Why the 2nd>4th Hokage!

[kaka96]

Because I gave an example as to how Tobirama could immobilize Minato, wouldn't matter how fast he is if he can't move. Also Rasengan is a ninjutsu hence why I put it in the ninjutsu section.


S-rank jounin that don't die seems better to me, many of the Akatsuki are S-rank jounin, are they not?



I get the impression you don't count the anime, why not? Without it we have next to nothing to go on. Also a lightning sword makes perfect sense if you use water element. Same principle as to why Darui used lightning element: Emotion wave against Sasuke.

Darui makes sense because he's a storm element user, from a country that uses lightning a lot >.> and is the wielder of the black lightning

Tobirama is hailed as the greatest water user of all times. I do not count stuff in the anime that were countered in the manga. Even if he had that blade, it broke so easily.... Minato's Rasengan is much stronger than Naruto's back then and Sasuke's Chidori.

Akatsuki are mostly Kage ranked not S-jounin ranked , Minato is a great sealer as you said yourself, I doubt he can't seal them.

 

[kaka96]

As for Ninjutsu, Tobirama might be greater in usage, but the techniques he uses are much more basic than the Rasengan.

And as of canceling FTG with water, Minato only need to touch him once with base speed and those water walls are useless.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

But couldn't Minato just trap the water in his Space/Time jutsu?

 

[blazekev90]

As for Ninjutsu, Tobirama might be greater in usage, but the techniques he uses are much more basic than the Rasengan.

And as of canceling FTG with water, Minato only need to touch him once with base speed and those water walls are useless.

there was nt basic about his water techniques and those were only the basis. Also, he knows S/T as well so its not like he cant avoid attacks on the same level and counter with water release.

 

[narutownsyouall]

But couldn't Minato just trap the water in his Space/Time jutsu?

He makes water from the moisture in air so unless minato can take up every bit of air in the world he has nothing on it

 

[kaka96]

there was nt basic about his water techniques and those were only the basis. Also, he knows S/T as well so its not like he cant avoid attacks on the same level and counter with water release.

They were much more common techniques than The Rasengan which can only be used by 4 people in the world. The scale of their power was something else tough , he was sad to be the greatest suiton user of all time

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

He makes water from the moisture in air so unless minato can take up every bit of air in the world he has nothing on it

It doesn't have to be in the entire world. If they were like in the desert where theres no moisture then Tobirama would have no water. This is also assuming that Tobirama has more chakra than Minato.

 

[blazekev90]

They were much more common techniques than The Rasengan which can only be used by 4 people in the world. The scale of their power was something else tough , he was sad to be the greatest suiton user of all time

srry but Naruto learned it in a short amount of time, and has since improved it. Only four ppl knowing makes no difference, everything isnt for everyone. The scale of who's power, the users?? And whats your point??

2nd was said to be the best water user, yet you consider his techniques as being basic.

 

[The Eye]

It doesn't have to be in the entire world. If they were like in the desert where theres no moisture then Tobirama would have no water. This is also assuming that Tobirama has more chakra than Minato.

no the 2nd was the best water tech user because he can create a wave of water from nothing. but this doesnt mean minato would lose to him. judging by the things i know of him minato wins this, people are just trying to make minato lose to someone. next week it might be itachi or saskue and naruto.

 

[Gatsuuga]

Wow alot of posts its hard to keep up....

