Who's Faster: Naruto Or Gai
- Thread starter Holy God
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These are irrelevant points. Naruto got the Six Paths Sage Mode through the collection of all nine tailed beasts chakra. The volume and capability was large enough to give him the mode. Madara attained it the same way. Not to mention that Madara has a closer base chakra to Hagoromo than Naruto. While Naruto may have been given a boost by Hagoromo, Madara is getting his power straight from the source itself, the Holy Tree.
A very valid point indeed for the sensing category. I would say due to this, that Naruto is indeed a better sensor, however that doesn't mean better natural reflexes when not concentrating.
I wouldn't call him being fast, "hype". He truly is indeed so. This doesn't help Naruto in this case though since they never made a direct comparison.
Math like that doesn't work. For example, if my base speed was 10, and then I get a power-up with a new speed of 20, you don't add the two, you go with the new power-up's speed.
If you would still like to use that scale, I'm sure that you'd agree Madara is faster than Naruto in their base-forms(he did "blitz" him in his Sage Mode state), correct? If you give them the same power-ups, then Madara obviously comes out on top.
Transcendence
Active member
RSM Naruto. Anybody who reads the manga knows this. The distorting space argument has no merit.
And lol @ the OP thinking Madara has an equal footing Six Paths Mode to Naruto. Lol
And lol @ the OP thinking Madara has an equal footing Six Paths Mode to Naruto. Lol
Narutohokage324
Member
Why because he distorted space? Note that Madara was still tracking him anyway.
^Upper comment before mine explains it I believe
Omar19992010
Active member
When Guy goes into Night Guy/Night Moth he's faster than Naruto. Normal Eight Gate Guy, It's debatable.
Narutp1sasuke2 LetsGo
Member
No, he didn't need the tailed beast chakra to awaken RSM. All he actually needed was Sage Mode and Hagoromo's chakra. Volume of chakra and capability needed wasn't stated anywhere. Kakashi only had a portion of Rikudou's Chakra and his abilities were capable of hitting and damaging Kaguya.
No, he didn't attain it the same way. He doesn't have a closer base chakra to Hagoromo since he didn't actually obtain his chakra.
I can also say the exact same for Naruto. How else would he obtain traits such as Truth Seeker Orbs?
That doesn't change that he has a better sensing feat shown compared to Madara.
Sensing allows for better reactions since he was able to react to Limbo's movement the first time.
It isn't about the direct comparison. It's about feats as well. Madara was only able to react to a V0 RSM Naruto, who is far slower than a cloaked RSM Naruto. Each time Naruto gets close, Madara would almost always use Limbo.
Not having a direct comparison doesn't my stance.
It doesn't work like that. Hagoromo's chakra increase the stats in every ability and every mode.
Because this would presuppose that BM and SM doesn't get enhanced by Six Path's chakra, which isn't true. BSM gets enhanced by Six Paths chakra, which is why it was able to defend against Sasuke's PS, which is tiers ascended to EMS Madara's PS.
Lol, no. He did not blitzed SM Naruto since he still can react to the attack. Then there is this fact that when SM Naruto got close, Madara resorted to using Fire Style ninjutsu.
Base VOTE Naruto? Not a chance since Juudara noted that Sasuke was fast even without Amenojikara. Base Naruto explicitly was able to keep with Base Sasuke. Thus, Base Naruto can outpace Base Madara due to this.
Already addressed. I will reply later when I have time.
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This is completely wrong. The Six Paths Sage Mode is awakened by the joining of all tailed beasts. We've seen examples of this multiple times(Kaguya, Hagoromo, Madara, Obito). Naruto is no different.
They both attained it through the power of the tailed beasts.
Base Naruto = Ashura
Base Madara = Ashura + Indra
I fail to see how Madara does not have the closer chakra. Naruto only has half of the equation.
I don't know what you mean here. The fact however is that Madara has a more pure and plentiful source. There is no reason for him to have a weaker sage mode. That's like saying a 160 pound man could overpower a 300 pound man of similar body structure.
Obviously Naruto is going to be shown as a better sensor because he is an actual sage. Being able to concentrate is completely different however compared to instantaneous reaction. There is no denying this.
Madara would use Limbo because it's his most useful attack. He responded just fine when they were in close-combat. So fine that Madara came out on top in the end. He didn't seem to have any trouble tracking the boy.
Once again, there is no evidence to support that Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o is any better than Madara's. I'm going to predict that you would remind me of the time Sasuke destroyed a meteor that scaled mountains, however, that does not mean that Madara couldn't have done it as well. His slash was directed towards the largest thing on the field at the time, which were the mountains, and his slash went upward, preventing the destruction of multiple targets.
