Why Tobirama is superior to Kisame in Suiton

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Anbu, top shinobi, were also amazed suiton could be used without a water source. A LOT of things change. No one is remotely surprised by that in the second half of Naruto. I see what you're trying to do, and you guys need to halt your actions. I'm all fine and dandy when/if Tobirama reveals a suiton of comparable sizes. But, until then. Quiet yourselves.

Such a topic is obvious. Kisame has larger, and more deadly suiton based ninjutsu.

Ey, we're just listing what is manga fact here, you're getting very defensive on this (Not surprised, he is one of your faves. Heck, he's mine too, you know he is.)

Exactly, a lot of things do change, and the fact that Tobirama wasn't operating at his full power has to be noted plus the fact it's part two. No one would've believed me if I told a person who'd only read part one that part 2 Kisame literally beats every single person in part 1, even Itachi. .

 

[Fodder#4]

Ey, we're just listing what is manga fact here, you're getting very defensive on this (Not surprised, he is one of your faves. Heck, he's mine too, you know he is.)

Exactly, a lot of things do change, and the fact that Tobirama wasn't operating at his full power has to be noted plus the fact it's part two. No one would've believed me if I told a person who'd only read part one that part 2 Kisame literally beats every single person in part 1, even Itachi. .

We both know how underrated Kisame is around here; while some do realize what he is capable of a majority of people believe that the likes of Kakashi, Itachi, and a select few Hidan could stomp and or beat him. Naturally I am. And Yes, I know for a fact he is...One of yours as well.


A lot of things do change, yes. But the fact that Tobirama is more orientated towards S/t jutsu could be Kishi's way of saying that's how he fights. His thing. A suiton jutsu here or there, but it could be another infamous retconn On Kishi's part.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

We both know how underrated Kisame is around here; while some do realize what he is capable of a majority of people believe that the likes of Kakashi, Itachi, and a select few Hidan could stomp and or beat him. Naturally I am. And Yes, I know for a fact he is...One of yours as well.


A lot of things do change, yes. But the fact that Tobirama is more orientated towards S/t jutsu could be Kishi's way of saying that's how he fights. His thing. A suiton jutsu here or there, but it could be another infamous retconn On Kishi's part.

You are absolutely right, that may very well be the direction he wishes to take, all we're saying is that him displaying something as deadly as Kisame is not far-fetched. The links we've posted are manga P.H.A.C.T that cannot be refuted.

 

[RNITBmsage]

best suiton user
by hype tobirama
by feats kisame
at the moment kisame is the better suiton user
it isn't fair to disregard his accomplishments and just hop on the tobirama bandwaon due to hype
as of now kisame has shown more skill in suiton usage than anyone else bar none

 

[ItachiStillSolos]

We both know how underrated Kisame is around here; while some do realize what he is capable of a majority of people believe that the likes of Kakashi, Itachi, and a select few Hidan could stomp and or beat him. Naturally I am. And Yes, I know for a fact he is...One of yours as well.

I don't underrate him, he's number 10 in my Top 10 but Itachi>Kisame (High diff.) U_U

 

[4th Lord Hokage]

i just have this odd feeling like theres gonna be a thread any minute now saying how kisame is better then tobirama in suiton jutsu's

 

[Fodder#4]

You are absolutely right, that may very well be the direction he wishes to take, all we're saying is that him displaying something as deadly as Kisame is not far-fetched. The links we've posted are manga P.H.A.C.T that cannot be refuted.

Facts that in the part that was, for the most, switched around and altered. Kisame is worse then Tobirama is suiton. And he was never returned to full power. That's it.

And refuted? A bottle of Johnny Walker Black will allow me to not only refuse this information, but forget it!

I don't underrate him, he's number 10 in my Top 10 but Itachi>Kisame (High diff.) U_U

He usually does. I'd credit it to Totsuka and a sly genjutsu strike.

i just have this odd feeling like theres gonna be a thread any minute now saying how kisame is better then tobirama in suiton jutsu's

Nah, for those few who like Kisame... We aren't petty enough to truly do that. I'll argue on this for a few days, maybe. But to make a spite thread? What do I look like, a Minato or Itachi fan?

 

[Nikes]

You're trying to dispute this point which frankly holds zero merit, trying to argue that Orochimaru somehow knows the techniques of a man dead over for over 50 years.



And Tobirama showed two, I'm just Saiyan.

Gotcha. And no, we'd need to see just how much Haku would've advanced to say, though like I said, he was exceptional.

Exactly, we're just making a simple thread here.

