[Discussion] Who said Uchiha or Senju (pure-blood) have a lot of chakra reserves?

[Mr Hiru]

No, you're looking at it from the wrong angle and you're presuming with basis. Where does it state in the manga that the Senju lack spiritual energy?

Look:

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Stamina a.k.a physical energy is turned into chakra, if you have lots of physical energy, you can produce lots of chakra.

It's a case of quality vs. quantity.

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As far as I could interpret from that image, Stamina is not physical energy. It is also spiritual + physical energy, so no.

Uzumakis were known for their vitality, not large chakra reserves.

This is right. The one who got great reserves (also as a particular case) is Naruto, and this was stated by Kakashi in part 1.

You also need to take into account that it has been hinted at that chakra is inherited in part from parents and the like. Madara and Izuna would have been born already with atleast a decent level of reserves because they are atleast hinted to be the sons of the Uchiha clan head of that time and by proxy the strongest Uchiha at that time. And then they constantly trained from a young age, exhausting themselves over and over again to build up their chakra reserves over time. Eventually they'd unlock the Mangekyou which have very chakra costly jutsu and it's said that Madara used it so often he went blind, so I'd assume his chakra levels skyrocketed from that aswell. Everytime a shinobi exhausts their chakra reserves, they gain a little more each time they recover.

Sasuke was near enough the exact same, and then he got a curse seal from Orochimaru that bolstered his reserves aswell. Think about it. He only had enough chakra for two Chidori at first, but then after recovering he managed 3 of them thanks to the cursed seal. And then everytime he would train with it he exhausted himself alot, which in turn would get him more and more chakra back in return.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense. I'm really tired at the moment.

I beg for my differ. I'm trying to understand your logic, but if the Uchiha clan ancestor only got spiritual energy, where is the needed physical energy to mold chakra (have great reserves)?

The reason I see of why Sasuke was able to execute more chidori is because he learned better control of his own limited chakra reserves, and the effectiveness of his own techniques are due the high spiritual energy he holds in his moderate chakra reserves.

 

[rollin]

It never really stated that they have large amounts of chakra but it has stated that naruto does
The older son only inherited the sages spiritual energies but in order for him to have chakra he needs physical energies
The sages spiritual energy plus the older sons physical energy=yin,because the spiritual is higher quality
The exact opposite of the younger son

 

[Chatte]

Look, simply PUT people need to remember that spiritual energy = one's ability to quickly learn stuff and body energy = one's ability to last longer in battle.
When Naruto and Sakura were compared to Heaven and Earth back in Pt 1, Sakura was referred as having Heaven [aka wisdom aka spiritual energy] since she was first and foremost book-smart, her mind was her greatest power, but she got easily tired. She was advised to work on her Earth - body.
With Naruto, it was the other way around, he was advised to work more on his Heaven [since he was not the book-smart one] since he is okay with his Earth.
And then, in pt. 2, we saw the results. Naruto became more battle-smart and Sakura became more lasting in battle and the superhuman strength.

 

[itachi4real]

Damn lol nobody's giving u the answer u wanna here

 

[9tailsJinchuuriki]

Uzumakis were known for their vitality, not large chakra reserves.

In the pictures above, they explain that stamina is both spiritual and physical energies, which makes up chakra. Uzumaki's have great stamina, that's proven. So that means they have great chakra reserves. Do you deny that?

 

[ANiMUS]

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As far as I could interpret from that image, Stamina is not physical energy. It is also spiritual + physical energy, so no.



This is right. The one who got great reserves (also as a particular case) is Naruto, and this was stated by Kakashi in part 1.



I beg for my differ. I'm trying to understand your logic, but if the Uchiha clan ancestor only got spiritual energy, where is the needed physical energy to mold chakra (have great reserves)?

The reason I see of why Sasuke was able to execute more chidori is because he learned better control of his own limited chakra reserves, and the effectiveness of his own techniques are due the high spiritual energy he holds in his moderate chakra reserves.

