Why did Kishi ever try to maje Naruto stop all wars?

LeSauce

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It was dumb from the start. They live in a world that relies on killing for their economy. Like who's idea was it for Naruto to fight against that?

All they did was make Naruto a failure, and make him fail his dream. Smh
 

Ansatsuken

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They have big cities and technologies. Means professional jobs are there bcus there exist industrial complex. Sure Kishi never expanding/covered this aspects but from where do you think all the expertise coming from?

You see Teuchi opening Ramen business for money so then he can use the money to buy the necessity, renovating his house, pay the bills etc. The money will go to business/industrial establishments, factory/manufacturer, Supermarket, Specialty retailer, Contractor/builder, Utility provider etc. I dont think Konoha and other nations already practicing Import/export yet. Means most of it are intra-trading

All this things are responsible to bring the money to Konoha for example.

This is not Fairy Tail where you need to do a mission and gain money for your Guild. Where is the logic when you think War mean earning Money? War is wasting more Money and not giving you more Money to support your entire country.

How old are you?
 
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SumnNarutoRelated

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It was dumb from the start. They live in a world that relies on killing for their economy. Like who's idea was it for Naruto to fight against that?

All they did was make Naruto a failure, and make him fail his dream. Smh
i agree. he wrote himself into a corner basically.

ninjas exist to kill or protect for money

naruto's goal contradicts this

???

No profit
 

LeSauce

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Tell me where it said something like that. Is that the meaning of Shinobi? Put manga scan about that fact.
I think it was Kakashi who said it back in part 1. I'm not entirely sure though. You can go look for it, because I'm certainly not going to try and find it again.
 

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Basic economics in the Narutoverse

Economics appears to be a somewhat poorly explored side of the Narutoverse. Aside from a few small and trivial details, the series never places much focus on it. Still, I decided to look at the canon material and see if I could find anything interesting. What I found was a problem that shows that the Narutoverse really makes very little sense when it comes to very basic economic matters—which might have been somewhat obvious given that it’s a shounen series.
N.B. Since there isn’t as much detail about all the villages as there is about Konoha, this post will be pretty Konoha-centric.

What we know

+The currency used in the Narutoverse is called the ryo. 1 ryo is equal to 10 Japanese yen. 1 yen is equal to 0.01 USD (a penny), so 1 ryo is equal to a dime. The fact that the ryo can be converted to the Japanese yen is very important because it means that the ryo can then be converted to any other fiat currency in the real world. In this case, I’ll be primarily focusing on the U.S. Dollar.

+The second fanbook gives a simplistic “x/5” rating to the economic strength of each great village. Interestingly, four of the five villages (Konohagakure, Sunagakure, Iwagakure, and Kirigakure) have a rating of 2/5. Kumogakure is the only great village that has more than that, as it stays completely unrivaled with an economic strength of 5/5.

+Just like economic strength, population is also given a simplistic “x/5” rating. From biggest to smallest: Konohagukure (5/5), Iwagakure (4/5), Kumogakure (3/5), Kirigakure (2/5), and Sunagakure (2/5).

D-rank missions pay between 5,000 to 50,000 ryo (i.e. between approximately 500 to 5,000 USD).
C-rank missions pay between 30,000 to 100,000 ryo (i.e. between approximately 3,000 to 10,000 USD).
B-rank missions pay between 80,000 to 200,000 ryo (i.e. between approximately 8,000 to 20,000 USD).
A-rank missions pay between 150,000 to 1,000,000 ryo (i.e. between approximately 15,000 to 100,000 USD). Quite a big jump compared to the other ranks, as you probably noticed.
S-rank missions pay 1,000,000 ryo and beyond (i.e. at least 100,000 USD).

+Each year in Konohagakure, out of all the children who go to the Ninja Academy, only 9 become genin. Genins go on D-rank and C-missions.

+There are ways to acquire money besides missions, such as teaching, writing, prostitution, etc.

