Nobody should feel as a victim here, I guess. However, children do need a guide. They need someone to teach them or at least show them what is wrong and what is right(meaning, what is good and what is bad for life in society, before any hippie comes and says that it's relative).
And yes, our nature is flawed. Do you have full knowledge on our nature? Here it goes then.
Humans want more than survival. They want control. They want what is good for them, no matter the future consequences. They want what they think to be true, and anybody who enters their way will be destroyed.
Another thing is, our culture, not only our culture, but our nature seems to make us want to take control of everything in the way we think is better. Basically, even though humans have intelligence and knowledge, they can only think of what is good for themselves, ignoring every possible negative consequences for others or for the future.
Our nature is also related to war. It seems that most humans alwyas want to fight everything or everyone "in their way", everyone that doesn't agree or accept the way they do things.
Humans can't face different opinions, thoughts, ideas or behaviors. Whenever facing differences, humans will try to impose their ideas, their characteristics. If they're unable to do that, they'll try to eliminate the source of the difference. So, fights, wars, killing. In smaller scales, segregation and disrespect. It's also part of our nature.
This ius what we are. So yes, our nature is flawed.
That is not a flaw. That is our design. You seem to under the impression that we are supposed to be peaceful and logical organisms, but that is not the case. The characteristics that you described are important for natural selection and the evolution of our species, and almost everything else on Earth. Naturally, the strongest will survive. You spoke of war. You see in nature, where species create colonies and fight between themselves for survival - that is war.
The only reason why you think this way now, is because you have developed a more complex consciousness, unlike other species. But you cannot discard the animalistic traits that have been passed down of millions of generations because that is essential and defines us as humans.
You get rid of those characteristics of us, and you can say bye bye to the evolution of our species - naturally.
That is not a flaw. That is our design. You seem to under the impression that we are supposed to be peaceful and logical organisms, but that is not the case. The characteristics that you described are important for natural selection and the evolution of our species, and almost everything else on Earth. Naturally, the strongest will survive. You spoke of war. You see in nature, where species create colonies and fight between themselves for survival - that is war.
The only reason why you think this way now, is because you have developed a more complex consciousness, unlike other species. But you cannot discard the animalistic traits that have been passed down of millions of generations because that is essential and defines us as humans.
You get rid of those characteristics of us, and you can say bye bye to the evolution of our species - naturally.
Oh, these are flaws. You speak of natural selection, but do you know the main factor, the main characteristc that was selected? Intelligence. The smarter ones survived. That's why we're more evolved when it comes to our brain.
After that, we started to live in society. And that's, my friend, is when what I said becomes a flaw. Everything I mentioned is bad to life in society, it harm society and it's beings. So, it is a flaw.
There is nothing smart in war. The smarter way would be to overcome the problems without having to kill members of our own species. Natural selection means that the ones more adapted will survived. It does NOT mean that the "strongest" will destroy the weakest. This is not the meaning of natural selection.
The "weakest" will not be able to escape the predators, or gather it's food, or reproduce. That's natural selection. Darwin never said " the strongest mass murders the weakest".
Natural selection will always select the characteristic that is benefic for the survival of the species. All those characteristics I mentioned might lead us to complete destruction. How is that positive?
If you get rid of those characteristics and favor intelligence, we might have a change to save this world.
I don't respect teachers because teachers often demand my respect for no reason other then "i'm your teacher". and it's sad because they need to demand false respect from kids cause no one in real life gives them respect. 99% of my teachers abused their power over students, punished them for stupid reasons and denied them stuff you can get in prison. in prison you can go to the toilet at any time you want, and you don't need premission from anyone, you can eat whatever you want whenever you want, you can talk to whoever you want. why students are treated worse? same for a workplace, no one denies you toilet access in the work place. you don't get punished for being hungry during work time. no one cares if your cellphone rings and you answer it in work.
schools are a system to train kids to be good factory workers, they work exactly the same. everyone comes at the same hour, do their work, a ring bells you to go to launch or take a break, you come back to work some more, and everyone leaves when today's work is done. you have a problem? talk to your superior (teacher), you have a problem with her? no problem, thats why we have floor manager (schools have one too), a worker/student misbehaves? punish him, send him for a talk, or send him for the owner/principle for the most severe punishment.
hell, even the grading system. why was it invented? so that factory workers will get exact feedback. every factory worker has a monthly report with grades on his performance. every 3/6 months you get the big report with overall performance.
the reason kids break the teachers car window is because they are treated like z type citizens. imagine taking 40 adults, putting them in a confined building with gates and fences for 10 hours, telling them when to work, when to take a break, when to eat, when to pee, when they can leave and when they should come. then one of them is being punished for sleeping because he has to study late for upcoming tests and do papers.
school is hell, for everyone, teachers and students and counselors and principles. but kids are the target and buffer for all the hate because they are the weakest group. no one else is treated like that in any other place. not legaly.
