Wood Release is a Kekkei TOTA, not Genkei

[Blaze Release]

BLAZE !!!!




I love argueing with you about theories LOL cause I actually value your input. With that being said... YOU HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY HELPED MY ARGUEMENT HERE. THANK YOU KIND SIR.









Let me explain. You said (and I quote "The two which are ying and yang are not really nature elements"


But... the very first manga screen print you put up states: "With his Yin-Yang Elemental Power he created the Nine Beasts from the Ten-Tails chakra."

Wiki says that Yin and Yang are the 6th and 7th Nature powers. We can both argue about what Wiki tells us b/c Wiki is NOT cannon. I understand that. But... are you telling me that even though the MANGA states that Yin and Yang ARE Elemental Powers, you dont agree?



Last point. Yes, mixing Water and Earth elements are used in creating wood, but as I stated earlier... this is different from any other Kekkei Genkai jutsu because it creates LIFE. There is no combination that you could ever do with regular elements to create life WITHOUT adding vitality. Thats the ability to be "alive", to grow, to have vitality. These "trees" and plant life Mokuton creates is real, living, breathing, growing plants--the same used in the foundation building of Konoha. You need life force to create a jutsu that creates living things!!! This is proven (that Yang is in Mokutun) by the way that naruto's Yang chakra causes the Mokuton trees to GROW.


Are you telling me that Wood Release = Water + Earth AND Yang, but Yang isn't a Nature Element? Even though Wiki AND the manga say it is? Because honestly, this should mean that Mokuton uses THREE Nature elements, which would classify it as Kekkei Tota. Please elaborate what you mean.


-gHost Senju, K.U.S.H. Sage

First of all the 5 basic elements again are ;

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That is the 5 basic elements. However there is a 6th element;

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The 6 element, isnt ying or yang. Its yinyang. The combination of both is what makes up the 6th element. Either individually isnt really an element therefore mokuton isnt a tota


This is basically an argument whether we consider ying and yan as elements indivudually and i blame the 2nd mizukage that troll who categorised genjutsu as a yin relese. The reason why he categorised genjutsu as yin release is because in the manga yin release is "By administrating imagination and the spiritual energy which forms the basis of yin power he would create shape and form from nothingness". That is basically genjutsu. But that doesnt mean that genjutsu is an element.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

First of all the 5 basic elements again are ;

You must be registered for see images

That is the 5 basic elements. However there is a 6th element;

You must be registered for see images

The 6 element, isnt ying or yang. Its yinyang. The combination of both is what makes up the 6th element. Either individually isnt really an element therefore mokuton isnt a tota


This is basically an argument whether we consider ying and yan as elements indivudually and i blame the 2nd mizukage that troll who categorised genjutsu as a yin relese. The reason why he categorised genjutsu as yin release is because in the manga yin release is "By administrating imagination and the spiritual energy which forms the basis of yin power he would create shape and form from nothingness". That is basically genjutsu. But that doesnt mean that genjutsu is an element.

BLAZE,


Damn you for your good @$$ arguements. This is the hardest part to argue at the moment because you are correct, the manga page you posted does label only a "6th" Nature... and it doesn't say Yin/Yang but I agreee with you totally thats what should be assumed here.





So let me bring up a different point.

Doujutsu's are labeled a Kekkei Genkai. Sharigan/MS (for example) we know is passed down through the Elder Son. We also know from manga evidence that the Elder Son's inheritance from the sage was the "YIN" power, which is used in the Eye Techniques. I would start here by argueing that these eye techiques from the Uchiha are not YIN/YANG based but YIN ONLY... Unless they have a MAJORITY YIN and a little bit of Yang.


So, do you mean to say that Doujutsu Eye technique actually are YIN/YANG based and not just YIN? Cause like you pointed out, the 2nd Mizukage characterized Genjutsu (one of the main techs of dojutsu) as YIN ONLY. Furthermore, there are no "elements" used to produce the Kekkei Genkai in the Uchiha, just for sure YIN and "possibly" some YANG.


Part of my entire arguement for this thread is the fact that YIN was passed to the Uchiha (through the SO6P), and YANG was passed to the Senju. The "YIN" in the uchiha makes them have the Kekkei Genkai through the eyes, and my assumption is that the "YANG" makes the "body" technique (mokuton) a Kekkei Genkai through the Senju family, although this ability is not shared by all Senju known, none except Hashirama.


If the YIN in Uchiha gives them their Kekkei Genkai, I assumed that its possible that only YANG in the Senju can cause for Kekkei Genkai to occur on their side of the family. Maybe Mokuton has BOTH YANG and ALITTLE BIT OF YIN... but I honestly don't think YIN is a part of Mokuton. Hmmmm. I need to do more research on YIN Kekkei Genkai techniques in my Data Book. Damn you BLAZE for making me research more!!!







-gHost Senju, K.U.S.H. Sage

 

[Icelerate]

It is a good theory but I guess Blaze proved you wrong in the end. Though this was a good and interesting read and you both think very deep.

 

[Zato]

Would earth and water make mud? I think its because of Hashirama's life force and special chakara is the reason why trees comes out instead. Makes more sense that way at least.

 

[Black Adam]

If you are correct, I understand. Again, everyone seems to be making the same arguement without disproving my response. I am saying that...



