[YY] Yin Release

[Reborn]

I would agree with you on all aspects minus size. Altering the overall size of a technique would be stretch. You wouldn't be able to have a kunai sized projectile turn into a meteor or something like that.

Though you're right in other regards. You could turn fire completely gaseous while it maintains its heat, albeit the movement of the gas may be a little more susceptible to being blown away by the wind. You could remove the feeling of heat from fire, however, until direct contact is made. The one thing I would say to be weary on is, by changing the properties too dramatically, you could remove too much of what constitutes the element in question. Remove or replace too many sensations that would otherwise classify fire as fire and you may no longer be dealing with an augmented fire release technique. I have two questions for you, one regarding the wording in this technique and another about how you would use it.

First question: See the following quote "The end resulting technique is neutral to all basic elemental natures."

In relation to an element that would ordinarily be weak to the element you're using (let's use water and fire) would the usage of this technique in turn mean water = fire or would the technique still be greater or would the technique be double effective against water?

Second question: I'm going to give you...two techniques and I want you to tell me how you could use this technique in conjunction with them to change their general properties, other than simply reversing the general tangibility of them.

(Raiton: Chidori Senbon) - Lightning Release: One Thousand Birds Needle
Type: Offensive
Rank: A
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra: 30
Damage: 60
Description: The user reshapes the Chidori in their hand into the form of countless senbon which are shot with a simple hand movement towards the target. The senbons are extremely precise and have the same numbing and paralyzing effects as Chidori, carrying enormous speed. Because the technique requires no handseals and is done with simple hand movements, its extremely hard to avoid while in short range and quite dangerous to counter due to the precision attacks it can be used to perform.

(Doton: Fukusuu no Dorosandan) - Earth Release: Multiple Mudshot Technique
Type: Offensive
Rank: B
Range: Short-Long
Chakra: 20
Damage: 40
Description: This jutsu is basically a widespread version of the Mudshot Technique; allowing the user to fire at multiple targets.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I would agree with you on all aspects minus size. Altering the overall size of a technique would be stretch. You wouldn't be able to have a kunai sized projectile turn into a meteor or something like that.

Though you're right in other regards. You could turn fire completely gaseous while it maintains its heat, albeit the movement of the gas may be a little more susceptible to being blown away by the wind. You could remove the feeling of heat from fire, however, until direct contact is made. The one thing I would say to be weary on is, by changing the properties too dramatically, you could remove too much of what constitutes the element in question. Remove or replace too many sensations that would otherwise classify fire as fire and you may no longer be dealing with an augmented fire release technique. I have two questions for you, one regarding the wording in this technique and another about how you would use it.

First question: See the following quote "The end resulting technique is neutral to all basic elemental natures."

In relation to an element that would ordinarily be weak to the element you're using (let's use water and fire) would the usage of this technique in turn mean water = fire or would the technique still be greater or would the technique be double effective against water?

Second question: I'm going to give you...two techniques and I want you to tell me how you could use this technique in conjunction with them to change their general properties, other than simply reversing the general tangibility of them.

(Raiton: Chidori Senbon) - Lightning Release: One Thousand Birds Needle
Type: Offensive
Rank: A
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra: 30
Damage: 60
Description: The user reshapes the Chidori in their hand into the form of countless senbon which are shot with a simple hand movement towards the target. The senbons are extremely precise and have the same numbing and paralyzing effects as Chidori, carrying enormous speed. Because the technique requires no handseals and is done with simple hand movements, its extremely hard to avoid while in short range and quite dangerous to counter due to the precision attacks it can be used to perform.

(Doton: Fukusuu no Dorosandan) - Earth Release: Multiple Mudshot Technique
Type: Offensive
Rank: B
Range: Short-Long
Chakra: 20
Damage: 40
Description: This jutsu is basically a widespread version of the Mudshot Technique; allowing the user to fire at multiple targets.

Ah, that's a good point, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

First Answer: I imagine that would depend on rank. In the case of A-rank water vs A-rank fire and I use this technique to make the Water scalding hot, it would be neutral to the Fire. In the case of A-rank water vs S-rank fire, the water would become weak to the fire.