Oh, these are flaws. You speak of natural selection, but do you know the main factor, the main characteristc that was selected? Intelligence. The smarter ones survived. That's why we're more evolved when it comes to our brain.
After that, we started to live in society. And that's, my friend, is when what I said becomes a flaw. Everything I mentioned is bad to life in society, it harm society and it's beings. So, it is a flaw.
There is nothing smart in war. The smarter way would be to overcome the problems without having to kill members of our own species. Natural selection means that the ones more adapted will survived. It does NOT mean that the "strongest" will destroy the weakest. This is not the meaning of natural selection.
The "weakest" will not be able to escape the predators, or gather it's food, or reproduce. That's natural selection. Darwin never said " the strongest mass murders the weakest".
Natural selection will always select the characteristic that is benefic for the survival of the species. All those characteristics I mentioned might lead us to complete destruction. How is that positive?
If you get rid of those characteristics and favor intelligence, we might have a change to save this world.
I don't respect teachers because teachers often demand my respect for no reason other then "i'm your teacher". and it's sad because they need to demand false respect from kids cause no one in real life gives them respect. 99% of my teachers abused their power over students, punished them for stupid reasons and denied them stuff you can get in prison. in prison you can go to the toilet at any time you want, and you don't need premission from anyone, you can eat whatever you want whenever you want, you can talk to whoever you want. why students are treated worse? same for a workplace, no one denies you toilet access in the work place. you don't get punished for being hungry during work time. no one cares if your cellphone rings and you answer it in work.
schools are a system to train kids to be good factory workers, they work exactly the same. everyone comes at the same hour, do their work, a ring bells you to go to launch or take a break, you come back to work some more, and everyone leaves when today's work is done. you have a problem? talk to your superior (teacher), you have a problem with her? no problem, thats why we have floor manager (schools have one too), a worker/student misbehaves? punish him, send him for a talk, or send him for the owner/principle for the most severe punishment.
hell, even the grading system. why was it invented? so that factory workers will get exact feedback. every factory worker has a monthly report with grades on his performance. every 3/6 months you get the big report with overall performance.
the reason kids break the teachers car window is because they are treated like z type citizens. imagine taking 40 adults, putting them in a confined building with gates and fences for 10 hours, telling them when to work, when to take a break, when to eat, when to pee, when they can leave and when they should come. then one of them is being punished for sleeping because he has to study late for upcoming tests and do papers.
school is hell, for everyone, teachers and students and counselors and principles. but kids are the target and buffer for all the hate because they are the weakest group. no one else is treated like that in any other place. not legaly.
1- The only point you got here is that there are teachers that punish students for no reason. That's the only things that's right. First, you must respect your teacher because he is a citizen, in the same way he can't disrespect you. Second, he is the authority for the momment. Because this way, you'll learn from childhood that you can't do whatever you want, you'll face rules which you'll have to respect if they're for better.
The thing of the bathroom, I agree. They should ask and go, not just in some ocasions. This is used, however, for better organization. If the kid go out everytime, he'll have changes to miss class and play arround. The cellphone is simple: it is momment of learning, and it would disturb it. However, I think that if there is a critical situation, students should be allowed to answer it. In jail(at least in here) they can't eat anytime. And you can't in school because it would be pain that someone speakin and you making noise eating.
2- That's not the point of school. That's only one. The main objectives are 2: To actually put you to learn about many subjects so you don't become a complete idiot, and to teach you how to be a citizen as well(though that starts in your house).
3- It's called organization. The rest is explained above. And if the 40 adults are not idiots, they'll manage to do it just fine. If they're polite and have learned to wait. That's how life is: you can't always do whatever you want to d, you won't always have what you want exactly at that time.
4- It's imporant, as I said. Though you people don't care, education is important. You're learning countless things about science in there, that's knowledge. Just read my sig. And as I said, in school, you'll learn to be organized, to follow rules, and to respect the authority. That's preparing one to be a respectufl citizen instead of a mindless douche.
1- The only point you got here is that there are teachers that punish students for no reason. That's the only things that's right. First, you must respect your teacher because he is a citizen, in the same way he can't disrespect you. Second, he is the authority for the momment. Because this way, you'll learn from childhood that you can't do whatever you want, you'll face rules which you'll have to respect if they're for better.
The thing of the bathroom, I agree. They should ask and go, not just in some ocasions. This is used, however, for better organization. If the kid go out everytime, he'll have changes to miss class and play arround. The cellphone is simple: it is momment of learning, and it would disturb it. However, I think that if there is a critical situation, students should be allowed to answer it. In jail(at least in here) they can't eat anytime. And you can't in school because it would be pain that someone speakin and you making noise eating.
2- That's not the point of school. That's only one. The main objectives are 2: To actually put you to learn about many subjects so you don't become a complete idiot, and to teach you how to be a citizen as well(though that starts in your house).
3- It's called organization. The rest is explained above. And if the 40 adults are not idiots, they'll manage to do it just fine. If they're polite and have learned to wait. That's how life is: you can't always do whatever you want to d, you won't always have what you want exactly at that time.
