What makes Tobirama a better suiton user than Kisame is...

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Kishi did say it in the fight with the 3rd hokage and Oro

where? show me a scan that says anything but tobirama doign something expected of kage levels and was replicated by darui and mei later on.

 

[TheKBD]

HYPE + A SHITLOAD OF FANTARDS
I seriously had to make this thread... getting 42643 neg reps from Tobirama fanboys is not a problem for me Lol
Feel free to disagree and post scans where Tobirama proves that he's as great as his tards want him to be
...oh and I almost forgot
TOBIRAMA IS NOT HASHIRAMA
SO PLEASE AVOID USING "PROOF"/LOGIC LIKE "HASHI IS OP SO TOBIRAMA MUST BE OP TOO" BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THIS LOGIC TSUNADE SOLOS MINATO JIRAIYA AND OROCHIMARU WITH NEGATIVE DIFFICULTY
thanks for reading
sorry for possible language errors
I'm not a Tobirama hater just a tard hater, I have no problem with his non-biased fans ofc

to be honest, no one really knows, i think people just tend to assume that because he is a hokage he is better, however by this logic Mei who is a mizukage is a better suiton user than tobirama because tobirama was a hokage [which resides in the hidden leaf/land of fire] while Mei resides in hidden mist/land of water, essentially following this logic would lead one to propose the yagura was even better because the three tails is a water release user and he was not only mizukage but was the three tails jinchuuriki

 

[TheKBD]

Mei also creates huge water attacks where no water is you all forget her

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Meis suiotons where enough to counter madaras katon jutsus and madara is obviously one of the strongest katon user

you're just assuming he's one of the strongest because he whipped out one or two JONIN level fire style jutsus, keep in mind that he has an endless supply of chakra so he doesn't have to worry about using jutsus that drain your chakra incredibly quick like most JONIN level jutsus of any elemental release do. furthermore no we don't all forget mei, your statement is false and based on a figure of speech that follows a logic similar too but sadly just as irrational as the "A>B therefore A>C" logic

 

[Minator93]

senjus are worthless fodder trash for the most part. only hashi and tobirama and tsunade are anything and even then hashirama blows both out of the water. tobirama has literally no hype whatsoever, crappy weak suiton and nothing in the way of combat ability

tobirama would be absolutely massacred in seconds by all of those then ripped apart. kisame would at least push them to their limits. if he still had his sword he would have sucked km naruto up and gone on to kill everyone else on turtle island.

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Dafuq did I just read? "Tobirama would be absolutely massacred in seconds by all of those then ripped apart."

Tobirama already shat on EMS Sasuke and his pals with just one finger to a point Hashirama had to intervene. He has s/t and killed MS Izuna who is an equal of Madara.

And in all years Madara could not kill Tobirama because he was unable to even after Hashirama's death Madara did not dare go up against Tobirama U_U

 

[Exaar]

In Suiton.

Tobirama > Kisame in Seals

Kisame > Tobirama at everything else (for now)

 

[sulanis]

I don't think its fair to say that he is or isn't better then kisame, and the reason i say this, is we have only seen Tobirama fight once and he was at a fraction of the power and could still do such powerful water release techniques.

I think we should wait until we see what Tobirama can actually do at full power before we decide anything.

 

[yep]

Having the Senju Lineage and the normal strength of crushing wall with bare hands that coupled with Hype you have the greatest water style user.

We have seen Kisame's full potential and he is below Kakashi, 7gate Guy, KM Naruto, MS Itachi, but Tobirama is far above these guys U_U

And if you think hype doesn't count then let me ask you this, who is powerful Sakumo or Ino? Ino has feats and Sakumo has hype...you decide U_U

I guess Tsunade is also stronger than Kisame Lol
also Ino is fodder compared to sharkman stop using her to disgrace him

 

[Waltz]

Kisame fanboys: Kisame!

Tobirama Fanboys: Tobirama! kishimoto said Tobirama is the best suiton user.


By feats Kisame is portrayed the better suiton user of the two. Going by hype isn't always an intellectual approach to counter feats. Kishimoto saying Tobirama is the best suiton user is identical to him saying Naruto and Sasuke are equals. Kishimoto himself cannot prove such things via the manga, therefore the statement is a contradictory and cannot be taken as fact until supported by the Manga itself.​

 

[TheKBD]

Kisame fanboys: Kisame!

Tobirama Fanboys: Tobirama! kishimoto said Tobirama is the best suiton user.