Second Answer: For the Chidori Senbon, I would use the technique to alter the sound of the jutsu to a pitch/frequency inaudible to people and the appearance of the technique so it would be transparent/impossible to see. That way, the small size of the senbon and their spread would be coupled with being inaudible and unseeable so that they would become extremely stealthy, like actual senbon.

For the Multiple Mudshot, I'd make the mud globules scorching hot. That way, their form would be more molten, allowing it to cling to opponents even better by burning into and melting the skin. Because of the mud's extreme stickiness, it'd be difficult to get the mud off, making the heat from it even more excruciating and deadly.

 

[Reborn]

Answer 1: Assuming consistent ranks; it does not matter how you change the property of the technique you use. You could, theoretically, completely alter the composition of an element entirely to make it something else entirely. Even if your technique would ordinarily be stronger or weaker to the opposing elemental technique it would become neutral the moment you apply this technique to it. Now, in some cases (when using a disadvantaged element against its weakness), this is desirable. On the opposite spectrum, however (using an advantaged element against an inferior element), this is a degradation in power. Regardless of how the properties are changed, the opposing technique is given equal playing ground. In order to come out on top you will need to start out using a technique that is at least a rank higher than whatever you're going up against and then apply the technique because you'll only cancel out if there is to be a clash. This is a flaw (that I'm currently attempting to rectify)

Answer 2: This is something that I saw with the technique when initially created by Scorps but hoped wouldn't be an issue when we vetted potential users. Though, you won Yin Permission from a tournament I believe, so you're outside the scope of my expectations of "responsible members." as the technique is now one could essentially do as you did and remove the properties that make a technique visible, audible, and accomplish much of the same feats as what a Hayabusa can do by erasing physical perception of a technique entirely, but with no consequences. You can obviously see the problem that this poses (another issue that needs to be addressed for the jutsu).

That being said, I'm going to render this jutsu in its current form null until edits come out. I know you can't use it right now anyway but this goes for all members, not just you. Though, I will allow you to discuss alternatives. Thus far, LoK and I have decided to limit the level of perceptual manipulation on this technique to prevent it from making techniques completely undetectable. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Answer 1: Assuming consistent ranks; it does not matter how you change the property of the technique you use. You could, theoretically, completely alter the composition of an element entirely to make it something else entirely. Even if your technique would ordinarily be stronger or weaker to the opposing elemental technique it would become neutral the moment you apply this technique to it. Now, in some cases (when using a disadvantaged element against its weakness), this is desirable. On the opposite spectrum, however (using an advantaged element against an inferior element), this is a degradation in power. Regardless of how the properties are changed, the opposing technique is given equal playing ground. In order to come out on top you will need to start out using a technique that is at least a rank higher than whatever you're going up against and then apply the technique because you'll only cancel out if there is to be a clash. This is a flaw (that I'm currently attempting to rectify)

Answer 2: This is something that I saw with the technique when initially created by Scorps but hoped wouldn't be an issue when we vetted potential users. Though, you won Yin Permission from a tournament I believe, so you're outside the scope of my expectations of "responsible members." as the technique is now one could essentially do as you did and remove the properties that make a technique visible, audible, and accomplish much of the same feats as what a Hayabusa can do by erasing physical perception of a technique entirely, but with no consequences. You can obviously see the problem that this poses (another issue that needs to be addressed for the jutsu).

That being said, I'm going to render this jutsu in its current form null until edits come out. I know you can't use it right now anyway but this goes for all members, not just you. Though, I will allow you to discuss alternatives. Thus far, LoK and I have decided to limit the level of perceptual manipulation on this technique to prevent it from making techniques completely undetectable. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

Well, I suppose the matter is a bit complicated. I can see how rendering a jutsu completely unable to be perceived can be problematic/considered abuse. My initial thought towards it is that Yin is supposed to be one of the "top-tier abilities," having a lot of "broken" aspects to it, which is why it's so rare relative to the RP and how restricted getting it is. So, something like that didn't strike me so much as OP as it was "Well, it's something like Yin, what do you expect?" Also, I think it is notable how common sensory has become. Whether it be the the canon version or the various CJs or CC-given sensory, it's a lot of it out there. So making a jutsu impossible to see and hear might not be as big a problem with all the extrasensory abilities we got out there.

