[YY] Yin for the Win

[Lili-Chwan]

These are hard to implement technique, because they're meant to "control" someone else's character, and that is technically godmodding in this RP. We can make rulings to simplify them, but I'm unsure if you'd like to change them that much. For example:

Jibakugan:

We can play with the notion of incomplete genjutsu, by letting the brain's innate plasticity to complete the illusion. This technique could appeal to the cerebal cortex responsible for thought and emotion processing, creating a strain in the brain that appeals to the user's negative emotions. What this results is making the opponent view the world in a sad and hateful manner, which makes them more susceptible to verbal and freeform manipulation. The user does not have to know what makes the opponent sad, or even events in their past that would make them feel such emotions, but one can impose a "Truthful" clause in the sense that, anything related to trauma, sadness and general hatefulness must be portrayed and declared to the user by the opponent. Like, mentioning the word "parents", "death", "enemies" etc will trigger a verbal diahrrea where the opponent reveals these intimate details of their character's history, for further manipulation.

Another thing that can be done is implement generic "manipulation" effects, like the user is so sad and hateful he's forbidden from using Defensive techniques, having to opt for Offensive techniques or damage dealing Supplementary techniques. His lack of proper rational thinking prevents the usage of chakra-efficient counter, thus the user is only able to counter a jutsu by using something 1 rank higher in elemental interaction ( like, the user can't neutralize a jutsu, A rank Fire vs B rank Wind, they have to overpower every jutsu that comes to them, within their capabilities ( S ranks can be neutralized ) ). And is more likely to take more damage in Forbidden technique usages.


Soulbane

We can do an incomplete genjutsu where we strain their facial recognition process, recreating a Prosopagnosia within the affected. The user does not need to know who their opponents perceive as enemies, because their brains complete the illusion themselves. Targets within this illusion won't be able to recognize people they perceive as friends, allies or relatively cooperative as such, and will instead shift to think of them as people to defeat at all cost. Because it's a perception genjutsu, they can see a friend as he is, they just don't perceive them as friends or someone they can ally with. This will invariably force a target to shift their attention away from the caster and towards their allies, either in the NW or summon allies, for example, throughout the duration of this technique. A clause can be made for paired partnership, where the user can select two targets that will be in a linked genjutsu where they'll first team up against common-enemies ( friends ) and then turn on eachother when successful.

Spoken Word:

Because this serves as an enhanced Interrogation, this can be used with knowledge of the target's history. The user will probe into the target's mind for events and emotions within the cahracter's psyche that he can use to manipulate. In my mind, this is a blank and dark room that, as the user continues to talk, will shift into giving illusions of the target's own psyche and story, to further implant the manipulation, for example, have the target see a baby and hold them in their arms, as he strikes an assailant with a kunai. While the baby could be part of the illusion, the assailant could be from a different memory, or even a generic memory. Due to the user's complete control of the illusion, one can shift the target between complete sensorial manipulation ( stasis, the target stands still trapped in their mind ) and selective sensorial manipulation ( where, if it benefits the user, the target's actions in their mind are mimicked in reality ). In the case I mention, a selective permission can have the target actually pull out a kunai in real life and attack an approaching ally, without the target ever knowing what he's doing. This means there's no actual metagame, because we're giving our targets a chance to react as they want, we're just selectively picking which actions are translated in reality as well, and that leads to partial manipulation befitting this genjutsu.

 

[Reborn]

These are hard to implement technique, because they're meant to "control" someone else's character, and that is technically godmodding in this RP. We can make rulings to simplify them, but I'm unsure if you'd like to change them that much. For example:

Jibakugan:

We can play with the notion of incomplete genjutsu, by letting the brain's innate plasticity to complete the illusion. This technique could appeal to the cerebal cortex responsible for thought and emotion processing, creating a strain in the brain that appeals to the user's negative emotions. What this results is making the opponent view the world in a sad and hateful manner, which makes them more susceptible to verbal and freeform manipulation. The user does not have to know what makes the opponent sad, or even events in their past that would make them feel such emotions, but one can impose a "Truthful" clause in the sense that, anything related to trauma, sadness and general hatefulness must be portrayed and declared to the user by the opponent. Like, mentioning the word "parents", "death", "enemies" etc will trigger a verbal diahrrea where the opponent reveals these intimate details of their character's history, for further manipulation.