I see several flaws to your argument. It will give the impression of a fanboy, but honestly he cant nullify FTG as easily as you assume, and given that, FTG can counter several of your +1 to tobirama. Taijutsu...minato would most likely know tobirama would win with taijutsu, so he would simply plant seals all around the area, if tobirama used a tech to wash them away, minato has the base speed to move in on the opening and get him. You also spoke of his lightning sword...i dont believe when it was referenced, it said anything about being able to halt a S/T jutsu like FTG, so unless the shock rendered minato unconscious, he could once again FTG out of the rings of electricity. As i see it, thats +1 minato, not tobirama(5-4). On to ninjutsu, while tobirama is all powerful with the water, Minato could too easily place seals out of range and if he gets into trouble, teleport out and back in to try a new tactic. And if tobirama uses a water wall around himself, it can become a war of attrition at that point, mniato standing there, tobirama standing there burning some chakra holding the wall up. I see that as a draw simply because while tobirama has him beat in actual ninjutsu, i see no reason why minato cant avoid all of his attacks. And lastly the summons. Yes, the ET summons were formidable, but you have to think, while unkillable, they wouldnt be the all powerful ET's like kabuto has in use now, it took him and oro much research and experimenting to get them vastly improved over their living selves. Also, i know you are breaking them into single catagories, but i feel that is an unusable style when talking about powerful kages as these fighting, it has to be the combo of all, and as you yourself stated, minato is a master sealer. All minato has to do is get a hand on an ET and he will seal them, nullifying them. And even if tobirama had thousands of strong ninja to summon, minato could seal them as quickly as they spawn. Based on common sense of the actual battle and not just comparing one stat at a time, i see minato taking it. Dont get me wrong, tobirama is amazing and id love to learn more about the powerful kage, but in a practical battle, FTG in my eyes over powers several of the stats you threw to tobirama.

I agree with you that minato's speed an reflexes would be a problem. I set out my post like that so after finishing the reader was able to take all the different parts into consideration and form there own judgement. When taking all of these factors into consideration myself, I would say Tobirama still with extremely high difficultly. This is based on the fact that I think he is an overall more rounded ninja (and therefore would have more options), but in saying that Minato is very very strong. I guess it comes down to personal opinion. Also in regards to Minato sealing the edo, doing so would create and opening for Tobiramam and the distraction could be fatal.

Wasn't that sword in Filler?

I just checked and yer it is ahah. It was so far back I wasn't sure. Calling on anime evidence is one thing but filler is another so I might take it out.

what the?

Hi, is there anything you would like me to clear up?

I am thinking this over and it makes a lot of sense. His Water jutsu alone really gives Minato a disadvantage especially if it can be made from thin air and come from out of nowhere

I agree

Darui makes sense because he's a storm element user, from a country that uses lightning a lot >.> and is the wielder of the black lightning

Tobirama is hailed as the greatest water user of all times. I do not count stuff in the anime that were countered in the manga. Even if he had that blade, it broke so easily.... Minato's Rasengan is much stronger than Naruto's back then and Sasuke's Chidori.

Akatsuki are mostly Kage ranked not S-jounin ranked , Minato is a great sealer as you said yourself, I doubt he can't seal them.

Hey I just had a look and the sword was mentioned in a fillerU_U, so I think i may take it out. Still unkillable s-rank jounin aren't to be sneezed at, and the time it would take for minato to seal them would give tobirama an opening. Also the only seal he has shown that would help him seal them is the reaper death seal, which would kill himself, so I don't see him using it unless it was a last resort.

 

[narutownsyouall]

It doesn't have to be in the entire world. If they were like in the desert where theres no moisture then Tobirama would have no water. This is also assuming that Tobirama has more chakra than Minato.

Theres moisture in every air particle even if your in the desert and no he can not stop Water jutsu with Space/time unless he can make 1000 Space/time barriers

no the 2nd was the best water tech user because he can create a wave of water from nothing. but this doesnt mean minato would lose to him. judging by the things i know of him minato wins this, people are just trying to make minato lose to someone. next week it might be itachi or saskue and naruto.

Naruto>Minato and he has great points as to why he might win.

 

[Gingka Uzumaki]

being they he rivaled uchiha, i dont see why he wouldnt revive them or those from his clan. Also, it was siad that he didnt perfect Edo (technique) nothing about who he could revive.

I just wanted to point that out, nothing more.

If he summoned an Uchiha, they would've been killed off pretty fast anyway.

 

[kaka96]

srry but Naruto learned it in a short amount of time, and has since improved it. Only four ppl knowing makes no difference, everything isnt for everyone. The scale of who's power, the users?? And whats your point??

2nd was said to be the best water user, yet you consider his techniques as being basic.

