You have no right to call Kishi a troll for Obito being Tobi.

[Mark Nutt]

Eh, I'll call him what I want

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Not going to read every single word but going to reply to some points as we have already discussed through PM's that I made this thread the day tobi was revealed to be obito and have since then not really cared about this topic and also did not no any of the back story with obito. I will reply within your post in bold, like I said I don't care about this topic obito can die or whatever but as you put a lot of effort into it I will reply to some.

Before you read my post take in to account that English is not my first langauge and that I am dyslexic (to a minor degree) so there will be spelling mistakes! (though my point should still be very clear and easily understood)
and before I start, there will be spoilers in my post, concidder yourself warned!!! (though I can't picture anyone reading this topic and not being up to date about what have happened in the naruto universe)

So okay! lets start this!



I just read the whole thing in one go, so you wore mistaken (though I get what you mean sometimes you can write a gigantic post and it takes hours! but people can easily read it in less than 1 hour (which is what happened in this case) and I can easily see that you have put in alot of effort in to making it, so i applaud you for that, but I still disagree, there are still to many gaps that just dosent make sence, I still feal very much troled by kishi for making Obito Tobi, I honestly feal that he wanted to make Obito tobi from the start, but then the story evolved to much and kishi backed himself in a corner, and instead of doing what he should have done (making anyone but Obito tobi, he stayed true to his original plan and ripped the timeline apart doing so) which is why I have lost pretty much all interest in Naruto (comes from a guy who had seen every episodes of naruto, even the fillers!) and read all the manga chaptors up to the reveal.

Also like 1/3 of your entire post is just you saying Kishi is not a troll, over and over and over and over... -.-' and that you said anyone just bashed the Obito = Tobi theory because of the hair collor and the fact that obito had the sharingan.



The Photo + chapter title: I personally don't see this as a hint, just some information about the very first team kakashi's was on, back when he was young.



I don't see this as a hint at all, it's pretty far featched to take a picture on a nightstand of a person we wore told was killed not soo after the picture was taken + the fact that we see a young person with a mask (haku) and simply say:



Seem more like grasping for straws that a actual hint to me.


Well it was a hint however good or bad because tobi was obito.




Sure it's a Big key word for Tobi, but so is it for others (Nagato, Naruto, heck if i remembered correctly even Gara said he was entrushed with protecting the people of the sand) It seems more like one of those words Kishimoto likes to use, than some hitten magic word only Obito use.





I totally agree with you, it have never meant anything, and was never a clue, and those that though it was.... I don't even need to finish that sentence.



So what? It was the right side of Obito that was crushed by the boulder so the Sharingan should not have survived, heck Obito should not have survived, but he did... How was it again he survived that? Ohh ye that's right! He activated his Mangekyu Sharingan ability: Kumui when he had not achived the Mangekyu Sharingan! heck he diden't even have the 3'rd totem yet! He still only had the 2'nd Sharingan totem! (Gigantic plot whole and the first of many Plot Holes regarding Obito!) and one of the biggest reasons why I call Kishimoto a Troll with a capital T! (having Obito use Mangekyu sharingan before he had Mangekyu sharingan (something you can only achive after you have the 3'rd sharingan totem and after you have killed your best friend!) (Obito did not meet any of those criteria) yet he still activated it to be able to survive the boulder....... ! (fuc**** plot armor!)



Back before tobi was revealed to be obito I always argued there is no proof the eye was completely destroyed and it could have just been pushed further back into his eye socket. seems it was true. As for how he survived once again I made this thread before obito was revealed to be tobi, I didn't know kishi would make up that bull.



And I agree with you, the fact he he had it in his right eye means nothing.



Just because they are the only known Shinobi with that ability does not mean anything, there could be more people with similar abilites we just never have heard of, or at least have been more uchiha, or just more random shinobi in the past that had a similar ability.


