Why do you think isshiki is so much stronger than momo

salamander uchiha

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Again not definite your acting like I didnt reread that panel multiple times saying they came to earth to harvest a chakra fruit something happened and they fought amado doesnt really know the reason of why. No where does it allude if she does or doesnt have the fruit in the time.

You think it does clearly explain.
Personal beef or wanting the fruit all for herself

Yes it does, the fight was either for personal reasons or to acquire the fruit. Ie. So Ishiki can't take it. That actually tells you she didn't have it at that point, even if the fight wasn't over the fruit. Follow the order of words and events.

1. Plan is to plant tree harvest fruit.
2. Kaguya and he have a dispute of some sorts.
3. Amado doesnt know whether it was something else or she wanted the fruit for herself.
4. She negs him either way, so he can't take the fruit.
5. She acquires the fruit and becomes sovereign.

I don't see how you're reading it any other way, short of trying to cover for Ishiki.
 

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Personal beef or wanting the fruit all for herself

Yes it does, the fight was either for personal reasons or to acquire the fruit. Ie. So Ishiki can't take it. That actually tells you she didn't have it at that point, even if the fight wasn't over the fruit. Follow the order of words and events.

1. Plan is to plant tree harvest fruit.
2. Kaguya and he have a dispute of some sorts.
3. Amado doesnt know whether it was something else or she wanted the fruit for herself.
4. She negs him either way, so he can't take the fruit.
5. She acquires the fruit and becomes sovereign.

I don't see how you're reading it any other way, short of trying to cover for Ishiki.
Let's go over your sequence of points

1) is fine

2) is fine

3) amado says they fought and just proposes a motive which I think your in agreement with

4) Yes he beats him where are you pulling that isshiki tried to take the fruit

5) where are you pulling from this she obtained the fruit after the fight

The status of the fruit in this is never explained we just know they came to earth to harvest it amado telling us the purpose they came not if chakra fruit existed at the time. Your assuming things that's not stated or even alluded to.

To stop circular arguement can you post a line that definitely proves what your saying? Not a scan a line.
 

salamander uchiha

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Let's go over your sequence of points

1) is fine

2) is fine

3) amado says they fought and just proposes a motive which I think your in agreement with

4) Yes he beats him where are you pulling that isshiki tried to take the fruit

5) where are you pulling from this she obtained the fruit after the fight

The status of the fruit in this is never explained we just know they came to earth to harvest it amado telling us the purpose they came not if chakra fruit existed at the time. Your assuming things that's not stated or even alluded to.

To stop circular arguement can you post a line that definitely proves what your saying? Not a scan a line.
It's not a circular argument.

4. They fought for whatever reason whether it was for the fruit or whatever. If they're fighting for it or whatever, that means the fruit is yet to be taken.

5. From 3 and 4.
 

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It's not a circular argument.

4. They fought for whatever reason whether it was for the fruit or whatever. If they're fighting for it or whatever, that means the fruit is yet to be taken.

5. From 3 and 4.
Assuming due to them fighting over it doesnt mean one doesnt have the fruit and again is amados speculation why they fought.

I think the crux of why you believe kaguya didnt eat it is because yu believe you cant extract back a god fruit which I'm not sure where your getting that from.

Again your assuming things not actually stated by those panels and partially misunderstanding what its saying mainly that you think they definitely fought over the fruit and from that assuming that means neither had it at that point.

But logically you really think kaguya is strong enough base form to beat him only logical thing is she ate it which matches up with the old lore.
 

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Assuming due to them fighting over it doesnt mean one doesnt have the fruit and again is amados speculation why they fought.

I think the crux of why you believe kaguya didnt eat it is because yu believe you cant extract back a god fruit which I'm not sure where your getting that from.

Again your assuming things not actually stated by those panels and partially misunderstanding what its saying mainly that you think they definitely fought over the fruit and from that assuming that means neither had it at that point.

But logically you really think kaguya is strong enough base form to beat him only logical thing is she ate it which matches up with the old lore.
It's not Amado's speculation. The confirmation is they fought for whatever reason, whether it be to acquire the fruit or whatever. He's confirming the fruit wasn't acquired at that point. The speculation is the exact reason.

