from Obito's badly destoryed body or in some other way.

This implies Tobi and kakashi’s eye is both Obito’s eyes

No it dosen't 0_o? all it implies is that Tobi have some personal information on kakashi, nothing else. (please tell me how you connected those dots, because I can't see any logical way you did it)

The real Kamui (Not afraid of some Borrowed power)

Okay i'll give you the that this would means that it was very likely that Tobi's Kumui is his own, and therefor Tobi must be Obito, or that he, like Kakashi have gotten his hands on one of the Obito's eyes (in this case the right one, because Kakashi got the left) but someone could might aswell have found Obito's body, taken some DNA from him, cloned him and then at some point harvested the Sharingan.

Why there were so many plot holes

First of all Kishimoto could easiliy have goon on about the story without making those plot holes, in fact im pretty confident that the only reason they are there is because he wanted to make Obito Tobi from the get go, but his story had evolved so much that it was impossible to do so without plot holes. (which means that Kishimito sacrifising the intregity of the story just to make Obito Tobi!)

People say the events in the manga made it seem like Tobi cannot be Obito so Kishi is a troll if he is. Well what people need to realise is, I THINK THAT WAS THE BLOODY POINT!

He could have kept the secret without making all those god awefull plot holes, he pretty much made it clear that Obito could not have been Tobi, and here are the reasons why:

1: Obito got crushed by the boulder and died (Kishimoto got around this by having Obito activating his Mangekyu Sharingan before he had obtrained it...)

2: Tobi giving Nagato the Rinnegan before he was born (Kishimoto got around this by having the real Marara do this)

3: Tobi infiltrated the leaf village, killing dossens of ANBU black ops, summoning the Kyubi and fighting toe to toe against the 4'th hokage (all this happened a very few years after the bridge mission where Obito was supposely "crushed/killed") at this point Obito is still in his mid teens/late teens! So when did he get this massively powerup? and the huge amount of information he got... and more importently how? and many skilled ninja train all their lives and still dosen't become as powerfull as Obito managed to be in just 2-5 years... He pretty much went from being a loser/guy without much talent for being anything more than just a cannon fotter ninja (with the sharingan though) to becomming one of the strongest characters in the naruto universe! (Kishimoto never got around this plot hole, it's still there, unexplained)

4: how could Minato not reconize his former student, sure as far as Minato knew he was, but Naruto said himself that when Shinobi get to a surtain level they get the ability to instantly know/sence the other person they are fighting, and know their fealings, thoughts, skill level and desires as soon as they fight with them (naruto says this after the incident where sasuke tries to kill sakura, kakashi and Naruto) (Kishimoto never got around this plot hole, it's still there, unexplained)

5: Obito obtained the Mangekyu Sharingan after Kakashi killed his closest friend (Rin) .... and here I though that the Mangekyu Sharingan only got "unlocked" when you personally wend true the traumatic experience of killing your own "best friend" (this was how it was explained to us) not magicly getting it when someone else "who do posses 1 of your eyes" killes their best friend. (Kishimoto explained it this way... I personally feal it's a copeout, and it was his only way of giving Obito the Mangekyu Sharingan without having Obito kill Kakashi)

then you go on to talk about how a very small % of people (5-10%) managed to figure out Obito was Tobi prior to the reveal, but honestly it was only after the "you are all words and no action" that you really have a pretty solid theory, before that there wore many theories that made more sence (without plot holes I may add!)

Why would Kishi make it so obvious from the start and then lead us off

It was not obvious that Obito was Tobi at the start... people just wend ohh look his hair is black and he have the Sharingan, and sins all the Uchiha got massacret by Itachi, Tobi must be Obito...

"How great a job kishi has done to allowing people not working out who tobi was (Obito)

This whole section is pretty much you saying it's unfair to call Kishimoto a troll (I disagree) and stating that because of the "easily refeautible" reason why Obito could not be Tobi all the other "real" reasons for beliving that Obito might be Tobi just got dismissed as "retarted Obito comment" and you might/propertly have been right on this, I sure dismissed it pretty easily, and i still do, and as you saw earlier in my replie I still don't see all your "hints" as being some small gems of insigh (for lack of better terms) they are all just circumstantial evidence at best, where some isent even hints at all... and for most of them there are more obvious or at least better explained reasons for someone else to be Tobi than "Obito being Tobi"

People have been saying that Kishi has made it too obvious that Tobi is Obito

Here I agree with you that what people forget is how long we have known Tobi for and the long journey of identities and possibilities we have had for him... And that it was only at Tobi reveal that it was "obvious" who Tobi was.

Why obito is a better choice for tobi then Kagami or izuna

I actually agree that It could be seen as kinda random that when Tobi finally was revealed and he had ended up being a person no one could/would recognize...

