What was the control jutsu used on Yagura?

[sageadvice]

I agree. If he has KA, and Senju DNA, he should be able to use it somewhat often, so why hasn't he?

 

[supino]

That's a great question. Not only was Yagura a jinchuuriki, but he was supposed to be one of the few perfect jinchuuriki with a perfect bond with his Bijuu. In theory, those kinds of jinchuuriki should be immune to genjutsu.

For Tobi (Obito) to have controlled him anyway, with complete control for over a decade or more, is pretty impressive. That seems like a more powerful genjutsu than either Itachi or Shisui had (and those were both better with genjutsu than Sasuke has ever been).

And if his occular genjutsu is so powerful, why didn't he use it on Minato and end the fight immediately? Or use it on Konan immediately and save himself an eye (and an arm)? Or use it on Danzo at some point in order to steal Shisui's eye? If Obito/Tobi has such a powerful genjutsu, he could have used it in a lot of useful ways, but he didn't.

In fact, why use Akatsuki to capture Jinchuuriki at all? If he can gain perfect control over them, why wouldn't he go out and control all the jinchuuriki directly, and force them to come back to akatsuki headquarters without a fight?

And if he was in complete control over Yagura for so long, why didn't he capture the 3-tails during this time? Why was the 3-tails able to roam free after this point?

There are a lot of things that really don't make sense here.

actually i agree... those are some very interesting points. the whole Yagura business is probably one of the biggest mysteries. could *he* be controlling both Yagura and his tailed beast at the same time?

 

[ObitobiLoL]

This is my theory on what was controlling Yagura.

We all know, what the plans of the main villains are correct? To bring the shinobi world into an endless illusion, which is the moons eye plan.

Now how does one come up with a jutsu that has never been used before? How can one assume that it will even work? A sharingan reflecting off the moon sounds pretty farfetch correct?

No incorrect, I think Madara the originator of the plan had used the moons eye plan on a smaller scale to control Yagura. It only makes sense because why would Madara go to great lengths to even continue the plan if he didn't know it was even possible to conduct.

 

[NaruGoku]

Mei never said she thought it was KA, she said that she thinks there's a connection between that (KA) power and the one that controlled Yagura. basically, i think what she's getting at is that she thinks it was a Sharingan that controlled him.

also, i've been wondering, how the heck is Tobi going to use Infinite Tsukuyomi? The sharingan he has uses Kamui, and from what we've seen, each MS eye only uses one power (and Susanoo comes from the combination of having 2 MS eyes, it's not a power attributed to either eye). So while he can still use generic sharingan genjutsu, he shouldn't have Tsukuyomi in the same eye that has Kamui...

 

[6PathsofKami]

Probably a prototype or maybe the same version of the infinite tsukuyomi and he needed to test it on someone, what better person to use it on than a Kage that is a perfect jinchuriki.

 

[sageadvice]

This is my theory on what was controlling Yagura.

We all know, what the plans of the main villains are correct? To bring the shinobi world into an endless illusion, which is the moons eye plan.

Now how does one come up with a jutsu that has never been used before? How can one assume that it will even work? A sharingan reflecting off the moon sounds pretty farfetch correct?

No incorrect, I think Madara the originator of the plan had used the moons eye plan on a smaller scale to control Yagura. It only makes sense because why would Madara go to great lengths to even continue the plan if he didn't know it was even possible to conduct.

I think the same thing, with regard to his reason for controlling Yagura. It's just the how that I'm wondering. And, if that is the case, that goes beyond a Tsukuyomi.

NaruGoku, I think i mentioned that in one of my posts today, but, yeah! How is it that he's going to do Infinite Tsukuyomi, but he's got a Kamui eye?

 

[ObitobiLoL]

"Probably a prototype or maybe the same version of the infinite tsukuyomi and he needed to test it on someone, what better person to use it on than a Kage that is a perfect jinchuriki."

I agree, I can't see how Madara would even try to initiate this plan unless he was certain it could work, and Yagura was the perfect person to test his jutsu on.

 

[Unbiased]

Yagura wasn't a perfect jinchurriki so any genjutsu would of worked. If he was a perfect jinchurriki then a genjutsu wouldn't of worked. Also he didn't have shisui's sharingan because shisui lost his first sharingan right before the uchiha massacre.

 

[sageadvice]

So, you think he was able to mod a Tsukuyomi, or that this is a totally different tech?