By feats Kisame is portrayed the better suiton user of the two. Going by hype isn't always an intellectual approach to counter feats. Kishimoto saying Tobirama is the best suiton user is identical to him saying Naruto and Sasuke are equals. Kishimoto himself cannot prove such things via the manga, therefore the statement is a contradictory and cannot be taken as fact until supported by the Manga itself.​

however in rebuttal to your statement, saying that kisame "by feats" has so far been the better suiton user is rather useless because tobirama fan like me who follow logic will be it nicely or rudely, will remind you that we PROBABLY haven't seen tobirama's full potential in t he way of water release techs, i would say this whole thread really is pointless but i'm bored and have nothing better to do for the next 20 minutes so hey why not, though ***** for being the only other voice of reason in this thread so far to not bash a character and claim it as logic.

 

[Exaar]

Kisame fanboys: Kisame!

Tobirama Fanboys: Tobirama! kishimoto said Tobirama is the best suiton user.


By feats Kisame is portrayed the better suiton user of the two. Going by hype isn't always an intellectual approach to counter feats. Kishimoto saying Tobirama is the best suiton user is identical to him saying Naruto and Sasuke are equals. Kishimoto himself cannot prove such things via the manga, therefore the statement is a contradictory and cannot be taken as fact until supported by the Manga itself.​

the thing is, I'm sure kishi never said about Tobirama being the best suiton user, I've asked for Scans from the Manga or Databooks, Never been provided one.
So even Going by hype, Tobirama still isn't the best of the two.

 

[Waltz]

however in rebuttal to your statement, saying that kisame "by feats" has so far been the better suiton user is rather useless because tobirama fan like me who follow logic will be it nicely or rudely, will remind you that we PROBABLY haven't seen tobirama's full potential in t he way of water release techs, i would say this whole thread really is pointless but i'm bored and have nothing better to do for the next 20 minutes so hey why not, though ***** for being the only other voice of reason in this thread so far to not bash a character and claim it as logic.

All i see here is hasty generalization. How can you come to a conclusion based on insufficient/biased evidence that is grounded solely on an unsupported statement (which i doubt even exists) to argue that Tobirama is the better Suiton user of the two? Your argument however is circular as all Tobirama fanboys who are opposing the fact that Kisame is portrayed the better suiton user and not actually proving your claim (the bold).

the thing is, I'm sure kishi never said about Tobirama being the best suiton user, I've asked for Scans from the Manga or Databooks, Never been provided one.
So even Going by hype, Tobirama still isn't the best of the two.

Ditto. I'm not 100% sure if such a scan exists (i doubt) but even if so, it's a weak argument.

 

[Andrediemasjien]

His logic is definetely not this...
You are making stuff up for "defeating" a person in a debate; use their words against them; not your made up stuff.

I was showing that you can't say Tobirama is worse than Kisame because the only times we have actually seen what Tobirama is capable of was when he was summoned by Orochimaru and when he slashed Izuna, and on the other hand we have seen Kisame go to his absolute limit when fighting with Guy and Bee... that is why I said Moegi > Hashirama according to his logic, we cannot know whether or not Tobirama is stronger in the same way we cannot know how strong Moegi is because we have never seen her fight. Yes I see how moronic the comparison is, that is why I used it.

 

[Masked man]

If you take care of what we seen, Kisame is stronger Suiton user because Tobirama didn't show any techniques.
But Tobirama is now summoned as a Edo Tensei and I think Kishi will show why Tobirama was the best Suiton user..
You can't know which techniques will Kishi add to Tobirama.

 

[sthomasf]

BY feats, Kisama is better.

But remeber, Tobirmama created a Water Dragon with one Hand Seal when his own power was extremely nerfed. Remember, at that time, Hashirama could only create a very small forest and now see what he can do. Apply that same power scaling to Tobirama and there you go.

 

[yep]

BY feats, Kisama is better.

But remeber, Tobirmama created a Water Dragon with one Hand Seal when his own power was extremely nerfed. Remember, at that time, Hashirama could only create a very small forest and now see what he can do. Apply that same power scaling to Tobirama and there you go.

