Why do they have the chunin exams so early

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
15,998
Kin
2,804💸
Kumi
3,592💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In the original series it was to show us other characters and villages, but apart from Temari/Shikamaru who can rationalise and possibly Sakura(has 3.5 in IQ) to some degree(not talkin about combat ability which is genin level), Shino's another who uses intellect and analysis, he also seems to have leadership qualities. Other than that none were worthy of becoming chunin.

It was just a plot point and done on the sensei's recommendation. It's also probably a safer way to expose the children to what is expected of them.
 

Bael

Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
20
Kin
35💸
Kumi
6💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
To gauge the general skill level or potential of the participants, it's true that it's used to expose the young ones to the shinobi world and train them for what's ahead of them. But if you think about it these are also potential hokage and anbu/elite jonin so it's also a way to see who's going to be the village next line of defense.
 

Naruto X Hunter

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
9,845
Kin
1,031💸
Kumi
567💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
In the original series it was to show us other characters and villages, but apart from Temari/Shikamaru who can rationalise and possibly Sakura(has 3.5 in IQ) to some degree(not talkin about combat ability which is genin level), Shino's another who uses intellect and analysis, he also seems to have leadership qualities. Other than that none were worthy of becoming chunin.

It was just a plot point and done on the sensei's recommendation. It's also probably a safer way to expose the children to what is expected of them.
Sasuke excelled in every stage of the exams.

In phase 1 he was amongst those to deduce the true purpose of the test, and successfully gathered information from one of the two Chunin informants placed amongst the Genin.

Pages 11-13.
16-17
2-5

In phase 2 he outsmarted Oboro and even Orochimaru multiple times - chapter 46 & 49. Right afterward, when Iruka was explaining the qualities of a Chunin, it was heavily implied that Sasuke was Chunin level as he possessed both Heaven and Earth qualities.

14-19

In phase 3, after Asuma, Izumo, & Kotetsu explained what's required of a Chunin, Genma directly stated that Sasuke was Chunin level.

9-11
 

HowDidIGetPrem

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
4,943
Kin
2,411💸
Kumi
526💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I don't even think the chuunin exams were that extreme. K11's exam featured Orochimaru's plants & the Sand Siblings, yet Gaara, Kankuro, and Neji seemed to be the only ones out of reach to the relatively ordinary k11 members. Experience doesn't look like it's all that big of a factor in Naruto when it comes to fodders. Kid Naruto, Sarada, and a whole number of others are portrayed as stomping out full grown adults on a daily basis. The bigger concerns during chuunin exams are probably bloodlines and other weird inheritances like Naruto's ghost and fox or Shinki's broken sand.
 

Sagebee

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Aug 13, 2016
Messages
18,931
Kin
1,647💸
Kumi
1,206💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Sasuke excelled in every stage of the exams.

In phase 1 he was amongst those to deduce the true purpose of the test, and successfully gathered information from one of the two Chunin informants placed amongst the Genin.

Pages 11-13.
16-17
2-5

In phase 2 he outsmarted Oboro and even Orochimaru multiple times - chapter 46 & 49. Right afterward, when Iruka was explaining the qualities of a Chunin, it was heavily implied that Sasuke was Chunin level as he possessed both Heaven and Earth qualities.

14-19

In phase 3, after Asuma, Izumo, & Kotetsu explained what's required of a Chunin, Genma directly stated that Sasuke was Chunin level.

9-11
Naruto without his kyuubi hack and not sure without kakashis training if they would get as far in the exam as they did so there oen starting skill level was no where near able to compete with the top talent. Sasuke with h in s own skill tho was able to fill the gap.
 

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
15,998
Kin
2,804💸
Kumi
3,592💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Sasuke excelled in every stage of the exams.

In phase 1 he was amongst those to deduce the true purpose of the test, and successfully gathered information from one of the two Chunin informants placed amongst the Genin.

Pages 11-13.
16-17
2-5
Even Kiba figured it out and he's not much smarter than Naruto. That's not good enough to become a chunin or squad leader.


