Blaze Release
Active member
Name me a defence that has shown the level of defensive capabilities that an incomplete susano has shown
Who's stronger, the Second Tsuchikage (Muu) or Itachi?
- Thread starter Oronagato
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What does that have to do with anything? There is a limit, it's not like you can keep making Susanoo stronger and stronger by dumping more chakra into it. Once Susanoo is complete it's complete, pouring more chakra into is only going to keep it active.
"The sphere then seems to explode with a tremendous amount of force, while the exterior walls of the structure effectively restrict the size of the blast radius, resulting in the destruction of everything and anyone caught within as they are pulverised into minute particles of dust."
So if I were to go and pull off the description of Susanoo would all of that be an assumption as well? Nothing in the manga has shown something other than what you see in that description. You're the only one assuming.
kotoamatsukami
Active member
if the person is not naruto or a senju or uchiha or does not have the rennigan they will not beat itachi simple.
Itachi wins this mid-difficulty
The main problem he'll have to face is the invisibility has it was the very reason Muu was praised to the extent of being called the non person
So practically Muu is untraceable by normal sensory means(which Itachi lacks),only Gaara's sensory was able to accomplish such task and Itachi obviously lacks this too,but has itachi himself stated every jutsu has it's catch that can be exploited,and in this case the flaw in the jutsu is that it requires the Tsuchikage to turn back visible while attacking
And that's when he's left open for a counter attack...this scenario can be understood by referring to the Tobi vs Fuu & Torune fight,scenario in which the only means to score a hit on Tobi was to counter attack during the attack frame of the former...task which proved itself valid as it was able to score the hit
In the case of Muu tough he isn't as fortunate as Tobi in having a malleable body,so in case Itachi scores a hit on his body while he turns tangible he'll be dead meat as Itachi's arsenal is made of OHKOs
The same tough can be said about Itachi,if somehow Muu manages to land a hit(which is very unlikely)he'll murder the Uchia
Itachi wins 9/10
The main problem he'll have to face is the invisibility has it was the very reason Muu was praised to the extent of being called the non person
So practically Muu is untraceable by normal sensory means(which Itachi lacks),only Gaara's sensory was able to accomplish such task and Itachi obviously lacks this too,but has itachi himself stated every jutsu has it's catch that can be exploited,and in this case the flaw in the jutsu is that it requires the Tsuchikage to turn back visible while attacking
And that's when he's left open for a counter attack...this scenario can be understood by referring to the Tobi vs Fuu & Torune fight,scenario in which the only means to score a hit on Tobi was to counter attack during the attack frame of the former...task which proved itself valid as it was able to score the hit
In the case of Muu tough he isn't as fortunate as Tobi in having a malleable body,so in case Itachi scores a hit on his body while he turns tangible he'll be dead meat as Itachi's arsenal is made of OHKOs
The same tough can be said about Itachi,if somehow Muu manages to land a hit(which is very unlikely)he'll murder the Uchia
Itachi wins 9/10
Blaze Release
Active member
I had my reasons for saying susano is a manifestation of the the users chakra. Didnt mean the more chakra you pore into it, the stronger it becomes.
Anyway im not saying dust release cannot obliterate it, nor am i saying it can. I havent made an assumption
blazekev90
Active member
Mū has some impressive hype going for him. The Kages unanimously agreed that Ōnoki was the only individual who could defeat him. However, this seemed to be more out of respect for the kekkei tōta that Mū invented rather than his invisibility. However, Itachi was hyped to be a ninja of the highest caliber by monsters like Kabuto and Tobi.
Now, to the heart of the matter: invisibility. Mū's stealth, to me, isn't that impressive outside of hype. He said to have no presence, and yet his presence on sand was detected. Moreover, it was chakra sensing sand, presumably to distinguish between shinobi and desert creatures, which means his chakra doesn't truly vanish. Most importantly: it's never been tested on dōjutsu.
Dōjutsu has been shown, on several occasions, to see chakra, especially the chakra used for jutsu, such as Taiseki's invisibility or the chakra used when molding seals. The Sharingan has the most impressive anti-stealth feats of the known dōjutsu, in fact, as it identified even chakra nanobombs through opaque flesh. With that in mind, I do believe invisibility will play a large role.
