Why is everyone acting like if Rinnegan is just an evolution of Sharingan like MS?

[Rafeal brown]

Exactly. You need Senju DNA. But since Madara has Senju + Uchiha DNA he aquired the Sharingan and Rinnegan.
Madara getting Rinnegan is a one-case senario. He had SENJU DNA.
Rinnegan isn't an evolution of the Sharingan. Their 2 completely seperate Doujutsu's. Some people think just because Madara's Sharingan aquired the rinnegan, that the Rinnegan is a higher level of Sharingan, when they are just "2" completely diffrent Doujutsu's with completely diffrent abilities. They each are their own thing. None is deprived of the others capabilities.

No. Madara was using susanoo when he activated the rinnegan. The rinnegan gave birth to the sharingan... The so6p elder son was said to have inherited the sage eyes, his descendant possessed the sharingan. Meaning the sharingan is a diluted blood line of the rinnegan. Why does everyone think you need senju cells to obtain rinnegan...? It was never stated in the manga that senju cells to obtain rinnegan.

 

[Uchiha seeker]

Exactly. You need Senju DNA. But since Madara has Senju + Uchiha DNA he aquired the Sharingan and Rinnegan.
Madara getting Rinnegan is a one-case senario. He had SENJU DNA.
Rinnegan isn't an evolution of the Sharingan. Their 2 completely seperate Doujutsu's. Some people think just because Madara's Sharingan aquired the rinnegan, that the Rinnegan is a higher level of Sharingan, when they are just "2" completely diffrent Doujutsu's with completely diffrent abilities. They each are their own thing. None is deprived of the others capabilities.

hope this is right

 

[Owarij]

No. Madara was using susanoo when he activated the rinnegan. The rinnegan gave birth to the sharingan... The so6p elder son was said to have inherited the sage eyes, his descendant possessed the sharingan. Meaning the sharingan is a diluted blood line of the rinnegan. Why does everyone think you need senju cells to obtain rinnegan...? It was never stated in the manga that senju cells to obtain rinnegan.

idk , people just can't seem to understand that sharingan is a diluted eye -_-

 

[LEAU92]

idk , people just can't seem to understand that sharingan is a diluted eye -_-

ikr, it doesn't stand a chance against the rinnegan, if it can't create a moon, or send a meteor flying down to earth, bring people back to life, take peoples souls, absorb chakra, act like a transformer and fire rockets and shxt, then the sharingan is defintely a diluted eye, end of story lol

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

nowhere was it stated that you need senju dna to get rinnegan , stop spewing bs plz and thx, no where was it stated madara implanted senju dna

Tobi when posed as Madara did, I doubt this will be simply dimissed as "lolz Tobi wuz bullshiting". You may say you dont believe Tobi, but you cant act like if it was never hinted or mentioned where Tobi said Madara fought Hashirama explicitilly to obtainthe Senju DNA which is needed to become a Rikudou, in the same chapter he regained the Rinnegan and called Nagato a Rikudou too (something that according to Madara is only possible when you have Senju + Uchiha DNA) for having the Rinnegan.

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

It is an evolution then, you just contradicted yourself with you disagreeing that it wasn't an evolution (root word evolved) and all your facts about how it is achieved.

And the sages eyes were diluted over the years, to the point where it was rendered down to the sharingan, so seeing as madara reverses the process and proceeds to the rinnegan, that would be considered EVOLUTION !

I think it can be considered technically an evolution, what I am against is people considering it merely another more step just like 3 tomoe to MS and MS to EMS, the Rinnegan is a completely new doujutsu, it is an evolution yes, but not a sharingan anymore but a sharingan evolved into becoming something else.

And again I dont think it is simply an Uchiha step, we dont know the mechanisms to convert EMS to Rinnegan, but I doubt very much it is just as an Uchiha step, you most likely need Senju DNA.