For the sake of balance, if something must be done, then I suggest limiting one aspect of perception. Making it unable to heard, or seen, but never both.

 

[Reborn]

You're essentially saying the nature of top tier skills possess broken attributes but then contradict yourself and say that's not necessarily OP in your eyes. Those terms are almost synonymous. Even though it is inevitable to have broken entities, we don't (or shouldn't) go out of our way to design em that way.

Your suggestion is literally what LoK and I suggested prior to me posting this.

At this point you really only have four techniques left to learn; 5 elements illusion, Hungry Ghost and Phantom Dragons, and the Hands of Sloth. I'll give you the option of which you'd like to learn about first. I will note to you that there is a caveat to Ghost and Dragon. There will be edits based upon Lili-Chwan's suggested innovations of the technique. Everything else is pretty much set in stone.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're essentially saying the nature of top tier skills possess broken attributes but then contradict yourself and say that's not necessarily OP in your eyes. Those terms are almost synonymous. Even though it is inevitable to have broken entities, we don't (or shouldn't) go out of our way to design em that way.

Your suggestion is literally what LoK and I suggested prior to me posting this.

At this point you really only have four techniques left to learn; 5 elements illusion, Hungry Ghost and Phantom Dragons, and the Hands of Sloth. I'll give you the option of which you'd like to learn about first. I will note to you that there is a caveat to Ghost and Dragon. There will be edits based upon Lili-Chwan's suggested innovations of the technique. Everything else is pretty much set in stone.

I'm saying it's a multi-faceted issue. One thing to consider is that high tier abilities such as this are generally forgiven for having an OPed streak because it's high tier. Shinra Tensei being nigh unblockable and Bijuu getting a passive +30 are examples. Another thing that's true about using Yin in this way is that sensory abilities are a common meta against it. Considered solely in a vacuum, it's OP enough to be broken, but in respects to the multitude of abilities available, the brokenness becomes less of a factor. So that, plus the fact that it's a high tier ability, both contribute to it having less potential to be received negatively.

In that case, I think it's best we do Hands of the Sloth and 5 Elements Illusion, then the other two with hopes the edits are finalized by then.

 

[Reborn]

(Inton: Gogyou Gen) - Yin Release: 5 Elements Illusion

Spoiler

Type: Supplementary
Rank: S
Range: N/A
Chakra Cost: N/A (+50)
Damage: N/A
Description: This technique allows the user to combine their elemental chakra with Yin Release in order to create stronger, more potent genjutsu. When the user casts a genjutsu, rather than using their raw chakra they will use one of the basic elemental natures, thus increasing the potency of the jutsu. The jutsu increases in strength by one rank and due to the massive amount of chakra used, the jutsu can penetrate through any deterrent against genjutsu. By using nature chakra rather than raw chakra, the properties of the genjutsu change in accordance to that nature and become stronger. For example, using Crushing Snake Constriction with Fire Release chakra would make the snakes appear, feel, and sound as though they were on fire. As well, the technique would follow the rules of elemental genjutsu. The user is free to alter the effects of a genjutsu within reason as long as the primary effects remain the same.
Note: Can only be used 5 times per battle.
Note: Cannot be used on techniques above S-rank.
Note: Yin Release masters can use advanced elements and CE

The coveted elemental genjutsu. Is there anything you don't immediately understand? Ask any questions now before I proceed.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No, no questions about this.

 

[Reborn]

( Kokuangyo no Jutsu ) - Bringer-of-Darkness Technique

Spoiler

Rank: A
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 30
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user makes one handseal, causing the opponent to believe they have been trapped in a world of infinite darkness, where their sense of sight is useless. It is capable of affecting multiple targets within range. However, it does not negate their other senses.

Combined with 5 Elements Illusion using Water Release

1. Explain how you'd use this combination appropriately
2. Tell me the overall jutsu rank
3. Tell all the basic elemental counters via full body surge
4. For shits and giggles since I want to see your answer; tell where Yang would exist in all genjutsu. Yes, I said Yang.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Bringer of Darkness+5 Elements Genjutsu=Instead of surrounding the affected in darkness, the illusion would cause them to experience the sensation of being submerged underwater, such as being within an ocean. Their vision would remain obstructed, being unable to see through murky water rather than their vision being blocked by darkness. I want to say they'd also experience being wet, but the original Genjutsu only affects sight, no other senses, so I feel like them feeling wet might be a reach.

