MAGELLAN VS LUFFY.
Hey all... Trying to up my debate and assessing skills, and what better place than NB.
First problem: Not the best place. But hey, OPB is down.
PURE STRENGTH
Luffy>Magellan in terms of pure strength, as far as we've seen. I'm sure we can all agree on this.
Fair enough.
DURABILITY
This is one of Magellans most dominating qualities, his tough durability and high defense. During his matches with Luffy he has been shown to take a few hits, tanking multiple Jet powered attacks from an enraged Luffy, as well as blocking his wax covered GGN Stamp with one arm. I'd like to remind you all that his G2 attacks, regardless of post or TS have never been anything to smirk at. These were the same attacks that were able to deal great damage, even to the likes of the worlds strongest assassin, Rob Lucci and his strongest Tekkai. This same attack that, albeit combined with G3, took down Moriah, the man stated to have fought equally with Kaido, Magellan shrugged off.
Not only that, but he's developed extreme resistance to temperatures all across the thermometer. He's able to withstand the blazing hot temperatures of the 4th level, that was stated to be boiling and could cook a live bird in seconds (just for a moment, try and imagine how hot that is. Not even the highest temp of your oven could do that), as well as the freezing, sub-zero temperatures of Level 5, which instantly froze all food upon contact with the air, without even being bothered by it. Holy ****, he's probably never had a cold in his life.
Now to be fair, Luffy himself has also shown incredible durability. I don't wish to knock on Magellan, but he definitely felt the strikes Luffy landed. For example, the Jet Bazooka to the stomach put him on his knees. Clearly not a KO level strike, but the fact he fell over leaves him entirely exposed to more severe punishment. Of course, it must also be noted Magellan didn't even anticipate the fact someone would hit him regardless of self injury. It is hard to say if the current Magellan thinks similar thoughts, but this false sense of security is an issue with him.
You may also have wanted to note he tanked several cannonballs from Wax Cannons.
In terms of Durability, I'd rank Luffy above Magellan. As we've seen he's completely unharmed from physical or blunt strikes (minus Haki enhanced). Additionally, his damage threshold holds superior feats to support him. For example, the fight with Rob Lucci. He took numerous hits from Shigan. Several times his own strike was blown back at him by Tekkai: Usugi. Finally he was hit by Rokuogan at least two times (plausibly three). The last being the ultimate Rokushiki technique, and a rather brutal internal organ grinder given its impact nature.
Additionally, the statement about the Level 5 can go both ways. Luffy himself was still kicking. But once more, Magellan did make note of the temperature in Level 5. During the chapter, "Chief Warden Magellan vs Pirate Luffy," he notes how hot the floor is.
And to seal to the deal on his superior defense, Magellan casually coats himself with a thick layer of poison every match. I'm already expecting a "Luffy is immune to poison" comment, but I'll get back to that later.
Luffy is Immune to MOST poisons. Which I'll explain further down where you make another comment regarding this.
DF
Magellans DF by itself is superior to Luffys, in both attack power and battle application. Poison triumphs stretching. Luffy is a hand to hand combat fighter, and this is his instant downfall. He can't touch Magellan without Haki, or he'll die. Simple as that. Sure, he may do some damage in the process of going all out, but in the end it'll either be a tie or Magellans win.
Magellan however is different. He's a long range fighter and a damn strong one as well, the 2nd strongest in the series (the first being Laws haxed DF).
In terms of offense, Luffy's fruit has no offense... other than what Luffy uses to make it offensive. So in that regard, yes Magellan has an advantage.
As for Battle Application, I'd give this to Luffy. Battle application of a Devil fruit is more so to the disgretion of the combatant. Not the fruit. For example, with Rubber, Luffy has.
1. Use Rubber to bounce back bullets and cannons.
2. Act as a cushion from high falls.
3. Vulcanize his body to enhance speed and striking power.
4. Inflate his bones for decimating physical power.
5. Vulcanize his body to the point of catching on fire.
6. Extended range with punches and kicks.
7. Slingshot to fling himself long distances.
8. Psuedo flight via spinning like a top.
Magellan has shown to...
