Woman Jailed for being Against Homosexuality

NaNaNaaaaa

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It's against the law. She works for the government. The government is no place to throw in your beliefs. I am glad she got removed.
This. It might also be nice if she didn't make all religious people look like narrow minded, mad arse bigots...besides, how would she feel if someone told her how to be happy, there are dozens of religions in the world, what is she walked into a Jewish jewelers and they refused to serve her because she is Christian, she would be screaming prejudice like merry hell

The best part is, they're all gonna die someday, and the world will keep on spinning.


LOL and? He still did it. If God was a douche in the Old Testament, he's a douche now.
Malachi 3:6
"I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.
You know the bible was written by men not God right? and has been translated, badly, re written, edited and changed so many times it is now mostly propaganda.
 
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Aim64C

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There are two parts to this.

First - the duties of her position come before her personal feelings on the issue. It is grounds for termination (at least) for someone in staffed office of the public to fail to fulfill the job description.

So, for her to use her personal feelings as her grounds for her failing to uphold policy, she is 'guilty.'

Second - What she should have done is use the legal grounds for her actions. A court cannot write law. The law in her district states that marriage is between a man and a woman and has not been amended. It is technically illegal for her to issue licenses, no matter what court tells her she must do so, as the court does not have legislative authority. The judge is actually the one who should be doing jail time for contempt.

The problem is that she stated that her reasons for doing this were personal - thus obscuring the legal argument and making it difficult to avoid repercussions upon herself, as she was essentially acting in contempt, herself.

Kim Davis was put in jail for not providing a marriage license to a gay couple. When did standing up for your beliefs lead to jail time? The world man, it's just getting worse
Technically, she's not in a position where she can 'stand' for her beliefs. She can't change laws, either. If the laws state that it is the duty of her position to administer those licenses - then that's what she is to do when filling that position, and her personal beliefs don't matter.

I have a friend who works as the deputy assessor for a region. He and I both disagree with property tax law, but he deals with property taxes. He doesn't get to do things 'his way' just because he's in a position where he theoretically could try to get away with doing whatever the hell he wants to do. He is bound by the tax laws as to what he can do in that position, whether he would prefer it to be that way, or not.

The concept of a Constitutional government and, indeed, a Nation of Laws is that people are staff within described positions. Many of the positions in government are literally meant to be as 'data laborers' - they aren't to have the authority to make cavalier decisions about how laws should work. It undermines the entire concept of there being laws that apply equally to all people.
 

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Kim Davis was put in jail for not providing a marriage license to a gay couple. When did standing up for your beliefs lead to jail time? The world man, it's just getting worse
she is not just some women, she is an elected official and must just like everyone else abide the law.

she refused to follow the law and was therefor rightfully punished.

she have every right to believe in the notion that gay people don't deserve to be married and that their love is unnatural, however what she is not allowed to do is to refuse to give them a marriage license, it's apart of the duties she was elected to do, and do to the fact that she deliberate refused to follow the law, and so she did, hence why she was punished accordingly.

do you not think people who break the laws should be punished?
 

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And yet, others will argue that it is a hate crime against homosexuals. The religious folk are gonna have their freedom stripped from them in due time
Dude you're ****ing mental, over 70% of the american population is religious and it's political suicide if you state that you don't have a religious belief (admits you are an atheist) while running for office, don't worry there will still be a bias for religious people in politics for a very long time in you're country.

enforcing the laws that make it so that religious people can't discriminate against none religious people or homosexuals is not stripping rights from you, it forcing you people to not strip any rights of others, for **** sake man, how stupid are you?

what if it was the other way around and it was a strait people that wore being denied marriage? jesus man, try and out you're self in other peoples shoes for even 1 second instead of spouting you bigoted bullshit.
 

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I see a bunch of sheep here commenting.

This isn't about figuring out if what she did was right or wrong....the fact of the matter is she shouldn't have went to jail for it. She should have gotten fired.