1) Kekkei Genkai are not only "elements". They also include Yin and Yang chakra natures. This is evident from the knowledge that eye dojutsus are a Kekkei Genkai, and they use "YIN" chakra nature, not an element.


2) Yang release is also in Mokuton. Yang is the ability to have life, this is repeated in the manga several times. There is no way to create real life without having Yang chakra infused. Wood, trees, seeds, flowers... these are DIFFERENT than just normal jutsus. You are in actuality creating life itself, and not just manipulating elements.


3) If Yin is in other Kekkei Genkai, and Yang is in Wood Release, then Wood release should be considered a Tota since it has 3 chakra natures (not 3 elements)

Wouldn't Sharingan, Rinnegan, and Byakugan be considered touta aswell...? am I missing something? :shrug:

 

[teetooktier]

This is actually a brilliant analysis, whether it is right or wrong. I now think that there is no question that Mokuton must use yang chakra.

I remembered that Naruto kept making Yamato's wood grow while in Kyuubi mode. I pooped myself when I realized that Minato sealed Kurama's Yin chakra, and gave the Yang portion to Naruto. Wow.

IMO, Mokuton is called a Kekkei Genkai because it was revealed years ago, before Kishimoto ever came up with Kekkei Touta or Yin and Yang chakra. It SHOULD be called a Touta. This is just one of those times where the manga changes over time and some of the old information no longer adds up.

+ Rep

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Wouldn't Sharingan, Rinnegan, and Byakugan be considered touta aswell...? am I missing something? :shrug:

No.


Why? These dojutsus don't use any elements, it's YIN release channeled through the eyes. An individual technique would like ameretsu would (Blaze Release) just like wood release is a technique so it also uses elements. In comparison remember...

Elder son = Yin = dojutsu = Uchiha = techniques (blaze release)
Younger son = Yang = Body = Senju = techniques (mouton)

 

[Munboy]

Yamato clearly tells us otherwise.

 

[iSpeak]

Everything is right but as far as im aware you need 2 elements to mix for a KKG, not 2 Nature types.

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

Lol. Fail

This^xd I admire that yu put so muxh work into it

 

[iKiddMars]

iHear you But its a KG.

 

[Cerox0]

So much fail in this thread.

Has 2 Element releases.

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Nowhere does it say Yang

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As said by Kakashi

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[MilwaukeegHost]

Everything is right but as far as im aware you need 2 elements to mix for a KKG, not 2 Nature types.

If that is true please tell me what 2 elements every Uchiha has that makes their sharingan a kekkei genkai...?

 

[~Yubel~]

+rep for your work, i think you´re right.

 

[Black Adam]

No.


Why? These dojutsus don't use any elements, it's YIN release channeled through the eyes. An individual technique would like ameretsu would (Blaze Release) just like wood release is a technique so it also uses elements. In comparison remember...

Elder son = Yin = dojutsu = Uchiha = techniques (blaze release)
Younger son = Yang = Body = Senju = techniques (mouton)

Sounds contradictory however if I were to assign two elements to the Sharingan they would be Fire and Wind and Byakugan Earth and Wind...:shrug:

Besides what keeps us from calling Naruto's Wind Style Shuriken a Genkai?...could chakra portion be seen as a yang release jutsu? plus no one else can use that technique or copy it...

 

[iSpeak]

If that is true please tell me what 2 elements every Uchiha has that makes their sharingan a kekkei genkai...?

Sharingan is a different type of KKG.
There are 2 types. One is made by combining 2 elements together (which aren't restricted to bloodline) such as magnet release, explosion release etc. Basically the ones that have "release" at the end of it.
Then there are KKG's which are Bloodline only (such as Sharingan, Byakugan, Shikotsumyaku etc). You don't mix elements for those.
The Sharingan just uses Yin based techniques because that is the half that their clan inherited from the Sage of the 6 paths. That isn't the reason it is a kKG though.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

Sounds contradictory however if I were to assign two elements to the Sharingan they would be Fire and Wind and Byakugan Earth and Wind...:shrug:

Besides what keeps us from calling Naruto's Wind Style Shuriken a Genkai?...could chakra portion be seen as a yang release jutsu? plus no one else can use that technique or copy it...

This would mean all sharingan users have wind release aand all byakugan users use earth release which ISN't true.

But if you count all sharingan users with fire style (which all Uchiha have) and consider YIN the second nature, only then would it make sense.

What makes it an Kekkei Genkai is the fact your born with an affinity for two elements at birth. This allows for you to be able to use both together and create a NEW element

 

[FlyingThunderGodHax]

Lol. Fail

lol

No.

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What even prompted this thread?

Its been stated IN THE MANGA, that Wood Release is a Kekkei Genkai...

This^^

However , I think your logic only applies to the 1st hokage not those fail projects eg:danzo/yamato. But I'm sorry to say that the manga had clearly stated that it was a kg. But good try.

 

[MilwaukeegHost]

lol


This^^

However , I think your logic only applies to the 1st hokage not those fail projects eg:danzo/yamato. But I'm sorry to say that the manga had clearly stated that it was a kg. But good try.

Danzo = arm turned into a growing tree (HASHIRAMA DNA) = YANG
YAMATO = born with HASHIRAMA DNA = Yang

Also

Younger Son = Body of Sage = YANG = Senju Body
Elder Son = Eyes of Sage = YIN = Uchiha Eyes




I'm not sure what point you meant to make with the Yamato/Danzo not having Yang chakra comment...