Another thing that can be done is implement generic "manipulation" effects, like the user is so sad and hateful he's forbidden from using Defensive techniques, having to opt for Offensive techniques or damage dealing Supplementary techniques. His lack of proper rational thinking prevents the usage of chakra-efficient counter, thus the user is only able to counter a jutsu by using something 1 rank higher in elemental interaction ( like, the user can't neutralize a jutsu, A rank Fire vs B rank Wind, they have to overpower every jutsu that comes to them, within their capabilities ( S ranks can be neutralized ) ). And is more likely to take more damage in Forbidden technique usages.


Soulbane

We can do an incomplete genjutsu where we strain their facial recognition process, recreating a Prosopagnosia within the affected. The user does not need to know who their opponents perceive as enemies, because their brains complete the illusion themselves. Targets within this illusion won't be able to recognize people they perceive as friends, allies or relatively cooperative as such, and will instead shift to think of them as people to defeat at all cost. Because it's a perception genjutsu, they can see a friend as he is, they just don't perceive them as friends or someone they can ally with. This will invariably force a target to shift their attention away from the caster and towards their allies, either in the NW or summon allies, for example, throughout the duration of this technique. A clause can be made for paired partnership, where the user can select two targets that will be in a linked genjutsu where they'll first team up against common-enemies ( friends ) and then turn on eachother when successful.

Spoken Word:

Because this serves as an enhanced Interrogation, this can be used with knowledge of the target's history. The user will probe into the target's mind for events and emotions within the cahracter's psyche that he can use to manipulate. In my mind, this is a blank and dark room that, as the user continues to talk, will shift into giving illusions of the target's own psyche and story, to further implant the manipulation, for example, have the target see a baby and hold them in their arms, as he strikes an assailant with a kunai. While the baby could be part of the illusion, the assailant could be from a different memory, or even a generic memory. Due to the user's complete control of the illusion, one can shift the target between complete sensorial manipulation ( stasis, the target stands still trapped in their mind ) and selective sensorial manipulation ( where, if it benefits the user, the target's actions in their mind are mimicked in reality ). In the case I mention, a selective permission can have the target actually pull out a kunai in real life and attack an approaching ally, without the target ever knowing what he's doing. This means there's no actual metagame, because we're giving our targets a chance to react as they want, we're just selectively picking which actions are translated in reality as well, and that leads to partial manipulation befitting this genjutsu.

Since you're being antsy, I'll stay this conversation for now. What I believe I do for implementation of these will altering techniques is something along the lines of how I implemented the Yamanaka techniques. Impose forceful will alteration though with a window of opportunity for the plebeian member without genjutsu aptitude to defend against it. For now though, we're going to progress with more techniques.

To recap, we already went over 5 Elements Genjutsu. If you have any questions ask them now otherwise we'll go into

(Yinton: Ten ni henkō) - Yin Release: Change into Heaven
Type: Supplementary
Rank: S-Rank
Range: Short
Chakra cost: N/A (+70)
Damage points: N/A
Description: The user manipulates a technique of the basic 5 elements with Yin nature, allowing him to change its properties. Fire can become solid. Lightning can become tangible. The possibilities are as endless as is the users own imagination. The end resulting technique is neutral to all basic elemental natures. This doesn't consume time since its actually a skill applied to a technique used at the same time.
Note: Usable 4 times per battle

Use your Lili ways to break this technique apart and tell me what its capabilities are. This is one of the last contributions made by your former student.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Since you're being antsy, I'll stay this conversation for now. What I believe I do for implementation of these will altering techniques is something along the lines of how I implemented the Yamanaka techniques. Impose forceful will alteration though with a window of opportunity for the plebeian member without genjutsu aptitude to defend against it. For now though, we're going to progress with more techniques.