^^^^^^^^^^^^fanfiction/theory/assumption...
also Oro was toying around so we don't really know what they were capable of they were weaker ofc

 

[AGoodBoy]

HYPE + A SHITLOAD OF FANTARDS
I seriously had to make this thread... getting 42643 neg reps from Tobirama fanboys is not a problem for me Lol
Feel free to disagree and post scans where Tobirama proves that he's as great as his tards want him to be
...oh and I almost forgot
TOBIRAMA IS NOT HASHIRAMA
SO PLEASE AVOID USING "PROOF"/LOGIC LIKE "HASHI IS OP SO TOBIRAMA MUST BE OP TOO" BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THIS LOGIC TSUNADE SOLOS MINATO JIRAIYA AND OROCHIMARU WITH NEGATIVE DIFFICULTY
thanks for reading
sorry for possible language errors
I'm not a Tobirama hater just a tard hater, I have no problem with his non-biased fans ofc

Tobirama isn't better at suiton than kisame. I refuse to believe that. He was hyped by people who didn't even know about kisame. How the hell does tobirama outdo water dome? Kisame can literally fuse with samehada and swim through the water dome like a shark, has a shark bomb jutsu that gets more powerful by absorbing attacks, has tail beast like chakra and absorbs chakra so he can use even more. No way in hell tobirama can beat these feats or he'd be able to beat madara.

BY feats, Kisama is better.

But remeber, Tobirmama created a Water Dragon with one Hand Seal when his own power was extremely nerfed. Remember, at that time, Hashirama could only create a very small forest and now see what he can do. Apply that same power scaling to Tobirama and there you go.

False. Hashirama created the biggest forest he could. They were in a barrier, he couldn't make the jutsu any bigger. Tobiramas water dragon isn't even impressive. Kisame created a lake and used 1000 shark bombs on 30% Chakra. Kisame could make a water dragon on 1% chakra

I was showing that you can't say Tobirama is worse than Kisame because the only times we have actually seen what Tobirama is capable of was when he was summoned by Orochimaru and when he slashed Izuna, and on the other hand we have seen Kisame go to his absolute limit when fighting with Guy and Bee... that is why I said Moegi > Hashirama according to his logic, we cannot know whether or not Tobirama is stronger in the same way we cannot know how strong Moegi is because we have never seen her fight. Yes I see how moronic the comparison is, that is why I used it.

Kisame didn't go anywhere near his limit. He used some big jutsu but he was filled with chakra and stamina to continue wrecking shit up.

 

[Penguin]

I believe Tobirama will be the better Suiton user when we see him fight, but as of now, Kisame is better at Suiton.

 

[SebastionM]

I really don't see the point of these things, really.

I am a HUGE Tobirama fan, but it really should be obvious that at this current time, Kisame is a better suton user.

First, we have seen very little of Tobirama, but what we have seen/heard is quite impressive.

Second, we have seen EVERYTHING Kisame can do. I mean really, there have been a **** load of battles with Kisame, so it's safe to say we know what he is capable of.

Tobirama is very well known for being the best water user, so odds are he is very high up in those rankings, but I don't see how you can judge something you've never seen.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Tobirama is very well known for being the best water user

by who? your imaginary friend?

I don't think its fair to say that he is or isn't better then kisame, and the reason i say this, is we have only seen Tobirama fight once and he was at a fraction of the power and could still do such powerful water release techniques.

it was fair back before kabuto showed his abilities and everyone called him weak. its entirely tobiramas fault hes shown nothign impressive.

Tobirama > Kisame in Seals

wrong

Tobirama already shat on EMS Sasuke and his pals with just one finger

he didnt do anything. he raised his killing intent. sasuke was merely suprised about it. not even afraid. for a hoakge to have such an evil aura must have been a shock to them. then hashriama flared his chakra and hiruzen had a heart attack, suigetsu melted and the ground cracked. shows the difference in power level.

to a point Hashirama had to intervene

or he just wanted his bro to STFU

He has s/t and killed MS Izuna who is an equal of Madara.

he killed base blind izuna, who was nowhere near madara whatsoever. the only person who claimed that is itachi who doesnt know anything about that era. moroever we dont know what happened int he time before tobiramas final slash. hashirama was there. he probably did all the work.

And in all years Madara could not kill Tobirama because he was unable to even after Hashirama's death Madara did not dare go up against Tobirama

or he just didnt care as he was after moons eye plan not petty revenge. why kill him when you can have him in the eternal dreamworld to torture as much as you want? did madara ever say "tobirama killed my brother"? no he said izuna died from the wounds he got in that battle. nothing suggests tobirama dealt them all

Tobirmama created a Water Dragon with one Hand Seal when his own power was extremely nerfed. Remember, at that time, Hashirama could only create a very small forest and now see what he can do

they were in a barrier so hashirama did the best he could. also nowhere is it said that him being not full power means he was a weakling