[Theory] Why the Juubi's Eye does nothing for Juubi itself.

[Senju Bean]

You got the timeline wrong. First Kaguya ate the fruit. Then she gave birth to her sons. Then she went crazy and wanted to consume all the charka. Then she became one with the shinju. Then she became the Juubi.

She didn't become the juubi after eating the fruit. The fruit doesn't contain the shinju or juubi's essence, it contained all the chakra in the world.

Also you did ignore it because you don't explain how come juubi originally was a monster, since you say it's monster now only because kaguya was still sealed.

And what is the mechanism in which she took on the Juubi/Shinju as part of herself? She certianly didn't become a Jin. Because if that were the case, then the Shinju wouldn't be whispering to Madara using her voice.

There is no technique so far that allows her to fuse the Shinju into part of her own being.

It's more logical to conclude that eating the fruit fused those beings into her.


She only became the Juubi later on because the Juubi was always a part of her ever since eatting the fruit. It just never surfaced because it didn't have to until that point.


The Juubi might have been a monster before or after Kaguya was sealed, it doesn't matter. Kaguya has a way of making her will active in the world while having her soul actually sealed. E.g BZ

Manga shows that Juubi came sometime after Kaguya ate the fruit. Nothing indicates that the Juubi actually existed before the Fruit was eaten.

This hints that Kaguya created the Juubi out of the Shinju.

regardless whether that is true or not, the Juubi certainly became part of Kaguya and acts as a limb for her.

 

[Draxus]

And what is the mechanism in which she took on the Juubi/Shinju as part of herself? She certianly didn't become a Jin. Because if that were the case, then the Shinju wouldn't be whispering to Madara using her voice.

There is no technique so far that allows her to fuse the Shinju into part of her own being.

Madara absorbed the tree, why couldn't Kaguya have done that? The shinju wasn't whispering to Madara in Kaguya's voice, she was actually whispering to Madara from within the tree. Because she is one with the tree, not in the moon like you think. Of course she's not a jin, she basically became something more than human after eating the fruit, if she wasn't already before.

It's more logical to conclude that eating the fruit fused those beings into her.

That's YOUR opinion, that doesn't make it the most logical conclusion or the correct one.

She only became the Juubi later on because the Juubi was always a part of her ever since eatting the fruit. It just never surfaced because it didn't have to until that point.

Sounds like fanfiction to make your theory fit to me. You seem to be stating the Juubi is the "shinju's essence" you mentioned before, but this has already been stated in the manga to be false. The juubi didn't exist until Kaguya became one with the Shinju, so it's impossible for the juubi to be a part of Kaguya, because in reality SHE is a part of the juubi.

The Juubi might have been a monster before or after Kaguya was sealed, it doesn't matter. Kaguya has a way of making her will active in the world while having her soul actually sealed. E.g BZ

You say it doesn't matter only because it counters your theory that Kaguya's will being sealed turned the juubi into a monster.

if it doesn't matter, why make up a manga reason to explain it away? Which btw, this explains nothing. Based on your theory, the Juubi should have looked like the rabbit bijuu. Please explain why it didn't when Hag and Ham sealed it, or just admit this theory doesn't hold water.

Manga shows that Juubi came sometime after Kaguya ate the fruit. Nothing indicates that the Juubi actually existed before the Fruit was eaten.

This hints that Kaguya created the Juubi out of the Shinju.

Or... it hints that Kaguya, in her obsession to take back all the chakra, absorbed the shinju and unintentionally was turned into the juubi.

regardless whether that is true or not, the Juubi certainly became part of Kaguya and acts as a limb for her.

No it doesn't. You have this backwards. Kaguya is part of the Juubi. It doesn't act for her, it acts because of her. It's a subtle difference, but the major factor is that the Juubi isn't her agent or proxy. They are one in the same being.

 

[Floydical]

I doubt it OP.

We've been told multiple times now that essentially Kaguya = Juubi. So its not as much the Juubi is a pawn of Kaguya, but rather the Juubi and Kaguya are part of the same whole and the Juubi is simply too mindless to either know about the use of IT or have a reason to use it. In addition, assuming the eye itself is responsible for the Dimensional travel is just an assumption. Madara couldn't use it and we didn't see Kaguya using Limbo. Madara's Limbo could have just been a new normal Rinnegan tech and Kaguya's Dimensional travel may have been in her repertoire before acquiring the eye, there is simply no way to know for certain.

Again, Kaguya and the Juubi are essentially 2 parts of the same whole. The Juubi didn't get the eye from Kaguya, it always had it. But its low intelligence does not allow it to control it nor have a reason to do something crazy like cast IT.

 

[Senju Bean]

Madara absorbed the tree, why couldn't Kaguya have done that? The shinju wasn't whispering to Madara in Kaguya's voice, she was actually whispering to Madara from within the tree. Because she is one with the tree, not in the moon like you think. Of course she's not a jin, she basically became something more than human after eating the fruit, if she wasn't already before.


That's YOUR opinion, that doesn't make it the most logical conclusion or the correct one.


