what was in the coffin??
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MegamanXZOBMV
Member
@ Hammy:
I'd like to know why you believe the Uchiha Ancestor possessed the Rinnegan. Not quite sure I believe that quite yet. The picture for the Ancestor is badly drawn (around the eyes) To me, one eye looks like it -could- be a Rinnegan, but the other looks like it could be a Sharingan as well.
Fourth Hokage: Why would he be scared of the Fourth Hokage? Well, the Fourth did manage to land a pretty righteous blow to him with a Rasengan, and Madara doesn't have the assistance of the Kyuubi this time around. You could argue that he has all the other tailed beasts to use.. but if that is to be considered, then who else would he be ''visibly disturbed by'' than the Sage of Six Paths?
1st and 2nd Hokage I agree with you on. Not only have they been summoned already, they also have their souls stolen.
Madara: IF his soul had indeed been split for some reason.. that could be plausible.
Uchiha and Senju clan Ancestors - Plausible, though I'd think that the Uchiha clan ancestor would have more of an impact on Madara, just as an opinion.
Izuna Uchiha - Meh. Unless Izuna had very valuable information on Madara, I don't think Madara has any reason to be afraid of his brother. Madara has an EMS.. and even if he was resurrected with his eyes, Izuna does not. It would be interesting to see Izuna's MS in action though. Still, a very likely possibility, and while I don't necessarily think this may be the case, it's the one I'd like to see the most.
I'd like to know why you believe the Uchiha Ancestor possessed the Rinnegan. Not quite sure I believe that quite yet. The picture for the Ancestor is badly drawn (around the eyes) To me, one eye looks like it -could- be a Rinnegan, but the other looks like it could be a Sharingan as well.
Fourth Hokage: Why would he be scared of the Fourth Hokage? Well, the Fourth did manage to land a pretty righteous blow to him with a Rasengan, and Madara doesn't have the assistance of the Kyuubi this time around. You could argue that he has all the other tailed beasts to use.. but if that is to be considered, then who else would he be ''visibly disturbed by'' than the Sage of Six Paths?
1st and 2nd Hokage I agree with you on. Not only have they been summoned already, they also have their souls stolen.
Madara: IF his soul had indeed been split for some reason.. that could be plausible.
Uchiha and Senju clan Ancestors - Plausible, though I'd think that the Uchiha clan ancestor would have more of an impact on Madara, just as an opinion.
Izuna Uchiha - Meh. Unless Izuna had very valuable information on Madara, I don't think Madara has any reason to be afraid of his brother. Madara has an EMS.. and even if he was resurrected with his eyes, Izuna does not. It would be interesting to see Izuna's MS in action though. Still, a very likely possibility, and while I don't necessarily think this may be the case, it's the one I'd like to see the most.
izuna was smarter than madara. while madara went power crazy and lost his eye sight izuna still had the light in his eyes. not to mention that his brother could have killed madara back when he was alive because he knows madara better than anyone.
Hammy120290
Active member
1st Question - The manga said so. The SOSP gave his Body to the Senju Ancestor and Eyes to the Uchiha Ancestor. The SOSP was the original user of the Rinnegan i.e. the Uchiha Ancestor gets the Rinnegan...
2nd Question - Yes Madara would be scared of the SOSP. But why the hell would Kabuto need Madara or Sasuke if he had the soul,will & experience etc etc of the SOSP??????? He wouldnt Kabuto would basically pwn ALL Ninja and have all the knowledge he needs to learn all jutsu from one summon. its not logical
MegamanXZOBMV
Member
1st response: I guess so. Every translation I've read of it though, the ''eyes'' part were in quotations, and that can change things. I always saw it more metaphorically. I also assumed that if we're to assume that the Sage literally divided himself as Bodily and Spiritual energy and graced each son with the respective piece, that the ''eyes'' bequeathed to the elder son couldn't be ''complete''.. that the kekkei genkai/mutation/bodily-and-spirit required that gave the Sage the Rinnegan wasn't complete without the forces he gave to the youngest son. Are we then to also assume that the Uchiha Clan Ancestor couldn't somehow pass on the Rinnegan to his descendants? I still stand by my own theory, that the Sharingan is an ''incomplete'' Rinnegan. Where the Rinnegan can make virtually any jutsu.. the Sharingan can only copy virtually every jutsu. You may be right.. but still looking at the picture it doesn't stand out to me that the Uchiha Clan Ancestor actually had a Rinnegan.. I can see tomoe there. Also if we're taking this literally.. did the Senju Clan Ancestor physically take/implant the Rikudo Sennin's body?