Do you not remember the moment before he stole Hashirama's sage chakra? You know...when he knocked down both Naruto and Sai, though they were looking right at him.
For this, whether or not Sasuke used Amenotejikara or not to catch up is impossible to know. He could have swapped to catch up and then jump for the final blow. Because of this, it's impossible to compare.
Narutohokage324
Member
Let me pitch in Xlad ~
That's where you are completely wrong. Kaguya, Hagoromo, Madara, and Obito all unlocked their powers from becoming the Juubi Jinchuriki first. Naruto, already took it to the next step by receiving the power directly from Hagoromo. This is why it looks exactly like Kyuubi-Sage Mode, because it is Hagoromo's Pure Yang Senjutsu (as he is the directly related to the Kyuubi who is a form of the Juubi)
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<- That's pure Hagoromo's Senjutsu. Now see what happens when RSBM (Rikudou Sage Bijuu Mode) turns on:
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and let's not even dive into the Fire Kanji which represents all the past KCM/BM forms. Should I even bring the manga scans? If the two strands of hair sticking up and the Kanji, and the overall color and look does not answer your question. Then you are playing me for a fool.
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The only thing that Hagoromo's Senjutsu unlocked besides the obvious powers, is the usage of the other Tailed Beasts. The form is obviously Hagoromo's Senjutsu enhanced with Kyuubi chakra. Feats already prove it so.
Naruto does have the stronger version of Sage Mode, because he can actually tap into the Tailed Beast power, use the TSB, flight, and the list goes on. Madara is limited to Sage Techniques, Rinnegan Techniques, and TSB. Take away the Rinnegan, and he is almost completely useless. Naruto on the other hand unlocked all of his abilities with pure Senjutsu alone. Putting him on the obvious larger scale.
Are you talking about these scans in which Naruto uses clones to fight Limbo?
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and
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There was no winner there, as the scans continue they actually go off-panel and you do not see the clones or the Limbo anymore. Meaning they they stalemated, and/or they returned back to Madara. You are also forgetting that the clones themselves were used to only hold them back, Naruto himself was not initiating an attack to defeat them for good. If so, he would of used TSB/used techniques/blitz/etc,. but the same applies to Madara since they are Limbo "clones". Use your imagination.
For a blitz to be called a blitz, the person cannot react to it. Here are some examples:
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SM Naruto blocked the attack with his arms, but he was sent back flying through the brute strength of Madara's speed and attack. That was obviously not a blitz if the person who is getting attacked, reacted.
Sasuke obviously used Shushin. Otherwise Madara would not have had time to tell Sasuke he was fast in the first place.
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and ends
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Whether Madara has access to the elements of the tailed beasts are unknown. Putting that aside, the only difference that could prove you correct, that Naruto has access to the Tailed Beasts' elements, is in fact, not a power of the Six Paths Sage Mode. Naruto has shown only able to use them because the tailed beasts gave him access to use their powers. An example is him obviously using the lava-based Rasengan with only his regular sage mode activated.
As noted above, the tailed beasts' individual elements are not a power of the Six Paths Sage Mode. Naruto has not shown any additive abilities. The only one difference shown between the forms is Madara's regenerative prowess being better.
No, I was talking about when Sasuke was still testing Limbo's abilities. Naruto had matched him in combat and then lost due to Limbo in the end. The fight you provided does however prove that they may be on equal grounds for fighting or tips into Madara's favor. The reason why I say it may tip in Madara's favor is because after Sasuke had came down to warn Naruto, he notes that the shadows are still out and they shouldn't be killed by them. This indicates that Naruto's clones have either been defeated or withdrawn.
I will give you that it was not a "blitz". He did put Naruto in a situation however from such a distance to where he could only block the attack and not dodge or counter it.
I'm not sure on your definition of "shushin", so I won't go too heavily on this. Just so long as you agree that it wasn't done on mere foot-speed.
Narutohokage324
Member
Madara having access to the tailed beasts? Why don't you show me feats of Jj Obito using the Tailed Beast power. If not, I'll take this as a concession, because I know I am right.
The Six Sage Path Mode unlocks their abilities. Naruto's body involves pure Yang, as shown in his tanking abilities even before RSM (Lava, V1/V2 Raikage Punches, and the list goes on). RSM Naruto's tanking feats only include so far a chidori, but I doubt anything can actually break down his form. That's another difference seeing how Madara/Kaguya can actually lose body parts and blood while no form of Naruto has shown that (KCM/BM).
Bring the manga scans for this part of your post. The only time I actually saw Naruto struggle against a Limbo clone, was when he tried to combat JJ Madara head to head and then Madara used Limbo. He was still getting adjusted to the technique itself, the only difference between both Naruto/Sasuke with the Limbo analyzation, is that Naruto can only feel them, and Sasuke can actually SEE what they are and what is happening. That also was stated by Madara himself.
