When I really think about Obito's plan.

[The Necromancer]

A lot of people forget Kakashi went through the same thing, he lost his father to suicide, Obito and Rin but instead of letting himself consume by darkness he didn't, fought and always remembered them. This is why I sympathize with Him and not Obito, I understand Obitos side I really do but Rin during the war completely ruin him for me.

Kakashi wasn't an uchiha, who were literally predisposed on a biological level to convert love into hate.

That's like holding a steak in front of a lion and slapping him for trying to eat it. It's genes bro.

 

[Diabound]

People say Obito is a terrible person for going to such drastic measures to fix a terrible system and sympathize with Kakashi. Kakashi has shown no qualms about killing. Next time, try to think about how many wives have been widowed and how many children have been orphaned by the elite, ANBU black ops, decades active murderer for hire known as Kakashi.

This response is trash. Obito was already shown killing without remorse as a kid:

Spoiler

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Inb4 "He was protecting his comrades". Kakashi was too. These are ninja, it's either them or the enemy. Had Rin not died, Obito would've definitely followed in Kakashi's footsteps.

Kakashi wasn't an uchiha, who were literally predisposed on a biological level to convert love into hate.

That's like holding a steak in front of a lion and slapping him for trying to eat it. It's genes bro.

I agree with you, Itachi was able to transcend this curse and it's what makes him a great character.

 

[Punk Hazard]

This response is trash. Obito was already shown killing without remorse as a kid:

Spoiler

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Inb4 "He was protecting his comrades". Kakashi was too. These are ninja, it's either them or the enemy. Had Rin not died, Obito would've definitely followed in Kakashi's footsteps.



I agree with you, Itachi was able to transcend this curse and it's what makes him a great character.

Way to miss the point entirely. People chastise Obito for killing when he killed because he wanted to change the world. But then, they sympathize with Kakashi who killed because that's how he got his paycheck. It makes no sense.

I don't see what the "If Rin hadn't died" part has to do with anything.

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

Have you ever been in love?

Didn't know 12 years Olds knew what love is

 

[Diabound]

Way to miss the point entirely. People chastise Obito for killing when he killed because he wanted to change the world. But then, they sympathize with Kakashi who killed because that's how he got his paycheck. It makes no sense.
I don't see what the "If Rin hadn't died" part has to do with anything

Every single damn shinobi "kills" during war and it's not just to "cash a paycheck", there's honor, civic duty, etc.

I don't see how you can compare combatant kills to those of a terrorist organization Akatsuki....Especially when Obito himself admitted he had to pay for his crimes while Kakashi felt no such way for his kills, nor did Obito hold Kakashi to the same condemnation despite being fully aware of his reputation. You're applying a real-life moral issue here that does not exist in the minds of these characters in question, thus this is a personal bias of yours.

And Obito didn't want to change the world, he wanted to end it.

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[SUPERDEADLYKING]

Not really. For me he is a fantastic character. Everyone though will have different opinions on something. His reasoning, i don't blame him at all lol he was brainwashed by madara and yeah it isn't right what he did but villains ain't meant to do the ''right'' thing though what is ''right'' differs between humans and we are either gonna respect others opinions or always fight about it forever which is what is always happening in this world =)

 

[Punk Hazard]

Every single damn shinobi "kills" during war and it's not just to "cash a paycheck", there's honor, civic duty, etc.

I don't see how you can compare combatant kills to those of a terrorist organization Akatsuki....Especially when Obito himself admitted he had to pay for his crimes while Kakashi felt no such way for his kills, nor did Obito hold Kakashi to the same condemnation despite being fully aware of his reputation. You're applying a real-life moral issue here that does not exist in the minds of these characters in question, thus this is a personal bias of yours.

And Obito didn't want to change the world, he wanted to end it.

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That's bullshit. Obito and Kakashi killed for the same reason, to uphold and apply their beliefs. The only differences between their killing at that Kakashi had permission and got paid for it and that because Kakashi is the protagonist and Tobi is the antagonist, it's portrayed to us as though Obito is wrong. Obito believing he should pay for his crimes and Kakashi not believing he should both mean nothing. Hidan doesn't think he should pay for his crimes in Akatsuki. Neither do Zetsu, Kakuzu, Sasori,Kisame or Deidara. In fact, Kisame thought his loyalty to Akatsuki made him a good person. Are they right simply because they believe so? If the answer is no, then what you said about Kakashi falls apart immediately and completely. The reason Obito thought he needed to pay for his crimes is because Kishi needed him on the protagonist side at the end, and had to make him agree to their viewpoint, which is that he did wrong. In reality, Obito did no more wrong than they did.

That proves my point more. These characters don't have a moral compass that isn't nonsensical. The Five Kage and their respective villages that consist the Shinobi System are all major hypocrites, especially morally, which is why the system was such a failure. This is exemplified in their reaction to Sasuke; they wanted him jailed and possibly executed for crimes they all committed themselves but got off free for on either some crappy exchange or just scott free. So it makes no sense to try and put some kind of moral divide between the killing Kakashi did and the killing Obito did because they themselves have a ****ed up moral divide that doesn't really exist.

