What Level/Rank are the sound four at?

[unknownvillain1254]

Apparently i was wrong about Shikamaru considering Tayuya Jonin level but that's not how the bold works because by that logic, Kurenai, Gai, Neji and even Lee would have been tagged special Jonin.

Gai is elite his base speed strength and endurance is that of a jonin plus he knows two/three element

 

[Jinrou]

True however there are exceptions to the rule, Kurenai has other skills of a high level. Gai and more so Lee are exceptions to the rule. Anyway I'm pretty sure that's how Tokujo works that's why they're lower than jonin, you could call them high chunin and low Jonin.

That's still not how it works. Ebisu has above average stats in Nin, Tai and Gen and he's still an Elite Jonin. @bold :lol

Gai is elite his base speed strength and endurance is that of a jonin plus he knows two/three element

So Gai is a Special Jonin and not Jonin? I don't get what you're trying to say

 

[salamander uchiha]

That's still not how it works. Ebisu has above average stats in Nin, Tai and Gen and he's still an Elite Jonin. @bold :lol

Ibiki has a 4.5 in genjutsu(above average), 3.5 in thaijutsu(average) and 2.5 in ninjutsu(below average). Genjutsu is useful in interrogation and that's what he specialises in. Anyhow who said that the other 2 are above average.

 

[Jinrou]

Ibiki has a 4.5 in genjutsu(above average), 3.5 in thaijutsu(average) and 2.5 in ninjutsu(below average). Genjutsu is useful in interrogation and that's what he specialises in. Anyhow who said that the other 2 are above average.

2.5 is the average of 5 bro. Your logic was because X has a high stat in one skill, that means X specializes in that particular skill thus Special Jonin. Again, that's not how it works because by that logic, Gai, Kurenai, Neji and Lee especially would be Special Jounin's.

 

[salamander uchiha]

2.5 is the average of 5 bro. Your logic was because X has a high stat in one skill, that means X specializes in that particular skill thus Special Jonin. Again, that's not how it works because by that logic, Gai, Kurenai, Neji and Lee especially would be Special Jounin's.

That's not how it works you need to use logical principles of the NV if you want to make a case. How would you derive that principle 1 may ask. Well lets see as an example follows. Kakashi has a 3 in stamina/chakra and naruto has a 5 in stamina /chakra. Naruto has 4 times Kakashi's chakra. We can assume that at 4 stamina chakra stat Naruto had double Kakashi's reserves and at 5 he had double that. Therefore it would tie up rationally as it does.

Kurenai has excellence in other stats as for Gai and Lee they're exceptions to the rules as exceptions exist(being a ninja without skill for ninjutsu). Now unless you have something to prove the point your making presnt it or stop clutching. I don't have time to waste with silly games.

 

[Jinrou]

That's not how it works you need to use logical principles of the NV if you want to make a case. How would you derive that principle 1 may ask. Well lets see as an example follows. Kakashi has a 3 in stamina/chakra and naruto has a 5 in stamina /chakra. Naruto has 4 times Kakashi's chakra. We can assume that at 4 stamina chakra stat Naruto had double Kakashi's reserves and at 5 he had double that. Therefore it would tie up rationally as it does.

No lol.. This is direct comparison between characters stats which i believe would also mean Gai has chakra 4 times as much as Kakashi also and equal reserves to Naruto, Gaara etc. The latter especially making no sense and not supported in any way.

And even if you were right, 3.5 > 3 meaning 3.5 is above average and as you can see from your previous post.. you considered 3.5 to be average :lol

Kurenai has excellence in other stats as for Gai and Lee they're exceptions to the rules as exceptions exist(being a ninja without skill for ninjutsu). Now unless you have something to prove the point your making presnt it or stop clutching. I don't have time to waste with silly games.

- Ebisu and Ibiki also have excellence in other stats.

- Except Gai has used Ninjutsu before (Summoning) And by your above logic, his other stats are 'average' hence he should be special Jonin like Ebisu and Ibiki

- Hyuga Hizashi excels in Taijutsu and using your logic doesn't excel in his other stats yet he's a Jonin and not Special Jonin.

- "I dONt HaVE TiME tO WaSTe WiTh SiLlY GaMeS.." Lmao.

 

[salamander uchiha]

No lol.. This is direct comparison between characters stats which i believe would also mean Gai has chakra 4 times as much as Kakashi also and equal reserves to Naruto, Gaara etc. The latter especially making no sense and not supported in any way.