 

[Rafeal brown]

Tobi when posed as Madara did, I doubt this will be simply dimissed as "lolz Tobi wuz bullshiting". You may say you dont believe Tobi, but you cant act like if it was never hinted or mentioned where Tobi said Madara fought Hashirama explicitilly to obtainthe Senju DNA which is needed to become a Rikudou, in the same chapter he regained the Rinnegan and called Nagato a Rikudou too (something that according to Madara is only possible when you have Senju + Uchiha DNA) for having the Rinnegan.

The only reason i think madara wanted the 1st cells was so he could host the 10 tails and become the next rikudo not to obtain rinnegan as u claimed.

The uchiha can't host bijuus because they don't possess the sage body... They possess the eyes, they don't have the perfect body to host bijuus.

He called nagato the 3rd rikudo bcuz nagato was the third person to obtain the powers of both senju/uzumaki and uchiha, since nagato had the rikudo's eyes(rinnegan) and was an uzumaki (thus he possess the body)
It was never stated in the manga that senju cells are required to obtain rinnegan, how did you guys come to such a conclusion...?

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

The only reason i think madara wanted the 1st cells was so he could host the 10 tails and become the next rikudo not to obtain rinnegan as u claimed.

The uchiha can't host bijuus because they don't possess the sage body... They possess the eyes, they don't have the perfect body to host bijuus.

He called nagato the 3rd rikudo bcuz nagato was the third person to obtain the powers of both senju/uzumaki and uchiha, since nagato had the rikudo's eyes(rinnegan) and was an uzumaki (thus he possess the body)
It was never stated in the manga that senju cells are required to obtain rinnegan, how did you guys come to such a conclusion...?

It has been hinted because of what Tobi said, take that as you wish. The Rinnegan may be awakanable through EMS, this doesnt mean it is an Uchiha evolution depending on the method, if you need to add Senju DNA or some other mechanism to activate Rinnegan then it cant be considered an evolution OF THE SHARINGAN neither an Uchiha power, and remember it was mentioned something about the secrets of Madara's BODY (implying he has bodily power too, aka Senju), if such thing is needed to get Rinnegan then it means that the EMS can transform in Rinnegan however it wont mean that Rinnegan is a sharingan evolution (in the sense of being Uchiha).

If you can activate the Rinnegan without any help as the one I described then yes is a sharingan stage.

Kabuto: "As we guessed the sharingan could really get to the Rinnegan"

Madara: "I was able to awaken these eyes shortly before my death, you said your name is Kabuto...... what did you did to my body"

Madara: "You know the secrets of my body"

Again hinting that the Rinnegan requries bodily modifications not just eyes, couple that with what Madara said about becoming a Rikudou needing Senju + Uchiha.

 

[Rafeal brown]

I think it can be considered technically an evolution, what I am against is people considering it merely another more step just like 3 tomoe to MS and MS to EMS, the Rinnegan is a completely new doujutsu, it is an evolution yes, but not a sharingan anymore but a sharingan evolved into becoming something else.

And again I dont think it is simply an Uchiha step, we dont know the mechanisms to convert EMS to Rinnegan, but I doubt very much it is just as an Uchiha step, you most likely need Senju DNA.

You guys are both saying the same thing. Sharingan is a diluted blood line of the rinnegan.
But again where does it say you need senju cells to obtain rinnegan...? *signs*
it obvious that the rinnegan is an uchiha step... Kabuto confirmed an uchiha would obtain rinnegan when he progress pass the ms. Itachi said "a new unique occular jutsu was born in madara's eyes" when he obtained ems... That occular jutsu is probably the rinnegan...

 

[Rafeal brown]

It has been hinted because of what Tobi said, take that as you wish. The Rinnegan may be awakanable through EMS, this doesnt mean it is an Uchiha evolution depending on the method, if you need to add Senju DNA or some other mechanism to activate Rinnegan then it cant be considered an evolution OF THE SHARINGAN neither an Uchiha power, and remember it was mentioned something about the secrets of Madara's BODY (implying he has bodily power too, aka Senju), if such thing is needed to get Rinnegan then it means that the EMS can transform in Rinnegan however it wont mean that Rinnegan is a sharingan evolution (in the sense of being Uchiha).

