Why the 2nd>4th Hokage!

[EL MAGNIFICO]

Nope ...there r flaws ...but acc to me minato = tobirama

 

[Owarij]

and why are these people too concerned about the age of kakashi when theyve got "18 years old hokage" according to you? and why did they not mention sarutubi that he is young? instead they said minato

Spoiler

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Urm maybe they weren't the daiymo's advisor back then? one of them seems young -_-

go revive the who is the youngest hokage thread..dont argue here..

 

[HokageNaruto12]

yea i think tobirama mite b stronger also

 

[LionDemon]

We don't have much info on the 2nd.
Even his name is barely mentioned.

You sir, are a minato fanboy

 

[Minator93]

IF NOTHING ELSE PLZ READ <THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN> SECTION​

EDIT NOTES:
Points that have been edited are in bold. On revision it could go either way on some points, it depends on your personal opinion. I intentionally left out the culmination of all techniques, so that you the read could decide yourself. I stand by my original post that Tobirama> Minato but it is definitely close

So following the latest chapter there has been many people re-evaluating the order in which they rank the Hokage’s of the Leaf. What I have noticed is that many people consider the nidaime hokage Tobirama to be weaker than Minato. In my opinion this is either a severe underrating of Tobirama or possible overrating of Minato. I think that the 2nd is stronger than Minato and I will explain why.

Spoiler

EDITED:<Hand-to-Hand Combat> (+1 Minato)

Spoiler

From what we have seen, Minato does not rely on his taijutsu much, if at all preferring to instead FTG somewhere and then one shot the enemy. Whilst he would have to be reasonably good at taijutsu (since he is a Kage), I think Tobirama has got him on this one.
EDITED ARGUEMENT: Tobirama was proficient in taijutsu, and had reasonable physical prowess, shown in the edo fight against the 3rd. Whether this is enough to take on Minato with his speed, and reflexes we cannot be sure as we have very little info to go on. Therefore I would award this one to Minato, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

(ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT: THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES TO ANIME, AND TO THAT END A FILLER
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed AND REFLEXES would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.

This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.

EDITED:<Space-time Jutsu> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Whilst we don’t know much about Tobirama’s Space Time jutsu’s we can draw some conclusions from what Minato said.

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Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Also the fact that Minato has a reputation for his space time suggests that he is better at the technique. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie. Although I can definitely see reasons to give it to Minato

EDITED:<Genjutsu> (NO POINTS)

Spoiler

CORRECTION-->THE FOLLOWING ONLY COUNTS FOR ANIME. HASHIRAMA WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DO THIS TECHNIQUE IN THE MANGA, WHILST IT WAS PERFORMED BY TOBIRAMA IN THE ANIME
From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.

<Sensor abilities> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Both have shown the same technique, in which they place there finger on the ground and identify enemy ninja. Therefore both can be considered excellent sensor ninja, and thus they tie on this one.

<Fuinjutsu> (+1 Minato)

Spoiler

As far as we know Tobirama doesn’t use sealing techniques, whilst Minato is a master of them. So this one is pretty self explanatory, Minato takes this.

<Ninjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Firstly Tobirama was the best water jutsu user that has ever lived. He is able to use high level water element jutsu’s with one hand seal, such as water dragon missile (which usually requires 44).

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Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.

<Summons> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Minato has shown that he has the contract for toads, even able to summon the toad boss gamabunta. Now don’t get me wrong this is pretty awesome, since not everyone can summon the contract boss, but an animal summon doesn’t compare to Edo tensei.

Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.

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Therefore at the moment I have suggested a way for Tobirama to take away or counter FTG, can match him in hand to hand combat and can gain an advantage through his Impure world resurrection, although I see Minato’s seals as a potential problem.

EDITED:<HYPE> + 1 TOBIRAMA

Spoiler

Finally based on the latest chapter we conclude that either Hashirama is the strongest or a close second to Prime Sarutobi. Regardless everyone is aware of the fact that Hashirama is a BEAST. He singlehandedly beat EMS Madara + Kurama, tamed many tailed beasts and uses possibly the strongest KG wood release. Now its not hard to see in the Narutoverse these are massive feats. But most of all he was compared to the sage of six paths himself. Now who was said to be Hashirama’s equal, his brother Tobirama

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I honestly don't think Minatos hype can stand against this statement

And that is why I say that Tobirama (5 points) is stronger than Minato (4 points), comments and opinions? Please don’t flame, and fanboys are welcome to discuss as long as you can actually back your statements up. I want a good discussion please. For anyone that is going to say he got taken out by 20 fodder ninja read the next section.

<Misconception about Tobirama’s death>

Spoiler

Many believe that Tobirama was killed by fodder ninja, this is entirely untrue.

