rin killed herself. she ran inot an attack purposefully. like yahiko did
I'm well aware that Kakashi didn't actually kill Rin, or atleast he cannot be held responsible for her death. But according to your logic, intention or misconception have no meaning. The only object of concern are the actions. So if we see the whole scenario by your narrow visioned eyes, then it was something like this: RIN WAS PIERCED BY KAKASHI'S CHIDORI. So Kakashi did kill Rin,
according to your crap logic.
anyone with a conscience woudl expose the truth about the governments corruption
Anyone with a decent conscience wouldn't purposely do anything wrong. And exposing the government was a wrong deed. With the exception of Danzo, Hiruzen, the chief member of the government, was completely against the Uchiha clan massacre, but when the negotiations were in vain,
Hiruzen reluctantly agreed. Exposing the truth behind the incident wouldn't damage the image of the government whatsoever. But, if it really did, then Hiruzen's character would be ruined, who genuinely cared about Konoha and its villagers. But it would definitely destroy the reputation of the Uchihas either way for trying to commit such a horrific deed. Tobirama's reaction was completely natural when he heard about the Uchiha's fate, and any villager would have thought the same way. So both ways, exposing the government wasn't a prudent decision.
so if a government invaded your country and was planning on seizing weapons that you and your neighbours own, would you help them get them faster than they otherwise would have if yo hadnt helped out? just for the sake of knowing trivial aspects about their army since they will never trust you with anything important?
If a country in opposition (Akatsuki) invaded my own country (Five Nations) to seize weapons (bijuus), and the government of my country (Five Kages) pretty much knows that they (Akatsuki) are after the weapons (bijuus), and I (Itachi) already made a deal with them (Akatsuki) to not endanger my city (Konoha), they wouldn't attack my city in return for me helping them out (although I wouldn't be a significant addition to their army).
That means I'm protecting one city of my country at the cost of NOTHING. Isn't that genius? And my stupid government (Five Kages) and my stupid army (shinobis) try to obstruct all this situation by killing their army (Akatsuki members) and not doing anything to prevent their access to the weapons (bijuus),
they (Akatsuki) ultimately seize all the weapons (bijuus) by penetrating through their defenses, although at the price of thousands of soldiers (Akatsuki members),
but they still succeed, and the opposing government (Akatsuki inner circle) doesn't care about the death of their army (Akatsuki members) as long as they have accomplished their target to obtain weapons (bijuus). And if I (Itachi) were to stand against my army (Akatsuki), I would wipe out a couple more soldiers (Akatsuki members) at the cost of my own death, but that doesn't really matter as they will still acquire the weapons (bijuus) anyway because if their is any hindrance then the government (Akatsuki inner circle) will come to action or add a bit more soldiers (rogue shinobis) to their army to terminate the job, and most importantly I will stupidly open the gates for them to destroy my city (Konoha) by ceasing the pact.
no they were thougth of as the pride of the nation, which is why itachi covering up the coup was so important to him
Itachi covering up the coup was important to preclude pessimistic thoughts regarding the Uchiha clan from arising in people's minds. That doesn't necessarily mean the Uchihas shared a good reputation among people. The Uchiha clan was a prestigious clan, no doubt, and they weren't really hated by anyone (although they hated everyone). But everyone in the village was suspicious of them especially after the Kyuubi attack, which was the reason for their isolation and the source of the build up of their hatred. Obito also said that no one trusted the Uchihas. Itachi covering up the coup was because the Uchihas would practically confirm the villager's suspicions regarding them and will ruin their image. So, Itachi not only maintained their stature by hiding their truth, but actually upsurged their reputation, by creating sympathy and honor for the Uchihas in the people's hearts. Killing two birds with one stone. Wasn't that genius?
doesnt matter. itachi owes it to his family to at least let the public know the truth.
The best you can owe you family is people remembering them with good words after their death. Itachi did that very well.
the uchiha clan's reputation is what they want it to be. itachi is surpeemly arrogant to choose how he wants to remember them over how they actually are. its delusional and runnning from reality. itachi has no right to make such a deicsion. if hiruzen made the deicsion then ok. he at least has the authority and wisdom to make the deicsion to hide the truth much like gordon in dark knight.but they need to tell everyone to PREVENT SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENING AGAIN.
@bold If the coup d'etat would have taken place, the Uchihas reputation would be the exact opposite of what
they wanted. If would damage the Fire Nation as a whole. Moreover, Itachi gave them the honor
they wanted, because he knew that they would be despised if things happened according to the them.
