who is faster ? 7th gate Gai or post Rikudo power up SM Naruto ?

[Bogard]

Striking speed Gai
Reaction speed Naruto
Top speed Naruto

 

[wael reda]

Striking speed Gai
Reaction speed Naruto
Top speed Naruto

I agree about reaction speed and striking speed but gai's shunshin is clearly faster than naruto with feats

 

[TRE MERCER]

First about 7th gate gai and sm naruto :

Spoiler

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Here you can see madara easily react to naruto's shunshin ,bring his TSB ball ,form it to a stick and block though he wasn't full healthy and standing like how he was against gai

Spoiler

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But here ,the manga showed madara react only when gai was under him about to punch him but madara blocked it and gai kept punching a(no shunshin anymore) and madara kept retreating and blocking

Anyone with a brain and objectivity should realise whose shunshin was faster after looking at those two scans

About 8th gate gai and sm naruto :
Sm naruto already couldn't blitz weakened madara who was sitting on his ass ,so any assumptions from you that he can blitz jj madara is invalid and remains assumptions ,also km naruto should be much faster than sm naruto
When the manga showed that only night moth gai distort the space while moving ,it became clear who is the fastest in NV aside from s/t users

Didn't bother to read the rest after i opened that spoiler. When Limbo was used by SM Madara it hit all Bijuu near the same time. Limbo takes the attributes of the users body so since Madara was a Juubi Jin when he used it on Naruto it was not only faster than the previous one it would be even faster than Madara seeing as the non SM Madara Limbo was much faster than him. Naruto dodged JJ Madara Limbo from about 15ft that should be enough to show his speed his tiers above 8th gate Gai who couldn't even blitz Madara. ​

 

[wael reda]

Didn't bother to read the rest after i opened that spoiler. When Limbo was used by SM Madara it hit all Bijuu near the same time. Limbo takes the attributes of the users body so since Madara was a Juubi Jin when he used it on Naruto it was not only faster than the previous one it would be even faster than Madara seeing as the non SM Madara Limbo was much faster than him. Naruto dodged JJ Madara Limbo from about 15ft that should be enough to show his speed his tiers above 8th gate Gai who couldn't even blitz Madara. ​

Lol,limbo isn't faster than madara ,it is as fast as madara at best ,hitting the biju like that doesn't make him faster than sm madara ,naruto didn't evade this limbo with his shunshin ,he just moved his body ,that is a feat for naruto's reactions and reflexes not his shunshin,not to mention that the limbo wasn't necessarily moving at top speed

 

[Bogard]

I agree about reaction speed and striking speed but gai's shunshin is clearly faster than naruto with feats

Gai isn't a shunshin master. He uses raw physical speed due to gates increasing his physical characteristics(mostly the strength of his muscles)

 

[QdonEms]

Gai is faster....

 

[wael reda]

Gai isn't a shunshin master. He uses raw physical speed due to gates increasing his physical characteristics(mostly the strength of his muscles)

I don't know what is called but when gai ran towards madara after activating the 7th gate ,he was clearly faster thasn naruto's shunshin towards madara

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes I am serious Lol


Madara easily saw naruto coming ,he could have evaded if he was standing up ,also blocking=/= can't evade if the manga showed him easily react,bring his TSB ball ,form it and block

Get me proof of the bold.

On the other hand ,the manga clearly showed madara react to gai just when gai was under him about to punch(see madara's sight direction),madara also blocked gai's first punch and didn't shunshin away Lol
The rest wasn't even shunshin but successive punches

Which doesn't help your case, because he blocked Gai, and was physically fast enough to evade/match his speed on FOOT w/o any kind of Shunshin. Also, as Bogard said, Gai doesn't use Shunshin, not to mention the panel CLEARLY shows him moving closer to Madara while Madara moves back, meaning he was moving faster than Gai himself can move, or at least just as fast. Agian, w/o Shunshin.