If you can activate the Rinnegan without any help as the one I described then yes is a sharingan stage.

Kabuto: "As we guessed the sharingan could really get to the Rinnegan"

Madara: "I was able to awaken these eyes shortly before my death, you said your name is Kabuto...... what did you did to my body"

Madara: "You know the secrets of my body"

Again hinting that the Rinnegan requries bodily modifications not just eyes, couple that with what Madara said about becoming a Rikudou needing Senju + Uchiha.

Ok... You're wrong. It's considered an uchiha step because the uchihas inherited the sages eyes... And guess what? The sage had rinnegan... So it's obvious that someone amongst them could awaken rinnegan as well and they don't need help awaken it.
Yeah kabuto did something to madara's BODY NOT HIS EYES they're two different things.
The rinnegan belongs to the uchiha because it's their inheritance, you can't take it away from them and given the fact that it's their inheritance makes their power, you can call it an uchiha power if you want.
Yes it's true that to become a RIKUDO u need senju/uzumaki body and uchiha eyes. But senju cells are not necessary to obtain RINNEGAN... Again they're two different things. Perhaps you need to have a re-think about this.

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

Ok... You're wrong. It's considered an uchiha step because the uchihas inherited the sages eyes... And guess what? The sage had rinnegan... So it's obvious that someone amongst them could awaken rinnegan as well and they don't need help awaken it.
Yeah kabuto did something to madara's BODY NOT HIS EYES they're two different things.
The rinnegan belongs to the uchiha because it's their inheritance, you can't take it away from them and given the fact that it's their inheritance makes their power, you can call it an uchiha power if you want.
Yes it's true that to become a RIKUDO u need senju/uzumaki body and uchiha eyes. But senju cells are not necessary to obtain RINNEGAN... Again they're two different things. Perhaps you need to have a re-think about this.

You are aware that the elder son didnt had the Rinnegan right? And the elder son supposedly got the non-diluted package of all the Uchiha heritage.

 

[Astral]

Yeah, its not like the SO6P had to awaken it through sharingan first. Madara's bloodline is probably most potent of his and he was most capable of achieving it. It did say the bloodline thinned over the years of the descendents, but There's always a unique bloodline within a clan or 2.. Right. Rinnegan couldnt have evolved from EMS, EMS just helped him find a better understanding because Madara knows all about how he's a descendent of the SO6P Right. In theory, Naruto could awaken it as well because surely his bloodline is special and unique, as well as sasuke's.. But lets not go there because that's inevitably not going to happen. However it is still unexplained how the SO6P Seal was involved with Naruto's overcoming of the fox. On the contrary Kabuto and Madara's talk did relate to how deciphering the tablet related to awakening the rinnengan from Sharingan somehow

 

[Rafeal brown]

You are aware that the elder son didnt had the Rinnegan right? And the elder son supposedly got the non-diluted package of all the Uchiha heritage.

perhaps you need to re read this

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it was clearly stated that he inherit his FATHER'S EYES. How could you be so sure that the elder son couldn't use the rinnegan...? Take madara as an example, madara can activate and deactivate his rinnegan so it's very possible the elder son didn't activate his rinnegan in the flash back just because he didn't use it doesn't mean he can't use it. It's confirmed he can use the rinnegan because he possess his fathers eyes.

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

Yeah, its not like the SO6P had to awaken it through sharingan first. Madara's bloodline is probably most potent of his and he was most capable of achieving it. It did say the bloodline thinned over the years of the descendents, but There's always a unique bloodline within a clan or 2.. Right. Rinnegan couldnt have evolved from EMS, EMS just helped him find a better understanding because Madara knows all about how he's a descendent of the SO6P Right. In theory, Naruto could awaken it as well because surely his bloodline is special and unique, as well as sasuke's.. But lets not go there because that's inevitably not going to happen. However it is still unexplained how the SO6P Seal was involved with Naruto's overcoming of the fox. On the contrary Kabuto and Madara's talk did relate to how deciphering the tablet related to awakening the rinnengan from Sharingan somehow

I dont think Rikudou Sennin had to go through genetics at all. I think the whole "RS was Uchiha and Senju" is simply that he had both powers, not that he was literally carrying the DNA of these bloodlines who didnt even existed. I think RS simply had a massively strong body or was a super sealer like the Uzumakis were, then when he got the Juubi which according to Tobi is what made him a god, he got the Juubi's eye and also his body got strenghtened further like that of a Senju just as how Naruto's body change when he is using Kyuubi's chakra.