Why doesn't it make sense a logical principle gas been established and can be ratonalised to conclude what I've stated. Whereas you've brought nothing as a rebuttal against it.

And even if you were right, 3.5 > 3 meaning 3.5 is above average and as you can see from your previous post.. you considered 3.5 to be average :lol

that doesn't negate him specialising in a specific field or what I've stated. It just means he's a specialist in one above average in another and below average in another which also adds to the point he's not of Jonin quality. My bad on the 3.5 that would be above average.

- Ebisu and Ibiki also have excellence in other stats.

Other stats are general stats and aren't really ninja fields per se so that point is mute.

- Except Gai has used Ninjutsu before (Summoning) And by your above logic, his other stats are 'average' hence he should be special Jonin like Ebisu and Ibiki.

Guy using ninjutsu or not doesn't negate his status as a special case and by default he'd be excluded from normal parameters. Since he joined the academy as a thaijutsu user and not a ninja in the traditional sense.

- Hyuga Hizashi excels in Taijutsu and using your logic doesn't excel in his other stats yet he's a Jonin and not Special Jonin.

- "I dONt HaVE TiME tO WaSTe WiTh SiLlY GaMeS.." Lmao.

Since Hizashi is dead we can't really conclude what criteria and how he became a jonin since we know next to nothing about his background.

The only conclusive thing about Tokubetsu jonin is they specialise in one field. And they're below jonin in ran therfore logical evaluation dictates jonin specialise in 2 or more fields otherwise there would be no distinction between the two.

If you do have measures that determine each rank please present them or don't waste my time.

 

[Jinrou]

Why doesn't it make sense a logical principle gas been established and can be ratonalised to conclude what I've stated. Whereas you've brought nothing as a rebuttal against it.

Gai has chakra levels on par with the chakra monsters in the series a la Jinchuriki's, Tsunade, possibly Kisame and Ay whose levels have been compared to tailed beasts just because he has a stamina stat of 5? Okay :lol

that doesn't negate him specialising in a specific field or what I've stated. It just means he's a specialist in one above average in another and below average in another which also adds to the point he's not of Jonin quality. My bad on the 3.5 that would be above average.

Awesome.

Other stats are general stats and aren't really ninja fields per se so that point is mute.

What? :lol Either way:

Ebisu: Ninjutsu- 4, Taijutsu- 3.5, Genjutsu- 3.5
Ibiki: Taijutsu- 3.5, Genjutsu- 4.5

Ebisu 3 stats above average, Ibiki 2 stats yet they aren't Jonin but special Jonin. :lol

Your claim: Kurenai has other skills of a high level that's why she's not a special Jonin. So why doesn't this apply to Ebisu and Ibiki?

Guy using ninjutsu or not doesn't negate his status as a special case and by default he'd be excluded from normal parameters. Since he joined the academy as a thaijutsu user and not a ninja in the traditional sense.

Since Hizashi is dead we can't really conclude what criteria and how he became a jonin since we know next to nothing about his background.

This is just you trying to manipulate stuff into your favor now. According to you, Kurenai has other skills of a high level and that's why she's Jonin but Hizashi only has 1 high ability (according to your standards) and isn't a Special Jonin. His death doesn't matter as he wasn't assigned the rank after his death :lol

The only conclusive thing about Tokubetsu jonin is they specialise in one field. And they're below jonin in ran therfore logical evaluation dictates jonin specialise in 2 or more fields otherwise there would be no distinction between the two.

If you do have measures that determine each rank please presnt them or don't waste my time.

Ebisu is a specialist in teaching, Ibiki a specialist in interrogation, Tokuma Hyuga is a specialist in tracking and Raido is a specialist in assassination. Their stats in Nin, tai and gen don't determine their Special Jonin status but probably the fact that most if not all their techniques/Jutsu are heavily/completely involved in their fields

 

[salamander uchiha]

Gai has chakra levels on par with the chakra monsters in the series a la Jinchuriki's, Tsunade, possibly Kisame and Ay whose levels have been compared to tailed beasts just because he has a stamina stat of 5? Okay :lol

The databook takes base Stamina into account so wouldn't include yin seal as part of the stat or tailed beast chakra modes/cloaks etc. And what's wrong with guy having chakra = to chakra monsters. We dont have stats for Ay to make a valid measure of his chakra reserves and base Kisame's stats are solid. As for him being conpared to a tailed beast it's actually when he's fused with Samehada.