So many jimmies have been rustled by one thread.

You said that Tobirama was watered down and compared Hashiramas current abilities to what he used when he was edo.

Which isn't a good point. Orochimaru was controlling them, and you said he "brainwashed" them. If they were ONLY brainwashed they should be able to make their own moves. But they didn't or else they wouldn't have attacked Hiruzen.

So long story short you can't say Tobirama was more proficient with Suiton than Kisame is and that he has more powerful Suiton. It hasn't been shown yet so it is pure speculation.

Kisame on the other hand HAS shown his advanced Suiton usage. Tobirama can use suiton with no water nearby, but so could Kisame at a higher level (that's been shown) until proven otherwise Sution proficiency: Kisame>Tobirama

 

[ItachiStillSolos]

i just have this odd feeling like theres gonna be a thread any minute now saying how kisame is better then tobirama in suiton jutsu's

There already is Lol

You must be registered for see links

Facts that in the part that was, for the most, switched around and altered. Kisame is worse then Tobirama is suiton. And he was never returned to full power. That's it.

And refuted? A bottle of Johnny Walker Black will allow me to not only refuse this information, but forget it!


He usually does. I'd credit it to Totsuka and a sly genjutsu strike.

Yeah Kisame's speed is rather lackluster. Imo it goes to whoever uses their oneshots first U_U

I posted that because you made it seem thinking Itachi>Kisame is absurd when it isn't U_U

 

[raziel777]

Credit Kaaant for this as well; he might add some stuff.

Clearly, people can't make inference for shit so let me explain.

Here are two techniques from part 1:

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(same argument can be made for Suijinheki)
Hand seals required: 44
Rank: B-Rank

Tobirama uses it with just 1 hand seal

You must be registered for see links

Hand seals required: 10
Rank: B-Rank

Kisame still uses all hand seals and its his own variant of Suiton. The thing here is is that they're both B-Rank; the difficulty to perform these techniques are relative. And let's not forget Tobirama wasn't even brought back at full power then. [

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]

I might get a lot of shit for this thread but meh >_>

Itachi used one hand to make his katon... Yet Obito/Madara's fire style are way better.. When they used both their hands..

Bad logic

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Yes, part 1 edo Tobirama was Jounin level. So was Hashirama. Look what happened to Hashirama.

nothing? hashirama was quite clearly toying with hiruzen and if he felt like it, could make wood gods at will. only reason he got sealed is orochimaru made him stand there and get grabbed rather than wood spike hiruzens clone

They were weakened and he was still able to do that jutsu with 1 seal. Then we saw what a non-weakened, living Hashirama could do (VoTE), and then apply it to Tobirama under the same context.

we have no idea to what extent they were "weakened"

agreed, he can create water without any water source needed

nothing new. yamato kakashi and darui can

Kisame had wide-scale jutsus while Tobirama seems to be able to perform some of the same jutsus as Kisame, faster than Kisame.

wrong

No shit. But the fact still remains that a 20%-50% Tobirama was more efficient at completing a B-Rank Suiton technique than Kisame and Kisame was using his own variant.

no kisame used a high level suiton (very high level) with one seal. nothing suiton wise is more advanced than that. and where did you pull those nmbers from? 20%? my ass. you made that up.

 

[Xāvî1]

Credit Kaaant for this as well; he might add some stuff.

Clearly, people can't make inference for shit so let me explain.

Here are two techniques from part 1:

You must be registered for see links

(same argument can be made for Suijinheki)
Hand seals required: 44
Rank: B-Rank

Tobirama uses it with just 1 hand seal

You must be registered for see links

Hand seals required: 10
Rank: B-Rank

Kisame still uses all hand seals and its his own variant of Suiton. The thing here is is that they're both B-Rank; the difficulty to perform these techniques are relative. And let's not forget Tobirama wasn't even brought back at full power then. [

You must be registered for see links

]

I might get a lot of shit for this thread but meh >_>

Then What about Daikodan and Dai Bakusui Shōha???

 

[Fodder#4]

There already is Lol

You must be registered for see links

Yeah Kisame's speed is rather lackluster. Imo it goes to whoever uses their oneshots first U_U

I posted that because you made it seem thinking Itachi>Kisame is absurd when it isn't U_U

The "Stomp" is reserved for Itachi. Some believe he can stomp him.... Not... No... That's where I was coming from. Itachi will win a slight more amount of times then Kisame. But, I would never say Kisame doesn't have the shot to win.

