[Discussion] women in shonen Manga

[Rayder]

fairy tail , nisokoi (or how it's written) and attack on titan and ofc ... one piece that's all i can remember.

Fairy Tail dude
That Erza

The guy complained about demeaning outfits and overly sexualized women and you recommend Fairy Tail to him ? :|

 

[Dãrth1]

The guy complained about demeaning outfits and overly sexualized women and you recommend Fairy Tail to him ? :|

At least, there the womans aren't weaklings like in Naruto

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

The guy complained about demeaning outfits and overly sexualized women and you recommend Fairy Tail to him ? :|

Er, are you refearing to me? Because I' m a girl, hence the convo about shonen manga's that take there female cast seriously

It's not really about costume because that's unfair because in girls manga the guys are always half dressed and I, just for example, have dozens of fan arts of Gin Ichimaru in states of undress...*cough* :ilu: LOL! :bouncy:

So what I mean is, it is very hypocritical for girls to complain about the costumes, as girls will always draw fan arts of there favorite male characters in states of disarray.

It's about Manga that actually has female characters that are important and well represented.

Another couple of good examples, Ran from detective Conan, Yoruichi, (who is unfortunately hardly ever in the Manga)

God, I'm so bad at wording things I shouldn't start threads...they always end up in a big muddle :hyper: I know what I mean and know one else does, not good form for a thread LOL

 

[Seventh Sama]

AoT and black lagoon have some important female roles

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

In shonen they're usually either in the way or fan service. Which is understandable since it's geared towards teen males.

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

In shonen they're usually either in the way or fan service. Which is understandable since it's geared towards teen males.

But it is also sad because it shows a disturbing lack of imagination on the creators part...

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

But it is also sad because it shows a disturbing lack of imagination on the creators part...

Well anime in general now is like that. With a lot of stuff it's like they're following some sort of guideline on what a certain genre should be and have. There's a lot of cliches not only in shonen.

 

[NaNaNaaaaa]

Well anime in general now is like that. With a lot of stuff it's like they're following some sort of guideline on what a certain genre should be and have. There's a lot of cliches not only in shonen.

Yes, that is very true, I think Manga in general is based on a blueprint and although it is a case of if its not broke don't fix it, it can cause certain areas to become dry...

 

[Avani 👑]

After seeing the humiliating outfit Kubo stuck Orihime in this week, (what happened to her long skirts and T - shirts?), I decided to post this thread.

We all know that shonen is a male dominated genre of Manga but there are a LOT of girls who read shonen Manga as well. I was wondering which Manga you think best represents female characters in a way that makes them important to the plot and not just eye candy for the guys?

A manga that doesn't demean there female characters but takes them seriously?

In Naruto most of the girls are shallow, selfish, vain and bossy, Hinata and Ten - Ten are the only real exceptions and Ten - Ten has no personality and Hinata is the generic Manga shy girl.

In Bleach, though Kubo makes his female characters strong, he seems so obsessed with making them top heavy it can be difficult to take them seriously at times.

Females may read it of course but that doesn't mean they are the target audience. In fact publishers and producers involved probably do not even want them to read/watch that show all that much.

Boys like dolls so much more than girls do. (Because, come on, action figures are totally dolls.)

Boys' love of dolls is, in fact, the explanation writer Paul Dini got for why his Cartoon Network show, Tower Prep, was canceled. In a fascinating discussion with director Kevin Smith, Dini relates that higher-ups at the cable network urged him to focus his storylines on his male characters and make his female characters "one step behind the boys, not as smart as the boys, not as interesting as the boys." When Dini proceeded to create fully realized girl characters anyway, the Cartoon Network axed the show.

Here's the relevant excerpt (emphases added):

DINI: They're all for boys. "We do not want the girls," I mean, I've heard executives say this, you know, not [where I am] but at other places, saying like, "We do not want girls watching this show."

SMITH: WHY? That's 51% of the population.

DINI: They. Do. Not. Buy. Toys. The girls buy different toys. The girls may watch the show --

SMITH: So you can sell them T-shirts if they don't -- A: I disagree, I think girls buy toys as well, I mean not as many as ****ing boys do, but, B: sell them something else, man! Don't be lazy and be like, 'well I can't sell a girl a toy.' Sell 'em a T-shirt, man, sell them ****ing umbrella with the ****ing character on it, something like that. But if it's not a toy, there's something else you could sell 'em! Like, just because you can't figure out your job, don't kill chances of, like, something that's gonna reach an audi -- that's just so self-defeating, when people go, like... these are the same ****ers who go, like, "Oh, girls don't read comics, girls aren't into comics." It's all self-fulfilling prophecies. They just make it that way, by going like, "I can't sell 'em a toy, what's the point?"