4- It's imporant, as I said. Though you people don't care, education is important. You're learning countless things about science in there, that's knowledge. Just read my sig. And as I said, in school, you'll learn to be organized, to follow rules, and to respect the authority. That's preparing one to be a respectufl citizen instead of a mindless douche.
that was maybe the intention. or the excuse made up after the fact. but schools achieve none of what you described. maybe they're soppused to, but they fail miserably.
1. i don't think you ever saw a teacher scream at a student for failing an exam. and punishing the entire class because one student didn't do his homework. my teachers did nothing to earn that respect, they didn't treated me or any other students like citizens. we were factory workers. so yeah, i learned to fake respect for my teacher. cause otherwise i would get punished. i just agree with every crap she's saying and keep my distance. i still spit every time i go near her house. respect goes both ways, and authority shouldn't abuse it's power. teachers only get "respect" out of fear of punishment or failing the class. much like how dictators get respect and power out of the fear of citizens.
2. well then fail and fail, our brain is built in a way that it tries to push away and block every information it doesn't want to know. the most ineffective way to learn is to force knowledge into you. sure it can work, but it will be exauhsting and slow. they did a test in my country where they gave the final exams of high school students to high school teachers. the avarage teacher score was 10 points lower then the avarage student score. and no adult today actully remembers all his high school study material. adults would actully do worse.
and how to behave as a citizen, please, all the kids learn is how much they hate authority system and chain of command. and behold, adults again do none of what they did as kids. they don't stand everytime "authority" comes in. they don't gather every morning to sing the anthem. adults do none of the good citizenship they were though in schools.
3. ofcourse not, excpet that every 40yo adults today get to do that. why adults "respect" their bosses? do you stand everytime your boss comes to check on you? do you close your phone not to disturb your coworkers? i know someone who went to prison, and he told me on how they wake you up at like 5 in the morning, make you stand up to check that you are ok. and leave you to go back to sleep and then you wake up at 11 in the morning. so sure, you still need to wake up for work like the rest of us. but you don't need to ask permission to ****ing ask a question.
4.i learned more out of reading books i choose myself then i ever learned in school. i learned english (not my native language) out of watching english television shows, not in school. i learned math and physics by reading history books and subjects i was interested in. not crunching for tests. you don't learn in school to be smart and knowledgeable. you learn in school to get a high mark on your exam regardless if you really understand or not. in china they have special after school private teachers that teach them spesificly how to get high scroes in tests. your sig, "knowledege is the true power". i don't feel powerfull having went to school, i feel like an idiot. i've been having a lot of fun watching recorded university lectures on the internet and reading books and i'm angry i didn't start doing that at a younger age because i was so afraid and unmotivated to learn anything.
i still maintain that schools only produce factory workers, they don't make powerful people. they make weak agreeing people that are good at following orders and not asking questions.
that was maybe the intention. or the excuse made up after the fact. but schools achieve none of what you described. maybe they're soppused to, but they fail miserably.
1. i don't think you ever saw a teacher scream at a student for failing an exam. and punishing the entire class because one student didn't do his homework. my teachers did nothing to earn that respect, they didn't treated me or any other students like citizens. we were factory workers. so yeah, i learned to fake respect for my teacher. cause otherwise i would get punished. i just agree with every crap she's saying and keep my distance. i still spit every time i go near her house. respect goes both ways, and authority shouldn't abuse it's power. teachers only get "respect" out of fear of punishment or failing the class. much like how dictators get respect and power out of the fear of citizens.
2. well then fail and fail, our brain is built in a way that it tries to push away and block every information it doesn't want to know. the most ineffective way to learn is to force knowledge into you. sure it can work, but it will be exauhsting and slow. they did a test in my country where they gave the final exams of high school students to high school teachers. the avarage teacher score was 10 points lower then the avarage student score. and no adult today actully remembers all his high school study material. adults would actully do worse.
and how to behave as a citizen, please, all the kids learn is how much they hate authority system and chain of command. and behold, adults again do none of what they did as kids. they don't stand everytime "authority" comes in. they don't gather every morning to sing the anthem. adults do none of the good citizenship they were though in schools.
3. ofcourse not, excpet that every 40yo adults today get to do that. why adults "respect" their bosses? do you stand everytime your boss comes to check on you? do you close your phone not to disturb your coworkers? i know someone who went to prison, and he told me on how they wake you up at like 5 in the morning, make you stand up to check that you are ok. and leave you to go back to sleep and then you wake up at 11 in the morning. so sure, you still need to wake up for work like the rest of us. but you don't need to ask permission to ****ing ask a question.
