Why Tobirama is a great counter to Itachi

[Owarij]

Itachi gave us a pretty nice description about Izanami. Did you read it? And my bad about being hit by Totsuka sword. What I meant to say was that Tobirama cannot be sealed because the sword has not shown the ability to seal a moving target. Why even argue about Itachi's chakra? After 3 MS Techniques, and a couple minutes in Susano'o he is sweating bullets and is about ready to die. That is not exactly great chakra.z

Edit: Me using the anime is a source. If Kishimoto or whatever does not like it, he can void the contract he signed with whatever company airs the show, and then I will not use it as a source.

All itachi gave us was a description of what the jutsu was created for in the first place, that doesn't mean that that's the only circumstance the jutsu can be used..

After 3 MS Techniques, and a couple minutes in Susano'o he is sweating bullets and is about ready to die. That is not exactly great chakra.z

Eh? we must be reading something else..
I recall him using a crow clone (which takes almost 50% of the users chakra to go meet sasuke and tell him where to come), then a genjutsu, followed by tsukyomi, 1 katon, 1 amaterasu, another one or two amaterasu's , susanno and then a final transcription seal + amaterasu again

And he still was not out of chakra... Other wise Sasuke would have seen and noted it, just like Itachi told Sasuke he was just about out


Itachi has horrible stamina , but the combination of his chakra control and normally above average uchiha chakra reserves(he was able to use the coming of age fire jutsu at a younger age than Sasuke, According to kakashi genins(Age 12) normally don't have enough chakra for a katon..meaning itachi since a child and all/most uchihas have above average reserves


Not even going to argue the anime thing.... Hashirama used it in the manga, the anime company which kishi has practically nothing to do with made tobirama do it

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

Tobirama does not canonically possess the bringer of darkness. Tsukuyomi one-shots him, as does Amaterasu. Itachi's Suiton is countered by Itachi's Katon; Amaterasu can even be utilized to extinguish all the water in the area since it's extremely hot. In addition to this, the Sharingan allows one to perceive illusions. [SUP][

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][/SUP] Read it's second most prominent ability. What you also seem to forget is that Itachi has had a mastered three tomoe Sharingan since age 8. Age 8. He won't fall prey to such Genjutsu. In fact, he won't at all, since Tobirama does not even possess Bringer of Darkness in the Manga. Pitiful.

Itachi has caught kage-level and above tier opponents off. He can merely induce Genjutsu upon them and finish them with the Totsuka. Moreover, Tobirama has not shown enough fire-power to counter Itachi's mighty Susano'o.

Just because Itachi's Chakra reserves are poor, that does not imply he can't last long; he out-lasted Sasuke. He has very, very good control over his Chakra.

Regarding Tobirama's S/T, we have yet to see what it actually entails. Therefore, for now, we exclude the S/T argument.

Itachi takes this with medium difficulty until we learn more about Tobirama.​

​

Just want to point out that Suiton > Katon when matched up. Also, the Bringer of Darkness technique comment is correct...Anime gave it to Tobirama. Manga gave it to Hashirama.

Anyways, as he said, Totsuka has not been seen to hit a moving or evading, or even a defending target for that matter. Orochimaru assumed he'd be fine with Snake Skin. Nagato was blinded by debris and was being directly controlled by Kabuto so he just stood there. Amaterasu has been seen to be a jutsu that is dodgeable...even if Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, he still hit him with it apparantly knowing that Sasuke could survive it.

It has been said that Tobirama could use large scale Suiton without the presence of Water...therefore his water supply can't be steamed out.

Furthermore, Susanoo's weak point is underground attacks that come imbetween Itachi and Susanoo. If an attack is imbetween a person and his shield...the shield cannot block the attack. Being said, it does not gurentee this method works.

Also, outlasting Sasuke, and outlasting a war era Senju are two entirely different scenarios, but yes, Itachi has excellent chakra control; however, the problem of stamina still remains. Especially if one incorporates his illness!

Finally, a war era Senju spent his whole life fighting the Uchiha....he would have expirience against Genjutsu, and considering Madara had Susanoo (requiring Amaterasu/Tsukiyomi) he would have expirienced it before.

Saying that Tobirama is beaten with Mid-diff is just embarrasing to the name of Hokage....all of which were increadibly powerful, and would be a challenge probably anyone in the Narutoverse to challenge save maybee Hashirama (a Hokage) and Edo Madara (who has cells of the First Hokage)...



OT: Tobirama isn't a perfect counter; however, he certainly does have some advantages!

 

[Sexy Steel]

foolishness,
tobirama staring into sasuke's MS like nothing, quite obvious he will get tsukyomi'd

 

[Waltz]

Just want to point out that Suiton > Katon when matched up. Also, the Bringer of Darkness technique comment is correct...Anime gave it to Tobirama. Manga gave it to Hashirama.

