Why Hashirama > BM Naruto

[The Eye]

...this is just a bad match up, doesnt mean he is stronger.

 

[Punk Hazard]

naruto destroyed the necklace, hashi cant take control of the fox without it

naruto>hashi as of right now

 

[soulreaper11]

agree everyone think he is powerful cause he has the fox when it on last 5minutes and I think he has not surpass the 1st and 3rd hokage.

 

[Akatsuki wise guy]

naruto destroyed the necklace, hashi cant take control of the fox without it

naruto>hashi as of right now

doesnt need the necklace. can u imagine him during his fight with madara having to wrap the necklace around the nine tails then subdue him.

 

[Viewtiful]

naruto destroyed the necklace, hashi cant take control of the fox without it

naruto>hashi as of right now

Only Yamato specifically needed the necklace. It jsut enhances the techique. The fact that at one point he had multiple Tailed Beasts under his control means that he either doesn't need the necklace at all (which is likely) or that he had other technique that made use of his unique Biju-controlling power.

 

[nameless1]

naruto destroyed the necklace, hashi cant take control of the fox without it

naruto>hashi as of right now

necklace helped yamato control fox/4 tail naruto BECAUSE it belonged to 1st. some power remained in it and boosted yamato's control. it's said in manga somewhere after naru/oro fight.

i haven't read whole thread and maybe someone already said it but i think 1st could control bijuu's will not chakra itself. we know that kyuubi's will is attached to it's chakra - whole point of fighting kyuubi was to separate them so naruto could be able to use chakra without losing control over his body.
if it's true then naruto>1st
if not and first can use mokuton on larger scale than edo madara - naruto is going to be f****d

 

[xxSAGExx]

OK so, I've seen some people claiming BM Naruto surpasses all other Hokage's. This is possibly true except for when it comes to the 1st Hokage. BM Naruto cannot defeat Hashirama Senju. This is why:

'Hashirama Senju is considered by many as the most powerful shinobi of his time. He was greatly respected by most shinobi during his lifetime, such that Tobi claimed Hashirama was the one person whom he respected the most as well as detested. His prowess and abilities were so great that he was able to not only fight on equal footing with Madara Uchiha despite his power of Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan and having the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox at his side, but even gained victory in the end and survived the battle.'

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Hashirama did not use Kurama against Madara at ANY POINT in the battle. He simply wrestled it away from Madara and his wife sealed it inside of her. People think she then actively aided him in battle; no, she aided him because the 9 tails was locked away and couldn't be use by Madara. SIMPLE.

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Hashirama won against EMS Madara who had Kurama under his control. Dont forget this is Kurama with double the chakra (Yin chakra not sealed at the time). Hashirama controlled 7 tailed beasts at a point in time. 7. Base Naruto (no Kurama basically)< Madara. If Hashirama won, how on earth would Naruto beat him?

Hashirama can just suppress Kurama's chakra and a major source of Naruto's stamina and power is no longer available to him. Hence, BM is rendered useless. Remember that necklace Tsunade passed down to Naruto which could control his Kyuubi chakra? Are you forgetting where it came from? Able to supress Kyuubi's chakra and look how small it is:

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He would not be able to dodge a non-edo, non-plot no jutsu Hashirama Mokuton attack. It created the entire hidden leaf forrest for goodness sake.

Yamato was able to restrain 4 tailed Naruto with his Wood Release/Mokuton.

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Madara used his Wood Release to attack and kill nearly a whole army section. These Wood Releases' power is a small fraction of the power Hashirama is able to generate. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THAT HASHIRAMA'S MOKUTON CAN SUPRESS THE KYUUBI'S CHAKRA. Mokuton is the strongest KKG aside from the eye dojutsus. Yamato admitted he was nowhere near the level of Hashirama Senju, and Madara was able to use such a powerful Mokuton technique with his first try. Now imagine how strong Hashirama's mastered version was.