2. Overall rank would be S-rank elemental Genjutsu, following Water as its nature.

3. An S-rank body surge of Earth-natured chakra would dispel the Genjutsu because the nature of the Gen is now Water and Earth is naturally strong to Water.

4. Yang Release relates to the body, so I'm guessing the Yang aspect in all Genjutsu is the ability for illusions to produce physical sensations. For example, that custom Genjutsu that gives one a fear of the outdoors can cause the body to react with physiological responses that make up a panic attack, like sweating or heavy breathing. The snake constriction Genjutsu causes the body's muscles to lock up and physical movement becomes impossible.

 

[Reborn]

I'd personally say the sensation of being "wet" is within reasonable parameters. Now, if you wanted them to feel the sensation of drowning or hindered movement from the submersion, that would be a different story.

Your second two answers are correct.

However, your last answer is assuming the genjutsu necessarily causes physiological reactions. What about techniques like Bringer of Darkness or False Surroundings where a single sense is affected? In the absense of induced physical reaction, where is the Yang?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yeah, that's why I was hesitant about thinking that was permissible. That seemed like something people would abuse into saying "You drowning now."

When I said physical senses, I meant the basic five. Sight, taste, smell, touch, and hearing all have some kind of physical component to them to generate the sense, like light hitting the eye or sound waves vibrating bones in the ear, etc. If that's not it, then I don't know the answer.

 

[Reborn]

So the part with genjutsu that is physical/Yang related is the fact you need to go through physical means to induce the spirit.

If we look at basic genjutsu and how it was explained early on; the interaction of the user's chakra with the brain to affect the senses of their opponent is produced physically. It wasn't until later on the spirit itself became involved in gen explanation. In the case of this technique (5 Elements Illusion) the use of the five natures on top of what I just explained is the Yang portion of this technique.

I'm going to move onto the next two techniques since I am currently using them against Ian. They were recently updated so unless you have any questions move onto the stuff below and give it a read.

(Inton: Gaki no Jutsu) - Yin Release: Hungry Ghost Technique
Type: Supplementary
Rank: S
Range: N/A
Chakra Cost: N/A (+50)
Damage: N/A
Description: Hungry Ghost is a spiritual parasite created through the user’s Yin Release chakra. When using an elemental jutsu, the user will form the ram hand seal to seal the hungry ghost within their technique. Sealing the hungry ghost inside one’s technique happens within the same timeframe as their elemental technique. When the user’s technique clashes with another technique, the parasitic Yin Chakra will eat away at the chakra within the technique, weakening it by one rank. Once the hungry ghost consumes foreign chakra it is released and immediately attaches itself to the source of the foreign chakra (the opponent). From there, the parasite continues to eat away at the enemy’s chakra every time they use techniques (all techniques reduce in rank and power by 1 degree). Once the Hungry Ghost is released, its tether is immediate and cannot be blocked or circumvented by ordinary means. The effects of Hungry Ghost last for 4 turns.
Note: Can only be used 5 times per battle and cannot be used on the same target more than twice.
Note: Surges or Barriers that utilize Yin, Yang, or Yin-Yang chakra can break or prevent the tethering of the Hungry Ghost.
Note: Yin Release master can apply this technique to advanced elements and CE
Note: Hungry Ghost can only be used on S-rank techniques and below.

(Inton: Dai Mugen Ryu) - Yin Release: Great Phantom Dragons
Type: Offensive/Defensive
Rank: S
Range: Short - Long
Chakra Cost: 150
Damage: 80 (per dragon) | 100 (for multi-element)
Description: A more powerful version of “Yin Release Hungry Ghost Technique.” Rather than the user arbitrarily adding their Yin Release chakra to a specific technique, the user will create a number of large, elemental dragons using any of the basic elements plus their Yin Release chakra. The user can create up to 5 serpentine dragons which, once created, can act independently according to the user’s will. Due to the user being able to manipulate multiple elements at once, each dragon created can be of a different nature. Each dragon will also have the absorption properties of “Hungry Ghost,” thus becoming even more dangerous. However, due to the massive amount of chakra and control needed to use these dragons, the user can only control two dragons at any given time. While the dragons are present, the user cannot use any Yang Release or elemental techniques that currently exist within the dragons. Yin Release masters can combine two natures together in order to make a multi-elemental dragon or even a dragon consisting of an advanced element or CE that they know. However, in doing so they will only be able to create two dragons.
Note: Can only be used 2 times per battle.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No questions about the previous stuff, a couple for the new ones.

