Tobirama got beaten by some low class ninjas whose names are not even mention anywhere, while these kind of fodder ninjas were afraid of the 4th. Not a fan of either. just wanted to tell that u could have done something better then this.
the sword and the bringer of anime technique are anime only. so they're irrelevant to your opinion.
and based on what does tobirama have better taijutsu than minato? Hiruzen managed to outdo him and hashirama at 68 years of age. that's purely assumptions from your part. Minato hasn't been showing much taijutsu, but the few he's shown has been top rate eg against that iwa shinobi to save kakashi, or against tobi, bee and A (although he uses more of a kinjutsu with his kunai).
also, your making another assumption about edo tensei, when orochimaru specifically stated that tobirama did not complete the jutsu. and given oro's weak mastery of it, i don't see how tobirama would have gained a huge advantage if he could indeed use it in battle.
anyway, Hiruzen attempted to block Minato's coffin, and even though Kabuto said it would have failed anyway, he stopped that coffin and not the others from going up. so i think it's a pretty clear indicator that Hiruzen thought Minato was stronger than the other two. and given that he's the only one who knows the capabilities of all four hokage, he's the go to guy on this one.
the sword and the bringer of anime technique are anime only. so they're irrelevant to your opinion.
and based on what does tobirama have better taijutsu than minato? Hiruzen managed to outdo him and hashirama at 68 years of age. that's purely assumptions from your part. Minato hasn't been showing much taijutsu, but the few he's shown has been top rate eg against that iwa shinobi to save kakashi, or against tobi, bee and A (although he uses more of a kinjutsu with his kunai).
also, your making another assumption about edo tensei, when orochimaru specifically stated that tobirama did not complete the jutsu. and given oro's weak mastery of it, i don't see how tobirama would have gained a huge advantage if he could indeed use it in battle.
anyway, Hiruzen attempted to block Minato's coffin, and even though Kabuto said it would have failed anyway, he stopped that coffin and not the others from going up. so i think it's a pretty clear indicator that Hiruzen thought Minato was stronger than the other two. and given that he's the only one who knows the capabilities of all four hokage, he's the go to guy on this one.
IF NOTHING ELSE PLZ READ <THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN> SECTION
EDIT NOTES:
Points that have been edited are in bold. On revision it could go either way on some points, it depends on your personal opinion. I intentionally left out the culmination of all techniques, so that you the read could decide yourself. I stand by my original post that Tobirama> Minato but it is definitely close
So following the latest chapter there has been many people re-evaluating the order in which they rank the Hokage’s of the Leaf. What I have noticed is that many people consider the nidaime hokage Tobirama to be weaker than Minato. In my opinion this is either a severe underrating of Tobirama or possible overrating of Minato. I think that the 2nd is stronger than Minato and I will explain why.
EDITED:<Hand-to-Hand Combat> (+1 Minato)
From what we have seen, Minato does not rely on his taijutsu much, if at all preferring to instead FTG somewhere and then one shot the enemy. Whilst he would have to be reasonably good at taijutsu (since he is a Kage), I think Tobirama has got him on this one. EDITED ARGUEMENT: Tobirama was proficient in taijutsu, and had reasonable physical prowess, shown in the edo fight against the 3rd. Whether this is enough to take on Minato with his speed, and reflexes we cannot be sure as we have very little info to go on. Therefore I would award this one to Minato, giving him the benefit of the doubt.
(ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT: THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES TO ANIME, AND TO THAT END A FILLER
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed AND REFLEXES would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.
This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.
EDITED:<Space-time Jutsu> (+1 Each)
Whilst we don’t know much about Tobirama’s Space Time jutsu’s we can draw some conclusions from what Minato said.
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Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Also the fact that Minato has a reputation for his space time suggests that he is better at the technique. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie. Although I can definitely see reasons to give it to Minato
EDITED:<Genjutsu> (NO POINTS)
CORRECTION-->THE FOLLOWING ONLY COUNTS FOR ANIME. HASHIRAMA WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DO THIS TECHNIQUE IN THE MANGA, WHILST IT WAS PERFORMED BY TOBIRAMA IN THE ANIME
From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.
<Sensor abilities> (+1 Each)
Both have shown the same technique, in which they place there finger on the ground and identify enemy ninja. Therefore both can be considered excellent sensor ninja, and thus they tie on this one.
<Fuinjutsu> (+1 Minato)
As far as we know Tobirama doesn’t use sealing techniques, whilst Minato is a master of them. So this one is pretty self explanatory, Minato takes this.
<Ninjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)
Firstly Tobirama was the best water jutsu user that has ever lived. He is able to use high level water element jutsu’s with one hand seal, such as water dragon missile (which usually requires 44).
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Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.