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I put it to you again Kakashi has 3 stamina stat and Naruto has a 5 stamina stat and 4 times Kakashi's reserves. Mathematics agrees with me and you've got nothing to negate that.

What? :lol Either way:

Ebisu: Ninjutsu- 4, Taijutsu- 3.5, Genjutsu- 3.5
Ibiki: Taijutsu- 3.5, Genjutsu- 4.5

Ebisu 3 stats above average, Ibiki 2 stats yet they aren't Jonin but special Jonin. :lol

Your claim: Kurenai has other skills of a high level that's why she's not a special Jonin. So why doesn't this apply to Ebisu and Ibiki?

I will agree with you for the moment.

Ebisu is a specialist in teaching, Ibiki a specialist in interrogation, Tokuma Hyuga is a specialist in tracking and Raido is a specialist in assassination. Their stats in Nin, tai and gen don't determine their Special Jonin status but probably the fact that most if not all their techniques/Jutsu are heavily/completely involved in their fields

I gather your measure for somebody being a Tokujo is that their techniques specialise in their field.

This is just you trying to manipulate stuff into your favor now. According to you, Kurenai has other skills of a high level and that's why she's Jonin but Hizashi only has 1 high ability (according to your standards) and isn't a Special Jonin. His death doesn't matter as he wasn't assigned the rank after his death :lol

Using the same measure of specialisation you've laid out, please explain why Hizashi who has gf/thaijutsu and Guy who's field is thaijutsu aren't Tokujo.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MightGai]

Geez ... Tokubetsu Jonin, Special Jonin or whatever are those that excel in an area as stated above, not because the DB adds or substracts a point or two out of their stats. Ebisu is such due to his "teaching" skills, Ibiki due to interrogation, so on so on. One guy could have 5/5/5 in Nin, Tai and Genjutsu, or Intelligence, stamina and whatever, and that wouldn't make them "special jonin". It's those that specialize in an area beyond combat.

It's like in Hunter X Hunter, where you have food/gourmet hunters, terrorist hunters, virus hunters, archaeological, beast, blacklist, "something" hunters, etc. They specialize in something besides their Nen combat skills (Manipulation, Conjuration, Emission, etc).

OT: High chunnin at best.

 

[Jinrou]

The databook takes base Stamina into account so wouldn't include yin seal as part of the stat or tailed beast chakra modes/cloaks etc. And what's wrong with guy having chakra = to chakra monsters. We dont have stats for Ay to make a valid measure of his chakra reserves and base Kisame's stats are solid. As for him being conpared to a tailed beast it's actually when he's fused with Samehada.

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I put it to you again Kakashi has 3 stamina stat and Naruto has a 5 stamina stat and 4 times Kakashi's reserves. Mathematics agrees with me and you've got nothing to negate that. ???

You only said a few posts ago that we have to use Naruto logic? Anyway [

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]. That's a 30% Kisame clone being compared to Naruto. Gai his teach isn't even put in the equation. Stats between characters are not to be compared. But you implying Gai is in the same chakra level as the chakra monsters isn't surprising anyway.

I gather your measure for somebody being a Tokujo is that their techniques specialise in their field.

Using the same measure of specialisation you've laid out, please explain why Hizashi who has gf/thaijutsu and Guy who's field is thaijutsu aren't Tokujo.

Thanks in advance.

Common sense. I refuse to believe someone who chastises other members for their comprehension can be this slow. Figure it out.

Hint: Nin, Tai and Gen aren't occupation fields but techniques. That's why none of the Special Jonin are specialists in Nin, Tai or Gen but Teaching, Interrogation, tracking etc. Actual job fields outside of combat.

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[Nerosmoke]

the 4 are jonin level and kimimaro is kage level.

 

[salamander uchiha]

You only said a few posts ago that we have to use Naruto logic? Anyway [

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]. That's a 30% Kisame clone being compared to Naruto. Gai his teach isn't even put in the equation. Stats between characters are not to be compared. But you implying Gai is in the same chakra level as the chakra monsters isn't surprising anyway.

Agreed that's pre time skip Naruto dear and Kisame would be around that. It's a specific reference to a specific amount of chakra. Guy has more than that so of course he wouldn't be conpared to it. Not being compared doesn't negate him having the chakra reserves though so I don't know what your getting at.
Mu advice stop with the excuses and just accept the facts.

Common sense. I refuse to believe someone who chastises other members for their comprehension can be this slow. Figure it out.

