Who can actually counter this?

[Rovian]

Well, Konan already did and she heavily wounded him.. I'm sure Nagato is capable of doing the same, Shinra Tensei would force Tobi to return to his solid state, that if he managed to make it on time.

 

[Desmodus]

I will put there people we know at least something about. No second Hokage with his S/T or Hashirama.

Minato is a given.

I don´t know if Naruto can move away from Tobi´s hand though. He has the speed and reflections
(

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) but if he isn´t strong enough or isn´t starting in his KM, is in the stars. It´s a similar problem as with Itachi.

I don´t believe that Raikage can do anything. Even if he has the reactions, he can´t get away from Tobi´s hand (who stopped Suigetsu´s slash -

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).

Kabuto with perception, Madara and Nagato with Rinnegans. All of these are possible (I believe more in Madara than Nagato, though). Kabuto seems pretty fast, so if he can get away from his hand, than maybe (for example, with his barfing. Yuk!) But the time window is really short.

Who puzzles me is Itachi. He knows Tobi. But even if he doesn´t, he seems to know a lot about sharingans. He is definitely fast ( managing to perform susano´o within..

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and

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), but the question is how fast can he go into Mangekyou
(

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) which seems to be fast. When he goes into Susano´o (I´m not sure about genjutsu and the possible outcomes of it) he should be able to throw Tobi away. He clearly is able to think on his toes. It´s more possible for him to defend from Tobi than for current Raikage.

I don´t see anyone else who is capable of doing such a feat.

 

[Ryuga Uchiha]

3rd Raikage, Kabuto Yakushi, Naruto BM, and Muu (Possibly).

 

[Out Of Ctrl]

Only people with S/T ability with the addition of great reflex and speed.

Just look how fast Tobi's warping ability is if he was to start away seriously and no chatting. He warps away Torune instantly.

Spoiler

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Also Tobi doesnt necessarily require to materialize as this manga page shows. You can clearly see that Tobi is poking his head from the ground while being intangible and instantly warping away Fuu as he stands on the ground.

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[TouchMyMangos]

No-one can, that's why Tobi defeats all, including Edo Madara (excluding Kabuto's Edo Tensei army and the So6P).

 

[Splendid Ninja]

This obviously doesn't include Minato, seeing that he's already done it once with FTG (though it can be questionable on whether he was able to FTG in time because Tobi waited a little).

So yeah. Who can counter this, without Tobi stopping to say a few words?

Spoiler

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"Next time I'll warp you the moment I lay my hands on you." Tobi being overconfident, or is it true that Minato only escaped because Tobi waited a little before beginning to warp him?

another example:

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No one noticed him warp, and no one was fast enough to react or even stop him from warping Torune.

I'm posting this thread because I want to see your opinions on whether Tobi warping someone (without that person being aware of him till he lays his hands on them) can be avoided by anyone without an S/T tech like FTG. Too many people in versus threads think people can easily avoid being warped (i.e. Madara), though Minato only managed it with FTG after Tobi waited a little while and said a few words.

By the way, I'm talking one on one, though Fu and Torune are great examples of Tobi being practically impossible to recognize before the person's already warped.
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tl;dr: If someone doesn't even notice Tobi warp over and begin warping someone (Fu and Torune), and if Tobi doesn't stop and chat (Minato), AND if it can only be barely avoided through an S/T tech, AFTER Tobi says a few words (Minato), who can avoid being warped by Tobi?

NOTE: Through reflex, it'd be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to dodge without an S/T tech and possibly a Shinra Tensei with knowledge on Tobi warping. But through instinct, it can for sure possibly be stopped; but instinct doesn't work everytime.

amaterasu if on time

 

[TobisPawn]

I love it how you only reply / address / re-inforce points you agree with, it's fantastic

Nah. To be honest, I'm too lazy to reply to the long arguments. I'll reply to your post, to make you feel better. U_U

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

Nah. To be honest, I'm too lazy to reply to the long arguments. I'll reply to your post, to make you feel better. U_U

It'd only frustrate me because of your ignorance, as I have seen prior

Don't waste your valuable time <3

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

naruto and 4 tails jin can , with speed and lava....

 

[Shadowsaix]

Well in the case with Konan, it was more like the two of them dying if Tobi didnt absorb the blast instead of her. :shrug: so i guess its a tie. dont know if u consider ties as counters.

 

[yondaimeminato]

lol serious? minato got out of the wrapping jutsu because tobi/mask man said few words? really?


minato had no idea of the jutsu. Madara made contact with minato and minato was getting wrapped to another dimension but just split seconds before he gets wrapped into another dimension. He teleported away. This is why when he teleported, minato didn't land well. Minato speeds is milli seconds. For tobi/mask man to wrap around completely minato his jutsu has to be milli seconds fast.