From that point onward, it becomes the power of the master of the kekkei tōta against a master of the Mangekyō Sharingan, Kotoamatsukmai, and possessor of the ultimate shield and sword. I definitely side with Itach in jutsu lethality. Moreover, Itachi also has the edge in analytical intelligence and diversity; his clones and genjutsu in particular would be immensely useful tools.
And lastly, Mū swore fealty to Madara in his lifetime, and Madara was a jerk about it too. Interestingly, this somewhat reinforces the point that assassinating a master of the Sharingan isn't easily accomplished through stealth. The databook says the mastered Sharingan can see through all ninjutsu and genjutsu, after all.
Now, to the heart of the matter: invisibility. Mū's stealth, to me, isn't that impressive outside of hype. He said to have no presence, and yet his presence on sand was detected. Moreover, it was chakra sensing sand, presumably to distinguish between shinobi and desert creatures, which means his chakra doesn't truly vanish. Most importantly: it's never been tested on dōjutsu.
Dōjutsu has been shown, on several occasions, to see chakra, especially the chakra used for jutsu, such as Taiseki's invisibility or the chakra used when molding seals. The Sharingan has the most impressive anti-stealth feats of the known dōjutsu, in fact, as it identified even chakra nanobombs through opaque flesh. With that in mind, I do believe invisibility will play a large role.
From that point onward, it becomes the power of the master of the kekkei tōta against a master of the Mangekyō Sharingan, Kotoamatsukmai, and possessor of the ultimate shield and sword. I definitely side with Itach in jutsu lethality. Moreover, Itachi also has the edge in analytical intelligence and diversity; his clones and genjutsu in particular would be immensely useful tools.
And lastly, Mū swore fealty to Madara in his lifetime, and Madara was a jerk about it too. Interestingly, this somewhat reinforces the point that assassinating a master of the Sharingan isn't easily accomplished through stealth. The databook says the mastered Sharingan can see through all ninjutsu and genjutsu, after all.
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Blaze Release
Active member
What a guy. I totally forgot that somebody who said to have no chakra was sensed by gaara's sand. Youve said it all.
What was your reason for saying Susano is a manifestation of the users chakra? Also, from what's been said and shown by the Dust Release don't you think the chances of killing Itachi with Susanoo are far greater than not?
Blaze Release
Active member
Do i personally believe dust release can obliterate a final susano?, no. Hope the manga shows us the answer in onoki. Saying that lets not forget that its this same onoki that lost to madara. The same madara who has the ems (susano) and the same onoki who had dust release.
Itachi Namikaze
Active member
Madara said "last time we fought I showed you just how insignificant you are" or something along those lines.
Madara pretty much powned him dude.
Blaze Release
Active member
Its true they fought each other. Its also trying that going by what madara said and onoki's reaction, madara won;
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Even showed ems madara mocking both him an mu whom are both dust release users
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I'm not saying Madara didn't defeat him but there's no evidence to prove it. The only thing you've provided me with is implications. Even after Madara says that a flashback happens showing Mu and Oonoki and they don't even fight so like I said there's no way of knowing what happened.
And read my post above. You've given me nothing but implications. The flashback shows that they didn't even fight and it was just Madara mocking Mu and Oonoki.
Itachi Namikaze
Active member
Oh come on man! You don't actually think that Madara would say that without it having happened? especially since it was Onoki's flashback and he didn't deny it.
If Madara hadn't beaten him Onoki would have said something instead of having a flashback to when he got beaten.
You are kind of grasping at straws now.
Blaze Release
Active member
Its been cleared up that they fought each other which onoki said at the kage summit. Its also clear that going by the latest chapters madara won. That flashback we saw was merely him telling mu and onoki to obey konoha
It still doesn't say how the fight went, and Mu never fought Madara. For all we know the only reason Onoki lost was because he couldn't hit Madara with a Dust tech, or maybe he was caught in a genjutsu. We don't know what really happened. All I know is that it's been stated that anything that is caught inside of his Dust tech will be obliterated. I think I'll stick to that until proven otherwise.