Why do you think isshiki is so much stronger than momo

[Sagebee]

It seems isshiki is in a completely different class weaker than kaguya but seemingly stronger than momo even tho he absorbed kinshiki and had multiple rinnegans

Why do you think isshiki is stronger than momo?

 

[salamander uchiha]

It could just be similar to Akatauki duos, some are far stronger than others. Also, the power scaling is all over the place, truth be told Jigen is quite weak, but Noodles and Sausage are nerfed badly.

 

[Sagebee]

It could just be similar to Akatauki duos, some are far stronger than others. Also, the power scaling is all over the place, truth be told Jigen is quite weak, but Noodles and Sausage are nerfed badly.

Well jigen is weak but in his incomplete form he was able to make quick work of naruto and sasuke so you can imagine what a revived isshiki can do to them

While momo was struggling against naruto and sasuke to eventually be defeated

Your right ototsuchi probably have there own power ranking systems and unlike momo isshiku seems like a warrior type ototsuchi able to take down susanoo defenses with brute force.

So isshiki must be a high tier ototsuchi I heard urashiki was fodder in the anime got to have low tier ototsuchi aswell wonder what exactly differentiates there power levels I'm assuming chakra amount, eye techniques and physical skills

 

[salamander uchiha]

Well jigen is weak but in his incomplete form he was able to make quick work of naruto and sasuke so you can imagine what a revived isshiki can do to them

While momo was struggling against naruto and sasuke to eventually be defeated

Your right ototsuchi probably have there own power ranking systems and unlike momo isshiku seems like a warrior type ototsuchi able to take down susanoo defenses with brute force.

So isshiki must be a high tier ototsuchi I heard urashiki was fodder in the anime got to have low tier ototsuchi aswell wonder what exactly differentiates there power levels I'm assuming chakra amount, eye techniques and physical skills

This is the point, Naruto and Sasuke were able to give Kaguya a hard time via tactics etc. And she stomped Prime Ishiki while being far weaker than she was against Naruto and Sasuke. The two should've stomped this heavily weakened Ishiki, who was nowhere near his prime.

Do you see the problem?

Yes, I think Ishiki is one of the stronger members of the clan. That would make sense and seems reasonable, if we try and reconcile everything. The issues still remain with the scaling being all over the place.

 

[Sagebee]

This is the point, Naruto and Sasuke were able to give Kaguya a hard time via tactics etc. And she stomped Prime Ishiki while being far weaker than she was against Naruto and Sasuke. The two should've stomped this heavily weakened Ishiki, who was nowhere near his prime.

Do you see the problem?

Yes, I think Ishiki is one of the stronger members of the clan. That would make sense and seems reasonable, if we try and reconcile everything. The issues still remain with the scaling being all over the place.

I do agree power levels are all over the place dont really call bs to isshiki over power them tho they were able to give kaguya trouble but kaguya doesn't seem like a warrior just a person with immense power while isshiki seemed like a warrior all we know is hes physically really strong and has a unique space time dont really call bs to either of that. Also they are the main threat to the series so of course they will be portrayed stronger than the former protagonists.

Naruto struggling against some kara fighters I do call bs too.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I do agree power levels are all over the place dont really call bs to isshiki over power them tho they were able to give kaguya trouble but kaguya doesn't seem like a warrior just a person with immense power while isshiki seemed like a warrior all we know is hes physically really strong and has a unique space time dont really call bs to either of that. Also they are the main threat to the series so of course they will be portrayed stronger than the former protagonists.

Naruto struggling against some kara fighters I do call bs too.

The issue then is Kaguya scrubbed him and left him on the verge of death with near depleted chakra reserves. So clearly they had a battle in which he was far inferior to her. The issue is moreso that prime Ishiki got scrubbed by a far weaker Kaguya to the one that fought Naruto and Sasuke. Then a far inferior Ishiki in a far inferior vessel somehow takes down the two. Truth be told, she was introduced because there was no way Naruro and Sasuke were beating Madara. The writing style is just abysmal, the threat remained secret for so long (1000+ years), and decided to surface today. His deteriorating vessel took 1000+ years to deteroriate, and remained intact (not ageing or decaying). He couldn't find a vessel in 1000 years+ I guess he didn't know Indra and Asura were popping out perfect vessels for 1000 years. This is just the tip of the iceberg with all the problems that arise, because of the abysmal writing.

Then you have what you mentioned about Naruro getting fodderised by Kara members.

