What people don't understand.............

[ItzShowtime]

Just let them bitch all they want. Its not like Kishi will change the story just for them

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

Why do you believe it is disrespectful? If someone prefers the way Obito acted when he was under the 'Tobi' persona, instead of when he was just being himself, that's not disrespecting Kishi at all. First of all it's just an opinion, and secondly Kishi made the story so that its characters were open to interpretation by all. That's the real quality in his work, the fact that everyone can have a different viewpoint. Kishi doesn't have a set of rules by which every fan should view a certain character and if we break those rules we end up "disrespecting" him, i don't think that's how it works.

I generally prefer the Tobi persona because of the ruthlessness of it. After Nagato's ways were changed, we turned our attention to somebody who was supposed to be "Not like Nagato". Cold, calculating, manipulative, and practically impervious to any form of TNJ - that was Tobi in a nutshell. I understand that Obito's "unmasking" is supposed to reveal his true colours, but firstly I think that the exposure of his reasons for Infinite Tsukyomi were delivered weakly, and secondly the guy is repeatedly spewing out so many pessimistic one liners each chapter he's slowly becoming an example of a second Nagato, just waiting for a TNJ to hit him. Also I didn't like the fact that such a dominant character basically just ended up being Madara's pawn, because that just further suggests that Naruto's gonna try and "free" him from his hatred, as we've seen before. Perhaps that's why so many people are putting their faith in Orochimaru and Madara at the moment as the "true villains" of the series.

But yeah, i'm interested in why you find it "disrespectful" towards Kishi's work

Well you obviously have a problem with Kishi so why don't you send him a letter? lol Do I really need to explain after the crap you just spewed?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well you obviously have a problem with Kishi so why don't you send him a letter? lol Do I really need to explain after the crap you just spewed?

That crap was probably the most intelligent thing posted in this thread.

 

[NB Account]

Alright ^^

 

[jsrhoden]

Well you obviously have a problem with Kishi so why don't you send him a letter? lol Do I really need to explain after the crap you just spewed?

So because I prefer Tobi's character to Obito's character I have a problem with Kishi? Right. No let me rephrase that. Because I disagree with your opinion I have a problem with Kishi?

As I said, Kishi leaves his characters open to interpretation, to either like or dislike them. Your logic is under the premise that because I dislike a character, I dislike Kishi's writing and therefore I dislike the manga. Which is completely wrong.

And yes, you do need to explain why preferring one character over another is disrespectful towards Kishi's work because I can't see to figure out why it would be. You've taken the easy route out, and instead of coming back with some decent points, resorted to a short offensive post. Can I therefore claim victory on this debate?

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

So because I prefer Tobi's character to Obito's character I have a problem with Kishi? Right. No let me rephrase that. Because I disagree with your opinion I have a problem with Kishi?

As I said, Kishi leaves his characters open to interpretation, to either like or dislike them. Your logic is under the premise that because I dislike a character, I dislike Kishi's writing and therefore I dislike the manga. Which is completely wrong.

And yes, you do need to explain why preferring one character over another is disrespectful towards Kishi's work because I can't see to figure out why it would be. You've taken the easy route out, and instead of coming back with some decent points, resorted to a short offensive post. Can I therefore claim victory on this debate?

What debate? I don't debate with, or recognise opinions of people who consider the life lessons taught by this story as TNJ. >_> If you don't understand the story that's your problem.
Move along....

 

[jsrhoden]

What debate? I don't debate with, or recognise opinions of people who consider the life lessons taught by this story as TNJ. >_> If you don't understand the story that's your problem.
Move along....

Ah my apologies, I forgot that I knew nothing about perseverance, courage, kindness, helping comrades and peace before I started reading Naruto....

 

[Punk Hazard]

What debate? I don't debate with, or recognise opinions of people who consider the life lessons taught by this story as TNJ. >_> If you don't understand the story that's your problem.
Move along....

That's a pretty weak response...

By the way, Talk no Jutsu is just a nickname for when a character is changed by another via emotional speech. Whether you like it or not, TNJ is what it is.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

Ah my apologies, I forgot that I knew nothing about perseverance, courage, kindness, helping comrades and peace before I started reading Naruto....

There is no correlation between you knowing about it and the story having those elements whatsoever.

 

[Jonordo]

Too much reading

 

[jsrhoden]

There is no correlation between you knowing about it and the story having those elements whatsoever.

But by knowing and learning about those things I listed, and then having seen those very same themes come up in the story, how can I not "understand" the story like you said?

By the way I still don't recall seeing your justification as to why I am disrespecting Kishi by having a certain viewpoint on one of his characters. Does it stem from the fact that we have conflicting opinions?

 

[Murasame]

Why do you believe it is disrespectful? If someone prefers the way Obito acted when he was under the 'Tobi' persona, instead of when he was just being himself, that's not disrespecting Kishi at all. First of all it's just an opinion, and secondly Kishi made the story so that its characters were open to interpretation by all. That's the real quality in his work, the fact that everyone can have a different viewpoint. Kishi doesn't have a set of rules by which every fan should view a certain character and if we break those rules we end up "disrespecting" him, i don't think that's how it works.