4.i learned more out of reading books i choose myself then i ever learned in school. i learned english (not my native language) out of watching english television shows, not in school. i learned math and physics by reading history books and subjects i was interested in. not crunching for tests. you don't learn in school to be smart and knowledgeable. you learn in school to get a high mark on your exam regardless if you really understand or not. in china they have special after school private teachers that teach them spesificly how to get high scroes in tests. your sig, "knowledege is the true power". i don't feel powerfull having went to school, i feel like an idiot. i've been having a lot of fun watching recorded university lectures on the internet and reading books and i'm angry i didn't start doing that at a younger age because i was so afraid and unmotivated to learn anything.
i still maintain that schools only produce factory workers, they don't make powerful people. they make weak agreeing people that are good at following orders and not asking questions.
1- Pretty sure I made myself clear when I said that they should not abuse from their power. However, there are still many good teachers. And nevertheless, they're still citizens. You don't correct a mistake with another mistake. If he is wrong, you try to reason with him. If that don't work, you acept for the momment, but if you're smart, you'll know you were right, and that's what counts.
2- That's my friend, is your fault. It's our current culture's fault. even though we're the species that have the greater "inteligence", managing to get the most developed brain in the world, the current culture praises stupidity. You've probably seen a lot of people saying "f*ck school, f*ck learning, yeah, intelligent people are nerds, f*ck nerds" and etc. So, people want to ignore all the knowledge we've been gathering through all the years our species's been on earth. I call this "the culture of stupidity".
The brain will have problem understanding and remembering stuff if YOU don't care about it. It's because YOU ignore knowledge's importance.
2,5- And that's when you ask yourself: Would things be better if they followed what they learned? You might not want to see it, but school is important to teach all those things to the students, even if indirectly.
The problem is not school, the problem is with people that can't follow rules, even though they should. Criminals are people who don't follow laws, and laws are rules. Things could be better if we actually followed them when they're positive to life in society.
3- There are different rules for every situation. The enviroment of the work and of school are completely different from each other. School is a momment of learning, and having those intense noises from cell phones is really a pain in the ass.
As I said earlier, with our culture, studens will miss class any chance they got. That's why there are different rules.
Star missing your job, talking on the phone all the time, start do do nothing. The boss might not even bother you. He might easily fire you.
4- Again, the problem is within you. You might have wanted ro read, but there are countless others that didn't want to learn at all. Cut off school, and we'll have a generation of complete useless idiots. You didn't learn in school because you didn't want to. Honestly, I never cared too much about my grades, though they're high. My mother's friend always gave him the advice: what matters is not the grade, but if you understood it. I study for tests, but I also study to learn, to gather knowledge. If it wasn't our culture I explained above, people would actually like to learn, and information would be learned easier.
Yes, they do make powerful people. People that actually cared, people that actually wanted to learn. Your house, do you think it was planned by people who wanted to miss school? The countless technologies and scientific progress we gathered, don't you think it's powerful? Well, guess what? All was made by people who learned.
School has flaws, of course. After all, it's runned by humans. However, it's the best we got to develop citizens and capacitated workers, such as engineers, doctors etc. Nobody sais that you can't question. You question all the time. In philosophy and sociology, you learn to question. Good teachers will influence you to question, to discuss.
The bigger problem is not with school, it's with studens that don't care.
1.well they do, i had thery few good teachers in my life but i can assure you not only i respected them, i also learned better and was more interested because it wasn't forced on me. my best teacher didn't only care about homeworks and exams, he didn't believe in punishment but in reward. he used to give candy and stuff if you managed to get a high enough score (we were kids lol). and we were all waiting everyday for his class. it never happened with other teachers.
2 and 2.5: we don't praise stupidity and we didn't hate learning when we were born. schools do a great job at crushing every shred of wanting to learn we might had as little kids. homework and exams and papers and all the other devious tools they use to make sure the knowledge enters our brain in the most intrusive way and make us hate knowledge. if this culture doesn't like to learn and praises stupidity, "the culture of stupidity" as you called it. then it's because schools did nothing to make us feel different. from hungry for knowledege kids we were grown to tired of knowledge teens.
3. work is diffrent, and ofcourse it has ground rules that if you break you will get shouted at or fired for. but those rules are reasonable. in work if your phone rings you just pick it up, go to a hallway or something and talk for a couple of minutes, then come back and continue your work. you can also do that in collage or university. buy highschool? sometimes you're not even allowed to bring cellphones. i'm sorry but schools just seem to suppress students with stupid reasons they didn't even think over.