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Skip to 2mins:

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Look at how many people have fought to get just a tiny bit of Hashirama's DNA. His chakra reserves were immense, and have subsequently allowed other shinobi's to amplify and control various other abilities. An entire Zetsu army was made out of his DNA. Tobi is flippin trying to grow another Hashirama for goodness sake:

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Hashirama also has Bringer of Darkness. Tell me WTF will Naruto do against that?

I'm not hating on Naruto or anything but people need to realise that Hashirama Senju would defeat him everytime.

I laugh at the fact you didn't do enough research on Naruto and Kurama lol
First you need to understand the way Naruto use Kurama is different than the way Madara or Hashirama can. Madara controlle the fox and had no access to Kurama's powers. Naruto is working with Kurama as a team and is actually using Kurama's power. Also do you know that Kurama's chakra changed right? Before Kurama's chakra was full of hatred but after Naruto took some of Kurama's chakra, it was filled with life energy. Kurama's chakra was reacting to Yamato's wood element in a positive way so I doubt Hashimara can surpress it now since he use his wood element to do so. Really think tbb wouldn't destroy Hashimrama's forest? P.S Everything you think you know about Naruto you don't. The power you saw Naruto use against Tobi is nothing compared to what he can do at full power. Naruto wasted a lot of chakra in his training then split his power among his shadow clones and used a lot more chakra. This was Naruto's chakra that he wasted sice Bee stated the chakra Naruto takes from the fox will be his forever when Naruto was fighting Kurama. Naruto was using whatever chakra he got from the Fox to go BM and use a tbb equal to 5 Bijuus and still has confidence in being able to fight some more. Rasen shuriken will do damage to plus powers he gained from the 5 Bijuus (He said he learned alot of difficult names and power lies in the name.) Lets not forget Naruto has summons as well, and Kurama's will was separated from his chakra by Naruto before but now they are working together.

 

[Ryuu..]

I laugh at the fact you didn't do enough research on Naruto and Kurama lol
First you need to understand the way Naruto use Kurama is different than the way Madara or Hashirama can. Madara controlle the fox and had no access to Kurama's powers. Naruto is working with Kurama as a team and is actually using Kurama's power. Also do you know that Kurama's chakra changed right? Before Kurama's chakra was full of hatred but after Naruto took some of Kurama's chakra, it was filled with life energy. Kurama's chakra was reacting to Yamato's wood element in a positive way so I doubt Hashimara can surpress it now since he use his wood element to do so. Really think tbb wouldn't destroy Hashimrama's forest? P.S Everything you think you know about Naruto you don't. The power you saw Naruto use against Tobi is nothing compared to what he can do at full power. Naruto wasted a lot of chakra in his training then split his power among his shadow clones and used a lot more chakra. This was Naruto's chakra that he wasted sice Bee stated the chakra Naruto takes from the fox will be his forever when Naruto was fighting Kurama. Naruto was using whatever chakra he got from the Fox to go BM and use a tbb equal to 5 Bijuus and still has confidence in being able to fight some more. Rasen shuriken will do damage to plus powers he gained from the 5 Bijuus (He said he learned alot of difficult names and power lies in the name.) Lets not forget Naruto has summons as well, and Kurama's will was separated from his chakra by Naruto before but now they are working together.

You sound like a Naruto fanboy no offence.

 

[Viewtiful]

naruto destroyed the necklace, hashi cant take control of the fox without it

naruto>hashi as of right now

Only Yamato specifically needed the necklace. It jsut enhances the techique. The fact that at one point he had multiple Tailed Beasts under his control means that he either doesn't need the necklace at all (which is likely) or that he had other technique that made use of his unique Biju-controlling power.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Only Yamato specifically needed the necklace. It jsut enhances the techique. The fact that at one point he had multiple Tailed Beasts under his control means that he either doesn't need the necklace at all (which is likely) or that he had other technique that made use of his unique Biju-controlling power.

The manga says Hashirama used it as well to boost his power to suppress the tailed beasts.