In phase 2 he outsmarted Oboro and even Orochimaru multiple times - chapter 46 & 49. Right afterward, when Iruka was explaining the qualities of a Chunin, it was heavily implied that Sasuke was Chunin level as he possessed both Heaven and Earth qualities.

14-19
Orochimaru wasn't outsmarted he was testing the Uchiha talent, I don't know who Oboro is so I can't comment on him. Iruka didn't really meqn it like that he was talking about qualities a person needs, that in no way meant Sasuke had them at a level qhere he was worthy of being a chunin.

In phase 3, after Asuma, Izumo, & Kotetsu explained what's required of a Chunin, Genma directly stated that Sasuke was Chunin level.

9-11
If thay were true then Sasuke would've been made a chunin, just like Shikamaru. However, he wasn't because he only had the battle porwess at or above chunin level.

Being a Chunin isn't just about battle prowess, it's about calm analytical panning, preserving your teams safety, while ensuring mission success. Sasuke had a part of all just not at a level worthy of being a legitumate chunin.
 

Naruto X Hunter

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
9,845
Kin
1,031💸
Kumi
567💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Even Kiba figured it out and he's not much smarter than Naruto. That's not good enough to become a chunin or squad leader.
Regardless of how intelligent you think the charactere are, Sasuke passed the first stage having met the requirements that the upper ninja placed. THAT is what's important.

Orochimaru wasn't outsmarted he was testing the Uchiha talent,
You need to reread. Sasuke fooled him with the ninja poem password. After easedropping, Orochimaru tried disguising himself by transforming into Naruto, and reciting it. Little did he know, Sasuke created a lengthy password to fool transformed enemies into coming out in the open to recite it. Knowing there was no way the real Naruto would remember it. Afterward he outsmarted him with the Wire-Shuriken-Fire combo. Orochimaru was NOT acting surprised in his internal monologue.

I don't know who Oboro is so I can't comment on him.
I referenced and linked the chapter.

Iruka didn't really meqn it like that he was talking about qualities a person needs, that in no way meant Sasuke had them at a level qhere he was worthy of being a chunin.
He meant what i said. It's obvious through the dialogue & paneling like i explained. Based on the Oboro and Orochimaru points, you likely didn't even go back and check.

If thay were true then Sasuke would've been made a chunin, just like Shikamaru. However, he wasn't because he only had the battle porwess at or above chunin level.

Being a Chunin isn't just about battle prowess, it's about calm analytical panning, preserving your teams safety, while ensuring mission success. Sasuke had a part of all just not at a level worthy of being a legitumate chunin.
Drop the headcanon. Kishimoto had Jonin and Chunin observing the battles and giving their analysis and judgement on the participants. During this time a Chunin directly stated Sasuke was Chunin level. Like Iruka, providing no critique whatsoever. Sasuke being Chunin level combat wise is no surprise. Considering that earlier, he was already shown soloing the Demon Mist Brothers, who Kakashi said were Chunin. He could also use Fire style which is beyond Genin level.



He wasn't lacking physically prior to the exams, and he was never stated to lack mentally during. Rather, the opposite.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: salamander uchiha
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
184
Kin
754💸
Kumi
1,129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Regardless of how intelligent you think the charactere are, Sasuke passed the first stage having met the requirements that the upper ninja placed. THAT is what's important.
As did several others, in-fact everyone who didn't leave during Phase 1 passed the written exam.

You need to reread. Sasuke fooled him with the ninja poem password. After easedropping, Orochimaru tried disguising himself by transforming into Naruto, and reciting it. Little did he know, Sasuke created a lengthy password to fool transformed enemies into coming out in the open to recite it. Knowing there was no way the real Naruto would remember it. Afterward he outsmarted him with the Wire-Shuriken-Fire combo. Orochimaru was NOT acting surprised in his internal monologue.
I think you should take it within context of the story. It was less that Sasuke is smarter than Orochimaru and more so that Orochimaru thought Sasuke was just a dumb kid like everyone else. He underestimated him because he thought too highly of himself and he was surprised that Sasuke surpassed his expectations. He didn't think he was in danger at any point or that he was being played. If anything you can compare Orochimaru to a teacher who asks a student a question and is then surprised, not because the answer was correct, but because the teacher was wrong in his assessment of the student's abilities.