4. as i said, our culture is a direct result of how hard and unforgiving it was to learn in schools. every kid has something he likes, just becase it's not one of the "importent" subjects doesn't mean he doesn't have a future. frankly you can see people learn math and economics on their own to support the subject they really like. and when they do it for the purpose they choose themselves it goes much faster and much more easier. they accept the knowledge gladly and work hard with a real smile because they know it will enhence their main subject. schools just put incoherent information in your brain that you should "know", but not "why" you should know. and don't understand why they need to do a reharse of last years material at the start of every year.
i didn't say don't learn, i said don't learn in schools. cause you don't learn in schools anything. my house was built by a carpenter, who choose it as his main subject. he probably also learned math and physics, to make his carpenting better. school didn't make him a better carpenter, he probably had to learn most of it on his own or from other carpenters because school didn't think his choice in study material was right.
students don't care because school don't allow them to question, schools have been around a couple of hundred years, every invention before that was made by people who learned without a system and most inventions after were made by people who got thrown out of schools. michael faraday is one of the most importent people do affect modern electricity and he did it with zero math knowledge. thomas edison did experiments on his own at his home, not at school. einstein ofcourse got kicked out of school at 16 and don't let me show you his horrible grades. recently a biology (was it biology?) noble prise winner showed the only thing he ever framed, a report from his high school biology teacher saying his unwillingness to learn anything and his boredom at basic subjects will destroy his carrer in biology, and that he will never amount to anything.
edit: i wrote a hell lot of things, but this video by a phd professor working on string theory sums it up well.
schools are flawed, and no one is doing anything to change that. our socitey will stay exactly as it is today because people are afraid to change the foundation of how citizens and scientists and the work force is created. schools are the hell from which stagnation is spawned.
I don't respect teachers because teachers often demand my respect for no reason other then "i'm your teacher". and it's sad because they need to demand false respect from kids cause no one in real life gives them respect. 99% of my teachers abused their power over students, punished them for stupid reasons and denied them stuff you can get in prison. in prison you can go to the toilet at any time you want, and you don't need premission from anyone, you can eat whatever you want whenever you want, you can talk to whoever you want. why students are treated worse? same for a workplace, no one denies you toilet access in the work place. you don't get punished for being hungry during work time. no one cares if your cellphone rings and you answer it in work.
schools are a system to train kids to be good factory workers, they work exactly the same. everyone comes at the same hour, do their work, a ring bells you to go to launch or take a break, you come back to work some more, and everyone leaves when today's work is done. you have a problem? talk to your superior (teacher), you have a problem with her? no problem, thats why we have floor manager (schools have one too), a worker/student misbehaves? punish him, send him for a talk, or send him for the owner/principle for the most severe punishment.
hell, even the grading system. why was it invented? so that factory workers will get exact feedback. every factory worker has a monthly report with grades on his performance. every 3/6 months you get the big report with overall performance.
the reason kids break the teachers car window is because they are treated like z type citizens. imagine taking 40 adults, putting them in a confined building with gates and fences for 10 hours, telling them when to work, when to take a break, when to eat, when to pee, when they can leave and when they should come. then one of them is being punished for sleeping because he has to study late for upcoming tests and do papers.
school is hell, for everyone, teachers and students and counselors and principles. but kids are the target and buffer for all the hate because they are the weakest group. no one else is treated like that in any other place. not legaly.
1.well they do, i had thery few good teachers in my life but i can assure you not only i respected them, i also learned better and was more interested because it wasn't forced on me. my best teacher didn't only care about homeworks and exams, he didn't believe in punishment but in reward. he used to give candy and stuff if you managed to get a high enough score (we were kids lol). and we were all waiting everyday for his class. it never happened with other teachers.
2 and 2.5: we don't praise stupidity and we didn't hate learning when we were born. schools do a great job at crushing every shred of wanting to learn we might had as little kids. homework and exams and papers and all the other devious tools they use to make sure the knowledge enters our brain in the most intrusive way and make us hate knowledge. if this culture doesn't like to learn and praises stupidity, "the culture of stupidity" as you called it. then it's because schools did nothing to make us feel different. from hungry for knowledege kids we were grown to tired of knowledge teens.
3. work is diffrent, and ofcourse it has ground rules that if you break you will get shouted at or fired for. but those rules are reasonable. in work if your phone rings you just pick it up, go to a hallway or something and talk for a couple of minutes, then come back and continue your work. you can also do that in collage or university. buy highschool? sometimes you're not even allowed to bring cellphones. i'm sorry but schools just seem to suppress students with stupid reasons they didn't even think over.
4. as i said, our culture is a direct result of how hard and unforgiving it was to learn in schools. every kid has something he likes, just becase it's not one of the "importent" subjects doesn't mean he doesn't have a future. frankly you can see people learn math and economics on their own to support the subject they really like. and when they do it for the purpose they choose themselves it goes much faster and much more easier. they accept the knowledge gladly and work hard with a real smile because they know it will enhence their main subject. schools just put incoherent information in your brain that you should "know", but not "why" you should know. and don't understand why they need to do a reharse of last years material at the start of every year.
i didn't say don't learn, i said don't learn in schools. cause you don't learn in schools anything. my house was built by a carpenter, who choose it as his main subject. he probably also learned math and physics, to make his carpenting better. school didn't make him a better carpenter, he probably had to learn most of it on his own or from other carpenters because school didn't think his choice in study material was right.
students don't care because school don't allow them to question, schools have been around a couple of hundred years, every invention before that was made by people who learned without a system and most inventions after were made by people who got thrown out of schools. michael faraday is one of the most importent people do affect modern electricity and he did it with zero math knowledge. thomas edison did experiments on his own at his home, not at school. einstein ofcourse got kicked out of school at 16 and don't let me show you his horrible grades. recently a biology (was it biology?) noble prise winner showed the only thing he ever framed, a report from his high school biology teacher saying his unwillingness to learn anything and his boredom at basic subjects will destroy his carrer in biology, and that he will never amount to anything.
edit: i wrote a hell lot of things, but this video by a phd professor working on string theory sums it up well.
schools are flawed, and no one is doing anything to change that. our socitey will stay exactly as it is today because people are afraid to change the foundation of how citizens and scientists and the work force is created. schools are the hell from which stagnation is spawned.