He might not have needed it but it did help him.

 

[warlee]

Naruto bitchslap and tear this man before he made any hand seal unless you telling me he can react to naruto.

 

[Shadowslayer]

I firmly(giggtey) believe that naruto would get his ass kicked just on pure fact that he beat madara, and the nine tailed fox at the sametime at the valley of end, he has alot more experience in combat than naruto, and is the first hokage b1tCh haha my two cents

 

[xxSAGExx]

agree everyone think he is powerful cause he has the fox when it on last 5minutes and I think he has not surpass the 1st and 3rd hokage.

Learn to read, the fox said their link was far from perfect. When Naruto met all of the jinchuurikis the fox said they were perfectly linked.

I firmly(giggtey) believe that naruto would get his ass kicked just on pure fact that he beat madara, and the nine tailed fox at the sametime at the valley of end, he has alot more experience in combat than naruto, and is the first hokage b1tCh haha my two cents

I laugh at the fact you didn't do enough research on Naruto and Kurama lol
First you need to understand the way Naruto use Kurama is different than the way Madara or Hashirama can. Madara controlle the fox and had no access to Kurama's powers. Naruto is working with Kurama as a team and is actually using Kurama's power. Also do you know that Kurama's chakra changed right? Before Kurama's chakra was full of hatred but after Naruto took some of Kurama's chakra, it was filled with life energy. Kurama's chakra was reacting to Yamato's wood element in a positive way so I doubt Hashimara can surpress it now since he use his wood element to do so. Really think tbb wouldn't destroy Hashimrama's forest? P.S Everything you think you know about Naruto you don't. The power you saw Naruto use against Tobi is nothing compared to what he can do at full power. Naruto wasted a lot of chakra in his training then split his power among his shadow clones and used a lot more chakra. This was Naruto's chakra that he wasted sice Bee stated the chakra Naruto takes from the fox will be his forever when Naruto was fighting Kurama. Naruto was using whatever chakra he got from the Fox to go BM and use a tbb equal to 5 Bijuus and still has confidence in being able to fight some more. Rasen shuriken will do damage to plus powers he gained from the 5 Bijuus (He said he learned alot of difficult names and power lies in the name.) Lets not forget Naruto has summons as well, and Kurama's will was separated from his chakra by Naruto before but now they are working together.

You sound like a Naruto fanboy no offence.

I like all ninjas that can throw down, just because te creator of this thread doesn't do his research before making a thread I look like fanboy? Everything I said is right in the Manga, that''s facts. If you call someone who backs up the one everyone is bashing without all the info a fanboy then I guess I'm a fanboy. I would like for someone to try and prove me wrong because I got more info to back me up.

 

[Lankeysob]

The argument that the Kyuubi still only has half of his chakra is absolutely silly. Chakra returns after its been used, that's why Naruto's seal got weaker as he got older. Also its silly to believe that a Kyuubi with only half its chakra is as strong as 5 tailed beasts.

 

[Viewtiful]

The manga says Hashirama used it as well to boost his power to suppress the tailed beasts.

He might not have needed it but it did help him.

Isn't that exactly what my post said?

The argument that the Kyuubi still only has half of his chakra is absolutely silly. Chakra returns after its been used, that's why Naruto's seal got weaker as he got older. Also its silly to believe that a Kyuubi with only half its chakra is as strong as 5 tailed beasts.