And I already told you that Itachi didn't choose it on his own will. He shaped his decision to give them the honor they wanted in the context of people's way of thinking.
@underlined The clan is eliminated and the case is over. How does him telling anyone about the reality change things or "prevent something like this from happening again"? Itachi's whole purpose behind erasing his clan was "to prevent something like this happening again".
again safety of innocents > uchiha reputation.
Why not do both at the same time like Itachi did, basically killing two birds with one stone? Wasn't that genius?
you know what damages their reputation? being killed off easly by one of their own.
Not really, because everyone knows that they were ambushed and slayed in unconsciousness as they were sleeping. Even shinobi as mighty as Madara or Nagato could have been killed that way.
how? he could hide in the backwater woods and camp out, and theyd probably never find him. not without passing through major areas which would alert the world to the danger and threat.
but of course that wouldnt be in character of itachi as he thinks he needs to do everything obvious and stupid.
You are underrating Akatsuki's intelligence. Tracking down Itachi or anyone for that matter, is not at all difficult for Akatsuki. Because Itachi has a limited number of choices to take refuge as nobody or no village and absolutely no nation would grant him official refuge, as everybody fears him as an Akatsuki. And if they found out, they will attempt to kill him as he has "Akatsuki" name branded on his face. Passing through major areas is a definite threat for Itachi which will alert the world and they will try to murder him, let alone taking taking a protected and contented refuge. So, if Itachi did that, then that would be pretty stupid as
he is NOT safe in any case. So, Itachi thought not to abandon Akatsuki. Wasn't that genius?
at that point in time all sasuke knows is his clan is dead. he doesnt know who did it or why and awaited an answer as to what itachi was doing still alive. sasuke is not a moron. and he would accept a good enough answer.
konoha never verifies stories like how they never verified uchihas had nothing to do with kyuubi attack so theyd have believed anything sasuke told them.
The information about the Uchiha incident spread like bushfire, and pretty much everybody knows that Itachi slaughtered the Uchiha clan, even foreigners, like Chiyo. Under these circumstances, Sasuke would come to know about the truth at some point in life, so not revealing the truth to Sasuke their and then could prove to be even more dangerous. Plus, Itachi was ashamed by his actions, as he knew he did the right thing but still felt guilt due to the act's indecency, so he intented to get killed by Sasuke for his crime, decided to make Sasuke strong at the same time as he left the Uchiha name solely to Sasuke, by motivating him. TRYING to kill two birds with one stone. Wasn't that genius (although it didn't work out quite right)?
itachi being dead at the cost of 3 s-class terorrists is well worth the sacrifice. hell taking down one is worth it. compared to what actually happened which was itachi leaving akatsuki basically untouched and unhindered.
No, it would be a fruitless sacrifice which would result only in loss. Itachi's death or defection from Akatsuki would mould the consequences COMPLETELY in Akatsuki's favor. Itachi ain't no idiot. He knows full well about the outcomes of his actions. And majority of them come out to be exactly as expected, the only exception being the Sasuke manipulation case.
Taking down 2 S-class terrorists and dying either in battle or afterwards also leaves Akatsuki basically unhindered. It does nothing to neutralize their terrorism. It wasn't wise to take down members at the cost of death as it wouldn't cripple Akatsuki, but Konoha would be left vulnerable to Akatsuki, and Nagato would be very pleased.
Itachi's defection = Akatsuki's benefit
Itachi does everything after diligent thinking.
they did nothing because they didnt like the jins
When a danger is obvious, whining about liking or disliking is not appropriate.
and didnt know the consequences would be of losing a bijuu.
no one did until danzo mentioned madara was still alive at kage summit and when nagato explained his plans.
That's a pitiful excuse. Sure they didn't know about Project Tsuki no me until the Five Kage Summit, but they very well knew that Akatsuki, whatever the purpose for collecting bijuus,
undoubtedly had nefarious intentions behind the job. When criminals are acquiring nukes, what other purpose would they have? That is common logic.
Even if you tell a person with the slightest common sense that
An S-class CRIMINAL organization is capturing bijuus (most powerful tool of war), he would readily answer that "something bad is about to happen". And it was very unheroic of the Five Kages to not resist Akatsuki.
The consequence of losing a bijuu is always dreadful, that much is an uncontroversial fact. And the Five Kage knew that very well. Tsunade and A were selfish just like all the others, deal with it!
thats why it should not have been the deal in the first place.
Not having a deal about Konoha's protection wasn't going to change anything for Kiri or any other village for that matter.
if itachi wants sasuke to be brainwashed inot being a hero and if itachi valued the lives of innocent people, then his "protect konoha" order would have been "protect all young innocent people". but no!