 

[VangBro95]

Kisame by feats
Tobirama by hype

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

You said that Tobirama was watered down and compared Hashiramas current abilities to what he used when he was edo.

Which isn't a good point. Orochimaru was controlling them, and you said he "brainwashed" them. If they were ONLY brainwashed they should be able to make their own moves. But they didn't or else they wouldn't have attacked Hiruzen.

So long story short you can't say Tobirama was more proficient with Suiton than Kisame is and that he has more powerful Suiton. It hasn't been shown yet so it is pure speculation.

Kisame on the other hand HAS shown his advanced Suiton usage. Tobirama can use suiton with no water nearby, but so could Kisame at a higher level (that's been shown) until proven otherwise Sution proficiency: Kisame>Tobirama

You seem to have misinterpreted the manga and assume that Orochimaru directly orders his Edos to perform their Jutsu right at the moment they use it, this isn't the case.

You are either unwilling or unable to read the Op and recognise we are going by Part one feats here.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

And Tobirama showed two, I'm just Saiyan.

Gotcha. And no, we'd need to see just how much Haku would've advanced to say, though like I said, he was exceptional.

Exactly, we're just making a simple thread here.

So many jimmies have been rustled by one thread.

Tobirama only showed two, yet he got the amazing part 1 feat of creating his own water source.

ET Haku still showed no sign of any suiton feats with his unlimited chakra that would of suggested any superb advancement that would put him above Kisame as far as suiton. Not to mention, even Part 1 Itachi's suiton feat > Kisames [

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] I'm sorry, I just find this reasoning as to why Tobiramas suiton being superior to Kisames to be out right horrible.

Yes, part 1 edo Tobirama was Jounin level. So was Hashirama. Look what happened to Hashirama. Now watch what happens to Tobirama in 3 hours (when the manga comes out). It won't be as great as Hashirama's power up, but compare able.

Okay, so then what was your point in saying 100% Haku outclasses part 1 ET Tobirama? In fact, not only did Kisame create a massive lake at 30% of his original chakra in part 2, but he was also able to create 5 shark bombs with a single seal [

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] apposed to the amount it took him in part 1 to create a single shark bomb.

And you're getting off topic. The point of this thread, in my understanding, is to prove Tobirama>Kisame in suiton, based on part 1 feats alone. I'm well aware of the possibilities that Tobirama may very well be superior.

 

[Princessu Kaaantchan]

Tobirama only showed two, yet he got the amazing part 1 feat of creating his own water source.

ET Haku still showed no sign of any suiton feats with his unlimited chakra that would of suggested any superb advancement that would put him above Kisame as far as suiton. Not to mention, even Part 1 Itachi's suiton feat > Kisames [

You must be registered for see links

] I'm sorry, I just find this reasoning as to why Tobiramas suiton being superior to Kisames to be out right horrible.




Okay, so then what was your point in saying 100% Haku outclasses part 1 ET Tobirama? In fact, not only did Kisame create a massive lake at 30% of his original chakra in part 2, but he was also able to create 5 shark bombs with a single seal [

You must be registered for see links

] apposed to the amount it took him in part 1 to create a single shark bomb.

And you're getting off topic. The point of this thread, in my understanding, is to prove Tobirama>Kisame in suiton, based on part 1 feats alone. I'm well aware of the possibilities that Tobirama may very well be superior.

Look, I'll say again, part one Tobirama, along with Itachi have both shown to be superior to part one Kisame, you are completely ignoring this fact.

 

[Nikes]

You seem to have misinterpreted the manga and assume that Orochimaru directly orders his Edos to perform their Jutsu right at the moment they use it, this isn't the case.

You are either unwilling or unable to read the Op and recognise we are going by Part one feats here.

Recognize*

Oh ok I see.

So comparing 2 different techniques is solid basis for seeing who is more proficient in suiton? Seems legit.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Look, I'll say again, part one Tobirama, along with Itachi have both shown to be superior to part one Kisame, you are completely ignoring this fact.

I'm not ignoring anything. As you just said and as I stated above; Itachi had the better suiton feat then Kisame in part 1. So by the logic used by the OP; Since Part 1 Itachi > Kisame regarding suiton, this means Itachi should of been on Kisames level in part 2, am I correct on this or not.

 

[Nikes]

I'm not ignoring anything. As you just said and as I stated above; Itachi had the better suiton feat then Kisame in part 1. So by the logic used by the OP; Since Part 1 Itachi > Kisame regarding suiton, this means Itachi should of been on Kisames level in part 2, am I correct on this or not.

Touche.. Well done.