1- Nice. I have really nice and funny teachers that uses these characteristics to develop a better way to teach.
2- I don't know where you live, but things have been like this for quite sometime. School is not what made studens hate learning. I've seen kids that barely entered school saying that nerds are sh*t. Homeworks and assignements are made for you to train your skills, what you've learned, and to teach you responsibility. Tests are made in order to see if you can apply your knowledge and skill under different circustances. They're necessary.
But you might be correct about schools not doing anything to change this, they should find ways to make people want to learn. But there are some teachers that do this already.
I don't know where you've seen kids "hungry for knowledge", because all I've seen is kids saying that school are for nerd losers and that soccer is what's cool(yeah, I live in brazil, obviously)
3- And now, what if your phone rings outloud in the middle of an important meeting? Or in the movies, where it can't ring? These are situations in which you can't let your phone ring and maybe not even answer them.
These rules are made so that you can learn to respect something more restrict. After that, the rest will be easy. After all, there are many more conditions in the law.
And the other reason about the phone I already explained in previous posts
4- This culture is the result of people who think that way even before entering school. A though shared by many that wished they just could stay home and do nothing. No obrigations. Lazy and irresponsible people. It's about time we actually acknowledge our faults instead of trying to blame anything else.
Incoherent information? No. Scientific informations and discoveries about our universe and reality. You need to learn them because it's the basic for you to understand a little bit about life and it's sciences. It's interesting, it's nice.
5- Don't learn in school you say? Then learn by ourselves? You know what you'll happen? We'll have a generation of idiots. Nobody wants to give up on funnier things in order to stop and study. Most people don't. And don't forget about the exemple of life you learn at school, such as responsibilities, rules, the stuff I mentioned before. Not to mentione the amount of stuff useful for politics and important social discussions you learn in history classes, sociology and pilosophy.
But I can give you quite the evidence. Here, in my country, many public schools are shit. Studens have more freedom, way more freedom in some schools, reaching the point in which they can say ANYTHING to the teacher, and do anything they want in class. Following your logic, they should like to learn, like to pay attention, etc. That doesn't happen. What happens is kind of chaotic. Google a little bit about brazilian education and the average brazilian. Dumb and useless people. Most of the population.
6- You're allowed to question, to have doubts, to make suggestions, At least in here where I study. Some teachers ask what would we want to see first, some ask us if we want to solve the doubts before moving foward. i got a teacher that even makes this jokes: "so, is everything ok?" then everybody shakes their head, then he says" yeah, you all just shake your heads life lizards, lol, c'mon guys, if you didn't get it, ask it, I'm here for that". Funny guy.
7- Faraday did what? I've never heard of that, though I've studied his laws, but it's impossible to do that without math knowledge. How would he even create equations without knowledge?
I'm pretty sure edison wouldn't t have achieved anything without learning in school.
Funny you mention Einstein. His grandes were lower in other subjects, indeed. But his grades were always top 1 when it was about math and physics. Not only that, but his works were only devoped after he entered college and graduated(I made a complete assignment about his life, last year.
The biology guy, teacher's failure indeed. Now go get the %, please. Let's see if that's a rule.
You forgot newton, that evolved physics of his time, and then, when limited by the math of his time, he evolved it as well. Or darwin. Or many other scientists who probably would've known nothing without school.
8- They might have flaws, but they have qualities as well. Schools changed a lot in the past years, and they might evolve again. Sometimes, it's better to keep the current foundation, as what might happen is something many times worse becoming the new foundation.
Schools are the paradise from which citizens and smart people with knowledge about society are spawned.
1- Nice. I have really nice and funny teachers that uses these characteristics to develop a better way to teach.
2- I don't know where you live, but things have been like this for quite sometime. School is not what made studens hate learning. I've seen kids that barely entered school saying that nerds are sh*t. Homeworks and assignements are made for you to train your skills, what you've learned, and to teach you responsibility. Tests are made in order to see if you can apply your knowledge and skill under different circustances. They're necessary.
But you might be correct about schools not doing anything to change this, they should find ways to make people want to learn. But there are some teachers that do this already.