Obito wasn't a genie who came to grant Itachi anything he wished. He held a grudge against his clan and the village. When Itachi learned about this, he offered Obito to gain revenge on his clan as it was already on the unstable side and its elimination program was being pondered upon. And in return for his favor, he demanded the security of Konoha which wasn't actually a deal, but just a part of the negotiations, and within the relevance of Obito's motives. Obito only granted his request because he owed it to Itachi, otherwise he would not accept any of his desires (if he asked to protect young innocent children). BTW, Itachi wasn't aware of other of Obito's evil intentions.
some kid could die in the rain village and itachi wouldnt bat an eyelash. even though every other protagonist would be horrified and want justice.
What did all those protagonists do when Yagura ruthlessly ruled over Kiri?
yet you believe itachi is a hero for doing nothing despite having the power to stop at least some of them
He had the power to kill some of them, not the power to stop them. Stopping Akatsuki is not a job of an individual's caliber, no matter how strong he is. It requires the mutual cooperation between all shinobi villages.
if akatsuki was smart. its not.
obito could do that for all jins and then where would the world be?
Yeah, Obito and Nagato are enough for that job. But when other shinobi are available for assistance, why should they bother doing eveything themselves? A rich person hires other people for doing his work, doesn't mean he can't do it. That's why I said Itachi's sacrifice would be worthless.
if itachi cant do anything to stop akatsuki,knows he cant do anything to stop them, then why remain with them and give them valuable manpower?
He remained with Akatsuki to maintain the validity of the "Konoha protection deal". And manpower is not at all valuable. Akatsuki can easily hire more if they are if need. The shinobi world isn't on a shortage of S-class rogue shinobis.
they defeated powerful members
Yeah honestly, that was a big deal!
They can easily hire more or do the job themselves. That's not a concern for Akatsuki.
and lengthens sealing time and mission options for obito and nagto.
Sealing time can be shortened even by hiring a genin. That's not a commendable excuse.
the only thing that matters is either saving the bijuus or killing off obito and his allies. not doing either of those things means your useless and letting akatsuki kill everyone.
The only thing that matters is saving the bijuus from Akatsuki's sinister clutches. That's it. Later on, shinobi teams can be appointed and assigned tasks to hunt down Akatsuki members and finish them off, as a mutual cooperation between shinobi villages. But killing Akatsuki members only without ensuring the protection of the jinchuurikis is pure idiocy. The only reason Obito is capable of waging war is because of the ignorance of the shinobi world.
THE ONLY VIABLE OPTION IS TO PREVENT AKATSUKI FROM CAPTURING THE BIJUUS. And that isn't done by killing their members.
tsunade and A worked on protecting naruto and bee once the knew akatsukis true objective.
it doesnt matter if thye didnt think it was noble. they waited till there was more information rather than acting brashly.
Tsunade and A only got their asses of the chair once their relatives were in danger. They did absolutely nothing for the others, not even showing concern for them. I can only remember how helpless Matatabi jinchuuriki was when Kakuzu and Hidan were chasing her. There was no reinforcement or anything. In fact, the shinobi world especially Konoha should become vigilant about Akatsuki's motives right after Gaara was captured, but their ignorance and selfishness didn't permit such a deed. And even if Akatsuki was working on a noble cause, Tsunade and A were never going to hand over Naruto and Bee WHATSOEVER. Listening about Akatsuki's plan doesn't mean you are ready for anything. They were listening only because of curiosity and because Obito would shove it up their ears anyway.
information itachi could have gotten them but refused to.
Itachi didn't know about the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan...
i dont know why jiraiya didnt find a way to get out what nagatos plan was but still.
Apparently, Jiraiya ended up doing the same carelessness as Itachi. But I wouldn't bash him. Because unlike you, I'm not a narrow minded person who only considers the negative aspect of any person they hate, while completely ignoring all the good he did, and all the purity in his intentions. Every human commits unintended negligence. Jiraiya is a great shinobi, just because he did one thing wrong doesn't mean he is eligible for abuse. Same is the case with Itachi. Among the list of Itachi's wrong deeds you mentioned, only 1-2 were acceptable. Jiraiya also performed errors to this extent. Does that make him a wicked person? No. So why only Itachi? Also, you never even considered all the good Itachi did for the shinobi world, especially Konoha.
the outcome of the fight is a konoha ninja is tortured and put into a coma.
The outcome of the fight is that no one died, and the fight ceased as well. Only the genius instinct of Itachi is capable of suppressing such a dire situation without any deaths.
who cares if hes not dead? anyone would wish they were dead after enduring horrific sadistic torture.