<Summons> (+1 Tobirama)
Minato has shown that he has the contract for toads, even able to summon the toad boss gamabunta. Now don’t get me wrong this is pretty awesome, since not everyone can summon the contract boss, but an animal summon doesn’t compare to Edo tensei.
Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.
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Therefore at the moment I have suggested a way for Tobirama to take away or counter FTG, can match him in hand to hand combat and can gain an advantage through his Impure world resurrection, although I see Minato’s seals as a potential problem.
EDITED:<HYPE> + 1 TOBIRAMA
Finally based on the latest chapter we conclude that either Hashirama is the strongest or a close second to Prime Sarutobi. Regardless everyone is aware of the fact that Hashirama is a BEAST. He singlehandedly beat EMS Madara + Kurama, tamed many tailed beasts and uses possibly the strongest KG wood release. Now its not hard to see in the Narutoverse these are massive feats. But most of all he was compared to the sage of six paths himself. Now who was said to be Hashirama’s equal, his brother Tobirama
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I honestly don't think Minatos hype can stand against this statement
And that is why I say that Tobirama (5 points) is stronger than Minato (4 points), comments and opinions? Please don’t flame, and fanboys are welcome to discuss as long as you can actually back your statements up. I want a good discussion please. For anyone that is going to say he got taken out by 20 fodder ninja read the next section.
<Misconception about Tobirama’s death>
Many believe that Tobirama was killed by fodder ninja, this is entirely untrue.
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From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite.
O god is it senju season or something now everybody riding that band wagon???
The fourth was the strongest hokage has down the 3rd hokage even praised him of how talented he was and some what even admitted that the 4th was stronger then him.
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It said that the 3rd was key word (was) the strongest of all then he told them to to use the past tense but the chapter earlier he admitted that the 4th was some what stronger
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Hiruzen showed no fear towards the 1st or 2nd hokage at all even stating that he was going to bring them down and he even did.
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The Fourth i believe was more advance the the second in space-time jutsu lets be honest the scene were the 2nd hokage was seen last leaving if he was so good at space time jutsu wwhy didn't he teleport everyone out of there i know minato could of???
Um cool story bro I actually like Tobirama but he never used Bringer of Darkness. That is all hashirama's jutsu.
Half of your argument is based off of suppositions and falsehoods. We have no idea the level of Tobirama's ST. Considering that he wasn't renowned for that, (we had to have Minato mention it to even know about it) and his base speed isn't on par with Minato's then it is fairly obvious that Minato has the superior ST or at the very least utilizes it much better.
As for taijutsu, really? Minato is not good at taijutsu? Now you are just throwing BS up in the air. It makes me a little bit upset to see it, because in your attempt to make Tobirama shine you aren't highlighting his abilities you are trying to degrade Minato.
Minato had one element mastered to the point he planned on combining it with the rasengan. He invented the rasengan also, which implies that he had probably had some of the best chakra control ever.
In my opinion they are basically the same person. They both are sensors of the same type, they both have ST, they both focus on taijutsu aspects of combat, they both invent their own jutsus, they both have skill in fuinjutsu (as Edo tensei is based off of sealing to control the edo's and to bring them back) though Minato is obviously more skilled at sealing jutsus, and Tobirama is more skilled at water jutsus.
Tobirama has the potential to be the greatest Hokage, and I wish he got more attention than his lame brother but oh well. Minato and Tobirama even look similar.
Hey I was wondering if you were going to post or not . I have gone back and chuck in some more info, given minato points for taijutsu and specified which bits are based on anime evidence (so these sections are clearly evident now. I agree with you that some points are my opinion and are very debatable, but hey this is a discussion thread after all. Also I forgot Edo had a fuinjutsu element to it. Also in regards to Minato have exellent chakra control I would suggest that Tobirama also does since he can perform a 44 seal jutsu with just one seal. I agree that they are very similiar so I guess it comes down to personal opinion. Hopefully kishi will write him into the story and make all this redundant one way or another. But I stand by my hype section in particular and still think that tobirama > Minato
there is no appearence of 2nd after he said sarutobi to be the 3rd nd he was not that old to give up his position so maybe he knew that he was goin to end up as a decoy . moreover if a hokage cannot stand against some 20 ninjas maybe all jounin , he is obviously weaker than namikaze minato !
People seem to seriously not get this bit. They were master bounty hunters, most likely high level jounin. They were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. They were not a weak group, so saying that he died by them makes them weak isn't true.
You can't use anime in arguments. It's not canon. Personally I think minatos better until we see more of tobirama because it never really says or shows anything that puts him above minato
I changed the original post to clearly state the sections that are anime and not cannon so yer. I still eckon he is better than minato (just my personal opinion) but I also hope we get to see more of him.