Sounds like fanfiction to make your theory fit to me. You seem to be stating the Juubi is the "shinju's essence" you mentioned before, but this has already been stated in the manga to be false. The juubi didn't exist until Kaguya became one with the Shinju, so it's impossible for the juubi to be a part of Kaguya, because in reality SHE is a part of the juubi.


You say it doesn't matter only because it counters your theory that Kaguya's will being sealed turned the juubi into a monster.

if it doesn't matter, why make up a manga reason to explain it away? Which btw, this explains nothing. Based on your theory, the Juubi should have looked like the rabbit bijuu. Please explain why it didn't when Hag and Ham sealed it, or just admit this theory doesn't hold water.


Or... it hints that Kaguya, in her obsession to take back all the chakra, absorbed the shinju and unintentionally was turned into the juubi.


No it doesn't. You have this backwards. Kaguya is part of the Juubi. It doesn't act for her, it acts because of her. It's a subtle difference, but the major factor is that the Juubi isn't her agent or proxy. They are one in the same being.

I do see your point. But the Fruit, being that it is all chakra, all the power in NV strongly implies that Kaguya obtained all power once she ate the Fruit.

So you are saying that she became part of the Juubi. If that is so, then the Juubi would be more powerful than Kaguya. But Kaguya is much more powerful than the Juubi.

What does that imply? That implies that Kaguya uses the Juubi to use it.


What you are saying makes sense. I am thinking that you are saying that Kaguya became part of the Juubi because it's the Juubi/Shinju's fruit that she ate so she got used by the Juubi or whatnot and fused with the Juubi to become one being.

But the fact that the FRUIT is the soure of all power implies that Kaguya came into control of everything, impling that Kaguya controls the Juubi and Shinju.


Meaning she added it to herself because what does a fruit do? it reborns the tree. Into herself.


Madara did absorb the tree, but overall, why does the Fruit, which is the source of all power mean that it is a significant addition?

It takes the Shinu 1000 years to make a Fruit. That means that the Shinju isn't nearly as powerful as the Fruit.

If the Shinju is nothing compared to the Fruit itself, then why would Kaguya bend to the Shinju's will and fuse into the same being as if they are equals after she ate the Fruit?

Kaguya, after eating the Fruit became the most powerful being in NV. So why would she become the Juubi when she is the most powerful and can make the Juubi part of herself? As she should be able to being essentially God after eating the Fruit?

 

[Draxus]

I do see your point. But the Fruit, being that it is all chakra, all the power in NV strongly implies that Kaguya obtained all power once she ate the Fruit.

So you are saying that she became part of the Juubi. If that is so, then the Juubi would be more powerful than Kaguya. But Kaguya is much more powerful than the Juubi.

What does that imply? That implies that Kaguya uses the Juubi to use it.

I'm not saying that Kagya became part of the Juubi, this is manga fact, it's undeniable!

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<--middle panel.

What you created here is a false dynamic. Just because Kaguya is a part of the Juubi, does not mean the Juubi has to be stronger than Kaguya, because the Juubi is a mindless creature. It may have just as much raw power as Kaguya, but without the smarts to use it most effectively.

What you are saying makes sense. I am thinking that you are saying that Kaguya became part of the Juubi because it's the Juubi/Shinju's fruit that she ate so she got used by the Juubi or whatnot and fused with the Juubi to become one being.

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying she absorbed the tree long after eating the fruit. She didn't get used by the Juubi, she is the Juubi.

But the fact that the FRUIT is the soure of all power implies that Kaguya came into control of everything, impling that Kaguya controls the Juubi and Shinju.

No it doesn't imply that. All it means is Kaguya had all the charka in the world after eating the fruit. She lost some of that after bearing two sons, and even more once Hag spread ninshu. So as you can see she didn't have control of everything, that's why she was obsessed with maintaining control.

Meaning she added it to herself because what does a fruit do? it reborns the tree. Into herself.

So if you eat an apple, you'll become an apple tree... You see how dumb that sounds right?

Madara did absorb the tree, but overall, why does the Fruit, which is the source of all power mean that it is a significant addition?

This run on sentence makes little sense as a question.

It takes the Shinu 1000 years to make a Fruit. That means that the Shinju isn't nearly as powerful as the Fruit.

No it doesn't. You can't just make up rules, man. It takes Shinju 1000 years for the fruit to drop, dissipate, and for the chakra to be collect again. This isn't any indication of the power of the shinju itself. The shinju's power isn't measured in chakra but it's ability to collect it.

If the Shinju is nothing compared to the Fruit itself, then why would Kaguya bend to the Shinju's will and fuse into the same being as if they are equals after she ate the Fruit?

No one ever said the Shinju was nothing compared to the fruit. You're comparing apples and oranges, the fruit is a tremendous chakra source, the tree is a tremendous charka collector. Kaguya didn't bend to the Shinju's will, the Shinju was controlled by her desire to collect all charka, which spawned the Juubi.

Kaguya, after eating the Fruit became the most powerful being in NV. So why would she become the Juubi when she is the most powerful and can make the Juubi part of herself? As she should be able to being essentially God after eating the Fruit?

She clearly wasn't as powerful after giving birth to her sons, since they took some of her chakra. She no longer had all the chakra in the world. She became the Juubi to take it all back.