I don't know where you've seen kids "hungry for knowledge", because all I've seen is kids saying that school are for nerd losers and that soccer is what's cool(yeah, I live in brazil, obviously)
3- And now, what if your phone rings outloud in the middle of an important meeting? Or in the movies, where it can't ring? These are situations in which you can't let your phone ring and maybe not even answer them.
These rules are made so that you can learn to respect something more restrict. After that, the rest will be easy. After all, there are many more conditions in the law.
And the other reason about the phone I already explained in previous posts
4- This culture is the result of people who think that way even before entering school. A though shared by many that wished they just could stay home and do nothing. No obrigations. Lazy and irresponsible people. It's about time we actually acknowledge our faults instead of trying to blame anything else.
Incoherent information? No. Scientific informations and discoveries about our universe and reality. You need to learn them because it's the basic for you to understand a little bit about life and it's sciences. It's interesting, it's nice.
5- Don't learn in school you say? Then learn by ourselves? You know what you'll happen? We'll have a generation of idiots. Nobody wants to give up on funnier things in order to stop and study. Most people don't. And don't forget about the exemple of life you learn at school, such as responsibilities, rules, the stuff I mentioned before. Not to mentione the amount of stuff useful for politics and important social discussions you learn in history classes, sociology and pilosophy.
But I can give you quite the evidence. Here, in my country, many public schools are shit. Studens have more freedom, way more freedom in some schools, reaching the point in which they can say ANYTHING to the teacher, and do anything they want in class. Following your logic, they should like to learn, like to pay attention, etc. That doesn't happen. What happens is kind of chaotic. Google a little bit about brazilian education and the average brazilian. Dumb and useless people. Most of the population.
6- You're allowed to question, to have doubts, to make suggestions, At least in here where I study. Some teachers ask what would we want to see first, some ask us if we want to solve the doubts before moving foward. i got a teacher that even makes this jokes: "so, is everything ok?" then everybody shakes their head, then he says" yeah, you all just shake your heads life lizards, lol, c'mon guys, if you didn't get it, ask it, I'm here for that". Funny guy.
7- Faraday did what? I've never heard of that, though I've studied his laws, but it's impossible to do that without math knowledge. How would he even create equations without knowledge?
I'm pretty sure edison wouldn't t have achieved anything without learning in school.
Funny you mention Einstein. His grandes were lower in other subjects, indeed. But his grades were always top 1 when it was about math and physics. Not only that, but his works were only devoped after he entered college and graduated(I made a complete assignment about his life, last year.
The biology guy, teacher's failure indeed. Now go get the %, please. Let's see if that's a rule.
You forgot newton, that evolved physics of his time, and then, when limited by the math of his time, he evolved it as well. Or darwin. Or many other scientists who probably would've known nothing without school.
8- They might have flaws, but they have qualities as well. Schools changed a lot in the past years, and they might evolve again. Sometimes, it's better to keep the current foundation, as what might happen is something many times worse becoming the new foundation.
Schools are the paradise from which citizens and smart people with knowledge about society are spawned.
1. i've seen to few of those. and i think it's because teachers get minimum wage (even in high school).
2. kids in ages 5-7 are extremly hungry for knowledge, they always ask questions, they always try to learn things and are interested in stuff. but then they enter one year of school and after that it's soccer or video games. why? because schools is not fun, so they think that learning is not fun and knowledge is not fun and understanding is not fun. you might say "life isn't fun, work isn't fun, achivements are not fun". but i'm sure einstein, newton, faraday and other importent people had lots of fun while doing their work. if you don't have fun, you will do a lousy job. and thats why we have more cubicle workers that work for a raise then scientists.
3. the goal is right, people should have respect for others and for authority. but they don't and schools are in my opinion the reason. you probably saw kids try and use the phone in hiding, using wireless ear plugs to listen to music, texting while the teacher isn't looking, playing games on the phone and trying to hide it. they do this because school taught them respect for teachers is fake, teachers don't respect them, teachers don't respect other teachers, and teachers abuse their powers for no reason. i had a teacher that once had a call in class she didn't want to answer or cancel (we called it filtering, it's so the person calling think you are busy) so she just let the phone ring for 2 minutes. if a kid did that they would confiscate his phone. this is a normal day in school.
4. i don't know about others, but i remember my first day of school as exciting. i was going to learn, to grow up, to know stuff and then use those stuff to do other stuff. it all went away pretty quickly. i like to think others were like that as well on their first day.
incoherent information, meaning information but without context, reason or usefulness. i remember when they taught us pythagoras's theorem. they didn't explain it, they didn't tell us who he was or how he discovered it, hell they didn't even tell us a lot of when to use it and why it was so importent. they just say a^2+b^2 = c^2, you can solve stuff with it like that, it's called pythagoras's theorem, now go solve 50 math problems with it. i'm not exaggerating, this is exacly how it went. i don't know why people are surprised when students don't care about math or it's history, cause they psychologicly fear about the inevitble papers of questions or the exam.