1. The Hungry Ghost technique weakens the opponent's jutsu by one degree when struck/attached to the source. How does this work for jutsu that are boosted past the normal increments? For example, an A-rank is boosted by +15 to 75 damage, I assume under the effects of Hungry Ghost, it would be reduced by -20 to 55 damage.

2. The Phantom Dragons say they have the absorption effects of the Hungry Ghost technique. This doesn't include the attachment part, right, just the weakening of opponent's jutsu?

 

[Reborn]

1) Regarding techniques that have been boosted, this was something I faced in my fight as well since Ian had a Bijuu bio with a boost factor. Once a technique has been boosted, either passively or actively, the jutsu's power is now relative to the initial power + whatever the boost is.

Example: A-rank w/ +15

Before HG: 60+15 = 75 (high A-rank)

After HG: 40+15 = 55 (high B-rank)

So you are correct.

2) It includes everything. Once a dragon makes contact with the foreign chakra of an enemy, the enemy's jutsu will reduce in rank for whatever jutsu it came into contact with and all following techniques for the next 4 turns. However, it is worth noting that this only happens once. In other words, the moment a foreign technique interacts with one dragon, the other dragons will have no such ability to drain or de-buff techniques. They become ordinary S-rank elemental dragons.

This is because, otherwise, each dragon could theoretically layer the debuffing affects on top of each other reducing ranks up to 5 times. An S-rank subtracted 5 ranks is essentially nothing and an F-rank would be E-rank.

---

1) Let's say you use Hungry Ghost with a simple, non-lethal technique and it makes direct contact with an enemy, not an opposing technique what would happen? Would the HG tether itself and make all future techniques used by the enemy weaker or would there be no affect until a technique interacts with it?

2) Two Yin users are fighting against the same enemy at once (RIP them). Both Yin users have the ability to use HG and Phantom the specified number of times. Let's say one of the Yin users utilized HG or Phantom Dragons twice on that one opponent and no longer can affect them with that jutsu. If the second Yin user were to use either technique, would the enemy be affected?

3) Phantom Dragon make use of Hungry Ghost, does the use of the Phantom Dragon count to the total number of times a Yin user can use Hungry Ghost within an event?

4) There is no cool down at this time for Phantom Dragon (will rectify that given its broken nature). However, at this time and in the future you have the ability to use Phantom dragon and HG concurrently. If you used two separate instances of Phantom Dragon or HG simultaneously how would that affect the enemy if both made contact?

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Conceptually, I would say that the Hungry Ghost would still latch onto the opponent, due to making direct contact with the source of foreign chakra. But I think, based on the fact that the tech says quite a few times it happens when it clashes with techniques, that in usage, it has to be when two techniques are actually capable of clashing. I feel like this is to avoid people using Hungry Ghost with "instant spawn" techniques. For example, that one custom that creates a small flame on the opponent's clothing, or that wind jutsu that makes a dust storm around the battlefield, or various rain jutsu in the water list, or even something like Swamp of the Underworld that spawns directly below the opponent. That way, the meta offers a way to avoid being ensnared by the jutsu's effects.

2. I'm not sure tbh. This reminds me of when someone asked you in the discord chat a few days ago about the situation where someone uses a jutsu that can only be used once every two turns; would a clone be able to use it one turn later since it's a separate entity, or would it too be limited? I'm assuming that in the case of two Yin Release users, the ghosts would stack as they come from two completely separate people.

3. I would say that no, using Phantom Dragons wouldn't infringe on the usage of Hungry Ghost, but they wouldn't be able to stack still.

4. I would assume both would drain from jutsu, but only one would release a Hungry Ghost into the opponent(the HG obviously, the dragon would not).

 

[Reborn]

1) You're correct. The concept does support that this technique could work if the hosting technique makes direct contact with the enemy. However, the verbiage does require clashing techniques or externalized chakra for it to work. We don't want people to abuse the potential of the technique exactly how you said.