 

[TobisPawn]

It'd only frustrate me because of your ignorance, as I have seen prior

Don't waste your valuable time <3

I'm willing to look at logic...mind showing me examples where I'm ignorant? And I replied:

Tobi pausing didn't give Minato more time to react, like I said before, he only reacted from the start of the teleportation

Naruto has very high chances because BM is insanely fast as is KM, and he can sense emotions and negativity

SM Kabuto has insane perceptual ability and this would help him dodge this more than the majority of the time

Nagato / Madara will both Shinra Tensei as soon as Tobi touches them, which pretty much negates the attack

A in v2, has a very high chance of evading imo

I truly think you are overrating this Jutsu, I can see you're a fan of Tobi and nothing I say would change your opinion so I won't try and change it U_U

Tobi pausing gave Minato a chance to understand the situation more, and settle in. If Tobi warped him immediately, without stopping, Minato would have a lot more trouble in escaping, seeing that he'd already be confused by Tobi's intangibility. As said by Tobi, "next time I'll warp you the moment I lay my hand on you." I'd think that Tobi knows the advantages of his own S/T techs.

Naruto can't sense Tobi's negative emotions when he's shifting through dimensions. The second Tobi actually turns himself tangible, he'll have a grasp on Naruto, making it hard for him to escape, because that'll be the exact moment Naruto senses his emotions. Naruto's speed won't make a difference here (i.e Minato), unless he can manage to break Tobi's grip WHILE being disoriented by the warping. But his sensing abilities might, if he can actually react fast enough. I'd give Naruto a 35-45/100 chance of evading it. And without KM or BM actually activated, I'd say Naruto is pretty much screwed.

SM Kabuto has a chance of avoiding it too, admittedly. But he won't be able to perceive till he's actually appeared again, right behind/through Kabuto. He probably can avoid it, though, if he can react fast enough and stop Tobi from grabbing him (difficult but possible), or if he can react and make Tobi grip an easier to escape-from place (i.e. his tail). I doubt Kabuto can shed fast enough, though, shown by how quickly Torune was gone, and how quickly Minato almost was gone too. I'd give Kabuto the same as Naruto. 35-45/100.

A can probably do it. He has reflexes on par with Kabuto and speed near Naruto's. 60-65/100, because Tobi can get him off guard (especially if he's not in V2).

For Madara and Nagato: They don't have high enough reflexes IMO. If Minato (with his reflexes >>> Madara's or Nagato's) barely dodged it with FTG AFTER Tobi paused, I don't see them getting a Shinra Tensei in fast enough, through reflexes alone. Look at Torune; he didn't even know what happened, pretty much. But if they're using Shinra Tensei on instinct alone (if they know Tobi's coming in to warp them), they can blow him away, but not if they don't know he's warping in the first place IMO. Unless they use Shinra Tensei for no reason at all, just on a whim. But instincts don't work everytime.

I'm a Tobi fan, but I'm willing to look at logic. U_U

lol serious? minato got out of the wrapping jutsu because tobi/mask man said few words? really?


minato had no idea of the jutsu. Madara made contact with minato and minato was getting wrapped to another dimension but just split seconds before he gets wrapped into another dimension. He teleported away. This is why when he teleported, minato didn't land well. Minato speeds is milli seconds. For tobi/mask man to wrap around completely minato his jutsu has to be milli seconds fast.

As I've said, Minato probably could have done it without Tobi's pausing, but with more difficulty.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

I'm willing to look at logic...mind showing me examples where I'm ignorant? And I replied:




Tobi pausing gave Minato a chance to understand the situation more, and settle in. If Tobi warped him immediately, without stopping, Minato would have a lot more trouble in escaping, seeing that he'd already be confused by Tobi's intangibility. As said by Tobi, "next time I'll warp you the moment I lay my hand on you." I'd think that Tobi knows the advantages of his own S/T techs.

Naruto can't sense Tobi's negative emotions when he's shifting through dimensions. The second Tobi actually turns himself tangible, he'll have a grasp on Naruto, making it hard for him to escape, because that'll be the exact moment Naruto senses his emotions. Naruto's speed won't make a difference here (i.e Minato), unless he can manage to break Tobi's grip WHILE being disoriented by the warping. But his sensing abilities might, if he can actually react fast enough. I'd give Naruto a 35-45/100 chance of evading it. And without KM or BM actually activated, I'd say Naruto is pretty much screwed.