Naruto didn't evade madara's limbo with his shunshin ,so that doesn't make his shunshin faster than gai's

1. Gai doesn't use Shunshin.

2. Evading something that was keeping up with Gai means that he is faster than Gai.

3. Gai doesn't use Shunshin, nor does Naruto not using Shunshin mean anything.

This is the YRS feats not naruto's shunshin's,also that was flying madara not standing madara

No ,his health and condition then play a role here ,madara himself said "is that because I havent fully regenerated"but then he said "no he got stronger " which means he just realised that ,even if he isn't full healthy yet ,naruto shouldnt have done that unless he had got stronger ,that doesn't delete the fact that madara wasn't full healthy yet and that played a role here

How big of a role? Not like it matters much.

Here ,madara reacted just when gai was up in front of him ,that isnt how madara reacted to naruto ,it is more like how he reacted to 7th gate gai ,and that can be explained that 8th gate gai doesn't start with his top speed but he acquires more speed at the other stages ,which means he wasnt way faster than 7th gate at that stage

The bold is nothing but an assumption. Evening Elephant gets faster, not Gai's movement speed. Only his striking speed. Not to mention Madara showed no level of surprise on par with the surprise he showed when 7G Gai attacked him, during the fight with 8G Gai, so you'd be saying that 7G Gai>8G Gai in speed if you wanna stick with this bad logic.

That is the air canon not gai ,not that only but madara couldn't react to what came after that and he was stomped by the rest of EE

It was both. Gai was moving around and then dashed to attack, and Madara reacted to both the strike and Gai's movements.

 

[wael reda]

Get me proof of the bold.

Doesnt need to ,After naruto used his shunshin ,madara reacted ,brought his tsb ball,formed it and blocked ,madara doesn't even need to use his shunshin to be faster or as fast as a free gudoma ball which moved about a metre before naruto reached madara ,let alone the time it took to form the ball to a stick

Which doesn't help your case, because he blocked Gai, and was physically fast enough to evade/match his speed on FOOT w/o any kind of Shunshin. Also, as Bogard said, Gai doesn't use Shunshin, not to mention the panel CLEARLY shows him moving closer to Madara while Madara moves back, meaning he was moving faster than Gai himself can move, or at least just as fast. Agian, w/o Shunshin.

Again ,when gai ran towards madara after he activated the 7th gate ,the manga showed that madara didn't move a finger before gai could reach him ,the rest is irrelevant here ,it was an attempt to punch madara more than running or blitzing him ,gai only used his top speed when he ran towards madara directly after opening the 7th gate ,the rest was just successive punches with little foot movement

1. Gai doesn't use Shunshin.

I don't know if that is true or not ,but it is irrelevant ,gai only used his top running speed after opening the 7th gate ,the rest was just successive punches with little foot movements ,it doesn't matter what you call it shunshin or not

2. Evading something that was keeping up with Gai means that he is faster than Gai.

Madara barely blocked gai's punch when he used his top running speed ,you can't even prove that limbo was using its top speed or even close

3. Gai doesn't use Shunshin, nor does Naruto not using Shunshin mean anything.

Naruto didn't evade this limbo with even foot speed ,he just moved his body a little ,that is reaction and reflexes feat not foot speed feat

How big of a role? Not like it matters much.

At least ,it means that gai's feat was against someone better than the one who naruto's feat was against

The bold is nothing but an assumption. Evening Elephant gets faster, not Gai's movement speed. Only his striking speed. Not to mention Madara showed no level of surprise on par with the surprise he showed when 7G Gai attacked him, during the fight with 8G Gai, so you'd be saying that 7G Gai>8G Gai in speed if you wanna stick with this bad logic.



It was both. Gai was moving around and then dashed to attack, and Madara reacted to both the strike and Gai's movements.

