Why the 2nd>4th Hokage!

[Tylor]

:scorps: it's minato fanboys who get up about him

 

[Flame Alchemist]

No escaping just means a draw. If both ninjas are still alive then how could one have lost?

If you can't fight in given conditions the best choice is to leave

Minato ran from Tobi, and then figured out a way to win

he didn't run. first he took kushina away then he went to fight the nine tails. when tobi interfered minato rose up and fought him head on.

escaping means "running away." and you run away when there is nothing else is left to do. and that means you lost.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

he didn't run. first he took kushina away then he went to fight the nine tails. when tobi interfered minato rose up and fought him head on.

escaping means "running away." and you run away when there is nothing else is left to do. and that means you lost.

Tobi caught him in his Space/Time jutsu and Minato escaped to another location. He tried to warn the Third but Tobi intercepted him. Then he beat Tobi

In Neji's battle with the Sound Four he ran away from his opponent but later came up with a way to kill him.

Running is a battle strategy not a defeat

 

[Smirk]

Deep.. Minato^

 

[blazekev90]

It’s funny how all the discussions shifted from the topic at hand.

 

[Flame Alchemist]

Tobi caught him in his Space/Time jutsu and Minato escaped to another location. He tried to warn the Third but Tobi intercepted him. Then he beat Tobi

In Neji's battle with the Sound Four he ran away from his opponent but later came up with a way to kill him.

Running is a battle strategy not a defeat

they aren't escaping. minato changed locations. and neji was searching an opening.

when you see that you have no hope of victory and just teleport to somewhere where your opponent can't find you means escaping. and it's accepting the lose.

 

[Gatsuuga]

It’s funny how all the discussions shifted from the topic at hand.

Yet no one has disputed by final point (the nail in the coffin section), even if I take out the section with the sword of the thunder god I still think he wins.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

IF NOTHING ELSE PLZ READ <THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN> SECTION​

So following the latest chapter there has been many people re-evaluating the order in which they rank the Hokage’s of the Leaf. What I have noticed is that many people consider the nidaime hokage Tobirama to be weaker than Minato. In my opinion this is either a severe underrating of Tobirama or possible overrating of Minato. I think that the 2nd is stronger than Minato and I will explain why.

<Hand-to-Hand Combat> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

From what we have seen, Minato does not rely on his taijutsu much, if at all preferring to instead FTG somewhere and then one shot the enemy. Whilst he would have to be reasonably good at taijutsu (since he is a Kage), I think Tobirama has got him on this one.
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.

This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.

<Space-time Jutsu> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Whilst we don’t know much about Tobirama’s Space Time jutsu’s we can draw some conclusions from what Minato said.

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Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie.

<Genjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.

<Sensor abilities> (+1 Each)

Spoiler

Both have shown the same technique, in which they place there finger on the ground and identify enemy ninja. Therefore both can be considered excellent sensor ninja, and thus they tie on this one.

<Fuinjutsu> (+1 Minato)

Spoiler

As far as we know Tobirama doesn’t use sealing techniques, whilst Minato is a master of them. So this one is pretty self explanatory, Minato takes this.

<Ninjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Firstly Tobirama was the best water jutsu user that has ever lived. He is able to use high level water element jutsu’s with one hand seal, such as water dragon missile (which usually requires 44).

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Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.

<Summons> (+1 Tobirama)

Spoiler

Minato has shown that he has the contract for toads, even able to summon the toad boss gamabunta. Now don’t get me wrong this is pretty awesome, since not everyone can summon the contract boss, but an animal summon doesn’t compare to Edo tensei.

Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.

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Therefore at the moment I have suggested a way for Tobirama to take away or counter FTG, can match him in hand to hand combat and can gain an advantage through his Impure world resurrection, although I see Minato’s seals as a potential problem.