But it could have fit in perfectly with the fact that Tobi first tried to become feared by having people think he was Madara, Just the name inbue chock and awe in any shinobi, and then later on when he said "I have nobody" that he litterly dident see himself as person anymore, just a instrument for a cause. (I would actually say that would have made more sence)

And who says the reveal has to emotional and shocking? isen't this something you just want it to be? So it fits better with the Obito being Tobi theory (and Obito being Tobi really only affected Kakashi... Mighty Guy had forgotten him, and Naruto had never heard of the guy)

here are a few people Tobi could have been:

Tobi could have been who he claimed to be, Madara Uchiha.

Tobi could have been the Uchiha kagami.

Tobi could have been the Uchiha Izuna.

Tobi could have been a Uchiha that was belived to have died in battel prior to the Uchiha massacre, but somehow survived and chose not to go back to the village.

Tobi could have been a Uchiha that somehow survived the Uchiha massacre, and then chose to leave the village in pusuit of Itachi, or for at other reason.

Tobi could have been a random Shinobi who had his eyes replaced with Sharings that was "stolen/borrowed/bought/given" or in some other way aquired.

Tobi could have been a random Uchiha with a time traveling Ninjutsu.

Tobi could have been a random shinobi with a "stolen/borrowed/bought/given" sharingan and time traveling Ninjutsu.

Tobi could have been Madara/Kagami/Izune (or a future Sasuke) with a time traveling ninjutsu.

if Kishi had left tobi saying I am no one, I am no one and then in one random chapter give all the links to Tobi being obito and then at the end of that same chapter he get's revealed, are you telling me you would be happy with this??

I most Deffenetly would not have been happy about that, though what he should have done was not making Obito Tobi and everything would have been fine...

and the way you describe would be extream trolling and would have been ever worse than how it was actually done, but that does not change the fact that Kishimoto was indeed Trolling and chosing to **** up the timeline instead of realizing that his original idea (Obito being Tobi) was not only moronic, but also boring and it actually ended up hurting the story! Kishimoto have been trying ever sins the Tobi reveal to dig himself out of that gigantic plot hole he made when he made Obito Tobi... And led me tell you, he aint out of it yet!

Obito’s motives to turn against the shinobi world

I was nodding and agreeing truely this intire section of your post untill I came apun this:

what Obito believes is not something new or special the only difference between Obito and the many others who believe this is that Obito had the power to do something about it

When exactly did Obito had the power to do something about it? when he said that people that abandon their comarades are scum? or when he got crushed by the huge boulder?

Ohh!! You ment when it was Tobi doing stuff? well that could just as well have been a other character, this in no way indicated what so ever that Obito is Tobi and sure it showes Tobi's resolve about his plan, but it in no way indicated that Obito must have been Tobi. (and therefor it's null and void!) (I could have used the exact same arguement to try and prove the theory that Tobi is Sasuke with a time traveling Ninjutsu from the future... and it would have given my theory (a theory I don't believe in btw) just as much credits as it did to the "Obito is Tobi theory"

and this:

This is exactly the same with Nagato the only difference is Obito was more powerful and had a greater plan which would assure peace which was even better then Nagato’s plan of using fear to create peace. Because of this Obito was able to use Nagato and assure him peace will be obtained.

First of all diden't Tobi state that Nagoto not only agreed with his "real plan" but also did all he could to make it a reality? and it could just as well have been a other character than Obito having that plan.

The real reason why people did not want Tobi to be Obito

the thoery was ludacrus at the beginning, and you know what? it still is... Even now a ½ year after Tobi was revealed...

But what people did not realise is that among those people who were retards there were some who had actually looked deeply into this (Me and few others) and had found real links between Tobi and Obito."

I just read true your "real links" that backes your theory, and I just don't see those Links, most of them are insignificant, circumstantial, some can even be instantly ignored and some support mulitiable theories, it's only just prior to the Tobi reveal anyone could say that Obito might actually be Tobi and have ended up not sounding like a retard (I really hope this doesent offend you! because it's not ment as a insult!)

Plus Kishi had purposely put in a lot of plot holes to stop people from working out that Tobi was Obito

Well he sure did a mighty good job at that! The theory is still filled with Plot holes and the only way I can see Kishimoto fixing it is by giving Obito a time traveling Ninjutsu...

Maybe they should have listened to some of the things these people were saying instead of trashing them for the past years and telling them there is no way Tobi is Obito and it is impossible

Or maybe Kishimoto should just have realized that his original idea (Obito being Tobi) no longer wore compateable with the way the story and plot of Naruto had evolved? And by him going on with it, he actually ended up hurting the story!

(Note to everyone/anyone who reads this post! This post took sligtly more than 5 hours to write! and like a ½ hour to get all the quotes right)

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Splendid thread ol'boy, good work!