SM Kabuto has a chance of avoiding it too, admittedly. But he won't be able to perceive till he's actually appeared again, right behind/through Kabuto. He probably can avoid it, though, if he can react fast enough and stop Tobi from grabbing him (difficult but possible), or if he can react and make Tobi grip an easier to escape-from place (i.e. his tail). I doubt Kabuto can shed fast enough, though, shown by how quickly Torune was gone, and how quickly Minato almost was gone too. I'd give Kabuto the same as Naruto. 35-45/100.

A can probably do it. He has reflexes on par with Kabuto and speed near Naruto's. 60-65/100, because Tobi can get him off guard (especially if he's not in V2).

For Madara and Nagato: They don't have high enough reflexes IMO. If Minato (with his reflexes >>> Madara's or Nagato's) barely dodged it with FTG AFTER Tobi paused, I don't see them getting a Shinra Tensei in fast enough, through reflexes alone. Look at Torune; he didn't even know what happened, pretty much. But if they're using Shinra Tensei on instinct alone (if they know Tobi's coming in to warp them), they can blow him away, but not if they don't know he's warping in the first place IMO. Unless they use Shinra Tensei for no reason at all, just on a whim. But instincts don't work everytime.

I'm a Tobi fan, but I'm willing to look at logic. U_U

Then how about actually listening to someone?

- Naruto, in BM / KM already can dodge it I believe, just sheer speed

- SM Kabuto, no way, he's dodging this the majority of the time easily. I don't quite seem what you're missing, his not even full form of DSM, (i.e. when he was still coming out of the snake) dodged a Susano'o arrow mockingly, (saying tut tut) and this is an extremely fast attack. It doesn't matter about grip because as soon as Kabuto perceives it he can just oral rebirth, doesn't matter where Tobi has a grip on him.

- I said A v2, in which case you agree with me

- Madara I still believe can avoid it, on the other hand Nagato is relatively slow so I could agree here. What you're forgetting is, Shinra Tensei requires no hand seals, and can be done whenever the user desires. So, basically all they have to do is;

Perceive > Think > React

As you say, the abduction is rather quick leaving only 1-2 s time frame, but, he also has to grip, and no matter how fast he starts the abduction afterwards, this stimulus always comes before the abduction and can be reacted to.

As soon as Madara perceives being touched (which is much under 1s, and this is from the grab of Tobi, not the abduction) he has to think how to get him away, and thoughts travel extremely fast, then react, and as we know, Shinra Tensei doesn't need any seals so as soon as Madara thinks Shinra Tensei he can do it. All he needs to do is break the grip of Tobi to stop the abduction, so as soon as Shinra Tensei starts, as it starts from Madara's body as a centre, it will instantly break Tobi's grip, ending the abduction.

Now I know all you're gonna say is, "Tobi's abduction is too fast blablabla" but honestly, I don't think it's as fast as someone thinking to Shinra Tensei after being grappled, and as your favourite argument is 'not being able to perform the attack whilst being warped' is ineffective as Shinra Tensei need not be performed, and also Shinra Tensei is s/t as gravity is as you know linked with s/t

 

[Simplified]

Okay, Tobi's s/t is op, but you overrate it. There's no way he can activate it in a split second, while focusing on keeping the target in place.

 

[~MC117~]

He doesn't have reflexes on par with Minato, nor an S/T tech. Also, he'd have to go in BM/KM first, in which by then he'd already be gone.

And including KM/BM already activated, he'd have to react in one-three seconds AND break Tobi's grip.




No, but I'm saying that Tobi can warp behind the person without them even noticing, and then warp them away before they even realize what happened (Fu and Torune).

So you're saying Madara and Nagato have reflexes even greater than Minato, and an instant S/T like FTG? Tobi won't be stopping to talk, and Madara and Nagato won't even have a chance to react then, if Minato barely FTG'd away AFTER Tobi said a few words first. I'm not being biased at all, just looking at the facts (or manga drawings, or whatever you'd like to call them). U_U

In BM or KM he can do it because of the good speed

 

[MangaFan26]

It would honestly depend on the scenario. You can't say it is impossible to escape without giving it a definate scenario......... Let's say Tobi was just sneaking up on people and out of no where grabbing them and absorbing them instantly. I agree that it would not be escapable in this scenario. Other than this though it can be defeated.

 

[TobisPawn]

Then how about actually listening to someone?

- Naruto, in BM / KM already can dodge it I believe, just sheer speed

- SM Kabuto, no way, he's dodging this the majority of the time easily. I don't quite seem what you're missing, his not even full form of DSM, (i.e. when he was still coming out of the snake) dodged a Susano'o arrow mockingly, (saying tut tut) and this is an extremely fast attack. It doesn't matter about grip because as soon as Kabuto perceives it he can just oral rebirth, doesn't matter where Tobi has a grip on him.