I would agree with this if it weren't for the part about Sasuke. Sasuke does have great chakra control, but his the quantity of his reserves were proven by the incident with Danzo. Sasuke with through chakra alone was able to break out of Danzo's seal. (Danzo a kage level opponent who spammed izanagi using the same jutsu he used to enslave all of Root.) This fact gives Sasuke at the very least Kage level chakra. Since this incident Sasuke's charka has increased even further as shown in current manga feats. Still, it pales in comparison to Naruto.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I would agree with this if it weren't for the part about Sasuke. Sasuke does have great chakra control, but his the quantity of his reserves were proven by the incident with Danzo. Sasuke with through chakra alone was able to break out of Danzo's seal. (Danzo a kage level opponent who spammed izanagi using the same jutsu he used to enslave all of Root.) This fact gives Sasuke at the very least Kage level chakra. Since this incident Sasuke's charka has increased even further as shown in current manga feats. Still, it pales in comparison to Naruto.

Again, I interpreted that part as Sasuke having high quality chakra, not quantity. The reason of why he could break out of Danzou's Seal was his powerful chakra (Danzou didn't hold powerful chakra).

 

[majinbuu1307]

Chakra pools don't matter when you have the will of fire.

 

[Mr Hiru]

In the pictures above, they explain that stamina is both spiritual and physical energies, which makes up chakra. Uzumaki's have great stamina, that's proven. So that means they have great chakra reserves. Do you deny that?

Chakra and Stamina have a common basis: Physical and Spiritual Energy (Or Yin and Yang Energy, if we're kind of corny).

But once you mold chakra, you can't revert the process. You can't transform chakra into Stamina, and viceversa... unless you have a special knowledge for this practice, and this knowledge is the Yin Yang Release, the one the Sage used for the Jutsu of Creation of All Things.

Now, I see your point. You're holding the sentence that Uzumaki have great chakra reserves, something I think is not true at all. The only thing has been proven is that Uzumaki holds tremendous lifeforce, since Kushina and Mito could survive the Kyuubi extraction. Furthermore, Mito had to rely on the Byakugou seal to hold chakra.

The only exceptional case is Naruto, who has been explicitely stated to held great quantity of chakra/stamina (by Kakashi and Genma respectively, in part 1).

Chakra pools don't matter when you have the will of fire.

True, that's how Hizuren gave Orochimaru 3 years of pain in his ass XD.

 

[ANiMUS]

Again, I interpreted that part as Sasuke having high quality chakra, not quantity. The reason of why he could break out of Danzou's Seal was his powerful chakra (Danzou didn't hold powerful chakra).

What's the difference? If High quality can accomplish the same thing as high quantity what's the point of differentiating.

 

[Mr Hiru]

What's the difference? If High quality can accomplish the same thing as high quantity what's the point of differentiating.

In practical terms it could seems to be the same.

But in a future battle between Sasuke and Naruto, it could be a tremendous difference.

If being an Uchiha, Sasuke already holds high quality chakra, telling that he holds high reserves (false) also means he holds high stamina (this is also false). In other words, he would be way stronger than Naruto (high quantity + high quality).

So for these two to hold balance for this final fight, it's mandatory for Sasuke to not hold high reserves, but only high quality. I'm expecting for that to be a battle of quality vs quantity.

I made this thread for other reasons of course, I also believe Hashirama and Madara are equal in terms of power. If one of those won, that doesn't mean that one is stronger than the other, that's just a fallacy.

 

[VongolaX]

Remember the chapter when Madara fought the senju clan and lose, telling Hashirama to kill himself or his brother?

That fight lasted a whole day.

 

[ANiMUS]

In practical terms it could seems to be the same.

But in a future battle between Sasuke and Naruto, it could be a tremendous difference.

If being an Uchiha, Sasuke already holds high quality chakra, telling that he holds high reserves (false) also means he holds high stamina (this is also false). In other words, he would be way stronger than Naruto (high quantity + high quality).

So for these two to hold balance for this final fight, it's mandatory for Sasuke to not hold high reserves, but only high quality. I'm expecting for that to be a battle of quality vs quantity.

I made this thread for other reasons of course, I also believe Hashirama and Madara are equal in terms of power. If one of those won, that doesn't mean that one is stronger than the other, that's just a fallacy.

So basically you are saying that while they accomplish the same thing forwards jutsu, large reserves produce enhanced stamina, makes sense.
I agree with the point on how people mistakenly think Hashi>>>Madara. They don't realize that even after the kyuubi was gone Madara and Hashi's fight lasted a long time. Hashi>EMS Madara, but the gap wasn't that big.