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From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite. Finally but probably the most important bit, he was a decoy he didn't want to escape, otherwise the bounty hunters would go an take out Hiruzen and the others

 

[BloodSeed]

is it safe to assume at this picture that he is a jounin? because why would a hokage train 3 genins?

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or maybe kishi is lost at his timeline.

ex.
1. itachi owned orochi at what age? owarj said it was 11 and gives some scans for evidence.
and kishimoto(name of a user here that claims he worked at kishi) gives also some evidence that he was 13 when he owned oro.

2. when those jounins from konoha that can yous FTG said that they are 4th's original bodyguards? what the pack gennma shiranui is 29-30 years old like kakashi how can a kid become his bodyguard when he was alive :rofl:

 

[Mellanoma]

lets face it without the 2nd there would be no yellow flash haha
"prepares for troll and flame"

 

[Blaze Release]

Minato wasnt elected hokage until the end of the 3rd great ninja war when he was the sensei of kakashi, obito and rin. He clearly looked in his early twenties.

Now hiruzen we have seen clear scans of tobirama electing him as the next hokage and he looked around naruto/gaara's age. Id say 17.

To the person who said why would a hokage train 3 genins, well tobirama who was the hokage was also the sensei of danzo, hiruzen and that other uchiha guy. Similarly hashirama along with tobirama trained hiruzen and both were hokages

 

[F1N1X]

Spoiler

IF NOTHING ELSE PLZ READ <THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN> SECTION​

EDIT NOTES:
Points that have been edited are in bold. On revision it could go either way on some points, it depends on your personal opinion. I intentionally left out the culmination of all techniques, so that you the read could decide yourself. I stand by my original post that Tobirama> Minato but it is definitely close

So following the latest chapter there has been many people re-evaluating the order in which they rank the Hokage’s of the Leaf. What I have noticed is that many people consider the nidaime hokage Tobirama to be weaker than Minato. In my opinion this is either a severe underrating of Tobirama or possible overrating of Minato. I think that the 2nd is stronger than Minato and I will explain why.

EDITED:<Hand-to-Hand Combat> (+1 Minato)

Spoiler

From what we have seen, Minato does not rely on his taijutsu much, if at all preferring to instead FTG somewhere and then one shot the enemy. Whilst he would have to be reasonably good at taijutsu (since he is a Kage), I think Tobirama has got him on this one.
EDITED ARGUEMENT: Tobirama was proficient in taijutsu, and had reasonable physical prowess, shown in the edo fight against the 3rd. Whether this is enough to take on Minato with his speed, and reflexes we cannot be sure as we have very little info to go on. Therefore I would award this one to Minato, giving him the benefit of the doubt.

(ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT: THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES TO ANIME, AND TO THAT END A FILLER
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed AND REFLEXES would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.

This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.

EDITED:<Space-time Jutsu> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Whilst we don’t know much about Tobirama’s Space Time jutsu’s we can draw some conclusions from what Minato said.

You must be registered for see images

Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Also the fact that Minato has a reputation for his space time suggests that he is better at the technique. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie. Although I can definitely see reasons to give it to Minato

EDITED:<Genjutsu> (NO POINTS)

Spoiler

CORRECTION-->THE FOLLOWING ONLY COUNTS FOR ANIME. HASHIRAMA WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DO THIS TECHNIQUE IN THE MANGA, WHILST IT WAS PERFORMED BY TOBIRAMA IN THE ANIME
From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.

<Sensor abilities> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Both have shown the same technique, in which they place there finger on the ground and identify enemy ninja. Therefore both can be considered excellent sensor ninja, and thus they tie on this one.

<Fuinjutsu> (+1 Minato)

Spoiler

As far as we know Tobirama doesn’t use sealing techniques, whilst Minato is a master of them. So this one is pretty self explanatory, Minato takes this.

<Ninjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Firstly Tobirama was the best water jutsu user that has ever lived. He is able to use high level water element jutsu’s with one hand seal, such as water dragon missile (which usually requires 44).

You must be registered for see images

Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.

<Summons> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Minato has shown that he has the contract for toads, even able to summon the toad boss gamabunta. Now don’t get me wrong this is pretty awesome, since not everyone can summon the contract boss, but an animal summon doesn’t compare to Edo tensei.

Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.

You must be registered for see images

Therefore at the moment I have suggested a way for Tobirama to take away or counter FTG, can match him in hand to hand combat and can gain an advantage through his Impure world resurrection, although I see Minato’s seals as a potential problem.