- I said A v2, in which case you agree with me

- Madara I still believe can avoid it, on the other hand Nagato is relatively slow so I could agree here. What you're forgetting is, Shinra Tensei requires no hand seals, and can be done whenever the user desires. So, basically all they have to do is;

Perceive > Think > React

As you say, the abduction is rather quick leaving only 1-2 s time frame, but, he also has to grip, and no matter how fast he starts the abduction afterwards, this stimulus always comes before the abduction and can be reacted to.

As soon as Madara perceives being touched (which is much under 1s, and this is from the grab of Tobi, not the abduction) he has to think how to get him away, and thoughts travel extremely fast, then react, and as we know, Shinra Tensei doesn't need any seals so as soon as Madara thinks Shinra Tensei he can do it. All he needs to do is break the grip of Tobi to stop the abduction, so as soon as Shinra Tensei starts, as it starts from Madara's body as a centre, it will instantly break Tobi's grip, ending the abduction.

Now I know all you're gonna say is, "Tobi's abduction is too fast blablabla" but honestly, I don't think it's as fast as someone thinking to Shinra Tensei after being grappled, and as your favourite argument is 'not being able to perform the attack whilst being warped' is ineffective as Shinra Tensei need not be performed, and also Shinra Tensei is s/t as gravity is as you know linked with s/t

I'm listening to you, aren't I? U_U

For Naruto, I think he can actually dodge it, due to him being able to "flash" away before Tobi can grab him (seeing that Naruto isn't blind and will see him). I've changed my mind on Naruto. But if Tobi gets him when he's down (i.e. when Kakashi and Gai saved him) or when he's not in KM/BM, Tobi has it.

For Kabuto, I guess I agree that he can avoid it for the majority of the time. Would he be able to shed if Tobi grabs his face though (just a thought, I know Kabuto would easily avoid it from there)?

For the Rinnegan users, agreed with Nagato. As for Madara, I think it'd be 50/100-80/100, depending on how wary/alert he is in the moment. If he's being arrogant as usual, and lets his guard down, like the Jinton on him, Tobi would most likely warp him. But if he's completely alert, I'm betting that he'd be able to use ST in time.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

I'm listening to you, aren't I? U_U

For Naruto, I think he can actually dodge it, due to him being able to "flash" away before Tobi can grab him (seeing that Naruto isn't blind and will see him). I've changed my mind on Naruto. But if Tobi gets him when he's down (i.e. when Kakashi and Gai saved him) or when he's not in KM/BM, Tobi has it.

For Kabuto, I guess I agree that he can avoid it for the majority of the time. Would he be able to shed if Tobi grabs his face though (just a thought, I know Kabuto would easily avoid it from there)?

For the Rinnegan users, agreed with Nagato. As for Madara, I think it'd be 50/100-80/100, depending on how wary/alert he is in the moment. If he's being arrogant as usual, and lets his guard down, like the Jinton on him, Tobi would most likely warp him. But if he's completely alert, I'm betting that he'd be able to use ST in time.

Thanks for acknowledging things, and also Madara wouldn't be cocky around Tobi, he knows / would know how strong he is and would take him seriously, and also I'm glad you don't bring up Tobi spamming abduction because as soon as he does it once against someone of Madara's quality Madara would be able to counter it even easier the next time through either the same means or avoiding initial contact.

If he grabbed Kabuto's mouth he could always do that thing where he like rips his jaw open to allow the Giant White (real form) snake to come out, but then oral rebirth as usual, although the time frame for this would be a lot tighter and in this circumstance I'm not sure if he could

 

[EliteKakashi]

Kakashi can pull off kamui instantly(at least, it appears that way now after warping the susanoo arrows), and considering Tobi would be tangible during this technique, it would effect him. Kakashi's reaction time would just have to be quick enough, which is the debatable part.

 

[TobisPawn]

Thanks for acknowledging things, and also Madara wouldn't be cocky around Tobi, he knows / would know how strong he is and would take him seriously, and also I'm glad you don't bring up Tobi spamming abduction because as soon as he does it once against someone of Madara's quality Madara would be able to counter it even easier the next time through either the same means or avoiding initial contact.

If he grabbed Kabuto's mouth he could always do that thing where he like rips his jaw open to allow the Giant White (real form) snake to come out, but then oral rebirth as usual, although the time frame for this would be a lot tighter and in this circumstance I'm not sure if he could

Agreed on Madara. If Tobi misses once, Madara would have a much stronger guard put up. Tobi vs Madara wouldn't be as simple as Tobi warping Madara with no difficulty.

And agreed on the Kabuto thing.