2nd Response: I'm not arguing that if Kabuto summoned the SOSP, he likely wouldn't need Madara. I was referring to a case where you said Madara has no reason to fear the Fourth, to which I responded and posed a plausible argument against my own response, from which the comment of the SOSP was born.
As for the actual contents of the coffin, I'd be more willing to agree with you that something of Madara's is in the coffin, as opposed to his brother. All translations I've read thus far show Madara saying ''Where did you get that'' as opposed to ''Where did you get him/her''. Also, the Outer Path's Samsara of Heavenly Life technique, which returns the souls of the dead and revives those recently slain, was intended for use on Madara, and not on the inhabitants of Konohagakure. I find little reason to believe that Madara would actually fear his blinded brother, or even assuming his eyes were returned, a brother who is weaker than himself. I would say from your suggestions that the Madara ''soul-splitting'' scenario is much more probable.
Edit: Fun-fact - The coffin for what would be the Fourth Hokage never actually appeared in the manga. The Third simply assumed and negated the technique before it could be completed.
2nd Response: I'm not arguing that if Kabuto summoned the SOSP, he likely wouldn't need Madara. I was referring to a case where you said Madara has no reason to fear the Fourth, to which I responded and posed a plausible argument against my own response, from which the comment of the SOSP was born.
As for the actual contents of the coffin, I'd be more willing to agree with you that something of Madara's is in the coffin, as opposed to his brother. All translations I've read thus far show Madara saying ''Where did you get that'' as opposed to ''Where did you get him/her''. Also, the Outer Path's Samsara of Heavenly Life technique, which returns the souls of the dead and revives those recently slain, was intended for use on Madara, and not on the inhabitants of Konohagakure. I find little reason to believe that Madara would actually fear his blinded brother, or even assuming his eyes were returned, a brother who is weaker than himself. I would say from your suggestions that the Madara ''soul-splitting'' scenario is much more probable.
Edit: Fun-fact - The coffin for what would be the Fourth Hokage never actually appeared in the manga. The Third simply assumed and negated the technique before it could be completed.
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it cant be his brother because, sure he would be moved emotionally (slightly) but he would not be afraid. he knows that its not actually his brother and he also said "i congradulate you for putting me in such a position" or watever he said ....i dout his dead non-meaningful brother still has a place in him after all those years.....especially one that isnt even real
Hammy120290
Active member
@MegamanXZOBMV
Ok he might be scared of the 4th my point was that why would he STILL be scared of the 4th after obtaining the Rinnegan? Madara could surely defeat a summon of the 4th.
I doubt he could defeat himself/Uchiha Ancestor/Senju Ancestor.
And the SOSP's "body" I would say is the Uzumaki's longevity/durability. Basically not his ACTUAL body but his long life and his defense.
If you look at the Uchiha Ancestors eyes they are not like a normal Rinnegan its in a swirl not like a ripple.
I never said the PURE version of the Rinnegan i.e. from the original host SOSP or the Uchiha Ancestor didnt have the sharingan in it. I just said they had the Rinnegan.
My theory is the Juubi has the ULTIMATE SHARINGAN you can easily see this in the manga.
Because the SOSP had the Rinnegan but also had the Juubi and he was the Juubis Jinchuuriki I believe that the Juubis chakra mutated the SOSP eyes and gave him the Sharingan + Rinnegan.