EDITED:<HYPE> + 1 TOBIRAMA

Spoiler

Finally based on the latest chapter we conclude that either Hashirama is the strongest or a close second to Prime Sarutobi. Regardless everyone is aware of the fact that Hashirama is a BEAST. He singlehandedly beat EMS Madara + Kurama, tamed many tailed beasts and uses possibly the strongest KG wood release. Now its not hard to see in the Narutoverse these are massive feats. But most of all he was compared to the sage of six paths himself. Now who was said to be Hashirama’s equal, his brother Tobirama

You must be registered for see images

I honestly don't think Minatos hype can stand against this statement

And that is why I say that Tobirama (5 points) is stronger than Minato (4 points), comments and opinions? Please don’t flame, and fanboys are welcome to discuss as long as you can actually back your statements up. I want a good discussion please. For anyone that is going to say he got taken out by 20 fodder ninja read the next section.

<Misconception about Tobirama’s death>

Spoiler

Many believe that Tobirama was killed by fodder ninja, this is entirely untrue.

You must be registered for see images

From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite. Finally but probably the most important bit, he was a decoy he didn't want to escape, otherwise the bounty hunters would go an take out Hiruzen and the others

I will end this tomorrow if i have the time:scorps:...Most of what u said were just your own speculation of how u see things U_U

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

yondaime owned A and B.
kinkaku and ginkaku owned tobirama.
darui owned kin and gin brothers,
darui is A's bodyguard
A and B are the strongest in the kumogakure
A and B> darui
therefore MINATO > A or B> DARUI > KIN GIN > TOBIRAMA :rofl:

Lmao what manga are yu reading kinkaku ginkaku +18elite ninja's vs tobirama was never shown so how can yu know they owned him and darui won by LUCK as I recall lmao yu should have proof b4 posting

 

[BloodSeed]

Lmao what manga are yu reading kinkaku ginkaku +18elite ninja's vs tobirama was never shown so how can yu know they owned him and darui won by LUCK as I recall lmao yu should have proof b4 posting

kin and gin +18 is tooooooooo much for tobirama alone. EVEN he got his 6 backups 2 are elite hiruzen+danzo and one UCHIHA. what the pack he even admitted that they cant win. im sure kin and gin are way way way stronger than those other 18 other wise they are also named and revived by kabuto :rofl:

 

[ushasam]

minato is the 2nd strongest kage of the leaf

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Full of flaws U_U I will slowly edit to bring em out I also want to say That I'm not saying Minato > tobirama either, but if we are to compare them, we outta be honest. I myself am a defender of Tobirama's power and have done so on many occasions.

TO start out with

Genjutsu : Tobirama use of bringer of darkness is a lie. Hashirama was the one to use it in the manga

Space-time: although Tobirama is good, Minato was said to be better or implied to be better more than once.

Taijutsu: The sword of thunder god is also anime only and is completely stupid IMO considering he's a suiton master. Not only is minato faster as you said, but he had enough power to nearly cut an entire tentacle of Hachibi while in mid-air. And fast enough reflexes to activate his FTG while been sucked up by Tobi or having A's super speed punch at about a centimeter of his face

^^

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Nice presentation but Minato>Tobimara i don't have time to explain why.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

Minato wasnt elected hokage until the end of the 3rd great ninja war when he was the sensei of kakashi, obito and rin. He clearly looked in his early twenties.

Now hiruzen we have seen clear scans of tobirama electing him as the next hokage and he looked around naruto/gaara's age. Id say 17.

To the person who said why would a hokage train 3 genins, well tobirama who was the hokage was also the sensei of danzo, hiruzen and that other uchiha guy. Similarly hashirama along with tobirama trained hiruzen and both were hokages

some people have different talents... this only shows tobirama was either a better sensei or kakashi was too ignorant with minato... your post speaks nothing of strength

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I swear if we ever get a flashback, and tobirama used edo to summon his dead brother, i'll lmao @ you people

Owarij I don't know if that is possible. Once a person has been summoned via Edo Tensei they can't be resummoned except by the original summoner as their souls are no longer in the impure world (or pure, I get them mixed up ) so if hashirama had already been summoned then I don't think Oro could have done it with them you know?

 

[Blaze Release]

some people have different talents... this only shows tobirama was either a better sensei or kakashi was too ignorant with minato... your post speaks nothing of strength

Er, you have no idea what we were discussing U_U

 

[kaka96]

then that forces are more weaker if they dont have that brothers along with them. kabuto revived almost all of the dead famous and strong character. kin and gin brother are the strongest on that unit otherwise it will not be named on them

and what the pack are you talking about mist? they are clouds.

now you lose all your credibility since you dont know what your talking about

Agreed I made a mistake , it's cloud not mist , but the rest is right

What kind of retarded logic do you have?

Kinkanku and his brother we're outlaws since they nearly killed Tobirama and 2nd Raikage

They can't have been in it since they were already outlaws.

By your logic, they nearly killed Tobirama as outlaws after having killed him under the banner of the mist? Props to you genius

 

[Madara Hokage]

I agree with you 110%

 

[Madara Hokage]

I agree with you 110%