Who is worse: Tobirama or Madara?

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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Tobirama:
-persecuted the Uchiha
-killed Izuna
-didn't let go of past hatred
-created Edo tensei
-tried to stop Senju and Uchiha from becoming allies

Madara:

-wanted to put entire world in a genjutsu
-left his clan
-tried to destroy Village and Hashirama
-Manipulated countless people - Rin, Obito, Nagato
-Killed mercilessly anyone who would stand on his way
 

Filosoofis

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Tobirama:
-persecuted the Uchiha
-killed Izuna
-didn't let go of past hatred
-created Edo tensei
-tried to stop Senju and Uchiha from becoming allies

Madara:

-wanted to put entire world in a genjutsu
-left his clan
-tried to destroy Village and Hashirama
-Manipulated countless people - Rin, Obito, Nagato
-Killed mercilessly anyone who would stand on his way
Them both combined also known as Tobidara
 

Styles

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Tobirama was scared shitless of Madara and put nearly the whole Uchiha clan at fault because of it. And created edo tensei which was stupid and a bad idea and almost caused the world to be under IT.
 

BlacLord™

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Tobirama:
-persecuted the Uchiha
-killed Izuna
-didn't let go of past hatred
-created Edo tensei
-tried to stop Senju and Uchiha from becoming allies

Madara:

-wanted to put entire world in a genjutsu
-left his clan
-tried to destroy Village and Hashirama
-Manipulated countless people - Rin, Obito, Nagato
-Killed mercilessly anyone who would stand on his way
Tobirama didn't ", assigned ET as a Kinjutsu and tucked it away and never tried to stop the Senju allying with the Uchiha. What Tobirama wanted to do was kill Madara and had Hashi not interfered, there would've been no 4th Shinobi World War, and Kushina/Minato wouldn't be dead.
 

UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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Tobirama didn't ", assigned ET as a Kinjutsu and tucked it away and never tried to stop the Senju allying with the Uchiha. What Tobirama wanted to do was kill Madara and had Hashi not interfered, there would've been no 4th Shinobi World War, and Kushina/Minato wouldn't be dead.
Actions speak louder than words. The fact is that Tobirama put Uchiha in the police force - and even after Hashirama told him to not treat them this way. And he had prejudice - see the way he speaks here: prejudice in its finest - if not, why say no to Madara as Hokage?
Otherwise Uchiha wouldn't have tried a coup d'etat.
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Lyke

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Actions speak louder than words. The fact is that Tobirama put Uchiha in the police force - and even after Hashirama told him to not treat them this way. And he had prejudice - see the way he speaks here: prejudice in its finest - if not, why say no to Madara as Hokage?
Otherwise Uchiha wouldn't have tried a coup d'etat.
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What i think
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BlacLord™

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Actions speak louder than words. The fact is that Tobirama put Uchiha in the police force - and even after Hashirama told him to not treat them this way. And he had prejudice - see the way he speaks here: prejudice in its finest - if not, why say no to Madara as Hokage?
Otherwise Uchiha wouldn't have tried a coup d'etat.
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You've posted a scan that doesn't take away from what I've said at all. You're being like Hashirama; naively ignoring the elephant in the room that simply has to be addressed. Tobirama wasn't saying or doing anything hateful, he was stating facts. Did he say "recommend Madara? That Uchiha scum!?" or something similar? No.

He even said "that's fine". Then went onto address the potential problems with his idea, like the fact that the Land of Fire as a whole would be dead against it, that they (including the Uchiha) view Hashirama as the founder of Konoha, and that the clan is - just as the scan I linked shows - unpredictable and prone to falling into the darkness. Are any of these blinded insults? No, it's a pragmatic observation of the situation. The Uchiha were a clan of special interest because of their emotional torrent; this isn't an inimical mithering, it is a fact.

The sweat mark on Hashirama's cheek represents his knowing that what he says is true, but prefers to try and stay idealistic. Though you might be prejudiced against Tobirama for being realistic about the clan's problems "UCHIHAKUNOICHI". And he didn't put them in the Police Force, he gave them the Police Force as a sign of trust. But once again, the clan's heightened sensitivity made them paranoid (and begrudging the idea that the village as a whole is more important than the clan) that "blossomed" during Hiruzen's era.

Also, you can't praise the ones you're being prejudiced against, because the whole point of prejudice is hostility through unfounded thought. He had Uchiha on his team, and praised their policing abilities. And what he stated about them wasn't based off unfounded thought, but extensive observation and research.


Good grief, I like many Uchiha but I'm not biased so I won't ignore the glaringly obvious inherent emotional flaws of the clan. That scan and everything said backs the very words in this scan:

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UCHIHAKUNOICHI

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You've posted a scan that doesn't take away from what I've said at all. You're being like Hashirama; naively ignoring the elephant in the room that simply has to be addressed. Tobirama wasn't saying or doing anything hateful, he was stating facts. Did he say "recommend Madara? That Uchiha scum!?" or something similar? No.

He even said "that's fine". Then went onto address the potential problems with his idea, like the fact that the Land of Fire as a whole would be dead against it, that they (including the Uchiha) view Hashirama as the founder of Konoha, and that the clan is - just as the scan I linked shows - unpredictable and prone to falling into the darkness. Are any of these blinded insults? No, it's a pragmatic observation of the situation. The Uchiha were a clan of special interest because of their emotional torrent; this isn't an inimical mithering, it is a fact.

The sweat mark on Hashirama's cheek represents his knowing that what he says is true, but prefers to try and stay idealistic. Though you might be prejudiced against Tobirama for being realistic about the clan's problems "UCHIHAKUNOICHI". And he didn't put them in the Police Force, he gave them the Police Force as a sign of trust. But once again, the clan's heightened sensitivity made them paranoid (and begrudging the idea that the village as a whole is more important than the clan) that "blossomed" during Hiruzen's era.

Also, you can't praise the ones you're being prejudiced against, because the whole point of prejudice is hostility through unfounded thought. He had Uchiha on his team, and praised their policing abilities. And what he stated about them wasn't based off unfounded thought, but extensive observation and research.


Good grief, I like many Uchiha but I'm not biased so I won't ignore the glaringly obvious inherent emotional flaws of the clan. That scan and everything said backs the very words in this scan:

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If I am being idealistic like Hashirama you are like Sasuke when he just discovered the truth about Itachi, refusing to acknowledge the village twisted system and how its leaders failed.
Want to see an insult directed at an Uchiha? It's here (there are worse versions, but here you go) You can't say that's a pragmatic vision.

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And yes, the Police force was a way of prejudice against the Uchiha, and it has been stated by: Orochimaru and Obito. Hashirama even scolded Tobirama when he discovered that. Tobirama is being apologetic in the scan you posted.

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Right after that, our so realistic Tobirama didn't waist time and called Uchiha a clan possessed by evil.
There was discrimination. Otherwise story wouldn't have followed.
If not, please, answer me:why they were eliminated? Pure greed, I don't think so....
 
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