 

[Sagebee]

The issue then is Kaguya scrubbed him and left him on the verge of death with near depleted chakra reserves. So clearly they had a battle in which he was far inferior to her. The issue is moreso that prime Ishiki got scrubbed by a far weaker Kaguya to the one that fought Naruto and Sasuke. Then a far inferior Ishiki in a far inferior vessel somehow takes down the two. Truth be told, she was introduced because there was no way Naruro and Sasuke were beating Madara. The writing style is just abysmal, the threat remained secret for so long (1000+ years), and decided to surface today. His deteriorating vessel took 1000+ years to deteroriate, and remained intact (not ageing or decaying). He couldn't find a vessel in 1000 years+ I guess he didn't know Indra and Asura were popping out perfect vessels for 1000 years. This is just the tip of the iceberg with all the problems that arise, because of the abysmal writing.

Then you have what you mentioned about Naruro getting fodderised by Kara members.

Well it's not like they won with straight up power in kaguya fight it was teamwork and trickery. Makes sense that kaguya would over power isshiki since she was likely using the juubi and might of beat him with a surprise attack.

I do agree I would think an adult naruto and sasuke should of put up a better fught against a weaker isshiki but author is creating power scaling how strong isshiki and dont think its irrational mostly dont like preferential taste than naruto and sasuke being portrayed weaker than they are.

Also even tho power scaling at times is pretty terrible worst cases is naruto versus delta and boro versus team 7 and even momo and kinshiki versus naruto and sasuke and the kages.

I personally take issue to the character writing than anything it feels each arc villains keep coming aee super expendable with no real personality to them.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Well it's not like they won with straight up power in kaguya fight it was teamwork and trickery. Makes sense that kaguya would over power isshiki since she was likely using the juubi and might of beat him with a surprise attack.

The problem with that is the Otstsuki harvest the divine tree and she negged Ishiki before taking the fruit and becoming the Jyubi.

I do agree I would think an adult naruto and sasuke should of put up a better fught against a weaker isshiki but author is creating power scaling how strong isshiki and dont think its irrational mostly dont like preferential taste than naruto and sasuke being portrayed weaker than they are.

The author is doing a really bad job, imo. His story heavily diverged from Kishi's, then breaks the power scaling, throwing it all over the place. As things are being portrayed Naruto and Sasuke are around Nagato level at best.

Also even tho power scaling at times is pretty terrible worst cases is naruto versus delta and boro versus team 7 and even momo and kinshiki versus naruto and sasuke and the kages.

I personally take issue to the character writing than anything it feels each arc villains keep coming aee super expendable with no real personality to them.

So you're issue is forced plot convenient writings and everything happening for the sake of complacency?

My issues are those and several more.

 

[Sagebee]

The problem with that is the Otstsuki harvest the divine tree and she negged Ishiki before taking the fruit and becoming the Jyubi.



The author is doing a really bad job, imo. His story heavily diverged from Kishi's, then breaks the power scaling, throwing it all over the place. As things are being portrayed Naruto and Sasuke are around Nagato level at best.



So you're issue is forced plot convenient writings and everything happening for the sake of complacency?

My issues are those and several more.

How do you know she beat him before harvest?

Well partially my issue is plot convient writing but more so the character writing from the protagonist to villains. For protagonist we just keep getting fight scenes hardly developing characters. And than constantly pumping out villains especially overarching ones to completely mistreat and not develop them.

Character writing is definitely alot worse even for shippuden standards.

 

[salamander uchiha]

How do you know she beat him before harvest?

Well partially my issue is plot convient writing but more so the character writing from the protagonist to villains. For protagonist we just keep getting fight scenes hardly developing characters. And than constantly pumping out villains especially overarching ones to completely mistreat and not develop them.

Character writing is definitely alot worse even for shippuden standards.

It tells you in the story, she negged him so she could get the fruit all to herself.

 

[Sagebee]

It tells you in the story, she negged him so she could get the fruit all to herself.

The chapter doesnt make clear if she had the fruit in time or not amado just speculating why she backstabbed him and doubt she could mortally wound him without it.

 

[Uverdore9]

Typical Shonen shit, progressively villains significantly increment thier battlefield power capabilities IMO.

 

[salamander uchiha]

The chapter doesnt make clear if she had the fruit in time or not amado just speculating why she backstabbed him and doubt she could mortally wound him without it.

It does, it tells you she wanted the fruit all to herself so negged Ishiki. If she already has the fruit, then he can't take it from her, and she has no need to fodderise him. Secondly, Amado is used as a convenient info dropper. He knows everything he shouldn't know (poor writing).