It's not about extraction, however Ishiki hasn't shown the skills to covert people to fruits either.

Yes, logically Kaguya pre-fruit is strong enough to neg diff Ishiki and the panels pretty much give us that impression. You assume she isn't, which is illogical. There's nothing to support that claim. He has a shrinking power, which is useless against Kaguya, it was useless against Sasuke's dojutsu, so wouldn't help against Kaguya's Byakugan, so..
 

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It's not Amado's speculation. The confirmation is they fought for whatever reason, whether it be to acquire the fruit or whatever. He's confirming the fruit wasn't acquired at that point. The speculation is the exact reason.

It's not about extraction, however Ishiki hasn't shown the skills to covert people to fruits either.

Yes, logically Kaguya pre-fruit is strong enough to neg diff Ishiki and the panels pretty much give us that impression. You assume she isn't, which is illogical. There's nothing to support that claim. He has a shrinking power, which is useless against Kaguya, it was useless against Sasuke's dojutsu, so wouldn't help against Kaguya's Byakugan, so..
Uhh yes it is amados speculation he clearly speculating on motive why they fight. Also he never speaks on the status of the fruit all he says they come to earth to collect a chakra fruit and for whatever reason they fought.

How do you know kaguya pre fruit is strong enough to beat isshiki? This is a clear assumption on your part. Its illogical to think she wasnt strong enough and nothing supports that. I think you are assuming she would still have her strongest moveset without the fruit which is an assumption. Would she still have her reality warping? Would she still have ameno with what besides the rinnesharingan she only had a byakugan? Would she still have ash bones how do you know that instead it being from the juubi all kkg abilities come from the juubi? So where is the moveset which would beat isshiki your making assumptions I dont think I can convince you of this so we should just wait and see whose right.
 

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Uhh yes it is amados speculation he clearly speculating on motive why they fight. Also he never speaks on the status of the fruit all he says they come to earth to collect a chakra fruit and for whatever reason they fought.

How do you know kaguya pre fruit is strong enough to beat isshiki? This is a clear assumption on your part. Its illogical to think she wasnt strong enough and nothing supports that. I think you are assuming she would still have her strongest moveset without the fruit which is an assumption. Would she still have her reality warping? Would she still have ameno with what besides the rinnesharingan she only had a byakugan? Would she still have ash bones how do you know that instead it being from the juubi all kkg abilities come from the juubi? So where is the moveset which would beat isshiki your making assumptions I dont think I can convince you of this so we should just wait and see whose right.
Bruh, he speaks on the status of the fruit, when he says he doesn't know the reason or if it was for the fruit or whatever. The status of the fruit is pretty much there.

Who says it's illogical? His greatest skill is shrinking, how tf is that going to help him against Kaguya (it doesn't work on organic matter) fruit or no fruit? Quite simply the only power being Jyubi Jin gives is TSB power, and Rinne sharingan. We didn't see anybody who wasn't Kaguya use any of her powers as Jins, except TSBs (Jyubi power) and IT (Rinne sharingan power). If Ashbone was used on him he would become Doritos like Obito, so you haven't got much to go on. It is no different from her gentle fist, hair techs as far as I'm concerned. The only one being illogical here is you, I suppose that comes from overrating the fodder.
 

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Bruh, he speaks on the status of the fruit, when he says he doesn't know the reason or if it was for the fruit or whatever. The status of the fruit is pretty much there.

Who says it's illogical? His greatest skill is shrinking, how tf is that going to help him against Kaguya (it doesn't work on organic matter) fruit or no fruit? Quite simply the only power being Jyubi Jin gives is TSB power, and Rinne sharingan. We didn't see anybody who wasn't Kaguya use any of her powers as Jins, except TSBs (Jyubi power) and IT (Rinne sharingan power). If Ashbone was used on him he would become Doritos like Obito, so you haven't got much to go on. It is no different from her gentle fist, hair techs as far as I'm concerned. The only one being illogical here is you, I suppose that comes from overrating the fodder.
Where in his statement do you pull the status of the fruit.