You indeed completely failed to see the point. Basic does not mean weak.
Shisui was known as Shisui of the body flicker, what more basic than this can you get?
The shadow clone tech is basic, Naruto's is just huge because of his huge Chakra reserve.

The whole point was not to compare strength of jutsu's but to point out that Minato's jutsu were fewer to be shown but much harder scale to even learn.

Naruto is no way a reference to learning periods of time, he mastered Shadow clone sin less than a day. He tamed Kyubi in minutes. Even Orochimaru stated that a child mastering such a jutsu was unheard of.

Not only does Naruto's improvement with it has nothing to do with this thread, Naruto had the help of Jiraiya, Kakashi, Yamato, Asuma, Bee, Kurama int the development of his new forms.

 

[Flame Alchemist]

I too believe tobirama was better than the 4th but;

for the genjutsu part. it was hashirama's technique anime screwed it up.
they should be equals in ninjutsu tobirama was famed with suiton but minato is the one who created rasengan.

so that makes it 5-4 instead of 6-3

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

This is based on the fact that I think he is an overall more rounded ninja (and therefore would have more options)

Really we have seen next to nothing from Minato.

FTG, Rasengan, and Death God seal is nothing to go by. Kishi needs a comprehensive databook complete with character jutsu's and fighting styles. Not just numbers.

 

[kaka96]

Hey I just had a look and the sword was mentioned in a fillerU_U, so I think i may take it out. Still unkillable s-rank jounin aren't to be sneezed at, and the time it would take for minato to seal them would give tobirama an opening. Also the only seal he has shown that would help him seal them is the reaper death seal, which would kill himself, so I don't see him using it unless it was a last resort.

He had the sealing techniques of the Uzumaki clan. He also had a seal potent enough to seal half the kyubi within Naruto ( eight trim gram ) was able to manipulate it to place a 2 different chakra reserves that would appear under specific circumstances and was able to manipulate Kushina's seal to implant his FTG in it. Saying he only use FTG seal and Reaper seal is just stupid

 

[Gatsuuga]

Really we have seen next to nothing from Minato.

FTG, Rasengan, and Death God seal is nothing to go by. Kishi needs a comprehensive databook complete with character jutsu's and fighting styles. Not just numbers.

I completely agree, and I guess that is one of the major flaws in comparing two ninja that we have very little info to go on. A data book score would definitely help here but I couldn't find one, although I had a decent look.

 

[home]

Why didn't you calculate speed? That's like plus eight for Minato. Also, Minato has the Rasengan, which is a short-range ninjutsu. So I'd say they're even in taijutsu.

no rasengan is ninjutsu not taijustsu

 

[blazekev90]

You indeed completely failed to see the point. Basic does not mean weak.
Shisui was known as Shisui of the body flicker, what more basic than this can you get?
The shadow clone tech is basic, Naruto's is just huge because of his huge Chakra reserve.

The whole point was not to compare strength of jutsu's but to point out that Minato's jutsu were fewer to be shown but much harder scale to even learn.

Naruto is no way a reference to learning periods of time, he mastered Shadow clone sin less than a day. He tamed Kyubi in minutes. Even Orochimaru stated that a child mastering such a jutsu was unheard of.

Not only does Naruto's improvement with it has nothing to do with this thread, Naruto had the help of Jiraiya, Kakashi, Yamato, Asuma, Bee, Kurama int the development of his new forms.

actually he was ass at creating shadow clones, it took him (idk how long) a long time to accomplish this.

the same could be said the 2nd Hokage, those able to use water release is a given but them being able to use it on a similar level cant be compared to (except for Kisame probably)

Naruto's improvement shows that Minato's rasengan is now basic (not saying weak)

 

[kaka96]

actually he was ass at creating shadow clones, it took him (idk how long) a long time to accomplish this.

the same could be said the 2nd Hokage, those able to use water release is a given but them being able to use it on a similar level cant be compared to (except for Kisame probably)

Naruto's improvement shows that Minato's rasengan is now basic (not saying weak)

Naruto was ass at crating clones

He mastered Shadow clones in a matter of hours with the scroll

the 2 techniques are not the same

Minato;s Rasengan is not basic as Naruto's moves are unique.