No one would prefer death over TEMPORARY suffering, no matter how harsh it is.
this isnt about pragmatism and saving konohas manpower from being killed.
the problem is itachi had much less painful and more effiecient ways to escape kakashi. his torture of him was needless pointless cruelty.
disable opponent by knocking them out rather painlessly and then getting out of dodge
vs
pointlessly extending the fight, lockng kakashi in a nightmare dimension and horrifically and painfully torturing him for several days and then ordering kisame to murder him in cold blood. the fact kisame failed doesnt mean itachi didnt order him dead.
Itachi wasn't fighting a bunch of genins. He was going against 4 experienced and professional jounin level shinobis. Do you really think it is that easy to knock down 4 jounins? And run away as if they are just going to sit there and watch the show? Escaping a group of 4 jounins is IMPOSSIBLE without a fight. You can't just go around tricking jounins and escape, or knocking them down without a physical battle. Especially when there are four of them, not just one of two. Itachi made to most intellectual decision to avoid the fight as any other method would lead to deaths. He wanted to disable Kakashi (as you said) and disabling a jounin is difficult. And would also result in his death. So putting Kakashi in coma by using Tsukuyomi on him was the most sensible decision to knock him down without engaging in a physical combat which could lead to unintended deaths. And the fight was extended by just A SECOND. That's what you call extending the fight? One more reason for using Tsukuyomi was to finish the fight in the least possible duration. Man, Itachi really is pretty awesome. He always achieves two goals by just one move. How intelligent and clever of him.
Itachi never ceases to amaze me.
no he didnt. no one needs to listen to these maniacs. and giving them manpower for little gain for anyone but them, is pointless and worthless.
Actually, its the other way round. For them, Itachi's addition wasn't a considerable acheivement. But for Itachi, Konoha's security was ensured, which was satisfactory enough for him.
if hes a spy, hes the worst spy in fiction. he did nothing to help anyone but the enemy
Are you forgetting that the only reason Akatsuki didn't set foot in Konoha until his death
was because of Itachi (despite Nagato's immense grudge against Konoha)?
the mission would have succeeded had jiriya been 2 seconds late. kisame would have lopped off an arm and captured naruto. then where would they be? would itachi whip out his genjutsu and kill kisame then and there? what was his plan if jiraiya stayed away and ****ed the *****? what was his plan if sasuke never came there? was he going to sit around and drink tea til jiraiya and gai decided theyd show up?
As we already know from Obito's story that the purpose behind Itachi's intrusion in Konoha was warn Danzo that he was alive and he should not think about harming Sasuke. BTW, Jiraiya's arrival was perfectly planned by Itachi. Itachi put the girl under genjutsu to separate Jiraiya from Naruto, and he could release the genjutsu anytime he wanted. He released it at the most appropriate moment for Jiraiya to arrive in time for Naruto's defense. If Sasuke didn't show up, he would have released the genjutsu much earlier. Had things not work out as he expected, he would have stopped Kisame himself. He knows the value of a jinchuuriki for any village.
If Gai didn't show up, Itachi wouldn't order Kisame to kill the senseis.
everything regarding his plan to fail to capture naruto is dependent on massive luck and coincidence. plus his needless cruelty regarding sasuke that day. even ksiame was like "wow your a heartless bastard to use that on your brother".
Everything regarding the failure of the plan was due to the genius planning by Itachi, and nothing else. Itachi had every chance in the world for capturing Naruto. First, he tells the four senseis that they are after Naruto? What does that imply. Why would he tell that to Kakashi and the others if he were set of kidnapping Naruto, when no one had even the slightest idea that Naruto was their target? Then, he told Kisame that Jiraiya was too strong for him, when we already know that none of the Sannin is a match for Itachi. One spam of Tsukuyomi could have ripped the soul out of Jiraiya. What do all these statements signify? Do you really think Jiraiya stood a chance against Itachi's Mangekyou? Also, do you still believe that all this is because of luck and coincidence? If yes, then you are absolutely braindead.
he didnt tell kisame that to avoid it. he told kisame that so they could form the plan to separate jiraiya from naruto! theres absolutely no point in the separation plan if your intention is not to complete the mission and get naruto.
Itachi wanted to make the failure plan a realistic spectacle, otherwise Kisame would have gotten suspicious. As Kisame already knew that Itachi could easily use genjutsu to control people, and him not doing that would alert Kisame about his actions. BTW, it wasn't really risky as Itachi had already planned the consequences.
which opened the door for obito to murder 7 jins and kill countless people. those jins died,not knowing that itachi could have protected them if his deal with obito wasnt so selfish and itachi-centric. konohos only important because its his.