He meant what i said. It's obvious through the dialogue & paneling like i explained. Based on the Oboro and Orochimaru points, you likely didn't even go back and check.
Iruka explained that a Chunin is required to have both intelligence and strength to properly lead a team, which is what the test was for. He didn't mean that if you have both of those you are instantly a fitting Chunin, which is why the exam was in multiple tests and not just one. Sasuke fails at the same thing he did during academy, teamwork and relying on others.

Kishimoto had Jonin and Chunin observing the battles and giving their analysis and judgement on the participants. During this time a Chunin directly stated Sasuke was Chunin level. Like Iruka, providing no critique whatsoever.
In terms of battle prowess, yes. In terms of other criteria required of a Chunin, no. Sasuke lacked in teamwork and the ability to work with others. This is clearly shown during the Chunin Exam as well when he doesn't trust Naruto and Sakura to fight for themselves and even when Naruto proves that he is better fit to fight at he time, Sasuke refuses it. In terms of personality he doesn't fit the critera of a Chunin.

He could also use Fire style which is beyond Genin level.
To specify, Kakashi was surprised that a Genin could use a Fireball Technique, not Fire Style in general. He was surprised because this usually requires more chakra than an average Genin has. Which is understandable as Sasuke is an Uchiha and isn't exactly average in that regard.

He wasn't lacking physically prior to the exams, and he was never stated to lack mentally during. Rather, the opposite.
He was stated to lack mentally several times throughout Part 1, even back in his academy days as a kid. Sasuke never worked well with others and believed himself above them, he thought himself as superior and it hurt his ability to work with others. This is one of the reason why he was placed with Naruto. Because while Sasuke excelled at everything academically by himself, the one thing he failed at was the one thing Naruto excelled at, working with other people. This is an important criteria for a Shinobi of any rank, but its also an important criteria for advancement within the ranks.
 

Naruto X Hunter

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
9,845
Kin
1,031💸
Kumi
567💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
As did several others, in-fact everyone who didn't leave during Phase 1 passed the written exam.


Difference being we actually see that Sasuke was one of the people intelligent enough to deduce the true purpose of the test, and gain intel from a proper informant. He didn't get lucky like Naruto, Hinata, and some others.

I think you should take it within context of the story. It was less that Sasuke is smarter than Orochimaru and more so that Orochimaru thought Sasuke was just a dumb kid like everyone else. He underestimated him because he thought too highly of himself and he was surprised that Sasuke surpassed his expectations. He didn't think he was in danger at any point or that he was being played. If anything you can compare Orochimaru to a teacher who asks a student a question and is then surprised, not because the answer was correct, but because the teacher was wrong in his assessment of the student's abilities.
I did. Orochimaru specifically targetted Sasuke to test him, yet was completely fooled. Just because he didn't believe Sasuke would outsmart him doesn't mean he didn't put in any thought to deduce Sasuke's plans. He did and failed.

Iruka explained that a Chunin is required to have both intelligence and strength to properly lead a team, which is what the test was for. He didn't mean that if you have both of those you are instantly a fitting Chunin, which is why the exam was in multiple tests and not just one. Sasuke fails at the same thing he did during academy, teamwork and relying on others.
He learned the value of teamwork from Kakashi during the bell test and immediately applied it. Which is why Team 7 was even established. He then worked together with Naruto and Kakashi against Zabuza, with Naruto against Haku, and led Team 7 in the Forest of Death.

Nonetheless, you made a good point prior to the bold, but again, the explanation, paneling, and prior events made it clear Sasuke was Chunin level.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
184
Kin
754💸
Kumi
1,129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Difference being we actually see that Sasuke was one of the people intelligent enough to deduce the true purpose of the test, and gain intel from a proper informant. He didn't get lucky like Naruto, Hinata, and some others.