Anyways, as he said, Totsuka has not been seen to hit a moving or evading, or even a defending target for that matter. Orochimaru assumed he'd be fine with Snake Skin. Nagato was blinded by debris and was being directly controlled by Kabuto so he just stood there. Amaterasu has been seen to be a jutsu that is dodgeable...even if Itachi wasn't trying to kill Sasuke, he still hit him with it apparantly knowing that Sasuke could survive it.

It has been said that Tobirama could use large scale Suiton without the presence of Water...therefore his water supply can't be steamed out.

Furthermore, Susanoo's weak point is underground attacks that come imbetween Itachi and Susanoo. If an attack is imbetween a person and his shield...the shield cannot block the attack. Being said, it does not gurentee this method works.

Also, outlasting Sasuke, and outlasting a war era Senju are two entirely different scenarios, but yes, Itachi has excellent chakra control; however, the problem of stamina still remains. Especially if one incorporates his illness!

Finally, a war era Senju spent his whole life fighting the Uchiha....he would have expirience against Genjutsu, and considering Madara had Susanoo (requiring Amaterasu/Tsukiyomi) he would have expirienced it before.

Saying that Tobirama is beaten with Mid-diff is just embarrasing to the name of Hokage....all of which were increadibly powerful, and would be a challenge probably anyone in the Narutoverse to challenge save maybee Hashirama (a Hokage) and Edo Madara (who has cells of the First Hokage)...



OT: Tobirama isn't a perfect counter; however, he certainly does have some advantages!

Totsuka is an ethereal weapon, just like the weapons wielded by Sasuke and Madara's susano'o and Tobirama has no defenses that could even remotely defend against something like totsuka and his reflexes are not accounted for in the manga as anything spectacular being easily caught by Hiruzens slow Kagebunshin. Nagato wasn't blinded by the debris, He already has the ability to sense a change in air pressure prior to itachi using his Doujutsu affiliates. Kabuto anticipated the attack via nagato and gave him the command to move but he lacked mobility and failed to move in time. Your crazy to think that Tobirama's Suiton would counter a combination of Itachi's Katon and Amaterasu, it should be self explanatory. @ the bold, Itachi's Tsukuyomi is no regular genjutsu/tsukuyomi and Tobirama has shown no counter for a regular genjutsu much less itachi's Tsukuyomi. Just like the OP Your also speculating on Tobirama's behalf with no actual proof. Itachi takes this Low diff if we include Izanami.

 

[KingHashirama]

Tobirama does not canonically possess the bringer of darkness. Tsukuyomi one-shots him, as does Amaterasu. Itachi's Suiton is countered by Itachi's Katon; Amaterasu can even be utilized to extinguish all the water in the area since it's extremely hot. In addition to this, the Sharingan allows one to perceive illusions. [SUP][

You must be registered for see links

][/SUP] Read it's second most prominent ability. What you also seem to forget is that Itachi has had a mastered three tomoe Sharingan since age 8. Age 8. He won't fall prey to such Genjutsu. In fact, he won't at all, since Tobirama does not even possess Bringer of Darkness in the Manga. Pitiful.

Itachi has caught kage-level and above tier opponents off. He can merely induce Genjutsu upon them and finish them with the Totsuka. Moreover, Tobirama has not shown enough fire-power to counter Itachi's mighty Susano'o.

Just because Itachi's Chakra reserves are poor, that does not imply he can't last long; he out-lasted Sasuke. He has very, very good control over his Chakra.

Regarding Tobirama's S/T, we have yet to see what it actually entails. Therefore, for now, we exclude the S/T argument.

Itachi takes this with medium difficulty until we learn more about Tobirama.​

​

Manga has not disagreed with the anime =]. So he does have Bringer Darkness buddy.

Yikes. Do not use anime as an argument.

EDIT: You do know that other people (artists and writers) work on the anime, while Kishi works on the manga? Non-Kishi = non-cannonical

Needs to be approved by Kishimoto.

Anime and Manga are canons. Of course your going with what the crowd says... But noone has any proof of Kishimoto saying its not canon.

 

[slaton02]

How is an anime episode of the manga not cannon? I hate when people say anime version of it's manga chapter isn't cannon.

We know little about Tobirama and the OP wants to use anime so let him and get over it or gtfo. It's like someone banning tailed beast power in a vs. thread, play along or leave.