 

[Sagebee]

It does, it tells you she wanted the fruit all to herself so negged Ishiki. If she already has the fruit, then he can't take it from her, and she has no need to fodderise him. Secondly, Amado is used as a convenient info dropper. He knows everything he shouldn't know (poor writing).

Even if she ate he could get it back momo turned kinshiki into a chakra fruit series never says if you eat a god fruit you cant extract the power back. Like extract same way extracted kyuubi chakra from naruto

 

[salamander uchiha]

Even if she ate he could get it back momo turned kinshiki into a chakra fruit series never says if you eat a god fruit you cant extract the power back. Like extract same way extracted kyuubi chakra from naruto

No, it's not the same. And no Ishiki hasn't show the same power as Momoshiki. Also, I repeat the fruit wasn't eaten, when Ishiki was put out like a fodder. Kyuubi is different from the chakra tree. The chakra tree becomes a part of the individuals being, they become the Jyuubi itself.

 

[Sagebee]

No, it's not the same. And no Ishiki hasn't show the same power as Momoshiki. Also, I repeat the fruit wasn't eaten, when Ishiki was put out like a fodder. Kyuubi is different from the chakra tree. The chakra tree becomes a part of the individuals being, they become the Jyuubi itself.

I think logically she has no way to deathly beat isshiki without the chakra fruit and again they passage isnt clear if she did or not we will need more clarification to know for sure.

But again just logically speaking kaguya hasnt shown power of her own that could stand against him so I don't see no other choice but to use it.

And we know kaguya initially ate the fruit to save people from the god tree isshiki would also be a threat to suggesting even more she ate it in response to him.

Anyway this is conjecture from both our parts we need to wait to know for sure.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I think logically she has no way to deathly beat isshiki without the chakra fruit and again they passage isnt clear if she did or not we will need more clarification to know for sure.

But again just logically speaking kaguya hasnt shown power of her own that could stand against him so I don't see no other choice but to use it.

And we know kaguya initially ate the fruit to save people from the god tree isshiki would also be a threat to suggesting even more she ate it in response to him.

Anyway this is conjecture from both our parts we need to wait to know for sure.

What logic are you using? They fought because there was disagreement, and she wanted the fruit for herself. That passage is pretty clear.

The problem is nothing says Kaguya didn't possess all those powers before hand except IT and dimension shifting?

We know how Ashbone works, if she had used Ashbone to wreck Ishiki's body, the only destructive jutsu she has shown, he would be dust. That means she has other offensive jutsu outside of Ashbone.

The old lore has been thrown into the dustbin, by this second rate writer. She negged Ishiki, then went onto eat the fruit and save the world. That's how I read it, and the order of events are displayed.

 

[Sagebee]

What logic are you using? They fought because there was disagreement, and she wanted the fruit for herself. That passage is pretty clear.

The problem is nothing says Kaguya didn't possess all those powers before hand except IT and dimension shifting?

We know how Ashbone works, if she had used Ashbone to wreck Ishiki's body, the only destructive jutsu she has shown, he would be dust. That means she has other offensive jutsu outside of Ashbone.

The old lore has been thrown into the dustbin, by this second rate writer. She negged Ishiki, then went onto eat the fruit and save the world. That's how I read it, and the order of events are displayed.

Amado says he thinks they fought for the fruit that doesnt make clear if anyone has it just giving speculation on motive.

Dont think she had reality warping and creating abilities only ability she seems have her own is the byakugan everything else is juubi given.

Why do you say the old lore is tossed to the side dont think ita retconned just added to.

Your assuming some definite things from those panels which it's not saying but your assuming.

Your also assuming kaguya capabilities in base form when we never told her base form abilities are.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Amado says he thinks they fought for the fruit that doesnt make clear if anyone has it just giving speculation on motive.

Dont think she had reality warping and creating abilities only ability she seems have her own is the byakugan everything else is juubi given.

Why do you say the old lore is tossed to the side dont think ita retconned just added to.

Your assuming some definite things from those panels which it's not saying but your assuming.

Your also assuming kaguya capabilities in base form when we never told her base form abilities are.

Of course it's definite, however one thi g is for sure it wasn't harvested or taken at that point. Amado is used for information dropping purposes.

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[Sagebee]

Of course it's definite, however one thi g is for sure it wasn't harvested or taken at that point. Amado is used for information dropping purposes.

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Again not definite your acting like I didnt reread that panel multiple times saying they came to earth to harvest a chakra fruit something happened and they fought amado doesnt really know the reason of why. No where does it allude if she does or doesnt have the fruit in the time.

You think it does clearly explain.