Okey,ignore the facial expression ,what about the physically expression or reaction !!?madara didn't move a finger before gai could be right under him about to punch ,while madara easily saw naruto coming ,brought his tsb ,formed it ,and blocked despite being at a worse case than that when he faced gai


that is just an attempt from you to downplay 7th gate gai's feat ,you try to show that the manga is contradicted to get rid of the fact that madara reacted to naruto's shunshin much easier than how he reacted to 7th gate gai's top running speed ,you inside yourself know that ,but you brought 8th gate gai here trying to get rid of 7th gate gai's feats


Conclusion:anyone with a brain and objectivity would realise that madara's reacting to naruto's shunshin was easier than his reacting to 7th gate gai's top running speed

 

[KidGamer65]

Doesnt need to ,After naruto used his shunshin ,madara reacted ,brought his tsb ball,formed it and blocked ,madara doesn't even need to use his shunshin to be faster or as fast as a free gudoma ball which moved about a metre before naruto reached madara ,let alone the time it took to form the ball to a stick

That isn't proof that he can evade. You are only assuming he can evade because he blocked, which doesn't make sense.

Again ,when gai ran towards madara after he activated the 7th gate ,the manga showed that madara didn't move a finger before gai could reach him ,the rest is irrelevant here ,it was an attempt to punch madara more than running or blitzing him ,gai only used his top speed when he ran towards madara directly after opening the 7th gate ,the rest was just successive punches with little foot movement

Irrelevant. Madara couldn't see Gai coming like he could see Naruto coming due to the steam covering him, meaning Madara wouldn't know when he took off, thus he wouldn't be able to block him right then and there...doesn't really change the fact that Madara was still slightly outspeeding Gai w/o even using his Shunshin.

Also...lol. Bold is nothing but an assumption. Gai can move at top speed because his movements are purely physical, unlike people like Ay, who use Shunshin. And little foot movement?

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All that is foot movement and striking at the same time. That isn't "a little foot movement"

I don't know if that is true or not ,but it is irrelevant ,gai only used his top running speed after opening the 7th gate ,the rest was just successive punches with little foot movements ,it doesn't matter what you call it shunshin or not

Gonna need proof for your assumptions.

Madara barely blocked gai's punch when he used his top running speed ,you can't even prove that limbo was using its top speed or even close

Barely? Madara never had any issues blocking Gai's attacks, even when he was in the 8th Gate, which is>>>7th Gate.

Unless there's evidence supporting the conclusion, we go with the logical route. Madara is about to get blasted with a powerful attack, and he sent his clone after it, thus he was moving at top speed. Not to mention Madara was even surprised that Naruto evaded. More evidence he was doing his best there.

Naruto didn't evade this limbo with even foot speed ,he just moved his body a little ,that is reaction and reflexes feat not foot speed feat

That's a speed feat. If he moved his body faster than Limbo could come at him, it's a speed feat.

At least ,it means that gai's feat was against someone better than the one who naruto's feat was against

Except it doesn't, since Gai's feat has to actually be at a level where it'd be better, and Madara would have to be weakened enough for it to matter, which he clearly wasn't.

Okey,ignore the facial expression ,what about the physically expression or reaction !!?madara didn't move a finger before gai could be right under him about to punch ,while madara easily saw naruto coming ,brought his tsb ,formed it ,and blocked despite being at a worse case than that when he faced gai

Replied to this above. Madara saw Naruto coming, didn't see Gai coming. Don't know why you are trying to make it seem like 7G Gai is as fast as JJ Madara or almost blitzed him, when Madara had enough speed to block 8G Gai's initial strike, twice.

that is just an attempt from you to downplay 7th gate gai's feat ,you try to show that the manga is contradicted to get rid of the fact that madara reacted to naruto's shunshin much easier than how he reacted to 7th gate gai's top running speed ,you inside yourself know that ,but you brought 8th gate gai here trying to get rid of 7th gate gai's feats

Not really. You are trying to wank Gai's feats, by saying Madara had issues reacting to the 7G, even though he reacted and even started evading/parrying 7G Gai's attacks w/o even using his top speed, and he has feats that let him react to and block 8G Gai's attacks, and 8G Gai>>>7G Gai in speed.