There could have been, but the fact that it was both s/t it could be argued they come from the same person, seems that argument was right. Kishi always left a chance of obito being tobi he never complete closed it. It being a completely different ms tech would close it.




means abselutely nothing, im sorry to say it, but it really meanst nothing, Kakashi just happened to get cut cut in his left eye, and obito just happened to have his right side "crushed" which only left the "left eye" to the "left eye" senario possible, kakashi could have gotten cut in the right eye and had the sharingan transplanted there, or Obito could have had his left side "crushed" instead of the right... So the eye placement means nothing.


Eye placement was still something to do his gay little half and half panels of obito and kakashis and yh thats about it.



this could just have been because he was "to powerfull to be affected" or "his ghost form ability nullified any and all dimension transportation jutsu" or that he had somehow managed to find a way to counter Kakashi's Kumui.


COULD have been that was my point back in the day kishi never closed the fact that it could be obito, it could be what you meant or it could be that tobi's ability had something to do with kamui or very similar once again the fact that kishi never closed this was a hint. People could always argue could never say it defiantly means.

Back then I always thought to my self if tobi was not obito why has he never closed that possibility up this carried on throughout the whole series he always left that opening.



He had plenty of time to try and figure out a way to do it after Deidara (his Senpai) surived the Kumui twice in his battel with kakashi.



Kakashi is always trying to find out as much as he can about his oponents before fighting them (logical) and it's only natural to question a guy that's suposely 100 years old and still apear to be young (though we have seen other shinobi do this "Kakuzo" hidan's akatski partner, is the first that springes to mind)




By this point I just meant that tobi actually being madara was a little shady even I didn't believe it at times, I would ask my self ok if your madara why wear a mask unless you got facial disfigured.





As far as we are aware off there could be many people that have gotten more "messed up" that Toby, we just haven't heart of them, so how is this hint of Obito being Tobi?




There could have been, but the fact that obito's body was messed up meant it would make sense if it was him. not if it was someone like naruto (obviously not lol) but he would have a fine body so how could he rip of limbs. But yh once again kishi left that possibility open




Good catch, and this is argueable the best hint to suport your theory of "Obito = Tobi" you have made, but just like the "entrusted" it could simply be a "catch frace" that Kishimoto likes and have therefor used in the series when ever he though it would make sence. Just like he does with the "will of fire" frace, it could have been replaced with more "logical" fraces, but it wasen't.



Could have been, but it could have also been a phrase that obito used to describe differences when he was a kid and still used when he was older, which it was.




This could just have been "all words and no action" sure it's backed up by Obito honestly meaning it, but Kakashi also ment that he wanted to protect Rin when he said what he said to her, even though he ended up failing on that promise.



Just because Tobi refeares to Kakashis "good eye" dosen't really mean anything, it's to be expected that anyone about to face the famouse Copy Cat Ninja - Kakashi Hatake in battel might comment on kakashis sharingan, I in no way see this as a hint of Obito being Tobi.



Yep or it could have been a pun because it was his eye, which it was. Basically my points with "which it was" in my replies is there is no point in arguing something could have meant something else because it didn't we know tobi was obito now so we can spot the little gay things kishi did which some people thought of.





at this point there wore no way Kishimoto was not gonna make Obito, Tobi so it's only natural that he would make dialog that would connect Obito to Tobi (as you said youself) "just prior to the tobi reveal which was just around the corner" and yes it directly implies that Tobi knew Kakashi or that he at least have been in contact with someone who have been close to kakashi or have somehow gotten that information by interogation, taking the information from Obito's badly destoryed body or in some other way.



No it dosen't 0_o? all it implies is that Tobi have some personal information on kakashi, nothing else. (please tell me how you connected those dots, because I can't see any logical way you did it)



Okay i'll give you the that this would means that it was very likely that Tobi's Kumui is his own, and therefor Tobi must be Obito, or that he, like Kakashi have gotten his hands on one of the Obito's eyes (in this case the right one, because Kakashi got the left) but someone could might aswell have found Obito's body, taken some DNA from him, cloned him and then at some point harvested the Sharingan.


Either way people knew obito was going to be tobi around this point I just added these last points in my thread to so more stuff it was really needed.