5. the problem is only in later years, take 20 brazillian kids in the age of 5-6, and ask them if they wan't to learn anything. you will se 20 raised hands with curiosity. some will say math, some will say a certain language, some will say soccer. those who say math or language it's easy, those who say soccer you can still help learn math or a language, by telling them they can go play soccer if they learn 1 hour of math or language a day. if they did well in an exam, buy a cheap soccer ball for their achievement. if you do it before they are ruined by the pressure of school it will work better.
6. i never had teachers like that, because the teacher has an obligation to teach certain topics. if students in someone teacher doesn't learn the material to a certain degree by the end of the year the teacher is in trouble. i've never had a teacher that asked us what we want to know, they always dictated our knowledge and "curiosity". so ofcourse it was fake.
7. farady found phenomenos usefull in electricty, like that metal with electricty attracts other metals and that a metal cage with electricity stops that electromagnetic phenomena. he did that by experimenting. the math you learned was maxwell's equations. sometimes dubbed the faraday maxwell equations. maybe he had math knowledge and i misread somewhere. but i do know they say farady did the discoveries and the laws in writing, and maxwell did the intensive math. it's like how newton's publications had more words then math, and explained laws in words instead of with math most of the time. edison i heard was a school dropout. einstein did enter collage and graduated, but if that is so why did he drop out of high school? i have nothing agains collage, it's the best way to learn in my opinion. but if collage was like high school i don't think einstein would have gone very far there.
8. in my personal opinion, the flaws outweigh the qualities. "Every little flower of curiosity is crushed by society itself" said einstein. happy curious little kids enter school and come out as burned and tired factory workers. being afraid of change will result in no change, the foundation of school will result in the same socity in the next generation.
"Schools are the paradise from which citizens and smart people with knowledge about society are spawned." except you don't like that society, you don't like the dumb kids that don't study and disrespect everyone. how are schools doing their job if they spawn the society you are trying to change.
schools are flawed, and no one is doing anything to change that. our socitey will stay exactly as it is today because people are afraid to change the foundation of how citizens and scientists and the work force is created. schools are the hell from which stagnation is spawned.
Hmm I agree with that guy to a point. Schools can be highly beneficial, and "crushing" as he described it. Partly because not every human wants to be a leader or sovereign, many have a follower or submissive nature. There's a lot of people who is at peace when being told what to do, rather than deciding for themselves; accepting what's ever given to them and not seeking anything more. This may not mix with a teacher who is assertive or aggressive with their opinions. Of course not everyone is willing to abdicate their opinion, and not every teacher is bumptious. A parent can be just as inculcating toward their children as any teacher. Though the difference is the environment and perception of the authoritative figure. Teachers are expected to know what they're talking about, then there's the pressure of looking like an idiot in front of classmates from speaking an opinion; even more so if one have reason to believe the teacher will inadvertently shame them for their thoughts. Curiosity is crushed here, as even the outgoing ones can become submissive to their environment due to aggressive teachers and peers. So yeah, school and society can definitely crush any -confidence- or -curiosity- you have in you as much as it can build it. There's so many contingents involved, though.
Some will tell you how the teachers made schooling a horrible experience for them, some will tell you how cool the teachers were. Even in a survey, the students claiming school as a horrible experience due to the teachers, may be those who simply didn't like receiving F's, no matter how justified. The ones who say school was a great experience for them due to the teachers may very well comprise of some of the very submissive ones who prefer not to question a thing anyways, therefore having no problem with a teacher who is a bigot. You also have your sycophants. Many students that values their own opinion may think negative of that very same teacher. In a world of billions, it'd be rather shortsighted to declare either way as the norm. Disrespectful teachers vs respectful teachers; in the end, neither experiences can be denied.
I think one of the biggest problems I had in school was that my teachers liked to hand out homework to the entire class. That's pointless. Homework is supposed to be for the kids struggling in class so that they can catch up and learn the material. If a kid is getting A's on the test then obviously he doesn't need to do extra work. I never did homework but I always aced all my tests so my grades were always pretty poor. My teachers used to say that I was flippant about my grades because I openly refused to do homework. My response was that my D's get me the same degree as the valedictorian. That comes from the typical politically correct retardation of todays parents. People think that their kids should be exempt from having to make up for their short comings. Wrong ****ing answer. If you're slow you have to run to get faster. If you're weak you have to lift to get stronger. If you're stupid you have to study and do homework to get stronger. You shouldn't get a trophy for losing just to make you feel like a winner. The rest of your class shouldn't have to do homework so you feel like you're as smart as everyone else. Shit like that has ruined Americas youth. Makes kids these days proud for absolutely no reason and overly confident.
To answer the original question. It isn't the students or the teachers. It's the parents. Because Retard Ricky's mom felt like her son was being singled out for no reason. Because Lazy-Ass Lisa's dad demanded the coach give her a soccer trophy when she rode the bench all year. Because all these congressmen and superintendants don't have the balls or sense to do whats right and tell the stupid parents to take their ****ing kids off the pedestal they put them on.