Remember the Bijuus have active and latent traits that pass to their jinchuurikis, for example Naruto having whiskers and Kushina having hair that move like tails is a passive trait of the Kyuubi, Naruto having a shroud and Kyuubi powers is an active trait, something he gets when going jinchuuriki form.

I think the same applied ot the RS, but as the Juubi is on a completely different level his passive and active traits are so too. RS didnt had the Rinnegan and it is possible he didnt even had the super strong Senju body, but was simply a massive sealer (maybe RS was an Uzumaki), then when RS got the Juubi as a passive trait instead of getting whiskers he got the Juubi's eye minus the sharingan tomoes, aka the Rinnegan was when Rikudou wasnt using the Juubi's chakra also his body got super strenght merely for having the Juubi, then when using the Juubi chakra he would have the Rinnegan with tomoes and bodily transformations like that of Naruto's. After having sons then he passed to them with genes his super strong body to the younger son and a diluted version of the Rinnegan to the elder son.

Rikudou didnt went through genetics, he was the real man, he outright went for it without the need of magic genes. Basically the Senju and Uchiha are simply a genetic version of what Rikudou achieved himself.

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

perhaps you need to re read this

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it was clearly stated that he inherit his FATHER'S EYES. How could you be so sure that the elder son couldn't use the rinnegan...? Take madara as an example, madara can activate and deactivate his rinnegan so it's very possible the elder son didn't activate his rinnegan in the flash back just because he didn't use it doesn't mean he can't use it. It's confirmed he can use the rinnegan because he possess his fathers eyes.

Show me a panel where he got the Rinnegan otherwise he got other eyes, if any you are just making as much of a theory and assumption as I am.

 

[Astral]

I dont think Rikudou Sennin had to go through genetics at all. I think the whole "RS was Uchiha and Senju" is simply that he had both powers, not that he was literally carrying the DNA of these bloodlines who didnt even existed. I think RS simply had a massively strong body or was a super sealer like the Uzumakis were, then when he got the Juubi which according to Tobi is what made him a god, he got the Juubi's eye and also his body got strenghtened further like that of a Senju just as how Naruto's body change when he is using Kyuubi's chakra.

Remember the Bijuus have active and latent traits that pass to their jinchuurikis, for example Naruto having whiskers and Kushina having hair that move like tails is a passive trait of the Kyuubi, Naruto having a shroud and Kyuubi powers is an active trait, something he gets when going jinchuuriki form.

I think the same applied ot the RS, but as the Juubi is on a completely different level his passive and active traits are so too. RS didnt had the Rinnegan and it is possible he didnt even had the super strong Senju body, but was simply a massive sealer (maybe RS was an Uzumaki), then when RS got the Juubi as a passive trait instead of getting whiskers he got the Juubi's eye minus the sharingan tomoes, aka the Rinnegan was when Rikudou wasnt using the Juubi's chakra also his body got super strenght merely for having the Juubi, then when using the Juubi chakra he would have the Rinnegan with tomoes and bodily transformations like that of Naruto's. After having sons then he passed to them with genes his super strong body to the younger son and a diluted version of the Rinnegan to the elder son.

Rikudou didnt went through genetics, he was the real man, he outright went for it without the need of magic genes. Basically the Senju and Uchiha are simply a genetic version of what Rikudou achieved himself.