To recap, we already went over 5 Elements Genjutsu. If you have any questions ask them now otherwise we'll go into

(Yinton: Ten ni henkō) - Yin Release: Change into Heaven
Type: Supplementary
Rank: S-Rank
Range: Short
Chakra cost: N/A (+70)
Damage points: N/A
Description: The user manipulates a technique of the basic 5 elements with Yin nature, allowing him to change its properties. Fire can become solid. Lightning can become tangible. The possibilities are as endless as is the users own imagination. The end resulting technique is neutral to all basic elemental natures. This doesn't consume time since its actually a skill applied to a technique used at the same time.
Note: Usable 4 times per battle

Use your Lili ways to break this technique apart and tell me what its capabilities are. This is one of the last contributions made by your former student.

Okay so, hum... this is truly an Imagination Release technique. I see this technique as erasing all sorts of Elemental categories and focus on Elemental techniques as a whole, picking each elemental property and fuse them together to create all sorts of combinations. I think the user of this technique has to think of this skill as the Ultimate Nature Conversion Skill, as the only thing that this technique will maintain of the original technique it is applied to is Chakra Shape Manipulation, with those two skills being the pillars of all Elemental Ninjutsu. With that being said, I believe the neutrality clause and the high chakra cost do serve as self restricts quite nicely. Even if you pick all sorts of properties to go with your element, the end game will always be neutral. In fact, say there is an element weak to both Lightning and Fire, and I turn a Fire technique into an electric fireball, although using properties of two element stronger than the opposing technique, it will actually lose it's elemental superiority. Thus this technique does not serve to empower or amplify, but to give a much more interesting flexibility and versatility to our battle style.


Anyway, I could go along enlisting basic properties like Heat, Weight, Density, States of Matter, etc, but those are pretty much simple conversations. I'm much more interesting in knowing the limits of this technique. First of all, do we restrict ourselves to currently approved elements? As in, if it is an element whose property we've already acknowledged in the RP, then we can convert into it. It might seem small, but will still prevent us from turning this element into a 0K superfluid, or into a blackhole supermass, and all sorts of Bosen, Quanti-Physical properties that we haven't acknowledged directly.

Secondly, Alchemy should be completely within the table, but can we alter the molecular structure of the element so completely that we change it's kinetic and potential energy, as well as give them Magnetic and Radioactive properties? To facilitate, and to go along with my previous question, we could always pick and chose from currently approved Passive effects from approved elements and techniques, say, I turn my Fire technique into Panthalassic Water's Radioactivity property. Essentially we could even turn the molecular structure of the element to turn our elements into known substances like venoms, toxins and other infectious elements, and pick approved effects to add on.

Thirdly, the lesser "elemental" properties, and more onto properties of chakra itself. Starting from basic, Stickiness and Invisibility, and then moving on to Chakra Draining and even Time/Space. Could we teleport our Fireballs if we Heaven their physical attributes? it is, indeed, a property of chakra. Even within T/S there's Sealing, and Rejection ( Barrier ), and even Sensing or Genjutsu Induction, by proximity, inhalation, contact, and all sorts of sensorial processing of chakra to grant effects. Would this be outside the realm of this technique?

I mean, inherently, we already have the Chakra Shape Manipulation restriction, and even if we turn something into Radioactivity, or something infectious, the area of effect would still be relatively constrained, but there's a lot of interesting physical properties that would still make this technique quite... hum... game breaking.

 

[Reborn]

Your line of thinking annoys me in a pleasant way if that makes any sense. You really let your imagination run away with you when you read and interpret techniques.

I believe the neutrality clause and the high chakra cost do serve as self restricts quite nicely. Even if you pick all sorts of properties to go with your element, the end game will always be neutral.

I disagree with this sentiment. The loss of superiority is something I discussed with Chris about editing out simply for the fact that: even if we considered every option you mentioned in your analysis, by the laws of our RP our techniques of equivalent rank will be able to combat it. The chakra consumed for this technique does not make the technique any more powerful. Rank and power remain the same and you use an additional move simply to change properties that. Now, a fair number of the things you mentioned are well outside of the scope of this technique and that's why everything leads to this technique being more wasteful than useful. A chunk of chakra, loss of elemental superiority, and no seeming benefit beyond the alteration of properties, which do hold limitations. So something, somewhere needs to give imo.