Its situations like these which expose people. People jumping to conclusions to defend this shitty case.
 

Multiply

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I see a bunch of sheep here commenting.

This isn't about figuring out if what she did was right or wrong....the fact of the matter is she shouldn't have went to jail for it. She should have gotten fired.

Its situations like these which expose people. People jumping to conclusions to defend this shitty case.
She works for the government B. What are you even saying.
 

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.....
Second - What she should have done is use the legal grounds for her actions. A court cannot write law. The law in her district states that marriage is between a man and a woman and has not been amended. It is technically illegal for her to issue licenses, no matter what court tells her she must do so, as the court does not have legislative authority. The judge is actually the one who should be doing jail time for contempt.

........
.......

The law in her district states that marriage is between a man and a woman and has not been amended. It is technically illegal for her to issue licenses, no matter what court tells her she must do so, as the court does not have legislative authority.

Your SC is arrogant enough to believe that it has jurisdiction over the whole world and has a right to issues orders and summons to people that are not even US citizens for the supposed "crimes" that didn't occur on on it's soil. ( more than once it has issued such orders for something that happened in the other country)

And you say it couldn't issue an order and expect compliance within USA and Judge should be jailed for the contempt and didn't have legislative authority?

... Of course I don't know all the detailed local laws. Are SC ruling binding on State's or district laws or not?
 
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Multiply

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Your SC is arrogant enough to believe that it has jurisdiction over the whole world and has a right to issues orders and summons to people that are not even US citizens for the supposed "crimes" that didn't occur on on it's soil. And you say it couldn't issue an order and expect compliance within USA and should be jailed for it?
@Bold, where did you pull that from?

I'm not sure you ready any of this right...?
 
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Multiply

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So? She can get fired and never get a job at the government again. Putting her in Jail?
Because she has a job to do. I'm pretty sure she can't be fired because she's a civil service agent, and it's not like she was performing poorly. She was simply rejecting applications she didn't like(because of religious reasons), which is technically her job(to accept or reject).

The reason she was jailed is because she would not resign her post and she said she would not stop rejecting these applications because of her personal religious reasons.

(Again I'm pretty sure this is what is going on, but don't quote me word for word on it)
 

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So? She can get fired and never get a job at the government again. Putting her in Jail?
I don't think she was jailed for simply not doing her job.
I think it was more of her impeding on someone's rights that got
her jailed. Ignore her job, and focus on the aspect of her impeding
someone's right and it's kinda clear why she was jailed.
 

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@Bold, where did you pull that from?

I'm not sure you ready any of this right...?
It literally did that. A few example-





Some of your lawyers like to get famous and show off and your SC loves to flex it's muscle. If you think it's just sending the army to other nations which spoils you country's image - think again.

So? She can get fired and never get a job at the government again. Putting her in Jail?
If you are held for contempt to court order you go to jail. Nothing complicated there. And she probably knew and yet persisted.

There are only two outcome of this. Others wouldn't want to go to jail or just may disagree with her and issue license, people will forget her soon and life will go on as it is. Or enough people will stand up and force the local parliamentarians to take a stand and demand parliament to make laws differently. Second option doesn't seem that popular currently to have much effect. So it would remain as an individual attempt to protest against such laws or few individuals at best .
 
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This. It might also be nice if she didn't make all religious people look like narrow minded, mad arse bigots...besides, how would she feel if someone told her how to be happy, there are dozens of religions in the world, what is she walked into a Jewish jewelers and they refused to serve her because she is Christian, she would be screaming prejudice like merry hell



You know the bible was written by men not God right? and has been translated, badly, re written, edited and changed so many times it is now mostly propaganda.
You know I'm an atheist right?

I see a bunch of sheep here commenting.

This isn't about figuring out if what she did was right or wrong....the fact of the matter is she shouldn't have went to jail for it. She should have gotten fired.

