Which characters are faster than 4th Raikage
- Thread starter LuckyMan
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Really? Then what is this?
How do you follow someone running away from you, if said person is faster than you? :lol.
KidGamer65
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Point falls apart when you read the Manga and realize that RT Madara never admitted inferiority to Tobirama's speed. (which would make no sense since he just shat on him in that department) He said that Tobirama was ONCE held as the world's fastest shinobi, but called him pathetic. (in comparison to Madara himself)
Not to mention he has Rikudo's chakra, albeit not on the level of what the other recipients have.
RT Madara>EMS Madara in chakra strength thus his physical abilities such as speed will also get that same boost. So we can't say that Alive EMS Madara=RT Madara in speed anymore tbh.
TRE MERCER
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So me saying Itachi follows him = Itachi is faster than v2 KB? Go home Beans your drunk.
never said the bold, you are getting confused, i only said that TObirama is faster than Living EMS madara
He called him the fastest ninja of his era, meaning when they were alive, thus referring to his EMS self
how would tobirama not be faster than Madara but still be hailed as the fastest? that makes no sense, especially when madara himself acknowledged him on that
when blind madara nearly blitzed SM naruto,
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, so its illogical to assume that there is a big gap between blind madaras shunshin and EMS madaras, and hashiramas statement indicates that there is no gap in their speed at all so in terms of speed its:
RT Madara >> Tobirama > EMS madara = Blind Madara > V1 Ay
THe only ones we got a clear cut explanation on their physical stats being slighty inferior were the hokages and madara,
Kabutos edo tensei is more mastered than Orochimarus, thus the edos are likely to be closer to their full power,
and even if hes not at full power, there is no way we can ignore SM narutos reaction against blind madara and third raikage,
one who nearly blitzed him, whilst the other whose strike was physically evaded and counterattacked,
the gap between the 2 is significant enough to assume that blind madara/ems madara is superior
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KidGamer65
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If anyone's confused here it seems to be you.
1. You claim you didn't say "RT Madara (Blind Madara)=Alive EMS Madara in speed.
2. But then you turn around and say "Hashirama's statement implies that there is no gap in their speed at all". Thus you are saying Blind Madara=Alive EMS Madara.
If you don't think Blind Madara and EMS Madara are equal in Shunshin speed, then mentioning Tobirama's statement is useless as it puts him above EMS Madara, not Blind Madara.
Even then, using Hashirama's statement makes zero sense when "retrieved past powers" has nothing to do with his physical abilities and everything to do with the actual abilities he was using. (Katon) That is unless you want to imply that his statement proves that Blind SM Madara=EMS Madara in jutsu strength and physical ability.
Blind Madara's chakra potency>EMS Madara's, thus Blind Madara's physical abilities should be superior.
I never did, I said that Blind Madara w/no senjutsu = Alive EMS madara
All madara did was use a katon and shunshin,
both of them are diirectly related to power,
if hashirama assosciated his katon and shunshin to be the same as his past self then thats that, there is no turning around
Yes it puts tobiramas speed above EMS madara, like i have explicitly stated on my pprevious post,
and if hashirama directly puts blind madaras speed (and katon if you want to count) on the same echelon as his living self then tobirama is above blind madara w/o senjutsu too
Why are you twisting my words around and saying that im counting SM?
either way why are you ignoring the speed, and only counting katon? thats just nitpicking
Hashiramas statement makes more than enough sense because powers also refer to as physical abilities unless you think that your taijutsu and speed are not a part of your power?
yet we have seen no such boost for Blind madaras powers such as susanoo, which is directly related to his chakra potency so why wuld his shunshin be completely different?
we have also seen a direct comparison from hashirama who has fought him for decades and is directly assosciating blind madaras physical abilities and katon to his living EMS self
either way,, my main point is that tobiramas speed is definitely above V1 Ays, and that the gap between Blind madara and EMS madaras speed is no where near as large as what you are implying, thats if there is any gap at all
KidGamer65
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Which is hilariously incorrect.
Shunshin is speed. Katon is power. Hashirama said after he used Katon "he's regaining his past POWERS as in his abilities. That's what the term "Powers" obviously refers to.
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Which isn't relevant since Blind Madara should be faster.
Except he doesn't, nor can he.
I suggest you actually learn what nitpicking is, and then learn what the term "powers" refers to. You sound all types of silly claiming that Hashirama meant that everything he did was on the same exact scale as it was when he was alive, when he only said he got his past powers back. Not his past power. Please do not ignore the "s" at the end of the word as it changes the meaning of the term completely.