2) I'm in between what to decide on this. This was one of those questions where; I had an answer but then saw how broken it could be and I'm now unsure so we'll put a pin in it. There can be the argument for either which is why I want to have somebody else look it over.

3) Incorrect. This is something I decided upon revamping the two techniques. Because of the way they act and the fact that Phantom Dragons is just an elemental jutsu + HG (a non-generic technique), every use of Phantom Dragon would count as a use for HG.

4) They would not stack. I believe this would fall in the de-buffing rules. Once the first technique is drained, all subsequent techniques would lose a rank. Two uses at the same time would be useless.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Gotcha

2. Since you mentioned the debuffing rules, I feel like the two usages from separate people wouldn't stack.

3. Gotcha

4. Gotcha.

Only question I have is how big are the dragons? Realized a couple days ago it doesn't say.

 

[Reborn]

Regarding number 2, I talked about this with LoK and forgot what was decided. I think it was along the lines of only one instance working at a given time even if used by multiple users at once. I will verify.

Onto the last technique.

(Inton: Namakemono no Ude ) Yin Release: Hands of Sloth
Type: Supplementary/Offensive/Defensive
Rank: S
Range: Short – Mid
Chakra Cost: 100 (110 w/ YY: Hands of Sloth) -50 per turn
Damage: 80 (each hand)
Description: This technique gets its name from one of the deadliest sins, sloth. The user begins by clapping their hands and focusing their Yin Release chakra behind them. The user creates several chakra arms (up to 8) behind them which are spiritual in nature. They do not appear to the naked senses, only Sage Mode users, Rinnegan and other Yin-Yang Release users can detect these hands. The best way to describe this technique is in relation to Madara’s Boader Jail technique. The arms are capable of physically interacting with the world and attacking or defending against physical constructs. However, the user can freely turn them completely intangible if they wish to bypass physical obstacles. The base usage of this technique allows the user to attack or defend covertly by freely manipulating the invisible arms. However, in their second form the user can add the “properties of sloth” to the hands which are dejection, idleness, and sleep. Dejection is a loss of will and focus translated in causing a victim to lose coherent perception of the world around them and weaken their ability to defend against genjutsu. Idleness is a loss of action which is translated to a hampered ability to cast techniques. Sleep is a loss of consciousness which is translated in a comatose state brought about by the sealing of one’s spirit if they are not sufficiently healed. The third and final form of this technique is brought about when the user introduces their Yang Release chakra which essentially makes the hands quasi-sentient and self-sufficient without the user’s mental input.
Note: all Yin Release users can use the base form of this technique. Yin Release masters or Yin-Yang users can use the second form. The final form of this technique can only be used by Yin-Yang users with a Yin affinity.
Note: The properties of sloth are spiritually degenerating properties. The more a victim interacts with the hands the worse they become. When touched by the hands once, the victim enters dejection and becomes unable to deduce A-rank and above genjutsu and unable to break S-rank genjutsu by any means. When touched twice the victim enters idleness and they become unable to perform techniques within a single time-frame. When touched thrice, the victim’s mind is sealed over the course of 2 turns and they enter a genjutsu that renders them a mindless puppet to the user. The properties of sloth can only affect victims if the hands are tangible. Switching between tangibility and intangibility requires a move.
Note: Genjutsu specialists and other Yin-Yang users can resist the properties of sloth through the use of counter genjutsu or Yin Release techniques like Yin-Yang Mode’s Yin State.
Note: This technique can be used once per battle. While in use, the user cannot use any non-elemental ninjutsu, Yang Release, or Yin-Yang Release techniques.

generic filler "analyze so I don't actually have to explain shit till my next post" post

 

[Punk Hazard]

Pretty simple, the user creates several spiritual arms from their body forged from Yin Release. The arms are invisible to anyone who isn't a SM user, Yin-Yang User, or Rinnegan user. The arms can be intangible or tangible, and in the case of the latter, can induce spiritual/mental effects on the opponent when taken to the second stage. First contact reduces Genjutsu deduction and breaking skills, second contact completely removes ability to use shit in the same timeframe, and the third removes their mental capacities to the point that they become controllable puppets. My favorite one.