The gates were never closed in the first place. And protecting jinchuurikis is not a one man show. Don't say "HE could have protected them". Dealing with Akatsuki requires the activeness and mutual support form all five great nations.
sakura is intelligent and heroic. so your bashing her is pointless derirative idiocy and not the point.
You only perceived the offensive part and didn't bother to apprehend the gist of my comment. Sakura may be intelligent and heroic but that isn't enough to take down Akatsuki. Firstly, Sakura ain't Itachi. She is clearly an opponent unlike Itachi who is an undercover agent. She also doesn't possess any valuable information regarding them. Also, Itachi could be accused of betrayal. On the contrary, Sakura isn't gonna experience any such conviction. The point is Sakura is not worth killing. She is not even the slightest potent threat to Akatsuki. So why should they bother hunting her down and killing her? That would be pretty needless, and Akatsuki doesn't waste its time and energy on worthless things or on useless missions.
my point is akatsuki will indeed let every member except the inner circle die and they WILL NOT CARE.
You are right, but only as long as their plan progressed unhindered. Itachi killing Akatsuki members and escaping, and then keep up the killing from the shadows would make Akatsuki vigilant and furious. And they would definitely track him down to finish him off.
even if kakuzu or whoever openly delcared themselves to be leaving after killing his partner.
i repeat KAKUZU KILLED HIS PARTNERS and they didnt care about the loss of manpower.
Kakuzu killed his partners because of rage, and Akatsuki knew that very well. Their wasn't any betrayal issue regarding his case. And yeah, Kakuzu killed his partners. So what did Akatsuki do? Hired new members. And they would do the same if Itachi killed some members and fled. Not only that but Konoha's protective shield would be demolished, and Nagato would be very pleased by Itachi's move, as he held grudge against Konoha.
...YES HE DID. only reason we know about this is obito telling sasuke this. he said "he joined akatsuki to spy on them". he said this because sasuke said joining akatsuki was one of the major proofs he had of itachi being evil.
Basically, all Obito said was "He joined Akatsuki to protect Konoha from the inside". How does that imply that he was spying on Akatsuki? Obito was simply referring to the pact he made with Itachi.
again because he sucks my ass as a suposed spy
A spy could only report about Akatsuki's meetings and their mutual talk. He informed people about their moves. That information was a secret between the Akatsuki inner circle (Obito, Nagato, Konan and Zetsu) and no one else. How could Itachi have known that?
wrong. oro fled and not one akatsuki was sent after him. kakuzu killed his partners and he wasnt executed for it.
akatsuki simply doesnt give a shit. and they wont find him if hes as good as the manga hypes him to be.
Who cares if Oro fled? What valuable treasure did he have? Orochimaru
just fled, and Kakuzu
just killed his partners. Neither of them did both.
The point is not only that they would have killed Itachi. Even if they didn't kill him, he would still be in danger. Also, Konoha would no longer remain shielded. So, Akatsuki killing Itachi isn't the whole reason behind him not taking any such step.
Firstly, Akatsuki ensures whether the person who left could be any potent threat to them in the future, or whether the one who killed their members is betraying them. Orochimaru just separated himself from Akatsuki and was furious against them, but he didn't hold any particular resentment against them. Also, his motives were pretty much the same. So Orochimaru was confirmed to be no harm if left alive. So they didn't bother killing him. And Kakuzu killing his partners was just because of uncontrollable anger, nothing else. But Itachi killing some Akatsuki and escaping wouldn't end with similar consequences, especially if he keeps killing Akatsuki members even after he left.
If Itachi didn't hinder Akatsuki by taking those steps (which he wouldn't really), then leaving Akatsuki and killing members is pointless, as it would only result in Akatsuki's advantage. And if he proved to be a significant obstruction, then they would sit down clamly letting him do what he wants. So, in both cases, leaving Akatsuki wasn't a rational decision.
obito has more pressing problems than someone he already knows wasnt loyal, leaving them.
Obito never doubted Itachi's loyalty.
so you think they have cops and forensics in ninja world?
oro is a known traitor who all but confessed to killing babies and doing sick experiments.
They do, but they aren't of any significant relevance.
The point is he needed an excuse to kill Orochimaru because Akatsuki would still demand a satisfactory explanation regarding his action even if they didn't care about the lost of manpower. BTW, killing Oro = Itachi's cover blown
an anbu captain would know a man like that isnt worth letting go.
WTF did Anbu do to subdue Orochimaru?