That is irrelevant in the context of the test. The test wasn't one of intellect, but one of comrade and guts. A shinobi shouldn't put their own life ahead of others and the mission. That was the purpose of the test and those that didn't put themselves ahead of the mission and had the guts to risk everything on a victory passed it.

I did. Orochimaru specifically targetted Sasuke to test him, yet was completely fooled. Just because he didn't believe Sasuke would outsmart him doesn't mean he didn't put in any thought to deduce Sasuke's plans. He did and failed.


And as I said, in the context of the story its a action between that of a teacher and a student where the teacher expects the student to be able to pass to be worthy of recognition, but the teacher never actually thought they would pass as they underestimated the student. Answering 5% of the question where as the teacher knows 100% of them doesn't mean you're smarter than them.

He learned the value of teamwork from Kakashi during the bell test and immediately applied it. Which is why Team 7 was even established. He then worked together with Naruto and Kakashi against Zabuza, with Naruto against Haku, and led Team 7 in the Forest of Death.
He learned the concepts of teamwork in a controlled environment, that doesn't mean he holds it in high regards or that he will actually use it when its needed. It only means that he knows how to use it and is capable of using it. He can understand that in some cases its needed. That being said, he doesn't like it and he tries to avoid it as much as possible. You brought up the Zabuza fight where Sasuke and Naruto works together. However they only do so on the request of Naruto and Sasuke isn't exactly pleased with it, but admits there is no other way.

That right there isn't him acknowledging teamwork, but admitting that his power isn't enough at the moment. Ironically he breaks what Kakashi thought him during the Zabuza arc too when he almost dies trying to save Naruto. During the Chunin Exam we see this yet again. He refused to work with Naruto and didn't even think to work with Sakura, treating her as she was beneath him constantly. In the end when the Sand attacked he went to face Gaara alone and refused help, but had to admit defeat when his body gave in. He had to pass out for him to even remotely think of accepting teamwork.

He then went on ahead to fight Itachi by himself without asking for help, much to Naruto's dismay. Then we have him leaving the village which was one big kick to the guts as far as teamwork is concerned. He wanted to defeat Itachi no matter what, but instead of following Kakashi's advice to stay on Konoha and get help from his friends, he went on ahead by himself. He entirely left behind the concept of teamwork. Then we have his formation of Hebi in order to locate Itachi, at this point we get to see that again he understand teamwork, he just don't prefer to use it.

We know this because he leaves them behind the instant they find Itachi. Again under the name of Taka he charges ahead and prefers to go by himself, only "allowing" the others to follow and fight with him as long as they don't get in the way. The instance someone got in the way, he left them buried alive and then finally stabbed one of them. Sasuke doesn't fundamentally understand teamwork until his fight with Naruto were he finally accepts it as a reality, a reality where he cannot do all by himself. That is his entire character arc summed up, his lack of trust in "teamwork". So you sitting here saying he had it all figured out straight out of the Academy is a massive middle finger to his entire character throughout the entirety of "Naruto".

but again, the explanation, paneling, and prior events made it clear Sasuke was Chunin level.
In terms of battle prowess? Yes. In terms of intellect? Yes. In the terms of guts? Yes. In terms of teamwork? No, not by a long shot.
 

Pulkit singh3

Active member
Regular
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
679
Kin
187💸
Kumi
126💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
In the original series it was to show us other characters and villages, but apart from Temari/Shikamaru who can rationalise and possibly Sakura(has 3.5 in IQ) to some degree(not talkin about combat ability which is genin level), Shino's another who uses intellect and analysis, he also seems to have leadership qualities. Other than that none were worthy of becoming chunin.

It was just a plot point and done on the sensei's recommendation. It's also probably a safer way to expose the children to what is expected of them.
Did you just put Sakura in one of the people who should've been chunin....She was weak af at that point...
 

Naruto X Hunter

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
9,845
Kin
1,031💸
Kumi
567💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
That is irrelevant in the context of the test. The test wasn't one of intellect, but one of comrade and guts. A shinobi shouldn't put their own life ahead of others and the mission. That was the purpose of the test and those that didn't put themselves ahead of the mission and had the guts to risk everything on a victory passed it.