Tobirama got beaten by some low class ninjas whose names are not even mention anywhere, while these kind of fodder ninjas were afraid of the 4th. Not a fan of either. just wanted to tell that u could have done something better then this.
the sword and the bringer of anime technique are anime only. so they're irrelevant to your opinion.
and based on what does tobirama have better taijutsu than minato? Hiruzen managed to outdo him and hashirama at 68 years of age. that's purely assumptions from your part. Minato hasn't been showing much taijutsu, but the few he's shown has been top rate eg against that iwa shinobi to save kakashi, or against tobi, bee and A (although he uses more of a kinjutsu with his kunai).
also, your making another assumption about edo tensei, when orochimaru specifically stated that tobirama did not complete the jutsu. and given oro's weak mastery of it, i don't see how tobirama would have gained a huge advantage if he could indeed use it in battle.
anyway, Hiruzen attempted to block Minato's coffin, and even though Kabuto said it would have failed anyway, he stopped that coffin and not the others from going up. so i think it's a pretty clear indicator that Hiruzen thought Minato was stronger than the other two. and given that he's the only one who knows the capabilities of all four hokage, he's the go to guy on this one.
The anime sections have been adjusted as has the Taijutsu section. On to the Edo's he obviously mastered it enough for the jutsu to be similiar (but defiently no where near the scale) of Oro and Kabuto, otherwise the kage wouldnt have recognised that it was the 2nd's technique when kabuto summoned them. Also when Oro used it he was clearly toying with the 3rd.
personally i've always thought Hiruzen did indeed succeed in stopping oro from summoning the fourth. of course, if he had failed, the corpse wouldn't have taken to minato's dna anyway and it would have failed nevertheless...
The reason why hiruzen tried to stop the third coffin (minato) was because he couldnt stop the first 2 and obviously tried to stop the coffin which he thought he could which was the final coffin because 3 hokages is too much. Needless to say that coffin wouldnt have worked anyway.
Anyway tbh edo tensei would be non existent in this fight. Due to preparation, secondly tobirama hasnt mastered it. Thirdly we dont know who he could summon. Fourthly minato has sealing feat, saying that i doubt tobirama would watch him seal without doing anything.
Anyway due to their technique's they are quiet similar with tobirama having the superior techniques. In fact tobirama imo has the strongest technique out of all the hokages.
This fight can go either way. Dont think there is a clear cut winner
The reason why hiruzen tried to stop the third coffin (minato) was because he couldnt stop the first 2 and obviously tried to stop the coffin which he thought he could which was the final coffin because 3 hokages is too much. Needless to say that coffin wouldnt have worked anyway.
Anyway tbh edo tensei would be non existent in this fight. Due to preparation, secondly tobirama hasnt mastered it. Thirdly we dont know who he could summon. Fourthly minato has sealing feat, saying that i doubt tobirama would watch him seal without doing anything.
Anyway due to their technique's they are quiet similar with tobirama having the superior techniques. In fact tobirama imo has the strongest technique out of all the hokages.
This fight can go either way. Dont think there is a clear cut winner
obviously you are a fan of Minato judging by your username. Also you are wrong it was 20 elite bounty hunter ninja's (the ones that take back criminals). Also how can you kill 1000 ninja at once? For interest sake can you show me this manga page?
hi,i want to see naruto die and susky regrad for killing naruto and naruto studen go to naruto path (never give up) peas world.new enemy "pleas don't end the story" we will never feel bore for naruto story
There to much we don't know to say which is better.But one things that jump out at me is that Minato FTG S/Tninjutsu is better than Tobimara's.It clearly seem that way in how Minato which Minato said Tobi's S/T ninjutsu was better than the seconds and even better than mine.That was Minato clearly putting his S/T ninjutsu ahead of Tobirama.As for ninjutsu, we don't have a clue what element nature Minato had, so I can't really gauge how his ninjutsu would match Tobirama Water Techniques.We haven't seen anything genjutsu from Minato or Tobirama(anime don't count), so they are equal until proven otherwise.Fuinjutsu goes to MInato for obvious reason.Sensor abilities are equal seeing as Minato and Tobirama use the same technique.Summons is a tricky one.Tobimara evented the Impure world technique but he never master it.Orochimara was better than Tobimara and he could only summon two Hokage at like half their strength, maybe less.If I had to choose I would probably take the toads for the simple fact Minato could summon not only the large toads like Gamabunta, but the Sages Ma and Pa as well.
. I have gone back and chuck in some more info, given minato points for taijutsu and specified which bits are based on anime evidence (so these sections are clearly evident now. I agree with you that some points are my opinion and are very debatable, but hey this is a discussion thread after all. Also I forgot Edo had a fuinjutsu element to it. Also in regards to Minato have exellent chakra control I would suggest that Tobirama also does since he can perform a 44 seal jutsu with just one seal. I agree that they are very similiar so I guess it comes down to personal opinion. Hopefully kishi will write him into the story and make all this redundant one way or another. But I stand by my hype section in particular and still think that tobirama > Minato