I asked you since you seem to be the one touting the criteria for it.

Hint: Nin, Tai and Gen aren't occupation fields but techniques. That's why none of the Special Jonin are specialists in Nin, Tai or Gen but Teaching, Interrogation, tracking etc. Actual job fields outside of combat.

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Doesn't matter they would still have jutsu required to meet their specialised fields and they're all classified as ninja. Ninja don't only take combat based missions, they take all sorts of jobs, spying, teaching, guarding, scouting etc. You still haven't answered the question as to why those who have specialisation in one field are jonin and others are Tokujo.

Please comeback with the evidence and not just excuses.

 

[Jinrou]

Agreed that's pre time skip Naruto dear and Kisame would be around that. It's a specific reference to a specific amount of chakra. Guy has more than that so of course he wouldn't be conpared to it. Not being compared doesn't negate him having the chakra reserves though so I don't know what your getting at.
Mu advice stop with the excuses and just accept the facts.

Yeah, pre time skip Naruto. And if you tried to get your facts right, you'll remember Neji was never impressed by Naruto's own chakra but Kurama's chakra which was literally oozing out of him [

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]-[

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].

Bold. What an absolutely horrendous logic.. So Guy has more than that yet Neji says he hasn't seen anyone with that level since Naruto? What..? So Guy has the ability to skip a level of chakra quantity? :lol

I asked you since you seem to be the one touting the criteria for it.

Doesn't change the fact you can't apply common sense.

Doesn't matter they would still have jutsu required to meet their specialised fields and they're all classified as ninja. Ninja don't only take combat based missions, they take all sorts of jobs, spying, teaching, guarding, scouting etc. You still haven't answered the question as to why those who have specialisation in one field are jonin and others are Tokujo.

Please comeback with the evidence and not just excuses.

Becoming a Ninja is a job in itself but then there are Ninja's who would have skills that are best suited to certain fields like Teaching, Interrogation, Proctors, Tracking, Assassination, Cipher, Communications etc [

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]

Those are then categorized as Special Jonin but it does not mean that they specialize in only one technique in Nin, Tai and Gen especially when we've seen commendable overall stats in special Jonin like Ebisu, Ibiki, Genma and Anko.

It's a shame you are unable to deduce this and need a conclusion that can be arrived at pretty easily with common sense to be slapped in your face.

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Translation:

Spoiler

Advisors

Help the Hokage to guide the village!

The two advisors – Mitokado Homura & Utatane Koharu – both lived though the war along with the Third Hokage. Their immense experience and knowledge help the Hokage rule well.

Anbu Black Ops

Special operations for the Hokage!

The Anbu are the most secret and elite ninja. They specialise in spying and assassination, and other difficult missions. Their actions and faces are hidden in secrecy. The Hokage selects them personally, regardless of age or gender, and their orders come directly from him.

Like a flash of light, their deadly techniques easily break through enemy defences!

Medical Corps

Incomparable skills support those in battle!

The medical team cooperates with ordinary doctors, learning knowledge and skills that allow them to provide emergency back-up in battle. They also develop new techniques and medicines, research diseases and the human body. By the time they reach the rank of jounin their healing skills are near godly.

They can make medical decisions from the smallest amount of information. Their care is precise and swift.

Operations Unit

The backbone of Konoha!

In other words, regular ninja teams. Operations teams or individuals handle the major of missions the village receives, as well as education and other business. But when the world turns toward war, their knowledge and strength become weapons, and they concentrate on battle.

Ranks
Ability and unique skills determine a shinobi’s title!!

Konoha ninja are divine into five main ranks. These are given out based on raw strength and capability, and each rank has different duties and missions.

Jounin

The heart of the village, with superhuman skills!!

These ninja have reached the peak of the shinobi forces through knowledge and courage. Their purpose – to demonstrate their incredible skills on the front lines, guiding and training young shinobi, and passing on their skills. As long as the jounin stand firm, Konoha will not fall.

When a jounin activated a jutsu the air trembles and your blood will freeze!!

Incredible speed and strength define taijutsu. Skills honed to perfection can knock enemy ninja right through walls!!

Special Jounin

Specialists in their fields!!

Special Jounin are ranked between jounin and chuunin, and performed assigned missions according to their specialities. These missions are not limited to spying, torture/interrogation and the like, but extend to education or research, with each assignment matching their skills and knowledge.

Special Jounin Morino Ibiki. Those countless scars symbolize his resolve and dedication!