Its situations like these which expose people. People jumping to conclusions to defend this shitty case.
I'm pretty sure she went to jail because what she did was a crime.
 

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Your SC is arrogant enough to believe that it has jurisdiction over the whole world and has a right to issues orders and summons to people that are not even US citizens for the supposed "crimes" that didn't occur on on it's soil. ( more than once it has issued such orders for something that happened in the other country)

And you say it couldn't issue an order and expect compliance within USA and Judge should be jailed for the contempt and didn't have legislative authority?

... Of course I don't know all the detailed local laws. Are SC ruling binding on State's or district laws or not?
The only thing the Supreme Court is granted the power to do within the Constitution is to decide whether or not a law complies with the U.S. National Constitution.

Each State has their own Constitution which defines the laws of the State and each State has their own court system that rules upon State laws and other such things.

The Supreme Court does not have the ability to rule that someone do something other than comply with the law. The problem is that the U.S. Supreme Court has no jurisdiction over the institution of Marriage. This is part of the 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which states that all powers not expressly granted to the National/Federal government by the Constitution are reserved to the States.

Which means that States are free to decide how they will define and issue marriage licenses according to their own laws.

Of course, back when Income Tax was established in America, it began to break down tax groups by heads of households, marital status, etc, and rates began to become independently adjusted. This has become a key component in the unconstitutional expansion of federal government authority. Since the federal government can only base its tax systems off of what is recorded by States - it attempts to use anti-discriminatory presidential acts to expand its authority into marriage, since whether or not a State issues marriage licenses has an impact on the taxes of various demographic groups.

The way the ruling should have gone is that she was forbidden by State law to issue marriage licenses to parties who did not qualify under the definition of the law. The court does not have the power to change a law. It can't then say: "well, the law should say this..." - They actually can't touch the law in that case, a separate case regarding the constitutionality of the law must be started. Then, if found that it is unconstitutional, the net effect is that all marriage licenses are suspended in the State until the legislature can write a new law establishing new guidelines.

The court can't say: "Well, homosexuals should fit in here, too" - and make it so. Only the legislature can write and approve laws.

That isn't how things are currently working in the U.S. - which is why I'm personally pro-secession and will be working to build and declare an independent nation with in the current territory of the U.S. Fixing our current system is just not possible, and a revolution will shatter this nation into a million pieces. The only route with a chance of being a net productive outcome is the declaration of a new nation under a revised Constitution that is upheld by those who understand the importance of the Rule of Law.

There are two opposing general ideologies in America, at present. You have classic European progressivism, which spawned the French Revolution, the rise of Nazi Germany, and several other notable catastrophes in human history. This group tends to assert that the people in public office must be empowered to so impose their virtues upon society. In other words - any government official in any position should be allowed to do whatever he or she feels is 'just' or 'correct.'

... so long as it complies with this year's moral or anti-moral crusade.

Then you have what is, essentially, an opposite ideology that tends to believe it is important for offices to be bound and defined according to law and are not empowered to do what they feel is right or 'just' at the time. The parties that write law are also bound by laws overseen by various interests, including the public and the member states/nations that comprise the republic. Congress doesn't get to write a law to fix something unless the Constitution has gone through a much more arduous process of being amended to grant it the power to write such a law in regards to that issue. It doesn't matter if it's unanimous support for the law in Congress and the President signs it the first thing in the morning - if the Constitution does not specifically say that Congress can write such a law, it's defunct.

But, like I said, we've been running down the path of "government can just decide to do whatever, where-ever, whenever, and however it chooses to - because it's government!"

Which is why we're about to tear the living shit out of each other in a few months.
 

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I don't fathom the idea of gay marriage myself. but i think she deserved to be punished for simply not doing her job .

Its not because gay marriage that she is punished its because she is not doing her duty . It is legal now so she have no right to refuse . If she doesn't like it then she should just quit the job .

Although to me i think prison is too much . losing her job is enough .
 