You say it gives an interesting flexibility, however, you have to remember everything about the technique's core shape and size remain the same. If you spew a truck sized fireball at somebody, that size and shape is going to remain the same no matter what you change in it. You can't make it larger, smaller or make it shaped anything other than that sphere.

As in, if it is an element whose property we've already acknowledged in the RP, then we can convert into it. It might seem small, but will still prevent us from turning this element into a 0K superfluid, or into a blackhole supermass, and all sorts of Bosen, Quanti-Physical properties that we haven't acknowledged directly.

The technique does not specify properties related to any specific elements it merely states that you alter the existing properties of the technique you use, which happens to be an elemental technique. A fire ball which is hot, plasma like and high energy has the properties of fire. With this technique you alter that so that the fireball has other properties on top of or excluding what it already has.

So, essentially whatever you understand the technique's properties to be is what you have roam to remove at your leisure. As well, whatever else you can conceive to add or replace to the technique without altering the size and shape of it, is what you have to add. That being said, the implications of what I just said requires you to be responsible. Example, say you have a custom that is otherwise harmless that we have allowed to manifest on or near your opponent. We did so because of the benign or supplementary function of the technique that does not allow you to one shot your opponent with something they cannot possibly defend against in most circumstances. Using this technique to alter the nature creates a loophole. The previously approved technique, benign on its own, becomes enhanced with this technique which theoretically allows you to change pretty much anything about it. Using your black hole example, you could manifest one directly on your opponent should you have the means to with any other elemental technique.

So, rather than me tell you what is and isn't capable, tell me what you see as a responsible "rule of thumb" for this techniques property manipulation?

Everything in your third stance regarding sealing, ST, etc, is a no.

Second stance, unless you're a medic I'd stay away from the toxic, poisonous, and/or infectious

 

[Lili-Chwan]

Your line of thinking annoys me in a pleasant way if that makes any sense. You really let your imagination run away with you when you read and interpret techniques.



I disagree with this sentiment. The loss of superiority is something I discussed with Chris about editing out simply for the fact that: even if we considered every option you mentioned in your analysis, by the laws of our RP our techniques of equivalent rank will be able to combat it. The chakra consumed for this technique does not make the technique any more powerful. Rank and power remain the same and you use an additional move simply to change properties that. Now, a fair number of the things you mentioned are well outside of the scope of this technique and that's why everything leads to this technique being more wasteful than useful. A chunk of chakra, loss of elemental superiority, and no seeming benefit beyond the alteration of properties, which do hold limitations. So something, somewhere needs to give imo.

You say it gives an interesting flexibility, however, you have to remember everything about the technique's core shape and size remain the same. If you spew a truck sized fireball at somebody, that size and shape is going to remain the same no matter what you change in it. You can't make it larger, smaller or make it shaped anything other than that sphere.



The technique does not specify properties related to any specific elements it merely states that you alter the existing properties of the technique you use, which happens to be an elemental technique. A fire ball which is hot, plasma like and high energy has the properties of fire. With this technique you alter that so that the fireball has other properties on top of or excluding what it already has.

So, essentially whatever you understand the technique's properties to be is what you have roam to remove at your leisure. As well, whatever else you can conceive to add or replace to the technique without altering the size and shape of it, is what you have to add. That being said, the implications of what I just said requires you to be responsible. Example, say you have a custom that is otherwise harmless that we have allowed to manifest on or near your opponent. We did so because of the benign or supplementary function of the technique that does not allow you to one shot your opponent with something they cannot possibly defend against in most circumstances. Using this technique to alter the nature creates a loophole. The previously approved technique, benign on its own, becomes enhanced with this technique which theoretically allows you to change pretty much anything about it. Using your black hole example, you could manifest one directly on your opponent should you have the means to with any other elemental technique.

So, rather than me tell you what is and isn't capable, tell me what you see as a responsible "rule of thumb" for this techniques property manipulation?

Everything in your third stance regarding sealing, ST, etc, is a no.

Second stance, unless you're a medic I'd stay away from the toxic, poisonous, and/or infectious

I don't like rule of thumbs, can I skip that homework? I think I pretty much understand what you mean by responsibly restricting myself in the usage of heaven.