First of all Kishimoto could easiliy have goon on about the story without making those plot holes, in fact im pretty confident that the only reason they are there is because he wanted to make Obito Tobi from the get go, but his story had evolved so much that it was impossible to do so without plot holes. (which means that Kishimito sacrifising the intregity of the story just to make Obito Tobi!)



He could have kept the secret without making all those god awefull plot holes, he pretty much made it clear that Obito could not have been Tobi, and here are the reasons why:

1: Obito got crushed by the boulder and died (Kishimoto got around this by having Obito activating his Mangekyu Sharingan before he had obtrained it...)

2: Tobi giving Nagato the Rinnegan before he was born (Kishimoto got around this by having the real Marara do this)

3: Tobi infiltrated the leaf village, killing dossens of ANBU black ops, summoning the Kyubi and fighting toe to toe against the 4'th hokage (all this happened a very few years after the bridge mission where Obito was supposely "crushed/killed") at this point Obito is still in his mid teens/late teens! So when did he get this massively powerup? and the huge amount of information he got... and more importently how? and many skilled ninja train all their lives and still dosen't become as powerfull as Obito managed to be in just 2-5 years... He pretty much went from being a loser/guy without much talent for being anything more than just a cannon fotter ninja (with the sharingan though) to becomming one of the strongest characters in the naruto universe! (Kishimoto never got around this plot hole, it's still there, unexplained)

4: how could Minato not reconize his former student, sure as far as Minato knew he was, but Naruto said himself that when Shinobi get to a surtain level they get the ability to instantly know/sence the other person they are fighting, and know their fealings, thoughts, skill level and desires as soon as they fight with them (naruto says this after the incident where sasuke tries to kill sakura, kakashi and Naruto) (Kishimoto never got around this plot hole, it's still there, unexplained)

5: Obito obtained the Mangekyu Sharingan after Kakashi killed his closest friend (Rin) .... and here I though that the Mangekyu Sharingan only got "unlocked" when you personally wend true the traumatic experience of killing your own "best friend" (this was how it was explained to us) not magicly getting it when someone else "who do posses 1 of your eyes" killes their best friend. (Kishimoto explained it this way... I personally feal it's a copeout, and it was his only way of giving Obito the Mangekyu Sharingan without having Obito kill Kakashi)

then you go on to talk about how a very small % of people (5-10%) managed to figure out Obito was Tobi prior to the reveal, but honestly it was only after the "you are all words and no action" that you really have a pretty solid theory, before that there wore many theories that made more sence (without plot holes I may add!)





Didn't read most of this, but there had to be plot holes because if fit in so nicely everybody would know obito was tobi things like tobi giving nagato the rinnegan were purposely done by kishi However there were some real plot holes which could have been made my mistake I agree and saw some of them after we got tobi's back story






It was not obvious that Obito was Tobi at the start... people just wend ohh look his hair is black and he have the Sharingan, and sins all the Uchiha got massacret by Itachi, Tobi must be Obito...



Either way the fact that many people were saying it was obito and in the end it was that means it was obvious. Either way it lead people to think of the character obito because of whatever reason and in kishis mind it was obito behind that mask.





This whole section is pretty much you saying it's unfair to call Kishimoto a troll (I disagree) and stating that because of the "easily refeautible" reason why Obito could not be Tobi all the other "real" reasons for beliving that Obito might be Tobi just got dismissed as "retarted Obito comment" and you might/propertly have been right on this, I sure dismissed it pretty easily, and i still do, and as you saw earlier in my replie I still don't see all your "hints" as being some small gems of insigh (for lack of better terms) they are all just circumstantial evidence at best, where some isent even hints at all... and for most of them there are more obvious or at least better explained reasons for someone else to be Tobi than "Obito being Tobi"



Here I agree with you that what people forget is how long we have known Tobi for and the long journey of identities and possibilities we have had for him... And that it was only at Tobi reveal that it was "obvious" who Tobi was.



I actually agree that It could be seen as kinda random that when Tobi finally was revealed and he had ended up being a person no one could/would recognize...