You dont have to be a juubi jin to have TSB naruto wasnt ome and kaguya never showed tsb usage. And all kekkai genkai are obviously from the juubi where else would they come from. If kaguya has ashbone before the fruit it doesnt mean his death is imminent it's possible she was able to backstab him with his guard lowered so in that scenario she might not need the fruit but that assuming kaguya was able to successfully get the surprise attack shes safer off going after the fruit. Also why doesnt he kill kaguya after suffering a surprise attack also wouldnt his entire body and disintegrated from ashbone we just see half his body is severed not matching up to ashbones effect.
 

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Where in his statement do you pull the status of the fruit.

You dont have to be a juubi jin to have TSB naruto wasnt ome and kaguya never showed tsb usage. And all kekkai genkai are obviously from the juubi where else would they come from. If kaguya has ashbone before the fruit it doesnt mean his death is imminent it's possible she was able to backstab him with his guard lowered so in that scenario she might not need the fruit but that assuming kaguya was able to successfully get the surprise attack shes safer off going after the fruit. Also why doesnt he kill kaguya after suffering a surprise attack also wouldnt his entire body and disintegrated from ashbone we just see half his body is severed not matching up to ashbones effect.
The part where he mentions eanting the fruit to be amongst the possible reasons.

Yes, you do. Naruto was a Pseudo Jyubi Jin, he had the chakra of all the tailed beasts in him. Actually Kaguya did, she was going to use a mega one to make a new dimension. Obviously they don't, Kaguya had the Byakugan before becoming the Jyuubi Jin, so that argument is a non argument. And nowhere does it state all KKG originate from the Jyuubi. She didn't back stab him though. They had a full on battle where he was left on the verge of death with nearly no chakra. To the point he couldn't even form a Karma, which exhausted Momoshiki could (another piece of shit writing).

And we know how trash Kaguya's absorbiton is, so she wasn't absorbing his chakra.

Btw, I never said she used Ashbone, I said she couldn't have used Ashbone because he would become Doritos. Therefore it was a full on battle that left him like that.

The fact he couldn't fo anything to stop Kaguya, shows how badly he was stomped during their battle.
 

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The part where he mentions eanting the fruit to be amongst the possible reasons.

Yes, you do. Naruto was a Pseudo Jyubi Jin, he had the chakra of all the tailed beasts in him. Actually Kaguya did, she was going to use a mega one to make a new dimension. Obviously they don't, Kaguya had the Byakugan before becoming the Jyuubi Jin, so that argument is a non argument. And nowhere does it state all KKG originate from the Jyuubi. She didn't back stab him though. They had a full on battle where he was left on the verge of death with nearly no chakra. To the point he couldn't even form a Karma, which exhausted Momoshiki could (another piece of shit writing).

And we know how trash Kaguya's absorbiton is, so she wasn't absorbing his chakra.

Btw, I never said she used Ashbone, I said she couldn't have used Ashbone because he would become Doritos. Therefore it was a full on battle that left him like that.

The fact he couldn't fo anything to stop Kaguya, shows how badly he was stomped during their battle.
Again amado never speaks on status of the fruit all he says is he thinks the reason they fought is abhor the fruit nothing more you are trying to say its implied and not even implied.

Tsb is a rikudo sage mode technique madara got his sage mode from hashi so kaguya wouldnt naturally have access to it and it's not like she manipulated tsb she inadvertently was turned into one due to narutos attack. We know tsb is made from combining elements with sage mode and juubi chakra and that's what created the giant tsb.

Kaguya race been eating chakra fruit for along time so it's one they inherited along time ago and that's the only unique feature to them and you still didnt answer where the source is. You want to say no where it states kkg being from juubi but no where it states that tsb is a juubi ability. Rinnesharingan is classified as bloodline encompassing likely meaning access to all kekkai genkai. Maybe you could argue each kkg are latent abilities of peoples blood but than shouldnt everyone have a kkg than and onoki has an ability that's not a kkg.

Where you getting it was a full on fight it never says that only that she betrays him.
 

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Again amado never speaks on status of the fruit all he says is he thinks the reason they fought is abhor the fruit nothing more you are trying to say its implied and not even implied.
Again the words tell you it's fate wasn't decided at that time.