And yeah, I am a medic xD

 

[Reborn]

I don't like rule of thumbs, can I skip that homework? I think I pretty much understand what you mean by responsibly restricting myself in the usage of heaven.

And yeah, I am a medic xD

No you can't skip this homework. We're setting the precedents here so that others don't get any funny ideas. Do this homework and we move onto the next jutsu in my next post.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

No you can't skip this homework. We're setting the precedents here so that others don't get any funny ideas. Do this homework and we move onto the next jutsu in my next post.

Fine. If it is a property of a basic elemental release, then it can be manipulated through this technique. Thats a good rule of thumb.

 

[Reborn]

I guess that's as good an answer as I'm going to get out of you so I suppose we'll move on.

Now we're going to move onto the techniques you believe to be inefficient; Hungry Ghosts and Phantom Dragons. Your original gripe was that the cost of the jutsu outweighed the benefit of its effects. You mentioned how Water Release techniques (through customs only) accomplished the same feats. Though, with water release techniques you possess the disadvantage of earth release being virtually immune to whatever chakra sapping effects there were. These techniques indiscriminately reduce the rank of any technique they encounter regardless of nature.

Though, you last told me you'd think about how to rectify the inefficiency you saw so we'll begin there. What are you suggestions for improvement over these two techniques?

(Inton: Gaki no Jutsu) - Yin Release: Hungry Ghost Technique

Spoiler

Type: Supplementary
Rank: S
Range: N/A
Chakra Cost: N/A (+50)
Damage: N/A
Description: When using an elemental technique the user will add their Yin Release chakra into the technique in order to give the technique absorption properties. When the user’s technique clashes with another technique, the latter will have a portion of its chakra absorbed during the clash, weakening the jutsu’s strength by one rank. Thus, whenever this technique is used, the opponent’s technique dips in power by one rank during the clash. For example if the user decides to use an A-ranked fire technique with Hungry Ghost, and the opponent uses an A-ranked lightning technique, the latter will become B-rank after its chakra has been absorbed. All rules for jutsu clash after the absorption take place accordingly. The absorption of chakra is independent of the user’s actual elemental chakra and thus all techniques are susceptible to it with the exception of other Yin/Yang and Yin-Yang Release and Fuinjutsu techniques.
Note: Can only be used 5 times.
Note: Can only be used on S rank and below jutsu.
Note: Yin Release masters can apply this technique to advanced elements and CE.

(Inton: Dai Mugen Ryu) - Yin Release: Great Phantom Dragons

Spoiler

Type: Offensive/Defensive
Rank: S
Range: Short - Long
Chakra Cost: 150
Damage: 80 (per dragon) | 100 (for multi-element)
Description: A more powerful version of “Yin Release Hungry Ghost Technique.” Rather than the user arbitrarily adding their Yin Release chakra to a specific technique, the user will create a number of large, elemental dragons using any of the basic elements plus their Yin Release chakra. The user can create up to 5 serpentine dragons which, once created, can act independently according to the user’s will. Due to the user being able to manipulate multiple elements at once, each dragon created can be of a different nature. Each dragon will also have the absorption properties of “Hungry Ghost,” thus becoming even more dangerous. However, due to the massive amount of chakra and control needed to use these dragons, the user can only control two dragons at any given time. While the dragons are present, the user cannot use any Yang Release or elemental techniques that currently exist within the dragons. Yin Release masters can combine two natures together in order to make a multi-elemental dragon or even a dragon consisting of an advanced element or CE that they know. However, in doing so they will only be able to create two dragons.
Note: Can only be used 2 times per battle.

the nature of these two techniques as Yin are their draining property. Even if you want to argue that water release did this before, water and Yin are tethered together in their nature if you look into Daoist canon. Your task for these two techniques is to present an efficient alternative.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

It's as simple as introducing a parasitic effect to Hungry Ghosts, so that not only the technique that was hit with the dragons get the rank debunk, but also any chakra entity tethered to the technique, aka the user. The hungry ghost will follow the transient chakra lingering behind after the process of materializing the ninjutsu and will infest the host with their Yin sapping powers. Visually, you could darken the chakra, or asphyxiate the chakra of the host while the technique remains in effect and every technique used afterwards will have the debunk effect, until the end of the Ghost's life or the purging of the host's chakra system.