But it could have fit in perfectly with the fact that Tobi first tried to become feared by having people think he was Madara, Just the name inbue chock and awe in any shinobi, and then later on when he said "I have nobody" that he litterly dident see himself as person anymore, just a instrument for a cause. (I would actually say that would have made more sence)

And who says the reveal has to emotional and shocking? isen't this something you just want it to be? So it fits better with the Obito being Tobi theory (and Obito being Tobi really only affected Kakashi... Mighty Guy had forgotten him, and Naruto had never heard of the guy)

here are a few people Tobi could have been:

Tobi could have been who he claimed to be, Madara Uchiha.

Tobi could have been the Uchiha kagami.

Tobi could have been the Uchiha Izuna.

Tobi could have been a Uchiha that was belived to have died in battel prior to the Uchiha massacre, but somehow survived and chose not to go back to the village.

Tobi could have been a Uchiha that somehow survived the Uchiha massacre, and then chose to leave the village in pusuit of Itachi, or for at other reason.

Tobi could have been a random Shinobi who had his eyes replaced with Sharings that was "stolen/borrowed/bought/given" or in some other way aquired.

Tobi could have been a random Uchiha with a time traveling Ninjutsu.

Tobi could have been a random shinobi with a "stolen/borrowed/bought/given" sharingan and time traveling Ninjutsu.

Tobi could have been Madara/Kagami/Izune (or a future Sasuke) with a time traveling ninjutsu.



Yh tobi could have been a lot of people, I didn't want him to be obito but I knew he was because of this whole thread. Either way all my thoughts were right as it was him.




I most Deffenetly would not have been happy about that, though what he should have done was not making Obito Tobi and everything would have been fine...

and the way you describe would be extream trolling and would have been ever worse than how it was actually done, but that does not change the fact that Kishimoto was indeed Trolling and chosing to **** up the timeline instead of realizing that his original idea (Obito being Tobi) was not only moronic, but also boring and it actually ended up hurting the story! Kishimoto have been trying ever sins the Tobi reveal to dig himself out of that gigantic plot hole he made when he made Obito Tobi... And led me tell you, he aint out of it yet!



I was nodding and agreeing truely this intire section of your post untill I came apun this:



When exactly did Obito had the power to do something about it? when he said that people that abandon their comarades are scum? or when he got crushed by the huge boulder?

Ohh!! You ment when it was Tobi doing stuff? well that could just as well have been a other character, this in no way indicated what so ever that Obito is Tobi and sure it showes Tobi's resolve about his plan, but it in no way indicated that Obito must have been Tobi. (and therefor it's null and void!) (I could have used the exact same arguement to try and prove the theory that Tobi is Sasuke with a time traveling Ninjutsu from the future... and it would have given my theory (a theory I don't believe in btw) just as much credits as it did to the "Obito is Tobi theory"

and this:



First of all diden't Tobi state that Nagoto not only agreed with his "real plan" but also did all he could to make it a reality? and it could just as well have been a other character than Obito having that plan.



the thoery was ludacrus at the beginning, and you know what? it still is... Even now a ½ year after Tobi was revealed...


Nope I actually had my very own personal theory which mean sense to the story people who read it agreed it was plausible but yh 95% of theories I read were retarded and I was like why can't people see it how I do. My theory was about 70% right.



I just read true your "real links" that backes your theory, and I just don't see those Links, most of them are insignificant, circumstantial, some can even be instantly ignored and some support mulitiable theories, it's only just prior to the Tobi reveal anyone could say that Obito might actually be Tobi and have ended up not sounding like a retard (I really hope this doesent offend you! because it's not ment as a insult!)




Some of them I agree but I have made threads in the past which involved a theory and links and it actually made many people believe it was "possible"




Well he sure did a mighty good job at that! The theory is still filled with Plot holes and the only way I can see Kishimoto fixing it is by giving Obito a time traveling Ninjutsu...


Or maybe Kishimoto should just have realized that his original idea (Obito being Tobi) no longer wore compateable with the way the story and plot of Naruto had evolved? And by him going on with it, he actually ended up hurting the story!


(Note to everyone/anyone who reads this post! This post took sligtly more than 5 hours to write! and like a ½ hour to get all the quotes right)