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It's not just about "harming." Someone who breaks into your house and just steals your TV didn't harm you, but they still receive punishment, don't they?
There's also a law against trespassing and isn't there? So why was a Kentucky man fined and cuffed for something he was totally right for doing?



Also, like I mentioned prior, thieves who typically steal are not accordingly punished. This woman got jailed for not doing her job. Read up on Eric Snowden and you'll see why this makes zero sense


The cop argument makes no sense. You are justifying being outraged at someone being jailed for violating the rights of another by being outraged at someone not being jailed for violating the rights of another. It's hypocritical. If you see cops getting off for their crimes as wrong, then you should say Davis getting off for her crime as wrong.
If you get the liberal out your eyes and look back when I responded to BlazeRelease, I withdrew one of my arguments, simply because, yes anywhere you can get into trouble for not doing your job (jail time, noo.....). Thieves, people who harass and commit violent acts, etc. commit crimes as well. Are you stating that anyone who breaks the law or commits a crime deserves to be jailed? This where your logic fails because if a women getting jailed because she didn't do her job then every other persons who commit crimes that cause distress should be jailed as well. I merely pointed out the cops to show how retarded and unfair America's justice system is. This country as a whole worries about the lesser importance of things instead of the real major problems

Except that's not the way it works. Your religious freedom allows you to follow a religion of your choice. But it does not give you the right to impede on the rights and safety of others in the name of your religion. If the law states that gay people have the right to receive marriage licenses, you cannot deprive the of that right in the name of your religion. She was not arrested because she believed homosexuals shouldn't get marriage licenses. She was arrested because the law says that homosexuals cannot be denied marriage licenses and because she refused to carry out her duty as an elected government official. If a cop refused to arrest a rapist because the rapist did so to a homosexual and he doesn't believe in their rights, or a doctor refused to perform a check up on a homosexual patient because of his religious belief, the same thing would happen.
And yet cops take lives because of their belief that all black people are thugs, yet get a slap on the wrist.


Funny you talk about ignorance when you were ignorant to the scripture I was talking about. It's this, by the way:
Romans 13, 1-5
And here we go with the ignorance again. I did say I would never debate with you with all the moronic posting you did in one of Dantee's threads. I wonder what translation you used?


1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God
I will be using the KJV, that's the most accurate to the original: ("Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.")
"For there is no power but of God, powers to be ordained but of God." Key phrases in that verse. Power in the Hebrew is synonymous to authority. So you mean to tell me that this verse, that clearly states that "there is no authority but of God" then God would ordain people of land to follow that which he is against? So you really feel like God is telling people to accept and be ok with the sin of homosexuality when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorah for that very reason? Seems like common sense goes down the drain, but ok, let's move on


2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.
("Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation")
So if you knew anything about the bible you would know that man made laws that existed in Moses time were done away with


Colossians 2:14 (KJV) said:
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;)
The reason for this? The Israelites that were held in captivity were used to the Egyptian laws of the land and became accustomed to them. They lost they way from the Lord (whose laws existed before any of this happened) so the old written laws were written to help guide them back to the Lord's laws

Ordinances from the Hebrew translates to "law" The old laws written that were handwritten were done away with a new laws were instilled for the Jews/Christians to follow. So where am I going with this? Separation of church and state, are you familiar with that? Some of the laws that exist in our world now (such as the passing law of homosexual marriage) are not of the power/authority of God. Some of the typical laws (such as being punished for stealing, killing, etc.) are of him but others aren't.


3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

("For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same") This should be pretty self explanatory. Do you know which works of God are good? Because none are evil. Another thing you should looking at is "do that which is good" but in order to understand that, you must know what is good in God's eyes. So I don't really see why you're quoting stuff you don't know



4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.
(For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.)