The problem is, it didn't just lose chakra. Shiki Fujin isn't an ordinary Fuinjutsu, that's for sure. When Hiruzen used it on Oro, Oro couldn't just have his arms cut off his arms and heal them obviously, since the soul that reisded in his arms was severed. Whether Kurama suffered a similar affliction is hard to say, though it does seem unlikely given the power it has displayed. The problem is that Naruto's chakra mode was stated to have a great life giving energy, which is a property of Yang Release. :shrug:

 

[Turson]

The problem is, it didn't just lose chakra. Shiki Fujin isn't an ordinary Fuinjutsu, that's for sure. When Hiruzen used it on Oro, Oro couldn't just have his arms cut off his arms and heal them obviously, since the soul that reisded in his arms was severed. Whether Kurama suffered a similar affliction is hard to say, though it does seem unlikely given the power it has displayed. The problem is that Naruto's chakra mode was stated to have a great life giving energy, which is a property of Yang Release. :shrug:

But TBB contains of Yin and Yang release. If Kyuubi sealed in Naruto had only one piece of it, blondie wouldnt be able to use this attack.
Therefore Im certain that the other half of Kyuubis chakra just regenerated.

 

[Viewtiful]

But TBB contains of Yin and Yang release. If Kyuubi sealed in Naruto had only one piece of it, blondie wouldnt be able to use this attack.
Therefore Im certain that the other half of Kyuubis chakra just regenerated.

A few things:

-B said that the TBB, and Tailed Beast chakra, consists of positive black chakra (+の黒チャクラ, purasu no kuro chakura), and negative white chakra (−の白チャクラ, mainasu no shiro chakura). Even though those could be and probably are one and the same, it seems odd that Kishi would randomly have B refer to them as such.

-Chakra's nature can be transformed. Naruto transforms the Yang chakra into Wind Release to create Rasenshruiken. I don't think it would be hard to simply transform the chakra into "positive black chakra" as well.

Who knows. Kishi may rectify this.

 

[Turson]

A few things:

-B said that the TBB, and Tailed Beast chakra, consists of positive black chakra (+の黒チャクラ, purasu no kuro chakura), and negative white chakra (−の白チャクラ, mainasu no shiro chakura). Even though those could be and probably are one and the same, it seems odd that Kishi would randomly have B refer to them as such.

-Chakra's nature can be transformed. Naruto transforms the Yang chakra into Wind Release to create Rasenshruiken. I don't think it would be hard to simply transform the chakra into "positive black chakra" as well.

Who knows. Kishi may rectify this.

But another thing is, Kyuubi never complained that he lost half of its power. Never. Its really strange, considering Kyuubis character. Moreover, it should be impossible to revive Jyuubi with only half of Kyuubis chakra, since its by far the most powerful of all Bijuus, its the most important piece.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

The argument that the Kyuubi still only has half of his chakra is absolutely silly. Chakra returns after its been used, that's why Naruto's seal got weaker as he got older. Also its silly to believe that a Kyuubi with only half its chakra is as strong as 5 tailed beasts.

Actually it is half of the Kyuubi's potential chakra. Minato sealed it, it isn't like the chakra was used on jutsus and then regenerates.

And as for the 9-tails being = or > than 5 tailed beasts, it actually makes perfect sense.

First off, when Hashirama split up the bijuu to different villages, how many bijuu did Konoha get? Just the Kyuubi, yet there were some villages with 2 or even 3 jinchurikki.

But that isn't my whole argument. Here is where it gets real. Akatsuki said that they had to seal the 9-tails last or otherwise the balance in the Gedo Mazo statue would be messed up and the statue would be destroyed.

So think about that for a second, what does balance mean? Equal, or about equal. So the 9-tails full chakra (because Akatsuki didn't know that half of the kyuubi chakra was forever sealed) is enough to balance out the 1-8 tails chakra.

so FULL 9-tails ~~ 1-8tails chakra

so 1/2 of the 9-tails chakra should be => than 2,3,5,6,7 tails.

Considering that they are missing the 8tails, (the second strongest), the 4 tails, and the 1-tails.

Anyway I hope I have convinced you. It actually makes perfect sense.

Either way I still think Naruto would beat Hashirama.

Isn't that exactly what my post said?

I didn't take it that way but I might have just misunderstood. Sorry about that

 

[TouchMyMangos]

I agree, I don't see how Naruto could dodge a Mokuton attack that has the potential to create something the size of the hidden leaf forrest in one go.