That's right. He wanted to end the world and its current system and establish a world of Tsuki no Me free or strife and pain. Same thing.

 

[SatanicGod]

Obito literally said he traveled the world and saw other people go through the pain and losses like he dude which strengthened his conviction to Tsuki no Me. His plan became more motivated BECAUSE thousands die.

When was this said??

 

[Punk Hazard]

When was this said??

During his mental conversation with Naruto. He said all he could see were things that reinforced his idea that the world was hell.

 

[VongolaX]

Uchiha's have a hard time controlling their emotions.
Sasuke was ready to whip out the shinobi system because of his brother and Madara stubbornly lived past his time to ruin the upper generation because of his younger brother's death.

Well, all of that is wrong too.

It's a series of events that happened which lead up to this stupid decision.

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He even stated that he didn't start a war for Rin and Kakashi.

 

[SatanicGod]

During his mental conversation with Naruto. He said all he could see were things that reinforced his idea that the world was hell.

Just reread the mental conversation... I still don't see it :|

 

[Punk Hazard]

Just reread the mental conversation... I still don't see it :|

Found it.

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[SatanicGod]

Found it.

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You liar! You told me it was during the mental conversation with Naruto qq
Lol but ight I'll take my L on this

 

[Diabound]

That's bullshit. Obito and Kakashi killed for the same reason, to uphold and apply their beliefs. The only differences between their killing at that Kakashi had permission and got paid for it and that because Kakashi is the protagonist and Tobi is the antagonist, it's portrayed to us as though Obito is wrong. Obito believing he should pay for his crimes and Kakashi not believing he should both mean nothing. Hidan doesn't think he should pay for his crimes in Akatsuki. Neither do Zetsu, Kakuzu, Sasori,Kisame or Deidara. In fact, Kisame thought his loyalty to Akatsuki made him a good person. Are they right simply because they believe so? If the answer is no, then what you said about Kakashi falls apart immediately and completely. The reason Obito thought he needed to pay for his crimes is because Kishi needed him on the protagonist side at the end, and had to make him agree to their viewpoint, which is that he did wrong. In reality, Obito did no more wrong than they did.

That proves my point more. These characters don't have a moral compass that isn't nonsensical. The Five Kage and their respective villages that consist the Shinobi System are all major hypocrites, especially morally, which is why the system was such a failure. This is exemplified in their reaction to Sasuke; they wanted him jailed and possibly executed for crimes they all committed themselves but got off free for on either some crappy exchange or just scott free. So it makes no sense to try and put some kind of moral divide between the killing Kakashi did and the killing Obito did because they themselves have a ****ed up moral divide that doesn't really exist.

That's right. He wanted to end the world and its current system and establish a world of Tsuki no Me free or strife and pain. Same thing.

Like I said, you're applying a controversial real-life moral issue into this that does not exist in the minds of these two fictional characters, so don't expect people to feel the same way about this as you do. If anything we can agree it's a matter of perspective.

And personally, I think the "all murder is equal" debate is a bunch of bullshit. To think veterans should be condemned as murderers like those serving life in State Prison is nonsense, but that's just me.

 

[startup97]

Spoiler

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[LogicnoJutsu]

Its easier when its someone you don't know, when its someone you admire.....

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

Uchiha's have a hard time controlling their emotions.
Sasuke was ready to whip out the shinobi system because of his brother and Madara stubbornly lived past his time to ruin the upper generation because of his younger brother's death.

Well, all of that is wrong too.

It's a series of events that happened which lead up to this stupid decision.

You must be registered for see links

He even stated that he didn't start a war for Rin and Kakashi.

And then went straight back to the Rin dying

Also Madara didn't start thinking in the whole It till and actually wanted Harashima way to be true until he read the tablet BZ Altered

 

[RedRobin]

His story was way more tragic than that but ok.

 

[Angelic.]

he understood what madaras 'nonsense' meant about winners and losers. rin had to die for konoha to be safe and obitos wish to kakashi couldnt be kept bc of realty. he hated himself too bc he couldnt get there on time to help. he was always late. its not his fault shinobi are trash and try to use little girls as human ticking time bombs, if i was offered an answer to solve real life problems i would take it too

 

[Punk Hazard]

Like I said, you're applying a controversial real-life moral issue into this that does not exist in the minds of these two fictional characters, so don't expect people to feel the same way about this as you do. If anything we can agree it's a matter of perspective.

And personally, I think the "all murder is equal" debate is a bunch of bullshit. To think veterans should be condemned as murderers like those serving life in State Prison is nonsense, but that's just me.

What a hypocrite. Dimiss my argument in the top paragraph for applying real life moral concepts and then you do just that in the second.

Explain how Kakashi casually killing for a paycheck is better than Obito killing to establish world peace.