What we don’t know

+We are never given an exact number for the economies of any of the villages.
+We are never given an exact number for the populations of any of the villages.
+We don’t know how many business days they have in a year.

The problem

From now on, I’ll only use dollars in order to better visualize this problem—but remember, the point still stands whether I use dollars or yen or ryo because we are given an actual exchange rate for the ryo.
Since genins (read: normal genins, not Naruto and Sasuke) only go on D-rank and C-rank missions, we can try and come up with the least gross annual income for a genin—that is, the smallest amount of money that the laziest genin procrastinator can make. Assuming that weekends work the same way in the Narutoverse, this gives us 261 business days in a year. Take away 11 days for holidays (I know I’m taking this straight out of my ass, but bear with me) and we’re left with 250 business days. Now, let’s suppose that a genin does nothing but the easiest D-rank missions and only does 1 D-rank mission in a day (although we’ve actually seen characters do multiple D-rank missions in a day, but let’s just go with the absolute minimum), and we’ll get the following number for their annual income: 125,000 dollars! That’s right, a genin can make 125,000 dollars a year and live off of nothing but D-rank missions where all he does is find pets and mow gardens. If you throw in a few more higher-paying D-rank missions and a few C-rank missions in there, the annual income can go well above 150,000 dollars. Now, you might say “but only 9 people become genin each year, so they’re just the rich 0.1%,” but you’d be wrong, because here is when things become truly absurd: every D-rank mission that any genin ever does can actually be finished by any able-bodied person, even if they aren’t ninjas. Manual labor? Finding pets? Weeding gardens? Every one of these pays a minimum of 500 dollars, and can be done by anyone. This leads me to 4 possibly logical conclusions, which, ordered from the least logical to the most logical, are:

a. People who aren’t genin (or aren’t even ninjas for that matter) are allowed to do D-rank missions, which would then mean that everyone in Konoha has at least an annual income of 125,000 dollars, which makes no sense whatsoever.

b. The law restricts people who aren’t ninjas to do any physical work. Because, if you think about it, what can be simpler than finding lost cats and weeding gardens (again, each of which pay a minimum of 500 dollars)?

c. Non-ninja people can do these simple jobs, but they are paid way less, which would then lead to the conclusion that Konoha is an oppressive society that practically treats non-ninjas like slaves.

d. Kishimoto had no clue what he was doing when he said that 1 ryo equals 10 yen.

As you can see, this entire absurdity rests upon the idea that 1 ryo is equal to 10 Japanese yen. If it were modified a little bit (e.g. if 1 ryo was instead equal to, say, 1 Japanese yen; or, even better, if the ryo didn’t have any real-world equivalency), then this problem would cease to exist. But the exchange rate is canon, and the absurdity remains true.

Unexplored ideas

+Here are two things I briefly thought of, but which I didn’t explore any further:
Often when you have a huge population and a small amount of money, social unrest and conflict is pretty much guaranteed. This greatly fits Konoha, in that it is relatively poor yet it also has the biggest population among all the villages. Could this be the reason why Konoha seems to have had more internal discord among its population compared to the other villages, or is it just because we don’t have enough information about the other villages? Or, is my entire premise false here?

+How possible is it to come up with a somewhat accurate number for the actual populations and economies of each village? At least for population, maybe one could look at zoomed out images of the village and make an estimate based on the area/number of houses/etc?
Found something in Raddit.

From my understanding the mission are not all about Killing people. Its like Fairy Tail mission. But not to say all the missions are without threat.
 

LeSauce

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Basic economics in the Narutoverse



Found something in Raddit.

From my understanding the mission are not all about Killing people. Its like Fairy Tail mission. But not to say all the missions are without threat.
It is amazing that some one put all this effort into it.

Let me try and find the scan I guess.
 