Conclusion:anyone with a brain and objectivity would realise that madara's reacting to naruto's shunshin was easier than his reacting to 7th gate gai's top running speed

Conclusion: Anyone with a brain knows that your argumentation is flawed.

 

[wael reda]

That isn't proof that he can evade. You are only assuming he can evade because he blocked, which doesn't make sense.

You didn't get my point ,the gudoma ball moved about a metre before naruto reached madara (let alone the time to form it ) ,madara doesn't even need to use his shunshin to be faster or as fast as free gudoma ball ,which mean madara could have easily moved out naruto's way

Irrelevant. Madara couldn't see Gai coming like he could see Naruto coming due to the steam covering him, meaning Madara wouldn't know when he took off, thus he wouldn't be able to block him right then and there...doesn't really change the fact that Madara was still slightly outspeeding Gai w/o even using his Shunshin.

What !!?
Firstly ,the steam border was many metres away madara's position ,it isn't like if madara was stuck or inside the steam Lol

Secondly: madara is a rikudo senjutsu and dojutsu user ,steam like that won't prevent him from locating gai

Also...lol. Bold is nothing but an assumption. Gai can move at top speed because his movements are purely physical, unlike people like Ay, who use Shunshin. And little foot movement?

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All that is foot movement and striking at the same time. That isn't "a little foot movement"

Yes ,gai wasn't using his top running speed ,their moving(madara and gai) speed (in terms of the position change)then wasnt that high ,it was just successive punching and successive blocking and evading with little moving

Gonna need proof for your assumptions.

Proved

Barely? Madara never had any issues blocking Gai's attacks, even when he was in the 8th Gate, which is>>>7th Gate.

Gai reached right under him before madara could move his arm away his face

Unless there's evidence supporting the conclusion, we go with the logical route. Madara is about to get blasted with a powerful attack, and he sent his clone after it, thus he was moving at top speed. Not to mention Madara was even surprised that Naruto evaded. More evidence he was doing his best there.

Lol,Madara didn't know that naruto would sense limbo ,so there is no reason that make madara necessarily use his limbo's top speed
Madara was surprised that naruto evaded because naruto wasn't supposed to sense or locate it at the first place

That's a speed feat. If he moved his body faster than Limbo could come at him, it's a speed feat.

It is body reflexes speed feat not foot speed feat

Except it doesn't, since Gai's feat has to actually be at a level where it'd be better, and Madara would have to be weakened enough for it to matter, which he clearly wasn't.

That is already the case here ,gai's feat is better than naruto

Replied to this above. Madara saw Naruto coming, didn't see Gai coming. Don't know why you are trying to make it seem like 7G Gai is as fast as JJ Madara or almost blitzed him, when Madara had enough speed to block 8G Gai's initial strike, twice.

At least it is better than naruto's feat

Not really. You are trying to wank Gai's feats, by saying Madara had issues reacting to the 7G, even though he reacted and even started evading/parrying 7G Gai's attacks w/o even using his top speed, and he has feats that let him react to and block 8G Gai's attacks, and 8G Gai>>>7G Gai in speed.

I don't wank anyone here ,I give the guy what he deserves according to his feats

Conclusion: Anyone with a brain knows that your argumentation is flawed.

nope ,it is completely the other way around

 

[KidGamer65]

You didn't get my point ,the gudoma ball moved about a metre before naruto reached madara (let alone the time to form it ) ,madara doesn't even need to use his shunshin to be faster or as fast as free gudoma ball ,which mean madara could have easily moved out naruto's way

Lol, the ball was right next to him. Where in the hell are you getting a meter from? A meter is 3 feet. This isn't 3 feet, it isn't even half of one foot.

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Proof? Madara needed the Gudo Dama to intercept Obito's warping, and that was from a good 10-15m away let alone less than a foot away from him. Zero proof Madara can move far enough and fast enough to evade Naruto in the time he can pick up a ball right next to him.

What !!?
Firstly ,the steam border was many metres away madara's position ,it isn't like if madara was stuck or inside the steam Lol

Um...if Gai is masked by the steam, Madara can't see him. Where are you getting Madara being inside the steam from?