Seems to be a paradox in the translation. Like I stated, the King James Version is the closest to the original Hebrew, let's substitute they for he. Who was the one who died for our sins? Jesus. Who has the power to wipe away our sins? Jesus. So "Jesus" is the he that they are referring to here because Jesus represents everything that is good. There is a a they though actually found in verse 6


Roman 13:6 said:
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
In order to be one of (God's) Ministers, you be baptized and ordained, pretty sure they people that pass laws for homosexuality fit neither one of this criteria

5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.
(Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.) You might not understand this, so let me translate so you can; Therefore, you must obey just not to face the anger (of God) but also for your soul's sake. (You can look up the Hebrew words for wherefore, subject, wrath and conscience). This means that you should not just obey God's laws so you don't face his wrath but to follow them to keep your spirit pure and free of corruption


This scripture declares that God has instated the governing authorities
No, the scripture is telling you that God instated the governing authorities to follow his word. There is a difference between the government of the land and government of Christians

Mark 12:17 (KJV) said:
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Meaning that follow the laws of the land but keep his word as well. If you cannot do the former, then you must do the latter as in the beginning, the word was of God.

He said "Do not do wrong" in reference to disobeying said authorities
In order for you to understand that which you've quoted, you must understand what is wrong in God's eyes which is something you don't seem to understand

showing that God views breaking the law of the governing authorities as wrong. By going against the authority that God instated, as he himself said he did, she is going against her religious beliefs.
Ok, since you like to misinterpret the bible so much, quote in the bible tell me what the new laws are that we are supposed to follow according to God. Not only did you misinterpret Romans 13:1, you're saying that God said we were suppose to follow ALL the laws of the land (which I already debunked)



There are, however, two arguments I've seen against this reasoning, but both backfire. One is that the scripture does not apply to laws that contradict God's standards and declarations.
Assuming that you know the laws, because you seem like you don't know what they are. God laws don't contradict seeing as how God's laws existed way before these times from the jump

John 1:1 (KJV) said:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Word" in the Hebrew in this sentence translates to doctrine which is synonymous to laws or ordinances


So if a law permits you to murder, or rape, or steal, you can't follow it. If that's the case, then she should not be in this position. If the career requires you to do something that goes against God's law, then you cannot be a part of that career. If that is the case, then it is not her place to deny these people their marriage licenses, but to quit.
I agree


The other, as you have said, is that the scripture no longer applies to modern day society. It is outdated, the standard no longer applies, and applied to a society of long ago. That means that a part of God's word, standards that God saw as good, have become obsolete. And even more strongly, they have become wrong because following them now would be wrong, due to them being obsolete. This makes the scriptures and the concept of God as a whole flawed. God is supposed to be a perfect being. Then how can his standards ever become obsolete and outdated; his standards should be perfect.
Lemme post it again


John 1:1(KJV) said:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
God's law always existed. The hand written ordinances were made for the Israelites who were held in captivity and became accustom to the Egyptian laws. The hand written ordinances were only made to prevent the Israelites from sinning because they knew not of the laws of God. After they gained more understanding of following they ways of the lord, the hand written ordinances were done away with and God's original doctrine (the new laws) came to light. It's just like in math. Most of what you learn in Calculus will not use the basic laws of addition. However, there may be problems where addition is needed. Even though Calculus has done away with using basic addition to solve more advance problems, it doesn't mean that some problems will not need it

The Bible is supposed to be infallible and indefinite, as it comes from God. Then how can parts of it be obsolete, useless, and not worthy of following in modern day society? If standards can become obsolete, then how do you know that some of the standards you still have haven't become obsolete, but you can't realized because you maintain usage? How do you know it all hasn't become obsolete?
Answered all of this above


Don't know why an atheist is trying to use the bible to prove a point against a Christian when he doesn't even understand the context, let alone believe that there is a God anyway :|
 
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It looks like there is a law that bans freedom of speech against homosexuality so it seems. What hypocrisy.
Or, she was jailed because she intentionally refused to do her job, scratch that, her government appointed job in protest to something that's not going to be changed. She got what she deserved.
 
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