 

[supino]

Mei never said she thought it was KA, she said that she thinks there's a connection between that (KA) power and the one that controlled Yagura. basically, i think what she's getting at is that she thinks it was a Sharingan that controlled him.

also, i've been wondering, how the heck is Tobi going to use Infinite Tsukuyomi? The sharingan he has uses Kamui, and from what we've seen, each MS eye only uses one power (and Susanoo comes from the combination of having 2 MS eyes, it's not a power attributed to either eye). So while he can still use generic sharingan genjutsu, he shouldn't have Tsukuyomi in the same eye that has Kamui...

he did put Konan under a genjutsu after he had used izanagi and had only one eye, his normal eye.... maybe Kamui can also cast a genjutsu? dunno

maybe Madara will do it since he is the one with susanoo and one needs amaterasu and tsukyomi to awaken that third ability

 

[ObitobiLoL]

OKay a continuation of the theory that Madara had used a smaller version of the moon eyes plan on Yagura. NaruGoku brings up a very valid point. You guys are forgetting that part of tobi\obito's plan was to revive Madara, as Madara was aware of the plan as well. Since Tobi cannot use Tsukuyomi we can assume the main part of the plan was to revive Madara to complete the Moons eye plan.

You might say " But obitobilol, Tobi himself has stated that he was going to be the vessel for the ten tails."

Yes true, but you are forgetting he said that when we thought he was Madara correct? We now we know he doesn't have Tsukuyomi, and we now understand that there is two parts to the plan, the first was to collect all tails, the second to Revive Madara and he would be the final part to the Infinite Tsukuyomi

 

[Unbiased]

So, you think he was able to mod a Tsukuyomi, or that this is a totally different tech?

Its a different technique. He was simply controlling Yagura like a puppet. I doubt he was able to create a dream world where Yagura lived.

 

[supino]

probably. the fact that Madara wanted to come back to life is in itself puzzling... why come back when after death one gets away from all the killing and everything. apart from Obito, there are stuff about Madara that would need some further explaining,

 

[sageadvice]

Supino, the dojutsu-granted genjutsu that sharingan users are able to use is not nearly as strong as KA, which is why Yagura's such a mystery.

ObitobiLoL, you are forgetting that Tobi wants to put the Juubi in him first and become the ultimate jinchuriki just so he can cast the genjutsu. So, Madara wouldn't be the caster.

Unbiased, I agree that the Yagura tech was different than a standard Tsukuyomi, but was it an evolved mod of that tech, the KA tech, or a completely unrevealed tech? And is this tech the precursor of the Moon's Eye Plan tech? Or is that a simple Tsukuyomi, superpowered?

 

[supino]

sageadvice, i know. so, it was either not Obito but sb else like Madara or if it was Obito (unlikely) then his kamui can cast a genjutsu or he has an MS with double abilities. on the other hand Sasuke did manage to break free from tsukuyomi relying on his normal sharingan, so it's not impossible to have a stronger than the average sharingan generated genjutsu.

 

[BerserkEdge]

I hope it is revealed

 

[ObitobiLoL]

Yeah I edited my post sage, I think Tobi is just madaras assistant, he just said all those things becuase we all thought he was Madara. The real plan is to revive Madara and use him as the host, since he is more capable and more suitable. Because in all honesty is Tobi even efficient in sealing? I think only Madara has that kind of knowledge.

 

[supino]

Yeah I edited my post sage, I think Tobi is just madaras assistant, he just said all those things becuase we all thought he was Madara. The real plan is to revive Madara and use him as the host, since he is more capable and more suitable. Because in all honesty is Tobi even efficient in sealing? I think only Madara has that kind of knowledge.

he knew a technique to extract and seal the tailed beasts in the statue, though Madara being more experienced should be better at it.

 

[sageadvice]

Well, if the idea is to use Madara as the 10 Tails jinchuriki, can an edo even do that?

 

[CudaJoe]

I think it was Shisui's eye technique that was controlling the mizukage. The fact that it takes like 10 years for the eye technique to be revitalized would explain why we hadn't seen it since the mizukage's capture. Danzo was shown using the eye technique pretty well during the Kage summit, that is why Im leaning towards Danzo being the original "Tobi". Original Tobi never revealed his name as Tobi therefore, it actually could be Danzo or someone else (Madara). Plus Danzo's age fits the bill.

Madara does not have the ability to turn someone into a complete puppet because if he did, the 5 Kages right now would be slaughtering there own soldiers...