[Discussion] Why Tobirama was wrong, and how it could have been done better.

ANiMUS

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Hands down Tobirama was the best Hokage that Konohagakure ever had. He implemented many institutions organized the village without a doubt the most logical and capable Hokage. Even so there was one big mistake that Tobirama made. Yep, the Uchiha clan.:sweat:

From a logical stand point what tobirama did could be seen as right, but it lacked empathy and long term insight. Yes, the Uchiha are an oversensitive and prideful clan, but all Tobirama's plan did was make it worse. By setting them on the outskirts of the village it impeded integration with the village and by giving them the authority of being police not only did it cause them to be criticized as police often are, increased their idea of self importance as well.

Tobirama should have put in effort to fix the condition with the Uchiha rather than just find a stop gap solution. It would not have been easy, but it would have been worth it to benefit the entire village.

Now a lot of you will probably ask what would I have done in his situation so:

First, I would try to push integration starting with the schools to influence the youths and how the village is top priority even ahead of clan duties.

Both the Uchiha, Senju, and all other clans are equally important, so no hierarchy.

Its maybe a pain, but the Hokage should try to maintain good relations with all clans. Especially the clan leaders.

The police force should not just be exclusive to one clan and should be seen as a goal to be aimed toward in the academy, but only those that demonstrate exceptional skill and the correct mindset should be chosen. These shinobi should be tutored in the special jutsu of the Leaf and presiding over this faction should be Kagami Uchiha as well as other well known shinobi hand selected by Kagami.

The duties of serving the village and Itachi's Hokage mindset adapted from Kagami and Shisui should be drilled into these shinobi along with training from the staff. (Kagami's role is not only to provide the ideal mindset and aid in training, but also to give the shinobi special training against fighting Uchiha.)

From this the elite among this group special ops shinobi will be selected who take orders exclusively from the Hokage and as they learn and grow in skill. It is from this pool which the next Hokage is chosen through the votes of the Hokage, Elders, and Jounin and above.

With this plan you integrate the village, take methods to increase the relations with older clansmen, create a new generation were the village is put above clan and self, you create a police force trained by an Elite Uchiha to take down Uchiha, and create a system where shinobi can advance via their own merit under the watchful eye of ideal role models.

Everything is ideally fair and democratic.:yayy:
 
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Mari Makinami

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No one is perfect. Tobirama was still the best hokage among 5.
 

BlacLord™

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The Uchiha were starting to feel ostracised anyway, the Police Force was given to them as a sign of trust but they still wanted more. The options were either:

a) Do a Danzou and just slaughter them.
b) Try and make use of them.

He chose B but it was still turning out to be inevitable anyway, he was just putting the village's majority's safety first. And you can't deny that the Uchiha's pride made them a little arrogant and they thought of themselves as superior to all other clans.
 

ANiMUS

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No one is perfect. Tobirama was still the best hokage among 5.

Yep, agreed he did the best he could think of at the time also with Hokage paperwork and wars, the dude had other priorities.
The Uchiha were starting to feel ostracised anyway, the Police Force was given to them as a sign of trust but they still wanted more. The options were either:

a) Do a Danzou and just slaughter them.
b) Try and make use of them.

He chose B but it was still turning out to be inevitable anyway, he was just putting the village's majority's safety first. And you can't deny that the Uchiha's pride made them a little arrogant and they thought of themselves as superior to all other clans.

They didn't feel ostracized until after the kyuubi incident. Tobirama just noticed they weren't all emotionally stable.
 
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dark legion

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he was just trying to reduce their infiltration on Village destiny ... You see He was trying to weak them - isolate them from other clans( so other clans don't join with uchiha) , so their revolution have no effects,( he predicted that they will revolt ), and with this , and It doesn't harm other clans,...

even that he gave them some privileges ,,, only to hold them and gain more time ... What he did was good , He just gain time , for a better strategy by other generations .

Madara said that once a senju becomes Hokage after Hashi.. the revolution will start ... Tobirama had a good strategy ...xd
 

Tobby17

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what ppl don't understand is that Tobirama was very weary of the Uchiha, it wasn't just Madara that was crazy and he had a point, one recent manga scan that really got to me was this

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Madara says here that he wasn't the only one who was thinking of stealing Senju power, and this was while he was still in the village mind you, meaning even after the peace treaty between this two clans and being in a single village, there were still Uchihas who were only planning on having Senju dna and getting power.