And I like this physical, or rather spiritual parasitic tether, and I'll probably explore it further afterwards.

 

[Reborn]

It's as simple as introducing a parasitic effect to Hungry Ghosts, so that not only the technique that was hit with the dragons get the rank debunk, but also any chakra entity tethered to the technique, aka the user. The hungry ghost will follow the transient chakra lingering behind after the process of materializing the ninjutsu and will infest the host with their Yin sapping powers. Visually, you could darken the chakra, or asphyxiate the chakra of the host while the technique remains in effect and every technique used afterwards will have the debunk effect, until the end of the Ghost's life or the purging of the host's chakra system.

And I like this physical, or rather spiritual parasitic tether, and I'll probably explore it further afterwards.

So you're saying, upon contact with a source of chakra (be it a technique or the user of techniques directly) have the sapping ability translate to all future techniques for a specified duration of time? That sounds like a reasonably healthy addition if reasonably restricted. I'll make a draft.

As they are now, you're free to use them, we'll return to those two, as well as Change into Heaven, once I edit those. The only thing you have left to learn is the Hands of Sloth.

(Inton: Namakemono no Ude ) Yin Release: Hands of Sloth

Spoiler

Type: Supplementary/Offensive/Defensive
Rank: S
Range: Short – Mid
Chakra Cost: 100 (110 w/ YY: Hands of Sloth) -50 per turn
Damage: 80 (each hand)
Description: This technique gets its name from one of the deadliest sins, sloth. The user begins by clapping their hands and focusing their Yin Release chakra behind them. The user creates several chakra arms (up to 8) behind them which are spiritual in nature. They do not appear to the naked senses, only Sage Mode users, Rinnegan and other Yin-Yang Release users can detect these hands. The best way to describe this technique is in relation to Madara’s Boader Jail technique. The arms are capable of physically interacting with the world and attacking or defending against physical constructs. However, the user can freely turn them completely intangible if they wish to bypass physical obstacles. The base usage of this technique allows the user to attack or defend covertly by freely manipulating the invisible arms. However, in their second form the user can add the “properties of sloth” to the hands which are dejection, idleness, and sleep. Dejection is a loss of will and focus translated in causing a victim to lose coherent perception of the world around them and weaken their ability to defend against genjutsu. Idleness is a loss of action which is translated to a hampered ability to cast techniques. Sleep is a loss of consciousness which is translated in a comatose state brought about by the sealing of one’s spirit if they are not sufficiently healed. The third and final form of this technique is brought about when the user introduces their Yang Release chakra which essentially makes the hands quasi-sentient and self-sufficient without the user’s mental input.
Note: all Yin Release users can use the base form of this technique. Yin Release masters or Yin-Yang users can use the second form. The final form of this technique can only be used by Yin-Yang users with a Yin affinity.
Note: The properties of sloth are spiritually degenerating properties. The more a victim interacts with the hands the worse they become. When touched by the hands once, the victim enters dejection and becomes unable to deduce A-rank and above genjutsu and unable to break S-rank genjutsu by any means. When touched twice the victim enters idleness and they become unable to perform techniques within a single time-frame. When touched thrice, the victim’s mind is sealed over the course of 2 turns and they enter a genjutsu that renders them a mindless puppet to the user. The properties of sloth can only affect victims if the hands are tangible. Switching between tangibility and intangibility requires a move.
Note: Genjutsu specialists and other Yin-Yang users can resist the properties of sloth through the use of counter genjutsu or Yin Release techniques like Yin-Yang Mode’s Yin State.
Note: This technique can be used once per battle. While in use, the user cannot use any non-elemental ninjutsu, Yang Release, or Yin-Yang Release techniques.

I'm not sure if you've seen this one yet since this was a later addition to the jutsu. Thoughts, impressions, uses, etc.

Also, just a note you won't have rights to Yin Specialty or anything until after we settle the other techniques, but since I'm dealing with a lot of techniques and checks rn these are well on the radar, it shouldn't affect you much.