Just means that Madara is fast, faster than the 3rd Raikage/4th Rakage whom Naruto could take in Sage Mode.
I don't understand how that is not a blitz. You see one scan of Sasuke moving quickly towards Madara, Madara turns around and says "You're fast aren't you, Sasuke?", and then Sasuke uses shushin and slices him in half. If he had used Amenotejikara, especially in that chapter, the scene itself would have brought a closeup to the Rinnegan eye. It did not.
Heisenberg Wannabe
Active member
Neither had used the powers of the tailed beasts. That wouldn't fit their character. We didn't see Sasuke using any special elements either, even though he had their chakra. The point you argued was that Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode is better because it allows access to the beasts' powers, and I proved that your only helping point was not even a feature of the mode.
Naruto has never taken such damage as to that it would require the loss of an organ or muscle. Kishimoto also wouldn't allow anything like that without purpose. Sure, Madara lost an arm, but only due to the force of every tailed beasts' tail slamming on him at once. Nothing that Naruto's physical body or body-framed cloak ever took could compare to that.
Yes, Chapter 674 Page 7 (MangaPanda), Naruto fails to succeed in close combat. Then the example I talked more about, at Chapter 676 Page 16 (MangaPanda) implies that Madara's shadows succeeded in defeating Naruto's clones, as Sasuke warns Naruto about them stating they are still outside.
Yes, meaning that Madara is faster than base Naruto at that point. Seems this subject of the topic has been deluded into a fraction of what it was.
As you described, a "blitz" occurs when the enemy cannot react. Madara had plenty of time to compliment Sasuke with a smile, meaning he most likely knew he was coming all along. He knew he was immortal and had nothing to worry about. Whether he was damaged did not matter against a helpless Obito. At that distance, Madara could have easily use Almighty Push or his Truth-Seeking Sphere(if he had one at the moment). I won't even mention his lightning-based ray attack, which Sasuke would have no chance at evading.
Narutohokage324
Member
Fit their characters? How would that not fir their characters when they used Tailed Beast to become Juubi Jins? If there are no feats of Juubi Jin's using the Tailed Beast power (aside from the Juubi), I'm going to end it there.
That's not really correct. Naruto has tanked swords, chidori, lava, Raikage Punches which has astonishing feats in V1/V2, and etc,. (I have a list of it in a thread I'm making before I take my leave). I'll link you to some feats later.
Naruto can pretty much tank anything at this point. Even the Last showcased that with him overpowering a Moon-cutting blast.
What do you mean? The only reason Naruto had trouble was because Madara created a Limbo version of himself right before Naruto attacked him on the
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. If it was made before he was in the air, I doubt Naruto would of had that much difficulty. You're wrong on the part where anything implies that Madara's shadows defeated Naruto's shadow clones. Literally. Go find the scan next time because that exact chapter and number, shows Madara activating the IT. Nothing less, and nothing more.That would not be base Naruto (because he is in SM. SM Naruto > Naruto in speed), but I agree.
Yes and Madara did not have time to react. Remember that Sasuke came to Madara at footspeed alone, in which Madara turned around (sensing most likely) and said "You are fast aren't you, Sasuke?" and then Sauske performed his blitz there. If Madara could of reacted, he would of dodged the blitz itself. The shushin happened there, not as Sasuke was reaching Madara, right after it.
It wouldn't fit their characters because Naruto was the one that was supposed to unite and use the tailed beasts in conjunction with each other. There's also the fact that none of the others have any techniques that could change with element swapping. The Rasengan however is very versatile. The whole point here is to prove that the tailed beasts' chakra is not a sub-set of the Six Paths Sage Mode of Naruto, meaning he has no advantage.
Yes, I'm not doubting that he has impressive durability due to his cloak, but still none of those attacks amount to the power of all nine tailed beasts' tails attacking at once. His chakra cloak blocks the direct impacts of attacks, thus nothing comes into contact with his skin, as to damage it. It's different when ten-tails hosts have no protection like that, but they have the unlimited regeneration to make up for that.
Yes, I was just telling that he couldn't respond to the Limbo at that time. As for my second example, Madara activating Infinite Tsukuyomi has nothing to do with what this topic is about: Naruto's and Madara's clones fighting. The page I told you about clearly tells that the shadows are still out there and a threat, meaning Naruto's clones are not fighting anymore.
He reacted with a sentence. Instead of that sentence, he could have used Sage Art: Storm Style: Lightning Fang, which doesn't require hand-seals and comes straight from the mouth. As I may have said before as well, whether Sasuke used only foot-speed or not is unknown. He could have swapped with multiple other objects to reach him faster.
Sublime Green Beast
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