So these guys were obviously crazy, I mean how else can you get Senju dna if you were planning on killing/stealing it??.. just shows how these people are, and Tobirama was right to keep them at a distance and yet close enough
 

Murasame

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what ppl don't understand is that Tobirama was very weary of the Uchiha, it wasn't just Madara that was crazy and he had a point, one recent manga scan that really got to me was this

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Madara says here that he wasn't the only one who was thinking of stealing Senju power, and this was while he was still in the village mind you, meaning even after the peace treaty between this two clans and being in a single village, there were still Uchihas who were only planning on having Senju dna and getting power.

So these guys were obviously crazy, I mean how else can you get Senju dna if you were planning on killing/stealing it??.. just shows how these people are, and Tobirama was right to keep them at a distance and yet close enough

No he was referring to Kabuto.
 

ANiMUS

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what ppl don't understand is that Tobirama was very weary of the Uchiha, it wasn't just Madara that was crazy and he had a point, one recent manga scan that really got to me was this

You must be registered for see images


Madara says here that he wasn't the only one who was thinking of stealing Senju power, and this was while he was still in the village mind you, meaning even after the peace treaty between this two clans and being in a single village, there were still Uchihas who were only planning on having Senju dna and getting power.

So these guys were obviously crazy, I mean how else can you get Senju dna if you were planning on killing/stealing it??.. just shows how these people are, and Tobirama was right to keep them at a distance and yet close enough

That was Kabuto genius.
Accomplice-Obito
Acquaintance-Kabuto
 

Tobby17

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That was Kabuto genius.
Accomplice-Obito
Acquaintance-Kabuto

eh?. but Madara did place Hashirama's cell on himself long ago, and that's how he awakened his rinnegan, am I missing something??..
 

ANiMUS

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eh?. but Madara did place Hashirama's cell on himself long ago, and that's how he awakened his rinnegan, am I missing something??..

He meant the face, ya know on his chest
 

BlacLord™

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That was Kabuto genius.
Accomplice-Obito
Acquaintance-Kabuto
No, that would be impossible.

Kabuto wasn't even born when Madara was shown the idea of implanting DNA, and had done so himself before Kabuto was born.

They were talking about Madara after leaving Konoha.

I jumped to the same conclusion at first too, but if you read the page carefully, you should catch on.
 

ANiMUS

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No, that would be impossible.

Kabuto wasn't even born when Madara was shown the idea of implanting DNA, and had done so himself before Kabuto was born.

They were talking about Madara after leaving Konoha.

I jumped to the same conclusion at first too, but if you read the page carefully, you should catch on.

Madara implanted the DNA, Orochimaru and Kabuto perfected it hence the Danzo Hashi face. They reworked the Dude's corpse
 

Tobby17

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Reread chapter 560 lol

no, if you read well you'll understand what's really going on there.

Madara tells Hashirama that whoever can control both the Uchiha and Senju power shall come to know ''ecstacy''. Hashirama says, so you got involved in a lot of Nefarious activities after leaving the village, but Madara says ''NO'', it was while he (Madara) was still at the village that he got involved in these activities, and he (Madara) apparently wasn't the only one who had such ideas (to control both Uchiha and Senju powers), some of his acquaintances also had the same idea
 

Murasame

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no, if you read well you'll understand what's really going on there.

Madara tells Hashirama that whoever can control both the Uchiha and Senju power shall come to know ''ecstacy''. Hashirama says, so you got involved in a lot of Nefarious activities after leaving the village, but Madara says ''NO'', it was while he (Madara) was still at the village that he got involved in these activities, and he (Madara) apparently wasn't the only one who had such ideas (to control both Uchiha and Senju powers), some of his acquaintances also had the same idea

Lmao what?
@bold I'm not following you here.. I don't see where this is closely implied in that scan.
He said an acquaintance of an underling.. the underling being Obito so that means the acquaintance is Kabuto. Like I said reread chapter 560
 
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Tobby17

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Lmao what?
@bold I'm not following you here.. I don't see where this is closely implied in that scan.
He said an acquaintance of an underling.. the underling being Obito so that means the acquaintance is Kabuto. Like I said reread chapter 560

So Madara didn't know he had Hashi on his boobs all b4 Kabuto told him???.. is that what you're implying?
 

ANiMUS

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So Madara didn't know he had Hashi on his boobs all b4 Kabuto told him???.. is that what you're implying?
Yup, Thats what he is implying. Remember Kabuto said that he made him better than he was in his prime
 

Murasame

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So Madara didn't know he had Hashi on his boobs all b4 Kabuto told him???.. is that what you're implying?

Does it look like I am?

Edit: you need to refresh your memory on reading these chapters. [ ][ ]
 
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Touken

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What Tobirama did was necessary.
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'Madara's will was secretly shared by quite a few...'

Plus, as pointed out above, the Uchiha didn't feel ostracized until the Kurama incident. Obito sealed off the Uchiha's fate, not Tobirama.
 
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