 

[Mr Hiru]

So basically you are saying that while they accomplish the same thing forwards jutsu, large reserves produce enhanced stamina, makes sense.
I agree with the point on how people mistakenly think Hashi>>>Madara. They don't realize that even after the kyuubi was gone Madara and Hashi's fight lasted a long time. Hashi>EMS Madara, but the gap wasn't that big.

Yes, that's what I meant about the reserves. And also yes, I think Hashirama and Madara were quite equal in terms of power before dying.

Though even I think I didn't have a good understanding about what really 'reserves' means, I think I clearified something myself and thanks to the collective thinking of every participant of this topic, so I should thank everyone for giving opinions here.

Chakra reserves don't exist in Narutoverse. What really exist is Physical and Spiritual Energy, these are the true reserves inside every shinobi.

These reserves of energies can be transformed in Chakra (for the use of Ninjutsu or Genjutsu) or in Stamina (for the use of Taijutsu).

Naruto holds great amount of both types of energies, and Sasuke, while not holding much physical energy, he indeed holds way more spiritual energy than Naruto.

 

[Narutoarchive101]

I think it's clear on the two different type of clan this about the Uchiha's are know for the genjutus if you had a weak chakra your genjutus can be broken easily so hence the strong chakra. Now with the senju's masters or clan of a thousand skill to be able to master skills to its full extent you would have to have a lot of chakra I think people keep mix up quality with quantity when it come to these two clans the Uchiha's have quality chakra which make there genjutus skills well known and senju's have quantity which make the skills legendary example tobimaru and his skill in water jutsu.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I think it's clear on the two different type of clan this about the Uchiha's are know for the genjutus if you had a weak chakra your genjutus can be broken easily so hence the strong chakra. Now with the senju's masters or clan of a thousand skill to be able to master skills to its full extent you would have to have a lot of chakra I think people keep mix up quality with quantity when it come to these two clans the Uchiha's have quality chakra which make there genjutus skills well known and senju's have quantity which make the skills legendary example tobimaru and his skill in water jutsu.

You're right about the Uchiha, but not about the Senju. The Senju clan doesn't have large quantity of chakra, they only have good physical energy and lifeforce, so they tend to have powerful bodies with a high regeneration rate (I instance Tsunade and Hashirama on this one).

Now, you might right about Tobirama being an exception and thus he having good quantity of both physical and spiritual energy, giving him the ability to execute such jutsus. But by common sense Tobirama should still have more physical than spiritual energy on the veins.

 

[Thorium]

And also talks about lifeforce (Senju). This has nothing to do with chakra reserves.

What did you want Obito to say?

"The Younger son was gifted with, uh...a lot of chakra."?

C'mon dude, it's pretty easy to deduce that the word 'lifeforce' in this context means chakra.

Why else would Chiyo-baa sama use Naruto's chakra if her jutsu was based only on lifeforce? She didn't have enough lifeforce (aka chakra) so she used some of Naruto's.

Without chakra, you die. Lifeforce = chakra. End argument.

 

[Mr Hiru]

What did you want Obito to say?

"The Younger son was gifted with, uh...a lot of chakra."?

C'mon dude, it's pretty easy to deduce that the word 'lifeforce' in this context means chakra.

Why else would Chiyo-baa sama use Naruto's chakra if her jutsu was based only on lifeforce? She didn't have enough lifeforce (aka chakra) so she used some of Naruto's.

Without chakra, you die. Lifeforce = chakra. End argument.

Though I already put the proof of your statement being false, you stand before me, with conviction on your words. I have respect for your confidence, but I'm afraid your ability to read do not impress me at all.

Go and read all this topic again, if you please.

 

[Honord Sage]

The four larges Clans as far as Chakra are 1. Uzumaki, 2. Senju, 3 Uchiha and 4 Hyuga. Uzumaki and Senju body chakra, Uchiha and Hyuga spirit Chakra to the eyes.

 

[Thorium]

Though I already put the proof of your statement being false, you stand before me, with conviction on your words. I have respect for your confidence, but I'm afraid your ability to read do not impress me at all.

Go and read all this topic again, if you please.

And your proof is your statement that lifeforce is about healing and Mokuton jutsu...?


If what you are saying is true, then why is the Mokuton style so greatly affected by Kurama's Yang energy (Naruto's KCM mode)?

Edit: for your benefit, here is the scan. Notice what Yamato says in the bottom left panel:

Spoiler

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