Ansatsuken

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And even without big war it doesn't mean the world is 100% at peace. Human will do evil thing no matter the time and anywhere. Country pay big time. I think the payment to Kakuzu if he can assassinate Hashirama sure very big.

Right now we have Kara. That can be a mission for someone/group to annihilate/arrest the organisation depend on the term and agreement.
 

LeSauce

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And even without big war it doesn't mean the world is 100% at peace. Human will do evil thing no matter the time and anywhere. Country pay big time. I think the payment to Kakuzu if he can assassinate Hashirama sure very big.

Right now we have Kara. That can be a mission for someone/group to annihilate/arrest the organisation depend on the term and agreement.


These are the closest I could get to it. It explains well though.

It seems like you're agreeing with me? I'm not sure. Anyway, D-rank missions would the ones you spoke of the last reply.
 

Ansatsuken

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These are the closest I could get to it. It explains well though.

It seems like you're agreeing with me? I'm not sure. Anyway, D-rank missions would the ones you spoke of the last reply.
I dont want to talk about agree or disagree here but let broaden our viewpoint.

With war or without war all this missions still can work. War is not a mission but a conflict cause by one or more countries. I dont think they pay you if you serve in the war bcus its not a mission in a sense. Its a duty for your country and not for you specific clients.

The country not just only sending D-Rank or S-Rank but they're sending the army of all Ranks to fight.

I dont have much energy to elaborate my idea in detail, I just copy and paste my previous comment and hope you understand

From my understanding the mission are not all about Killing people. Its like Fairy Tail mission. But not to say all the missions are without threat.

And even without big war it doesn't mean the world is 100% at peace. Human will do evil thing no matter the time and anywhere. Country pay big time. I think the payment to Kakuzu if he can assassinate Hashirama sure very big.

Right now we have Kara. That can be a mission for someone/group to annihilate/arrest the organisation depend on the term and agreement.
Perception on Missions


Depending on the importance and nature of the mission, as well as the regards of the village head, failure could result in variable consequences. While Shikamaru Nara failed to retrieve Sasuke Uchiha, the Fifth Hokage gave him words of comfort and support. On the other hand, when Sakumo Hatake botched a very important mission by choosing to rescue comrades over completing it, he was heavily dishonoured throughout his village and country, which eventually drove him to commit suicide. In Takigakure, failure of a mission brings very harsh consequences, as Kakuzu's failure to assassinate Hashirama Senju led to an unfair imprisonment despite the insurmountable danger involved, a treatment that led to his revolt. As such, certain villages put missions to a higher priority than others, as Sunagakure would choose accomplishing missions over the lives of their comrades, Iwagakure would follow orders even if it means death and Konohagakure's Shinobi Rules #4 states that "A shinobi must always put the mission first".

Because of the importance of missions, certain shinobi would take even the most drastic (sometimes considered illegal) actions to ensure its completion, even if it means sacrificing comrades, as Kisame Hoshigaki and Mizuki did. This may lead to certain controversies to the shinobi with their associated villages, depending on the situation. Kisame was simply following his superior's ideology and orders and was complimented even by the Fourth Mizukage for his willingness to make such sacrifices for Kirigakure. Mizuki, on the other hand, killed a slightly injured comrade simply to eliminate any potential hindrances, and falsified the reason of death, which led him to be ostracised based on the suspicious circumstances of this transgression.

If the client who hires ninjas for a mission gives false information on details, such as downplaying the dangers involved (which in turn becomes a mission that exceeds the expectations of its corresponding rank), the ninja in question will no longer be obligated to complete the mission (though they may continue if they choose).

Mercenary Ninjas accept missions from clients just as much as village-bound ninjas. However, these missions are considered more illegal, as they can involve assassination of people that are normally not meant to be targeted (such as Kisame Hoshigaki killing a daimyō), or creating acts of terrorism (such as Deidara becoming an insurgent bomber for anyone who would hire him). These missions are not ranked as they are not handed out by an official system. Clients may hire mercenaries instead of legal ninjas for shady businesses (such as Gatō) or cheaper prices (as Akatsuki offered).