It was about intellect, gathering correct information, and the stuff you mentioned.

And as I said, in the context of the story its a action between that of a teacher and a student where the teacher expects the student to be able to pass to be worthy of recognition, but the teacher never actually thought they would pass as they underestimated the student. Answering 5% of the question where as the teacher knows 100% of them doesn't mean you're smarter than them.
I never said he was smarter. I simply acknowledged that he outsmarted Orochimaru.

He learned the concepts of teamwork in a controlled environment, that doesn't mean he holds it in high regards or that he will actually use it when its needed. It only means that he knows how to use it and is capable of using it. He can understand that in some cases its needed. That being said, he doesn't like it and he tries to avoid it as much as possible. You brought up the Zabuza fight where Sasuke and Naruto works together. However they only do so on the request of Naruto and Sasuke isn't exactly pleased with it, but admits there is no other way.
He was all for teamwork. He never disagreed when Naruto requested his help. He was just surprised Naruto came up with a good plan.

That right there isn't him acknowledging teamwork, but admitting that his power isn't enough at the moment. Ironically he breaks what Kakashi thought him during the Zabuza arc too when he almost dies trying to save Naruto.
Naruto was unconscious....Sasuke combated Haku while protecting him. What teamwork can be had with an unconscious body? When Naruto first arrived Sasuke was glad thinking they could work together. He (himself) could fight from within while Naruto from the outside of the Ice Mirrors. When Naruto messed that up by going in Sasuke scolded him.

During the Chunin Exam we see this yet again. He refused to work with Naruto and didn't even think to work with Sakura, treating her as she was beneath him constantly. In the end when the Sand attacked he went to face Gaara alone and refused help, but had to admit defeat when his body gave in. He had to pass out for him to even remotely think of accepting teamwork.
What are you talking about? He led his team in the Forest. What he didn't want to do was fight Orochimaru because he knew he was out of their league. Against Gaara, Genma ordered him to hunt him down. By the time Naruto arrived Sasuke was out of commission. He never refused teamwork.

He then went on ahead to fight Itachi by himself without asking for help, much to Naruto's dismay. Then we have him leaving the village which was one big kick to the guts as far as teamwork is concerned. He wanted to defeat Itachi no matter what, but instead of following Kakashi's advice to stay on Konoha and get help from his friends, he went on ahead by himself. He entirely left behind the concept of teamwork.
I was speaking about during the Chunin exams. Not after. Nonethless, he left to warn Naruto that Itachi was after him. Not to fight. It just so happened that Itachi made it to Naruto right before he did. As for Kakashi, he didn't suggest that Sasuke work with comrades to achieve revenge, he directly told Sasuke to forget about revenge.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
184
Kin
754💸
Kumi
1,129💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
It was about intellect, gathering correct information, and the stuff you mentioned.


No, it was specifically about the guts to put your own safety on the line to finish the mission. The smart thing would be to retreat to fight another day, but that isn't the way of the Shinobi. The test was split in two, the first was to test each person's ability to spy and gather intel without getting noticed. This was the minor part of the test. The "real part" of the test as the teacher referred to it as was the final question, to gamble or leave. This final part was to figure out who were willing to put their future on the line for the sake of not only their teammates but their goals, winning the exam.

This was compared to that of a mission where a Chunin might be forced to do a mission they don't want to and are faced with an impossible choice, to leave behind their friends and mission or stay and gamble their life. That was the true purpose of the test, to figure out who would be willing to do that and who wouldn't. It was not a test of intelligence, it was a test of guts with a minor element of finesse.

I never said he was smarter. I simply acknowledged that he outsmarted Orochimaru.


That would imply that Orochimaru never thought it possible for someone to figure out the question and that he didn't have a backup in-case they did. He was well aware that there was an answer, he just didn't think Sasuke would figure out. He underestimated him greatly, and he had to resort to backup plans.

He was all for teamwork. He never disagreed when Naruto requested his help. He was just surprised Naruto came up with a good plan.