DINI: That's the thing, you know I hate being Mr. Sour Grapes here, but I'll just lay it on the line: that's the thing that got us cancelled on Tower Prep, honest-to-God was, like, "We need boys, but we need girls right there, right one step behind the boys" -- this is the network talking -- "one step behind the boys, not as smart as the boys, not as interesting as the boys, but right there." And then we began writing stories that got into the two girls' back stories, and they were really interesting. And suddenly we had families and girls watching, and girls really became a big part of our audience, in sort of like they picked up that Harry Potter type of serialized way, which is what The Batman and [indistinct]'s really gonna kill. But, the Cartoon Network was saying, '****, no, we want the boys' action, it's boys' action, this goofy boy humor we've gotta get that in there. And we can't -- and I'd say, but look at the numbers, we've got parents watching, with the families, and then when you break it down -- "Yeah, but the -- so many -- we've got too many girls. We need more boys."

SMITH: That's heart-breaking.

DINI: And then that's why they cancelled us, and they put on a show called Level Up, which is, you know, goofy nerds fighting CG monsters. It's like, "We don't want the girls because the girls won't buy toys." We had a whole merchandise line for Tower Prep that they shitcanned before it ever got off the launching pad, because it's like, "Boys, boys, boys. Boys buy the little spinny tops, they but the action figures, girls buy princesses, we're not selling princesses."


Let's put aside the disheartening implication that stories can only be told if they can be also reduced to colorful chunks of plastic and sold to a bunch of little kids who can only express fandom through buying merchandise.

What Dini and Smith's conversation reveals is that the lazy and incompetent suits at Cartoon Network were so intent on selling to just 25% of the audience (young males) that they completely disregarded that they had captured all four viewer quadrants (boys and girls as well as families, which presumably includes parents). As Scott Beggs notes over at Film School Rejects, "It's clear that 'Girls don't buy X' is another way of saying 'I don't know how to sell girls X'" -- a problem that might be alleviated by the greater presence of female execs over at the network. (They do know that girls love cartoons too, right?)

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[NaNaNaaaaa]

Females may read it of course but that doesn't mean they are the target audience. In fact publishers and producers involved probably do not even want them to read/watch that show all that much.

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If that is the case then they are some very dumb publishers and producers, the whole point is to capture as large an audience as possible, no wonder so many companies go out of business.

 

[Forest]

Lan Fan and Riza Hawkeye from Full Metal Alchemist. They are supporting characters, but how the mangaka shaped their character, I think he did well.

Misora Naomi from Death Note. Though she's a side character, I like how she got so close to figuring Yagami's true identity.

Ghost in the Shell's Motoko Kusanagi is a superb female lead, intelligent female character who can fight and manage a group of men, but she wears skimpy clothing and has lots of nude panels. ._.

the FMA female antagonists were more bad ass, and misora was only in like 2 episodes, though, I see what you are saying

 

[Avani 👑]

If that is the case then they are some very dumb publishers and producers, the whole point is to capture as large an audience as possible, no wonder so many companies go out of business.

Not sure if they are dumb or there are too many guys who are not that comfortable with female characters hogging the screen time. If they are providing fan service then it's another matter. And that's the key word- fan service for the target audience.

 

[The Sach]

If you think about 'traditional' cartoons things said by Ira, are completely accurate.
Although things are changing. Look at Akame Ga Kiru, a lot of OP and well written female characters. Look at Attack On Titan, characters of Annie and Mikasa are really awesome written ones, Coppelion, all three female protagonists have awesome development, Fairy Tail, character of Ulter Milkowich is perhaps one of the most well written female manga characters in my opinion and all of these characters are pretty powerful characters. If you want to get more evidence of things are changing, just check out how many Narutobase boys have female AVAs you will find that there are many such boys(including myself), indication that we boys are accepting this change and we like female characters with good development and which aren't solely made for fan service. :yeah:
@Bleach, seems like you are too much focused about how female characters look. Yeah there is a fan service(which is there in every manga to lesser or to greater extent) but don't forget few female characters are really well written and aren't only Mannequins who are there to make manga good looking. Naruto is worse when it comes to female character development.

 

[Nebula]

Mikasa is the main character of attack on titan.