 

[Penguin]

Totsuka is an ethereal weapon, just like the weapons wielded by Sasuke and Madara's susano'o and Tobirama has no defenses that could even remotely defend against something like totsuka and his reflexes are not accounted for in the manga as anything spectacular being easily caught by Hiruzens slow Kagebunshin. Nagato wasn't blinded by the debris, He already has the ability to sense a change in air pressure prior to itachi using his Doujutsu affiliates. Kabuto anticipated the attack via nagato and gave him the command to move but he lacked mobility and failed to move in time. Your crazy to think that Tobirama's Suiton would counter a combination of Itachi's Katon and Amaterasu, it should be self explanatory. @ the bold, Itachi's Tsukuyomi is no regular genjutsu/tsukuyomi and Tobirama has shown no counter for a regular genjutsu much less itachi's Tsukuyomi. Just like the OP Your also speculating on Tobirama's behalf with no actual proof. Itachi takes this Low diff if we include Izanami.

You must not know about Izanami. If you accept your actions the jutsu is lifted. Tobirama, from what the manga suggests (risking his life for Hiruzen, wanting to save the Allied Shinobi Forces from Madara) is a good person, and would accept his actions. Whatever they may be. In the OP I said anime facts were allowed, and if you do not like it, get off. He can use bringer of darkness, so Tsukyomi or whatever is countered, and amaterasu is countered.

 

[Waltz]

You must not know about Izanami. If you accept your actions the jutsu is lifted. Tobirama, from what the manga suggests (risking his life for Hiruzen, wanting to save the Allied Shinobi Forces from Madara) is a good person, and would accept his actions. Whatever they may be. In the OP I said anime facts were allowed, and if you do not like it, get off. He can use bringer of darkness, so Tsukyomi or whatever is countered, and amaterasu is countered.

Its clear that you are not detailed on the partularies of Itachi's Doujutsu. Itachi determines the what is to be accepted inside of the opponents own being and it is optional whether or not he directly states what is to be accepted. Itachi's Mangekyou would easily break out of or even reverse regular genjutsu like bringer of darkness, which was stated prior in this thread as one of the Sharingan's advantages. Your argument is non-canonical and majority of it speculation; shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[KidGamer65]

Manga has not disagreed with the anime =]. So he does have Bringer Darkness buddy.


Needs to be approved by Kishimoto.

Anime and Manga are canons. Of course your going with what the crowd says... But noone has any proof of Kishimoto saying its not canon.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks anime is canon is a massive retard. Canon is what the author put in his manga, Kishi didn't put Tobirama using Bringer of Darkness thus it isn't canon, anyone who thinks otherwise should learn to deal with it.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Give Itachi some Senju DNA and it's all over

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

tobirama is only a threat with anime only feats. itachi fodderises him

Itachi has the worst chakra reserves in the Akatsuki. The Senju are known for there stamina and physical prowess

uchihas were known for their large chakra levels. wanna know why he has bad chakra levels? he is sick and going blind. thats it. tobirama would be int he same boat if he had MS

Itachi's genjutsu. Tobirama has a big counter to Itachi's genjutsu, The Bringer of Darkness

that is his brother's genjutsu. tobirama hasnt shown shit

Well, Tobirama is not evil like Kabuto

being evil isnt why your in izanami. its when people spam izanagi. izanami forces them to accept the outcome and stop running from destiny. kabuto is trying to run from himself by absorbing others and acting arrogant and invincible. part 1 kabuto cannot be in izanami.

Well guess what. It has NEVER been shown to be able to hit a moving target. It has hit Orochimaru, who was sitting there

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. Or being reguritated there.

kabuto (controlling nagato) could hardly react to it. its obviously a fast attack

Itachi has pretty good taijutsu, considering he was matching KM Naruto and Killer Bee in a taijutsu fight,

they were basically clowning around with him. bee was in base. not even getting into hachibi chakra. km naruto was unabel to use clones, his main fighting move

us Tobirama is a sensor and does not need to see his enemy to attack him

he does have to move. if hes in genjutsu he cant

 

[VongolaX]

Using non canon material
using a character with almost no relevant feats

basically the thread was filled with speculation, speculation of tobiramas s/t , speculation that totsuka mirror can't hit a moving target (Which btw is ridiculous, considering totsuka sword is attached to susanno which can move at very fast speeds), speculation on izanami, when not enough was stated of izanami to make certain of how it works or can potentially work, Nothing was ever stated about itachi's chakra reserves, just he has bad stamina, he had enough chakra reserves and or chakra control/chakra to out last Sasuke in their fight.. unless you think Sasuke also has bad reserves?

Please can you go to my profile and look up the latest thread and tell the idiots there that stamina differs from chakra reserve! please, it's under the popular thread.

 

[Kurama04]

The totsuka blade is not a weak weapon, it cleaved oro's hydra heads like butter. He can kill tobirama by cutting him with it. (not saying tobi cannot counter its attack but itachi doesnt have to simply seal everything, he sealed oro because he was in hydra form, and nagato because he was edo. You have a lot of assumptions here. In fact, the only valid statement you produced isnt even specific to tobirama, so this is invalid.

I'm watching that anime too lol