Secondly: madara is a rikudo senjutsu and dojutsu user ,steam like that won't prevent him from locating gai

It'll prevent him from seeing Gai, and if he can't see when Gai is about to attack, it's useless. Chakra sensing won't help you with that. Hell, sensing isn't necessary to know that Gai is in the giant wall of steam.

Yes ,gai wasn't using his top running speed ,their moving(madara and gai) speed (in terms of the position change)then wasnt that high ,it was just successive punching and successive blocking and evading with little moving

Posted a scan that proved the bold wrong, and the rest is an assumption that you haven't proved yet.

Gai reached right under him before madara could move his arm away his face

Yet he evaded/parried all of Gai's strikes, and blocked 8G Gai's attack. Drop this point.

Lol,Madara didn't know that naruto would sense limbo ,so there is no reason that make madara necessarily use his limbo's top speed
Madara was surprised that naruto evaded because naruto wasn't supposed to sense or locate it at the first place

Irrelevant. If Naruto is about to hit him, then he's going to want to hit Naruto before Naruto can hit him, thus he'd be moving as fast as he can.

It is body reflexes speed feat not foot speed feat

Still a speed feat.

That is already the case here ,gai's feat is better than naruto

It's not though. Madara had to block, Madara reacted to 7G Gai and started backstepping on his attacks.

 

[wael reda]

Lol, the ball was right next to him. Where in the hell are you getting a meter from? A meter is 3 feet. This isn't 3 feet, it isn't even half of one foot.

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Proof? Madara needed the Gudo Dama to intercept Obito's warping, and that was from a good 10-15m away let alone less than a foot away from him. Zero proof Madara can move far enough and fast enough to evade Naruto in the time he can pick up a ball right next to him.

From that angle ,madara is closer ,so yes the distance between the ball's position(the dust) and madara would be around a metre ,metre is about madara's leg length

Madara is much much faster than a free gudoma ball ,Lee outran these gudomas with nothing more than the 5th gate or even less ,so yes madara can easily go away from naruto's way

Um...if Gai is masked by the steam, Madara can't see him. Where are you getting Madara being inside the steam from?

I said that ,the steam borders is many metres away from madara which means even if he cants see gai inside the steam ,he can see him once he comes out .

It'll prevent him from seeing Gai, and if he can't see when Gai is about to attack, it's useless. Chakra sensing won't help you with that. Hell, sensing isn't necessary to know that Gai is in the giant wall of steam.

How!!? Sensing of normal senjutsu can enable its users to fight with closed eyes ,let alone rikudo senjutsu ,madara surly was sensing gai inside the steam ,so not being able to see him inside the steam has nothing to do here since madara can make up for that using his sensing abilities ,to a senjutsu user ,this steam doesn't exist

Posted a scan that proved the bold wrong, and the rest is an assumption that you haven't proved yet.

You showed me that he punched multiple times with a little change in the position ,that shows my point ,also there is already clear feat for gai's top running speed ,why insisting on non clear points !!?

Yet he evaded/parried all of Gai's strikes, and blocked 8G Gai's attack. Drop this point.

But still 7th gates gai's top running speed feat is better than naruto's

Irrelevant. If Naruto is about to hit him, then he's going to want to hit Naruto before Naruto can hit him, thus he'd be moving as fast as he can.

Nope ,not if madara believes that naruto can't see or sense his limbo ,and his limbo can reach naruto before he completes charging or throws his attack without using its top speed
Madara was even flying[

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] ,which means his limbo would be too ,so it isn't even foot speed ,it is flying speed and isn't even necessarily to be top flying speed

Still a speed feat.

But not foot speed feats Lol

It's not though. Madara had to block, Madara reacted to 7G Gai and started backstepping on his attacks.

Whatever ,it is still better than naruto's

 

[KingHashirama]

I'll take Kamute + RSM chakra over 7th gate taijutsu..