 

[Memento Mori]

Attack on Titan,Akame ga kiru and Fairy Tail

 

[Avani 👑]

If you think about 'traditional' cartoons things said by Ira, are completely accurate.
Although things are changing. Look at Akame Ga Kiru, a lot of OP and well written female characters. Look at Attack On Titan, characters of Annie and Mikasa are really awesome written ones, Coppelion, all three female protagonists have awesome development, Fairy Tail, character of Ulter Milkowich is perhaps one of the most well written female manga characters in my opinion and all of these characters are pretty powerful characters. If you want to get more evidence of things are changing, just check out how many Narutobase boys have female AVAs you will find that there are many such boys(including myself), indication that we boys are accepting this change and we like female characters with good development and which aren't solely made for fan service. :yeah:
@Bleach, seems like you are too much focused about how female characters look. Yeah there is a fan service(which is there in every manga to lesser or to greater extent) but don't forget few female characters are really well written and aren't only Mannequins who are there to make manga good looking. Naruto is worse when it comes to female character development.

Disclaimer: I am not putting all male fans in one category. Off course there are various degrees of likings to everything and then some are on end of the spectrum to either side.

The series you just mentioned are still too young and short. We will see how they grow in later stages.

Besides a quick search for this anime showed me these responses:

Coppelion- shoehorned teenage school girls into a show about boats. They may have worked on a reason to do that but they are there to wear mini skirts and add spice. Do these girls in school dress go to a school?

t apparently, the best way to craft soldiers, is to fool people into thinking they're simple teenage highschool girls in a post apocalyptic environment where sending them to a high school is a better thing to do than teaching them in the military base, which... you know, every military who would do such a thing would do.

makes perfect sense, indeed.

So they made engineered soldiers to look like highschool teens for the reasons? I don't watch it so maybe you can explain..

FT - I don't read that either but Ulter Milkowich is not in a position to hog screen time according to wiki. And that's the thing - female characters may have some time- as a side character or in an arc or too but they are not to steal the lime light away from main male characters for too long.

There were few scene where Nami got to shine ( against women or using her feminism to charm ) and since then she is running in Bikini .......Don't get even me started on Tashigi. To think I hoped more from her character than keep pouting ..

Guys having female ava lol That doesn't mean much. Some are just admiring their favourite drawing some are literally trying to play female.

I just don't worry over it too much because expecting too much depth in shonnen manga is rather wasting time. They will improve when society changes.

Hermione Granger is good example of better written character but then the writer is female and it's a book not a manga trying to keep the rating every week.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

You know Girls does read shounen manga, but usually they did that for the Bishounen/Pretty Boys,
like Kuroko No Basket, Prince Of Tennis, Gintama and Haikyuu,

There are manga like that, who provide fanservice for the female readers....
but if you;re looking for shounen battle manga that does the female character justice then you better stop now,
i mean to begin with all this argument about "manga that doesn't demean their female characters but takes them seriously" is completely subjective yes ?

And there also the fact that you're looking for a decent/serioulsy taken female character in shounen manga,
do you even know what shounen means ? of course you knew yes ?
this entire genre is aimed at boys, so what do you think their 1st concern when making the manga/anime ? its " will the boys watch/read it ? are they going to like it ? to an extent that they're going to buy every single one of the volume/BD ?

see ? they don't care about what the female think, because in the end of the day they're making a series for boys in a magazine that dedicated for boys, they can do whatever they want to the female character as long as the boys like it,

Female readers have their own marketing field and its called shoujo and Yaoi
or you can always try some slice of life anime with romance in it.

 

[xcoyote]

Full Metal Alchemist.

 

[Sherlock.]

I understand now why Oda Sensei increased fan service so much as the series progressed. I don't like the fan service in OP cause its pointless IMO. I only find Hancock related Fan Service necessary(world's prettiest woman and all) and okay Mermaids but apart from that its unnecessary IMO. I'd rather focus on the story than watching semi nude chicks. Panels like that of Rebecca's from yesterday's chapter are uncalled for. I mean seriously.... It was height of Fan Service and I feel OP doesn't even need it cause it's story itself keeps you glued

 

[Bantos]

At least, there the womans aren't weaklings like in Naruto

What.

Forgot about Tsunade, Konan and Yugito?

Tsunade is known all around the world as the strongest kunoichi and is hella skilled. Equals with her team mates and beats two other hokage, who are all male.

Konan was in akatsuki and forced Obito to use izanagi. She's strong.

Yugito said that she was the second strongest ninja in Kumo. That means she's stronger than Bee, or stronger than A, depending on which one is stronger.