Tsb is a rikudo sage mode technique madara got his sage mode from hashi so kaguya wouldnt naturally have access to it and it's not like she manipulated tsb she inadvertently was turned into one due to narutos attack. We know tsb is made from combining elements with sage mode and juubi chakra and that's what created the giant tsb.
It's not an RSM skill, it's a skill that comes from the Jyubi. Obito also had TSBs, they came from the Jyubi. Madara's are the same as that, Hashi didn't give either of them the power. The last part isn't true, Kaguya made the TSB and was going to create a dimension space, that didn't come from Naruro rather her own power. You need to re-read the manga.

Kaguya race been eating chakra fruit for along time so it's one they inherited along time ago and that's the only unique feature to them and you still didnt answer where the source is. You want to say no where it states kkg being from juubi but no where it states that tsb is a juubi ability. Rinnesharingan is classified as bloodline encompassing likely meaning access to all kekkai genkai. Maybe you could argue each kkg are latent abilities of peoples blood but than shouldnt everyone have a kkg than and onoki has an ability that's not a kkg.
This argument is of no merit, we've seen people who eat pills made from the fruits they gain no new abilties. IT is also listed as bloodline encompassing that doesn't mean anything, certainly not what you're saying. Obito gained TSBs when he became a Jyubi jin, Madara did, Naruro did when he became a Pseudo Jyubi Jin, so yes it's from the Jyubi. Other KKG don't git the bill, they are clans own abilties.

Where you getting it was a full on fight it never says that only that she betrays him.
From the fact Prime Ishit lost half his body, was left with barely any chakra and on the verge of death. That's more than a betrayal, that's called a stomping. Outside of a fight that doesn't tend to happen, so..
 

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Again the words tell you it's fate wasn't decided at that time.



It's not an RSM skill, it's a skill that comes from the Jyubi. Obito also had TSBs, they came from the Jyubi. Madara's are the same as that, Hashi didn't give either of them the power. The last part isn't true, Kaguya made the TSB and was going to create a dimension space, that didn't come from Naruro rather her own power. You need to re-read the manga.



This argument is of no merit, we've seen people who eat pills made from the fruits they gain no new abilties. IT is also listed as bloodline encompassing that doesn't mean anything, certainly not what you're saying. Obito gained TSBs when he became a Jyubi jin, Madara did, Naruro did when he became a Pseudo Jyubi Jin, so yes it's from the Jyubi. Other KKG don't git the bill, they are clans own abilties.



From the fact Prime Ishit lost half his body, was left with barely any chakra and on the verge of death. That's more than a betrayal, that's called a stomping. Outside of a fight that doesn't tend to happen, so..
What's your proof tsb is from the juubi or are you inferring it. Also madara stole hashi chakra giving him access to sage mode and obito scale like rsm design implies he got sage mode from kabuto. Kaguya didnt willing create the tsb was made result of that attack and she didnt intend create new world.

Also each chakra fruit doesnt need give an ability and we see that all the bijuu except for kurama has unique elemental ability. What do you mean kkg clan own ability we know hagoromo gave chakra your saying they had kkg before that.
 

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What's your proof tsb is from the juubi or are you inferring it. Also madara stole hashi chakra giving him access to sage mode and obito scale like rsm design implies he got sage mode from kabuto. Kaguya didnt willing create the tsb was made result of that attack and she didnt intend create new world.
Now you're reaching sage mode doesn't give TSBs and neither does having Hashi chakra. Obito was never modified by Kabuto, neither was it implied or stated. The fact he became the Jyubi Jin and gained TSBs is proof enough they come with being Jyubi Jin. So yes they're a skill that comes from the Jyubi.

Also each chakra fruit doesnt need give an ability and we see that all the bijuu except for kurama has unique elemental ability. What do you mean kkg clan own ability we know hagoromo gave chakra your saying they had kkg before that.
Hogaromo never shared chakra with anybody in canon, except Ashura. People had certain genes that allowed certain KKG you could call it a plot hole or they could all be expansions of the original clans mixing with the bloodlines. However all of that is head canon.
 