Powers refers to the abilities. That was said right after the Katon. Thus he is referring to what Madara did. You can't say "he was referring to the power of the attack" when the attack has Senjutsu in it. So whether you realize it or not
lol) your ridiculous argumentation leads to you claiming:-EMS Madara=Blind Madara in speed.
-SM Madara Katon=Alive Madara Katon.
It took 9 Bijuu tail slaps to wipe out his Susanoo. Naruto's tail slap matched Sasuke's PS blade. There is a very clear boost there.
Maybe if you purposely choose to misread the Manga, sure. But implying that because of Hashirama's statement that SM Madara's physical abilities and jutsu power=A Madara w/o Senjutsu makes zero sense. Especially since Hashirama's statement doesn't even say what you think it is.
Except your main point has zero evidence behind it, and the rest is a baseless point with zero evidence behind it.
Sigh
your speed is also a part of your power,
so is your physical strength and all of your physical abilties
and No, it wasnt just his ninjutsu that hashirama referred to because one katon isnt going to clearly distinguish such thing,
......
You nitpicked only the katon to help your case and then deliberately ignored speed as part of his power
sure as hell sounds like nitpicking to me
yeah and past ''powers'' was said in regards to his speed
>Hashirama fights Edo Madara in CQC,
>sees blind madaras speed, and then his katon, and then states that he recieved his past powers back
Yeah, his abilitiesPowers refers to the abilities. That was said right after the Katon. Thus he is referring to what Madara did. You can't say "he was referring to the power of the attack" when the attack has Senjutsu in it. So whether you realize it or not
your abiltiies are what you can do, that includes everything,
though why wont he be able to use that katon as an edo? especially when he has used larger katon variants prior to RT?
never said that he was referring to the power of the attack
There is sure as hell nothing ridiculous in this,
we have already seen madara have an almost negligible rikudo chakra boost, thus his body moves just as fast as his living self as implied by hashirama,
so your chakra potency argument doesnt really hold
never claimed that,
narutos tail had the durability to block/withstand Sasukes PS blade,
doesnt mean that it has the same destructive abilities as a PS slash,
and what boost? rikudo boost? Lol what? sure as hell no
Sasukes regular V3 after gaining kyuubi cloak became PS level and was busted by an attack far stronger than bijuus tail swipe given by the size of crater formed by juubitos drop slam
madaras on the otehr hand was bustted by tail swipes nowhere near juubitos attack hell they didnt even form a crater
Rikudos Chakra >>>>>> Kuramas chakra in terms of strength and potency
so if there was rikudo chakra boosting madaras V3, it wouldve been PS level at the very least, yet it wasnt
hence no boost apart from the senjutsu boost that he had
hence no real chakra potency for blind madara w/o senjutsu
thus blind madaras (w/o senjutsu) speed = alive EMS madaras
most of this has Already been addressed
and as for lack of evidence lol what? dont go there because your point is on asserting that madaras chakra is more potent despite the manga showing us otherwise
and that speed somehow isnt a part of your abilities?
annd then you go around calling everything ''baseless'' ''zero evidence'' and ''misreading'' the manga
Orochimaru's edo tensei is the one that made them weaker. Kabuto's edo tensei is not like that. He even made edo madara stronger than his alive self. Except that VOTE Madara had kiuuby, but Kabuto couldn't give him that.
Kabuto's edo tensei did not decrease their stats.
Yes it did. None of the Edo are revived at their full power. Orochimaru absorbed everything Kabuto knew when he was trapped in Izanami and took his chakra back so his ET was the same as Kabutos, and Tobirama still said they weren't at full power. Orochimaru couldn't use ET without the soul of his arms so are you telling me he goes without using ET for 4 years then uses it in War Arc and suddenly they're way stronger than his initial usage against Hiruzen, despite him never using it since his first time? Come on now.
Their bodies are much weaker and their stats were lower across the board. Third Raikage Nukite only gave him a scar when he was alive but pierced through his back and broke his body apart as an Edo, that's definitely a weaker body. Madara got a stat boost when he was revived, before he had his eyes and SM chakra. So yeah, Third Raikage was certainly weaker and that wasn't his top speed.
KidGamer65
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Try learning the English language before we argue this point. He said POWERS. POWERS refers to abilities, not the strength of said abilities. POWER (Hint Hint, no "S") refers to strength.