1. Use poison mist to mess with eyesight/irritation of the eyes.
2. Transportation.
3. Offensive strike to cripple opponents.
4. Coating the body with poison .
That's about all there is to Magellan. Now his effects can certainly be more devastating (such as the Hydra and Venom Demon), but ultimately they all perform the same task. His diversity isn't nearly as wide.
Also, Second Strongest Long Range Fighter? I disagree. Enel, Kizaru, Akainu, Doflamingo, and Kuma have all show more potential and destructive force as long range fighters.
1. Enel's lightning would have wrecked anyone.... except Luffy who's made of Rubber. Look at how he basically one shot everyone during Skypia. His destructive power is one of the highest. Though he lacks combat skill.
2. Kizaru and Akainu should be no brainers. Yasakani no Magatami and Meteor Volcano.
3. Doffy's strings have shown to reach miles (Overheat) in distance. But also the strikes can be quick and effortless like 5 colored strings.
4. Ursus Shock and Pad Cannon.... repelling air at the speed of light for the latter. The second one shot everyone at Thriller Bark, and Oarz Jr. at Marineford.
For starters, wether or not the opponent is using Haki, all it takes is 1 strike to take someone down. Even the smallest drop of his poison can be a death sentence, as it quickly spreads through the body and straight to the nervous system, where it viciously attacks and induces unbearable pain until it kills the victim.
Whether or not this actually works on a Haki user is debatable. As we've seen, Haki offers an extreme inconsistency. My example is Law vs Vergo.
In the past, Law (even with his Ope-Ope no Mi) could do nothing against Vergo, who beat him mercilessly. However, during Punk Hazard, Law had enough Haki in addition to his DF to bisect Vergo.
This implies that to some degree, Haki does in fact work as an armor, but more importantly an armor that can adapt to the threat of devil fruits. A second example of this. Shanks during Marineford stops Akainu's attack with his sword. Under normal conditions... the magma should have melted Shanks' blade. Not to mention Vista who slashes at Akainu, who turns to magama and tanks the slash.
Therefore, it is easily credible to argue that, provide he has on Armament, Luffy can touch Magellan's poison without suffering the adverse affects. However, he'd have to COMPLETELY remove all traces of the poison before de-activating the haki. Otherwise... he's simply stuck to his pre-skip situation with Poison on him.
2nd, his poison is fast. REALLY fast. He has demonstrated this by managing to hit Luffy, even in Gear 2nd, a speed, once again on par with Lucci.
Magellan's poison has no real significant speed. Luffy used Gear 2nd to easily dodge his Hidora balls. However, Luffy re-appears in the air momentarily before throwing a punch. During this time, Magellan summons a Hydra head which Luffy punches. When he uses Venom Road, Luffy has not activated Gear Second, and is simply running backwards. And at that moment, Luffy dodges his Hydra (in base) multiple times as well as dodges Magellan's own attempted offense multiple times (blocking the strikes simply using his sandals. Not to mention that all of this dodging goes on while his eyes are hurt by the chloroball.
Credibly, Magellan could figure out where Luffy ultimately would end up, and managed to use a tech to cause Luffy to harm himself; however, the present Luffy has far more offensive power, but also has Haki, which I've already mentioned stands a plausible chance of canceling the poison.
3rd, Magellans got variety in his attacks and can come in from multiple directions. His most dangerous attack Hydra can chase Luffy as long as it wants, as far as it needs to go and attack from any direction with either of its heads. And if that fails, he can swim through one of them at high speed and bam, wouldn't know what hit him.
Hydra was being dodged by base Luffy. Even when using Venom Road, Magellan failed to hit Luffy. Especially a Luffy who's eyes were being massively irritated by Chloroball.
4th, the 'Gear 2nd' of the Doku Doku no Mi, Kinjite. Instant kill tech with a remarkably large range, and burns through anything it touches. It's so powerful that Magellan commented "this poison could destroy impel down itself". It's almost like this poison has a mind of its own too, seeing how it crawls up any surface it touches until deactivated.
Venom Demon. The single saving grace currently held by Magellan. This is what makes this from a Mid-Diff to High-Diff fight. This tech IS dangerous. But it is also very slow. Furthermore... it could still be held up by things such as wax: albeit temporarily.