<The Nail in the Coffin>

Spoiler

Finally based on the latest chapter we conclude that either Hashirama is the strongest or a close second to Prime Sarutobi. Regardless everyone is aware of the fact that Hashirama is a BEAST. He singlehandedly beat EMS Madara + Kurama, tamed many tailed beasts and uses possibly the strongest KG wood release. Now its not hard to see in the Narutoverse these are massive feats. But most of all he was compared to the sage of six paths himself. Now who was said to be Hashirama’s equal, his brother Tobirama

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And that is why I say that Tobirama (6 points) is stronger than Minato (3 points), comments and opinions? Please don’t flame, and fanboys are welcome to discuss as long as you can actually back your statements up. I want a good discussion please. For anyone that is going to say he got taken out by 20 fodder ninja read the next section.

<Misconception about Tobirama’s death>

Spoiler

Many believe that Tobirama was killed by fodder ninja, this is entirely untrue.

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From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite.

Um cool story bro I actually like Tobirama but he never used Bringer of Darkness. That is all hashirama's jutsu.

Half of your argument is based off of suppositions and falsehoods. We have no idea the level of Tobirama's ST. Considering that he wasn't renowned for that, (we had to have Minato mention it to even know about it) and his base speed isn't on par with Minato's then it is fairly obvious that Minato has the superior ST or at the very least utilizes it much better.

As for taijutsu, really? Minato is not good at taijutsu? Now you are just throwing BS up in the air. It makes me a little bit upset to see it, because in your attempt to make Tobirama shine you aren't highlighting his abilities you are trying to degrade Minato.

Minato had one element mastered to the point he planned on combining it with the rasengan. He invented the rasengan also, which implies that he had probably had some of the best chakra control ever.



In my opinion they are basically the same person. They both are sensors of the same type, they both have ST, they both focus on taijutsu aspects of combat, they both invent their own jutsus, they both have skill in fuinjutsu (as Edo tensei is based off of sealing to control the edo's and to bring them back) though Minato is obviously more skilled at sealing jutsus, and Tobirama is more skilled at water jutsus.

Tobirama has the potential to be the greatest Hokage, and I wish he got more attention than his lame brother but oh well. Minato and Tobirama even look similar.

So any way not a great analysis.

 

[-Vegeta-]

List is seriously flawed.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

they aren't escaping. minato changed locations. and neji was searching an opening.

How is this any different from escaping? Neji and Minato left their opponents.

when you see that you have no hope of victory and just teleport to somewhere where your opponent can't find you means escaping. and it's accepting the lose.

And how exactly did the winner win?

 

[blazekev90]

Yet no one has disputed by final point (the nail in the coffin section), even if I take out the section with the sword of the thunder god I still think he wins.

i expected as much really...

 

[vikrant rapta]

there is no appearence of 2nd after he said sarutobi to be the 3rd nd he was not that old to give up his position so maybe he knew that he was goin to end up as a decoy . moreover if a hokage cannot stand against some 20 ninjas maybe all jounin , he is obviously weaker than namikaze minato !

 

[BloodSeed]

tobiramas spacetime sucks he cant escape 20bountyhunters :rofl:

 

[Novac]

You can't use anime in arguments. It's not canon. Personally I think minatos better until we see more of tobirama because it never really says or shows anything that puts him above minato

 

[home]

your gonna get flamed so bad
btw i agree

 

[Wakizashi]

as much evidence that you put in to back up your opinion, you are still going to get flamed by the minato fanboys

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

as much evidence that you put in to back up your opinion, you are still going to get flamed by the minato fanboys

There is more speculation than evidence, and all of it is debatable

 

[Sazzi]

i give it to the second.. although minato has better speed its my opinion that the 2nd is just way more powerful

 

[wyliejl]

They were much more common techniques than The Rasengan which can only be used by 4 people in the world. The scale of their power was something else tough , he was sad to be the greatest suiton user of all time

Actually 5 people can do rasengan...but think only 4 can use it in combat...

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

Actually 5 people can do rasengan...but think only 4 can use it in combat...

Minato, Jiraiya, Kakashi, Naruto, and Konohamaru. They can all use it in combat