That would make sense on how the rinnengan came to be, saying the juubi had it first, and when the rikudo overcame it and sealed it into him, he gained the eyes as a passive trait. Then when he had his sons, theres no way either of them could get the full blown rinnengan w/o earning it but never did. Because neither of them had rinnengan's right? Just 2 different sharingan i believe. Which explains how the rinnengan and sharingan came to be. Which makes the first half of the story completed. Since madara represents the eyes on the sage, being direct descendents of the uchiha; being capable. So how does the Senju get there completion of the sage? That's what i want to know, and Naruto will be the first to awaken it, unless is rikudo mode doesnt already, he literaly has the body when he's in fox mode lol. But from what it looks like hes deffinitly not on par with edo madara, so he's still missing the "Completion" factor and perhaps cooperating with the fox gives us our answer

 

[Rafeal brown]

Show me a panel where he got the Rinnegan otherwise he got other eyes, if any you are just making as much of a theory and assumption as I am.

Yes i was speculating but i also used facts from the manga to back up my theory just like you did.

My point is short and simple... But i'll explain as much as i can.

The uchiha ancestors inherited the sage eyes as stated in the manga, the sage possessed the rinnegan.

Meaning the uchiha should possess the rinnegan as well but they possessed a diluted blood line of the rinnegan which is the sharingan. So it's very possible one of them could awaken the rinnegan and they don't need help of senju or uzumaki to awaken it because it's their inheritance.

I don't beleive naruto can awaken the rinnegan because he's an uzumaki and uzumakis don't possess the sage eyes but he can host even the 10 tails because he possess the sage perfect body and he doesn't need help from uchiha to host it... The younger son could host the 10 tails as well because he inherited his fathers body.
And i beleive the elder son could use the rinnegan because we were told he inherited the sage eyes.

 

[ShinobiEmperor]

Yes i was speculating but i also used facts from the manga to back up my theory just like you did.

My point is short and simple... But i'll explain as much as i can.

The uchiha ancestors inherited the sage eyes as stated in the manga, the sage possessed the rinnegan.

Meaning the uchiha should possess the rinnegan as well but they possessed a diluted blood line of the rinnegan which is the sharingan. So it's very possible one of them could awaken the rinnegan and they don't need help of senju or uzumaki to awaken it because it's their inheritance.

I don't beleive naruto can awaken the rinnegan because he's an uzumaki and uzumakis don't possess the sage eyes but he can host even the 10 tails because he possess the sage perfect body and he doesn't need help from uchiha to host it... The younger son could host the 10 tails as well because he inherited his fathers body.
And i beleive the elder son could use the rinnegan because we were told he inherited the sage eyes.

If what you say is true, wouldnt that in theory make the body of the sage better? Think about it, according to Madara what made Rikudou a god is the Juubi.

If a Senju or Uzumaki gets the Juubi it will not only get the chakra, but obviously should also gain its eyes becoming a full sage. Basically this would mean Senjus have the potential to become a full sage, while Uchihas doesnt.

 

[Rafeal brown]

If what you say is true, wouldnt that in theory make the body of the sage better? Think about it, according to Madara what made Rikudou a god is the Juubi.

If a Senju or Uzumaki gets the Juubi it will not only get the chakra, but obviously should also gain its eyes becoming a full sage. Basically this would mean Senjus have the potential to become a full sage, while Uchihas doesnt.

We still don't know the origin of the rinnegan but if you ask me i'd say the juubi wasn't the origin of the rinnegan.
I don't think his body was stronger than his eyes here

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we see madara saying he'll improve the power of his eyes by becoming the juubi junchuruki and cast a powerful genjutsu on the world. It shows that becoming a junchuruki can improve the users eyes... Where am i going with this you may ask...? Simple, the sage eyes were improved when he became the juubi junchuruki... It's a possibility that there's another stage of the sharingan after the rinnegan or the sage acquired the rinnegan after becoming the juubi junchuruki which i think is unlikely because madara have acquired rinnegan without having the juubi.

 

[~Yubel~]

So you need senju+uchiha to have the rinnegan? No problem, every uchiha has senju blood in their heritage, senju has uchiha blood in their heritage so if either of the clans release their full potential then i think they can reach rinnegan.