The prices of missions can affect the client's decision on who to employ and how. Tazuna and Haruna downplayed their missions' details and dangers due to their inability to afford higher prices. Gatō hired Zabuza Momochi's group of renegades, who charge high prices, but would betray them with a large mob of less expensive mercenaries to prevent paying these excessive fees. Akatsuki intended to cause economic declines in shinobi countries by charging missions at much lower prices that villages cannot afford to. Even countries would hire services from foreign forces if it means saving a budget, as the Wind Daimyō outsourced many missions to Konohagakure over his own country's Sunagakure, and Ōnoki hiring Akatsuki many times for missions.
 
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LeSauce

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I dont want to talk about agree or disagree here but let broaden our viewpoint.

With war or without war all this missions still can work. War is not a mission but a conflict cause by one or more countries. I dont think they pay you if you serve in the war bcus its not a mission in a sense. Its a duty for your country and not for you specific clients.

The country not just only sending D-Rank or S-Rank but they're sending the army of all Ranks to fight.

I dont have much energy to elaborate my idea in detail, I just copy and paste my previous comment and hope you understand
I don't think you understand my point. Their system relies on killing others for profit, it's why they're trained to kill from childhood. D-rank and C-rank missions would be the only exceptions since they're for genin.

War or no war, Naruto was never going to remove that system because it would mean the end of shinobi, which he so deeply loves. Therefore, he was never going to achieve peace, he was never going to end the killing. The only thing he was going to do was fail.

I mean, that long quote does nothing but prove my point.
 

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I don't think you understand my point. Their system relies on killing others for profit, it's why they're trained to kill from childhood. D-rank and C-rank missions would be the only exceptions since they're for genin.

War or no war, Naruto was never going to remove that system because it would mean the end of shinobi, which he so deeply loves. Therefore, he was never going to achieve peace, he was never going to end the killing. The only thing he was going to do was fail.

I mean, that long quote does nothing but prove my point.
I understand your point very clearly. But here you think Without war Shinobi Mission will not/cant exist so Ninja economy will demise, its false. Point me where I deny killing for a mission? I said all mission are not about killing people and you said by yourself that Genin Missions will not involve killing. My point stand correct.



The long quote is to help support my idea and not you. The idea that without war mission still can happen be it the killing-type or non-killing type.

Plus the previous war was not a war between Nations but between Madara/Obito.

Edit: Naruto can try to stop a war from happen but he cant stop people from being evil,cruel,selfish,bad etc.

So the future mission is all about killing the bad one bcus they always exist, example Kara, Shojoji group. There will be mission to kill bad guy and there will be a mission to assassinating Good guy.
 
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9tailsJinchuuriki

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It was dumb from the start. They live in a world that relies on killing for their economy. Like who's idea was it for Naruto to fight against that?

All they did was make Naruto a failure, and make him fail his dream. Smh
Not all wars... People need to pay better attention, seriously.

He was only supposed to stop the wars between the Shinobi villages.

He did that already.

He brought all the Shinobi together and made them work together like the So6p wanted in the first place. Now they work together in order to deal with threats.

The whole series was based on conflict within the Shinobi system. Pain, Sasuke, Madara and Obito's goals were to bring peace to the Shinobi world by destroying the Shinobi system Or in Pain's case, using it to his advantage.

These new villains are just those outside the system or ones that are trying to destroy the peace, like in Kawaki's case.

Naruto already achieved his goal.

Also, it was pointed out many times that you can't do everything alone.

Hashirama told that to Madara and Naruto and Sasuke fought because of that reason.

Madara and Sasuke wanted to do everything by themselves, that's why they took the quick and aggressive approach, but Hashirama and Naruto wanted to work together and pass on their will to the next generation. That was what the will of fire was all about.