Fine, my memory of the exact time of certain events is a bit foggy. That being said, throughout the entire arc Sasuke was charging in alone, not waiting for his teammates or others to formulate a plan. That is hardly teamwork. While during the Chunin Exam he outright didn't want to believe that he needed help and that Naruto was on par with him. This notion was his entire reasoning for leaving Konoha and it became the one thing that separated him and Naruto. He left teamwork behind in favor of personal strength. Saying he had a fundamental preference and understanding of teamwork is like claiming Obito had it when he was in charge of the Akatsuki. They were using people, exploiting them and then throwing them away.

They didn't work together, he used their individual abilities from each other and even left them behind to die and almost killed one of them.

Naruto was unconscious....Sasuke combated Haku while protecting him. What teamwork can be had with an unconscious body? When Naruto first arrived Sasuke was glad thinking they could work together. He (himself) could fight from within while Naruto from the outside of the Ice Mirrors. When Naruto messed that up by going in Sasuke scolded him.


The entire situation was created from a lack of teamwork from both sides. Naruto didn't plan and Sasuke didn't share his plans. After Naruto came into the circle, Sasuke didn't try to formulate a plan like he did during the fights with Madara and Kaguya. He didn't have a fundamental understanding of relying on others yet. He believed he could handle it and it ended up him almost being dead. This is again appearent when he runs after Gaara later in the series and almost dies because he refuses help and has to do it by himself.

What are you talking about? He led his team in the Forest. What he didn't want to do was fight Orochimaru because he knew he was out of their league. Against Gaara, Genma ordered him to hunt him down. By the time Naruto arrived Sasuke was out of commission. He never refused teamwork.


He never considers Sakura's help and he constantly rushes in himself. This is also a pattern he keeps up until the War arc, as we see when he attacks Killer Bee with Taka. He says that they are welcome to fight, but only if they don't get in his way. Right after that he rushes in himself. He doesn't believe he needs the help, and would rather not talk about it when he is proven wrong.

I was speaking about during the Chunin exams. Not after. Nonethless, he left to warn Naruto that Itachi was after him. Not to fight. It just so happened that Itachi made it to Naruto right before he did. As for Kakashi, he didn't suggest that Sasuke work with comrades to achieve revenge, he directly told Sasuke to forget about revenge.
He did, and what happened when did get to Naruto? He rushed in by himself. Something he has done in almost every single fight he has been in. He did it against Kakashi in training, he did it against the two Mist Assassins, he did it against Zabuza and Haku, he did it against every opponent in the Chunin Exam and he did it after the Hidden Sand attacked. He did it against Deidara, he did it against Itachi, he did it against Killer Bee, he did it against the Gokage and so on. The only time we see him calm down and work together with someone from the get-go is with Itachi and in some rare instances with Naruto like in the first fight with Zabuza.

Kakashi also suggested to Sasuke that he should forget about revenge in favor of his friends and village he still had left, stating that revenge doesn't lead to anything. He picked his personal revenge over friends, which was Kakashi's main lesson about Teamwork during the bell test. When Naruto offers himself to help him during their final battle, Sasuke refuses again. He doesn't want to work together, he wants to do it himself. This is his entire fundamental character from start to finish, it is the entire reasons he finally accepts defeat to Naruto's ideals. He accepts that working together with Naruto and the rest of the world is better than trying to solve everything by himself like Itachi had done.

This is the fundamental "flaw" in his character that his entire character arc is all about. His ENTIRE character is written around his lack of wanting to work together with others. It is the one thing he scored the lowest at in the Academy when compared to the rest of his class. Its the one thing he constantly proves to the readers. That is his place in the story, that is his character arc. Implying that the character at the start of their arc had it "all worked out and was perfect at" is a spit in the face to his development and writing of the character. That's like saying that Suko in Avatar had it all figured out from the start because he wanted to be liked by the people important to him.

The point of Suko's arc was not that his goals changed, but the views on it. Likewise Sasuke had a goal to better the world, and he never gave up on that to this day, he just changed methods through character growth.
 
Top