5th, even this mans breath is deadly. It's dangerous to even be around him. That's all it takes is for Luffy to get close and for him to breath in his face, an it's GG. Makes him temporarily deaf and ruins his vision to where he can't even see what he's doing. I'll admit though, the effect won't be as intense as it was round 1, due to his newfound resistance, but it's not like he's immune. This will give Magellan ample time to end the match.
This is no different than his fight with Ceasar in which the latter could take Air from a zone. So basically, Luffy just has to pull his head back, take a breath, and fight. Or retreat, take a breath, and fight. Furthermore, Luffy himself has blatantly said, poisonous stuff doesn't work on me thanks to Magellan. This implies that anti-bodies towards Magellan's poisons are in Luffy's bloodstream (thanks in part to Ivankov). Furthermore, there exist antidote's to Magellan's Hydra which is his second deadliest poison after Venom Demon.
"B-But Luffy is immune to M-Magellans poison!"
Caesars has is so much weaker than Magellans poison it's not worth the joke.
He never stated he was immune. He just said that poison didn't effect him much anymore.
Resistance will only take him so far. Think about it, the ONLY thing resistance does is delay the inevitable. Once it touches him, it'll still be doing damage, but just at a slower rate. And this still depends on the quantities he receives it in.
This was an resistance he developed only to Maggie's weaker poison, not Kinjite which you cannot develop a resistance to.
If a poison doesn't really affect you. You are immune to it. Hydra should have killed Luffy, but he survived because Ivankov's hormone's restructured Luffy's body. It was a miracle to begin with to survive this. Furthermore was unprecedented when Luffy survived it in only 7 or so hours.
Venom Demon remains as the only thing that can FOR SURE effect Luffy.
By saying Luffy can beat Magellan, you are saying Luffy can beat Shilliew, who I should remind you was stronger than Yami BB, and still weaker than Magellan, seeing how he was able to put him in the slammer.
You are also saying Luffy can beat Jimbe, which isn't too hard to believe.
You are also saying that Luffy can beat Ivankov.
And that he can beat Croc... Who he has.
This is an unfair accusation. One thing OP (and ironically THIS ARC) made a point about was that A > B > C doesn't work.
Mr. 3 could COMPLETELY counter 99% of Magellan's arsenal.... MR. 3! Only thing he couldn't best was Venom Demon.... which even then he could hold at bay for a time.
Secondly, Luffy beats all of the people listed here high diff one on one. Only one he might lose to would be Shilliew (assuming post skip Shilliew) though he should beat Pre-Skip Shilliew who's basically Magellan's level, but uses a sword (thus no DF saves)... plus he has basically no feats.
But most importantly, you're saying that Luffy can beat all of the above chars in a fight at once, since that whole force was alarmed by Magellans name and knew even as a team that they could not best him.
This is a case of situation.
1. Magellan knows the terrain FAR better.
2. Magellan has the advantage of fighting in close quarters/enclosed space (where his poison has a greater advantage).
3. Crocodile can't just kill off the stone foundations to make sand to use.... because he risks fooding impel down.
4. Jinbei uses Fishmen Karate and has no access to water. Not without risking the lives of everyone there he's allied to.
5. All of them have been malnourished except Magellan. Hell, Jinbei had to take a beating just to scratch an itch.
6. This is a prison break on an instillation in the calm belt. Meaning no wind. Thus, before news leaks and the Marine ships leave port (screwing the escapees), they must escape. They don't have time to play with Magellan when they are at a disadvantage in terms of health [Luffy, Croc, Jinbei], don't know the layout as well, are stuck where two of the strongest fighters in the group can't go all out [Jinbei and Crocodile], and are stuck in a way that the enemy's devil fruit is a complete advantage. Poison in an enclosed space.
Pre-Skip Luffy loses to Magellan. Simple as that.
Post Skip Luffy beats Magellan. I would say mid-diff as he'd have to watch out for Venom Demon. However, his use of Haki, and the use of various environmental factors can be swayed to counter Venom Demon... if not Luffy's increased speed. One solid Hit on Magellan should send him crashing down.
His Gear 2 left him with whited out eyes. That same gear 2 move did nothing to a Pacifista. Now that same move with minor Haki one shots a Pacifista.