So the Sharingan in my eyes originated from the Juubi. The Juubi mutated the Rinnegan and when passed on to the Uchiha Ancestor all of his descendants or children etc developed the sharingan.
Plausible?
Ok he might be scared of the 4th my point was that why would he STILL be scared of the 4th after obtaining the Rinnegan? Madara could surely defeat a summon of the 4th.
I doubt he could defeat himself/Uchiha Ancestor/Senju Ancestor.
And the SOSP's "body" I would say is the Uzumaki's longevity/durability. Basically not his ACTUAL body but his long life and his defense.
If you look at the Uchiha Ancestors eyes they are not like a normal Rinnegan its in a swirl not like a ripple.
I never said the PURE version of the Rinnegan i.e. from the original host SOSP or the Uchiha Ancestor didnt have the sharingan in it. I just said they had the Rinnegan.
My theory is the Juubi has the ULTIMATE SHARINGAN you can easily see this in the manga.
Because the SOSP had the Rinnegan but also had the Juubi and he was the Juubis Jinchuuriki I believe that the Juubis chakra mutated the SOSP eyes and gave him the Sharingan + Rinnegan.
So the Sharingan in my eyes originated from the Juubi. The Juubi mutated the Rinnegan and when passed on to the Uchiha Ancestor all of his descendants or children etc developed the sharingan.
Plausible?
MegamanXZOBMV
Member
I honestly don't think Madara is using the Rinnegan himself. I mean.. he might be, but if we are to believe his words and he gave it to Nagato.. why didn't he just keep it to himself from the beginning? He did mention that he needed Sasuke to bind to that giant statue thing.. maybe you need the Rinnegan to be able to do so, considering how Nagato is the only one seen doing it, and while in the possession of the Rinnegan?
I get what you're saying about the dojutsu mutated by the Jyubi, it's not the first time I've seen that theory. I consider it plausible, I mean.. Jinchuuriki have been affected by their Bijuu before (Specifically in Gaara's case.. he had been the jinchuuriki for so long and at a young age.. he'll never lose his sand manipulation or tanuki-like eyes).
But why even have a Rinnegan/Sharingan combination? Really, what is there that the Sharingan can do that the Rinnegan can't? And why would the SOSP's son be born with an entirely different dojutsu than his own? I suppose mutation could be a cause, I just find it unlikely both in principle and Kishimoto's style.
Who knows though, you could be right.
Edit: Ultimate Sharingan. See, that bugs me about the Jyuubi. It's possible though that the Jyuubi's own dojutsu passed onto the Uchiha clan through the SOSP... and that's why the Kyuubi calls the Uchiha (or was it just Madara?) a clan having more sinister chakra than his own.. who could have more sinister chakra than the strongest of the Nine-Tailed? The Ten-Tailed.
The idea of a Sharingan/Rinnegan combination though irks me... it just seems, redundant.
I get what you're saying about the dojutsu mutated by the Jyubi, it's not the first time I've seen that theory. I consider it plausible, I mean.. Jinchuuriki have been affected by their Bijuu before (Specifically in Gaara's case.. he had been the jinchuuriki for so long and at a young age.. he'll never lose his sand manipulation or tanuki-like eyes).
But why even have a Rinnegan/Sharingan combination? Really, what is there that the Sharingan can do that the Rinnegan can't? And why would the SOSP's son be born with an entirely different dojutsu than his own? I suppose mutation could be a cause, I just find it unlikely both in principle and Kishimoto's style.
Who knows though, you could be right.
Edit: Ultimate Sharingan. See, that bugs me about the Jyuubi. It's possible though that the Jyuubi's own dojutsu passed onto the Uchiha clan through the SOSP... and that's why the Kyuubi calls the Uchiha (or was it just Madara?) a clan having more sinister chakra than his own.. who could have more sinister chakra than the strongest of the Nine-Tailed? The Ten-Tailed.
The idea of a Sharingan/Rinnegan combination though irks me... it just seems, redundant.
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