Now that Naruto had achieved his dream, it's time for the next generation to inherit his will and continue to maintain the peace that Naruto created.
 
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Ansatsuken

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Naruto not fail as Shinobi. The threat is there and he can order the best in class/rank Shinobis to hunt Kara for example and exterminate them and then they get a payment.

Asult Sasuke did a mission thats not involving a killing right? And he get paid for it. But he will kill someone if it necessary in his mission.
 

LeSauce

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Not all wars... People need to pay better attention, seriously.

He was only supposed to stop the wars between the Shinobi villages. He did that already.

He brought all the Shinobi together and made them work together like the So6p wanted in the first place. Now they work together in order to deal with threats.

The whole series was based on conflict within the Shinobi system. Pain, Sasuke, Madara and Obito's goals were to bring peace to the Shinobi world by destroying the Shinobi system Or in Pain's case, using it to his advantage.

These new villains are just those outside the system or ones that are trying to destroy the peace, like in Kawaki's case. Naruto already achieved his goal.
There is no peace, guy. They're ninjas, they're still out there going on missions and killing others. That's how they make their money.

Naruto bringing the villages together means diddly squat because people are still dying. If it was that easy all wars would have stopped as soon as Hashirama formed the village and gave away the bijuus.

Absolutely nothing changed in the shinobi system, which is my point. Nagato is going to happen again.
I understand your point very clearly. But here you think Without war Shinobi Mission will not/cant exist so Ninja economy will demise, its false. Point me where I deny killing for a mission? I said all mission are not about killing people and you said by yourself that Genin Missions will not involve killing. My point stand correct.



The long quote is to help support my idea and not you. The idea that without war mission still can happen be it the killing-type or non-killing type.

Plus the previous war was not a war between Nations but between Madara/Obito.

Edit: Naruto can try to stop a war from happen but he cant stop people from being evil,cruel,selfish,bad etc.

So the future mission is all about killing the bad one bcus they always exist, example Kara, Shojoji group. There will be mission to kill bad guy and there will be a mission to assassinating Good guy.
You don't understand. You think I'm talking about war specifically, although that was partly my fault since I put it in the title. I'm not, I'm talking about their system which relies on killing.

And it's not just the bad people killing, so don't make it seem like real life. Their job is to kill people, someone is always going to be on the losing side and end up hating someone else.

Naruto wanted to achieve peace and end hatred, well guess what? He did absolutely nothing to change what was wrong in the first place. Ending one war doesn't mean squat because their system will just lead to another down the line.
 

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There is no peace, guy. They're ninjas, they're still out there going on missions and killing others. That's how they make their money.

Naruto bringing the villages together means diddly squat because people are still dying. If it was that easy all wars would have stopped as soon as Hashirama formed the village and gave away the bijuus.

Absolutely nothing changed in the shinobi system, which is my point. Nagato is going to happen again.

You don't understand. You think I'm talking about war specifically, although that was partly my fault since I put it in the title. I'm not, I'm talking about their system which relies on killing.

And it's not just the bad people killing, so don't make it seem like real life. Their job is to kill people, someone is always going to be on the losing side and end up hating someone else.

Naruto wanted to achieve peace and end hatred, well guess what? He did absolutely nothing to change what was wrong in the first place. Ending one war doesn't mean squat because their system will just lead to another down the line.
So its your fault in wording your title/Thread opener and now you keep saying I dont understand your point.

Dude I only focusing on the subject of war here and not about killing.

So there is nothing to discuss here as the actually subject changed. But before I leave, Yes killing will always happen in NV be it from Shinobi missions or personal interest.

But Naruto only goal is to stop a war between nations and unite them and not exterminating all evilness bcus he know he cant stop that. Also ending the hatred between all Nations(Governments) and not individual hatred beside wanting to be a Hokage.

Without war or with war killing mission can still happen. So the economy of Shinobi mission can still pump out a money for the country.
 
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