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Now you're reaching sage mode doesn't give TSBs and neither does having Hashi chakra. Obito was never modified by Kabuto, neither was it implied or stated. The fact he became the Jyubi Jin and gained TSBs is proof enough they come with being Jyubi Jin. So yes they're a skill that comes from the Jyubi.



Hogaromo never shared chakra with anybody in canon, except Ashura. People had certain genes that allowed certain KKG you could call it a plot hole or they could all be expansions of the original clans mixing with the bloodlines. However all of that is head canon.
We know only in rsm mode can tsb unlocked you need sage mode to unlock rsm.

Pg 249 of the fourth databook says tsb is from rsm.


Looked it up couldnt find anything canon showing hagoromo passed chakra but that would just make kkg origin a mystery but again how do you explain bijuu having kkg abilities and even kaguya is they arent the origin even madara got storm release from being a juubi jin
 

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We know only in rsm mode can tsb unlocked you need sage mode to unlock rsm.

Pg 249 of the fourth databook says tsb is from rsm.

Yep, and what power do you think Jyubi Jins get (RSM). Obito got it, Madara got it, and Naruro got it, once Hogaromo gave the handout + Obito gave him the chakra he was missing (8 tails and 1 tails). He became a Pseudo JJ, which is why Madara said he has the same mode as me, while Sasuke has the same eye as me.

Looked it up couldnt find anything canon showing hagoromo passed chakra but that would just make kkg origin a mystery but again how do you explain bijuu having kkg abilities and even kaguya is they arent the origin even madara got storm release from being a juubi jin
No Hogaromo didn't so we don't need to discuss that and neither did Kaguya. Also there's no proof Madara gained storm release from the Jyubi. The Jyubi doesn't have storm release or grant abilties it doesn't have. The tailed beasts were made by Hogaromo with abilties, they're not KKG since they're not passed on via blood.
 

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Yep, and what power do you think Jyubi Jins get (RSM). Obito got it, Madara got it, and Naruro got it, once Hogaromo gave the handout + Obito gave him the chakra he was missing (8 tails and 1 tails). He became a Pseudo JJ, which is why Madara said he has the same mode as me, while Sasuke has the same eye as me.



No Hogaromo didn't so we don't need to discuss that and neither did Kaguya. Also there's no proof Madara gained storm release from the Jyubi. The Jyubi doesn't have storm release or grant abilties it doesn't have. The tailed beasts were made by Hogaromo with abilties, they're not KKG since they're not passed on via blood.
Lol bro being a juubi jin doesnt give you rsm for one it's literally in the name requires sage mode explained madara and obito obtained it it just gives the other half of rikudo chakra. And you said earlier rsm doesnt give tsb juubi chakra but now your arguing it's the same thing which hasnt shown be the case especially when kaguya is not actively in rsm mode or has its markings that distinguish it.

And if he didnt get storm release from being a juubi where did he get it from he he wasnt able to use it till he became a juubi jin. And also doesnt explain kaguya and hagoromo kkg feats I mentioned earlier.
 
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Lol bro being a juubi jin doesnt give you rsm for one it's literally in the name requires sage mode explained madara and obito obtained it it just gives the other half of rikudo chakra. And you said earlier rsm doesnt give tsb juubi chakra but now your arguing it's the same thing which hasnt shown be the case especially when kaguya is not actively in rsm mode or has its markings that distinguish it.
It's the same thing, Naruro has the chakra of 9 tailed beasts and he gets RSM with tailed beasts. Madara has their chakra and is Jyubi jin, he gains RSM with TSBs, Obito does the same and he didn't even have Sagemode when he gained RSM. You forgot one thing about the Jyubi it is nature energy, what is nature energy under control (sage mode), and since it's the Jyuubis it's Rokudo SM. The reason Kaguya can make TSBs unlike the others is because she is the Jyubi in humanoid form.

And if he didnt get storm release from being a juubi where did he get it from he he wasnt able to use it till he became a juubi jin. And also doesnt explain kaguya and hagoromo kkg feats I mentioned earlier.
Who said he wasn't? Just because he doesn't show jutsu doesn't mean he doesn't have them? He used Sage art: storm release, clearly he knew the skill before hand. I mean Madara didn't use many of the Rinnegan paths, does that mean he can't use them?
 
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