I generally prefer the Tobi persona because of the ruthlessness of it. After Nagato's ways were changed, we turned our attention to somebody who was supposed to be "Not like Nagato". Cold, calculating, manipulative, and practically impervious to any form of TNJ - that was Tobi in a nutshell. I understand that Obito's "unmasking" is supposed to reveal his true colours, but firstly I think that the exposure of his reasons for Infinite Tsukyomi were delivered weakly, and secondly the guy is repeatedly spewing out so many pessimistic one liners each chapter he's slowly becoming an example of a second Nagato, just waiting for a TNJ to hit him. Also I didn't like the fact that such a dominant character basically just ended up being Madara's pawn, because that just further suggests that Naruto's gonna try and "free" him from his hatred, as we've seen before. Perhaps that's why so many people are putting their faith in Orochimaru and Madara at the moment as the "true villains" of the series.

But yeah, i'm interested in why you find it "disrespectful" towards Kishi's work

Well too bad If Obito is "tnj' then deal with it. It's Kishi's story. I know we all have our opinions and I respect it for me I like Obito and his Tobi counterpart, but yall are getting butthurt over Obito too much just accept it or stop watching Naruto. You can have opinions but if you hate it so much then stop reading/watching naruto. Seriously people nowadays :sy: Besides I would rather have Obito be redeemed then die feeling guilt. If you think about it Obito was manipulated by Madara. He's not really evil he wants to create a world thats perfect without tragedies like what happened to him. He was just led in the wrong direction. But hey the series isnt finished, wait to see what happens you just cant automatically assume that he'll get "tnj'd" But I agree on Orochimaru and Madara part they may be the true villains.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

But by knowing and learning about those things I listed, and then having seen those very same themes come up in the story, how can I not "understand" the story like you said?

By the way I still don't recall seeing your justification as to why I am disrespecting Kishi by having a certain viewpoint on one of his characters. Does it stem from the fact that we have conflicting opinions?

You refused to acknowledge the way things went and labelled it TNJ. You just couldn't accept your fav character getting killed off and you couldn't take it. Which is what happens in most cases as I've seen.
The story goes as it is told. Deal with it. What I tried to do with this thread was to show you the truth, but you can close your eyes.

 

[Hipster Madara]

Eh, Obito is a lame, whiny prick. Sorry.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

Eh, Obito is a lame, whiny prick. Sorry.

As are most Naruto fans. Sorry...

 

[jsrhoden]

Well too bad If Obito is "tnj' then deal with it. It's Kishi's story. I know we all have our opinions and I respect it for me I like Obito and his Tobi counterpart, but yall are getting butthurt over Obito too much just accept it or stop watching Naruto. You can have opinions but if you hate it so much then stop reading/watching naruto. Seriously people nowadays :sy: Besides I would rather have Obito be redeemed then die feeling guilt. If you think about it Obito was manipulated by Madara. He's not really evil he wants to create a world thats perfect without tragedies like what happened to him. He was just led in the wrong direction. But hey the series isnt finished, wait to see what happens you just cant automatically assume that he'll get "tnj'd" But I agree on Orochimaru and Madara part they may be the true villains.

Yeah I get what you're saying, and you're right, we will have to see about the TNJ thing, so I shouldn't jump to conclusions. Trust me, I don't hate Obito, in fact I don't actually hate any character in the series, I was just giving my two pence on why I preferred Tobi to Obito and what I think could have been done a bit better with Obito's character. But it would be childish to stop reading the manga/stop watching altogether because firstly there's more to the manga than just Obito, secondly I still really like Naruto as a series, and thirdly because i'm not Kishi I can't change a single thing or do anything about what he chooses to write. So yeah, you're right, in the end we'll just have to deal with it.

 

[jsrhoden]

You refused to acknowledge the way things went and labelled it TNJ. You just couldn't accept your fav character getting killed off and you couldn't take it. Which is what happens in most cases as I've seen.
The story goes as it is told. Deal with it. What I tried to do with this thread was to show you the truth, but you can close your eyes.

For the record, my favourite character is Shikamaru.

Equally though, I could say that you refused to acknowledge that everyone has different views and interpretations of characters, and that we're neither wrong nor right on our interpretations because they are merely opinions. Because Kishi creates his characters to be perceived in many ways, we couldn't possibly be "disrespecting" his work by having an opinion.

 

[AgFresco]

As are most Naruto fans. Sorry...

What a pompous **** you are.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

What a pompous **** you are.

You know it's true. That was the best way to describe 95% of the fanbase.

 

[Murasame]

Yeah I get what you're saying, and you're right, we will have to see about the TNJ thing, so I shouldn't jump to conclusions. Trust me, I don't hate Obito, in fact I don't actually hate any character in the series, I was just giving my two pence on why I preferred Tobi to Obito and what I think could have been done a bit better with Obito's character. But it would be childish to stop reading the manga/stop watching altogether because firstly there's more to the manga than just Obito, secondly I still really like Naruto as a series, and thirdly because i'm not Kishi I can't change a single thing or do anything about what he chooses to write. So yeah, you're right, in the end we'll just have to deal with it.

Yeah exactly! Couldn't have said it better I understand that you prefer Tobi over Obito but for the others who constantly keep bashing/whining over Tobi's identity should just stop watching the series if they hate it so much. Like you said there's more to the manga than just Obito but people dont seem to accept that. I respect you. You arent like those ignorant people. Yeah I guess I can agree more with Obito's character development. They shouldve explained more things about him. But hey we might get that later on