I.E Superman's POWERS are:
-Flight
-Super Strength
-Super Speed
etc.
Madara retrieving his past POWERS means that he retrieved his past ABILITIES. Nothing to do with scale and nothing to do with Shunshin.
Except:
1. The Katon case ends any and all argumentation you can possibly have on this point, and dancing around it and throwing "nitpick" at it when you don't even know what the word really means isn't going to change anything here.
2. Hashirama made that statement right after he used the Katon.
Explained above. Your poor grasp on the difference between the terms "power" and "powers" is the only reason you are attempting to argue such a ridiculous point.
Yes. Refers to his ABILITIES. Not the strength of his abilities. Getting his powers back, as in getting his abilities back, doesn't automatically translate too "they are the same as they were before".
Then what in the hell are you arguing?
You claim that Hashirama looked at the speed and Katon and said that he got his past powers back, thus Blind Madara w/o Sage Mode=EMS Madara in speed, meaning you ARE referring to the strength of said abilities. You can't come and say "Hashirama said the speed was the same, but only referred to the "Katon" as an "ability" disregarding it's strength.
Please make up your mind and then reply. Your questions on the matter don't matter to me when Hashirama's statement is as clear as day.
No, we haven't seen anything.
-If you can read the Manga then you would know Hashirama never said the bold.
-If you read the Manga then you'd realize that:
1. Unless you think Madara w/ Hagoromo's chakra (no matter how inferior it is in comparison to Sasuke and Naruto's) is the same as EMS Madara, then you have no point with the chakra potency.
2. The Susanoo thing is a weak argument since:
-You'd also be asserting that Senjutsu did nothing to Madara's Susanoo. Which is based on nothing.
-No Susanoo of that level has ever been able to take something close to the level of 9 Bijuu tail slaps, one of those which outputs as much energy as Sasuke's PS's sword. Even if it didn't, your point is still false for the simple fact that you are assuming it had no boost whatsoever based on it taking an attack that you can't prove it could've survived before.
Maybe if you could actually read the Manga and your own posts, you'd realize that you did.
-You claimed that Hashirama looked at Madara's abilities, and made his statement on how he got his powers back, thus meaning that the powers Hashirama evaluated are the same as they were when he was alive.
-If that logic was sound, which it isn't (not by a long shot) you'd be saying SM Madara's Katon=EMS Madara's Katon of the same type despite one having Sage Mode and the other not having Sage Mode.
Thus you are claiming "SM Madara's Katon=EMS Madara's Katon". That simple.
Nope. Read the
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. Point sounds awfully familiar though. :lol
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That is an offensive motion, not a defensive motion. When they clashed, explosions of water were created by the impact. That is them matching power. Simple as that. Only reason a PS Slash from Sasuke is far far superior is because it's a blade and Naruto's tail is a tail.
If this were the other 90% of NB who could actually read the Manga, this reply wouldn't have been made. Your whole garbage comparison falls flat on it's face since "Rikudo's Chakra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2x Kyuubi cloak" in potency is based off of what people with superior boosts got from the chakra.
What's hilarious is that you say "didn't even make a crater" like it means shit, when it obliterated a Susanoo stronger than the one Itachi used to block Kirin, which did obliterate a Mountain. Madara himself even lost an arm while Itachi was unharmed. If we used this garbage logic to determine something's strength, then we'd be coming to the conclusion that Kirin>>Bijuu tail slaps, when Manga feats show otherwise.
Then throw in Hagoromo's chakra and Senjutsu, and you get Bijuu Tail Slaps>>>>Kirin.
All this means is that the portion of Ashura's chakra and the Indra's chakra he had mixed into something not powerful enough to yield a boost anywhere near that of Kurama's boost.
Except to anyone who can read the Manga on their own and form their own conclusion (Not you), they'd realize that EMS Madara+Hagoromo's Chakra+Senjutsu>EMS Madara on his own when it comes to chakra potency. Thus they wouldn't be arguing that RT Madara's V3 Susanoo=EMS Madara's V3 Susanoo when he has Hagoromo's chakra (no matter how weak in comparison to Sasuke and Naruto's) and Senjutsu Chakra buffing his abilities.
Please don't reply with more BS. I'll call YOUR posts baseless, with zero evidence, and I'll call you out on not being able to read the Manga because it is true. Don't cry about me targeting everything when in reality the only one here who can't read the Manga is you, but I can't really be surprised tbh. You did try and claim that Preta Path absorbs a physical attack. :lol