If you still cannot understand, then you clearly can't be helped.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Yeah, pre time skip Naruto. And if you tried to get your facts right, you'll remember Neji was never impressed by Naruto's own chakra but Kurama's chakra which was literally oozing out of him [

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]-[

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].

Not really Neji was more shcoked that Naruto had opened his points which he'd sealed. So that point your trying to get at is non existent.

Bold. What an absolutely horrendous logic.. So Guy has more than that yet Neji says he hasn't seen anyone with that level since Naruto? What..? So Guy has the ability to skip a level of chakra quantity? :lol

Yeah hes comparing it to Naruto's who's were similar to Kisame's 30% clone why would he compare them to something greater. Tge statemenr was for us to understand the reserves of Kisame's clone nothing more.

Doesn't change the fact you can't apply common sense.

Since thats the beat you have concession accepted.

Becoming a Ninja is a job in itself but then there are Ninja's who would have skills that are best suited to certain fields like Teaching, Interrogation, Proctors, Tracking, Assassination, Cipher, Communications etc [

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]

Those are then categorized as Special Jonin but it does not mean that they specialize in only one technique in Nin, Tai and Gen especially when we've seen commendable overall stats in special Jonin like Ebisu, Ibiki, Genma and Anko.

It's a shame you are unable to deduce this and need a conclusion that can be arrived at pretty easily with common sense to be slapped in your face.

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Translation:


If you still cannot understand, then you clearly can't be helped.

I do understand but thats still stupid since Jonin would still be given missions that are suitbale for their skillset(strengths) to be best utilised. Oh and by the way Ebisu would be classed as a Jonin under the definition provided but is still a Tokujo.

All I'm reading are excuses, either that or kishi didn't give a f.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Jinrou]

Not really Neji was more shcoked that Naruto had opened his points which he'd sealed. So that point your trying to get at is non existent.

So the chakra mode Naruto that fought Neji at the end has the same chakra volume as base Naruto? Okay man :lol

Yeah hes comparing it to Naruto's who's were similar to Kisame's 30% clone why would he compare them to something greater. Tge statemenr was for us to understand the reserves of Kisame's clone nothing more.

What incredible logic. :lol If there were people with chakra greater than that volume, then he wouldn't say "never seen anyone but Naruto" as if Guy has more than that, he would easily have that same amount he's currently looking at. [

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] C'mon man.. you troll better than this. :lol

I do understand but thats still stupid since Jonin would still be given missions that are suitbale for their skillset(strengths) to be best utilised. Oh and by the way Ebisu would be classed as a Jonin under the definition provided but is still a Tokujo.

All I'm reading are excuses, either that or kishi didn't give a f.

Thanks for your time.

Nice backtrack with the bold, Jonin can pretty much handle most types of missions since their skills aren't suited to a particular field unlike someone like Ibiki whose techniques might focus mostly on how to get a captive to squeal or Ebisu who has more knowledge and skills that will be best suited to teaching.. That you are unable to comprehend these simple things doesn't mean Kishi didn't give af :lol

 

[salamander uchiha]

So the chakra mode Naruto that fought Neji at the end has the same chakra volume as base Naruto? Okay man :lol

Yes unless you can prove otherwise.

What incredible logic. :lol If there were people with chakra greater than that volume, then he wouldn't say "never seen anyone but Naruto" as if Guy has more than that, he would easily have that same amount he's currently looking at. [

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] C'mon man.. you troll better than this. :lol

Emphasis on this much did you expect him to say but Guy sensei has more Be real Jinrou that's not how manga work with limited space to write your given limited information (relevant).

Nice backtrack with the bold, Jonin can pretty much handle most types of missions since their skills aren't suited to a particular field unlike someone like Ibiki whose techniques might focus mostly on how to get a captive to squeal or Ebisu who has more knowledge and skills that will be best suited to teaching.. That you are unable to comprehend these simple things doesn't mean Kishi didn't give af :lol

There's no back track, you just don't have an answer and all I'm reading are more excuses without you addressing the underlying points.

 

[Jinrou]

Yes unless you can prove otherwise.

:lol

Spoiler

The databook takes base Stamina into account so wouldn't include yin seal as part of the stat or tailed beast chakra modes/cloaks etc

Emphasis on this much did you expect him to say but Guy sensei has more Be real Jinrou that's not how manga work with limited space to write your given limited information (relevant).

If he has only seen Naruto with that much then Gai and everyone else he had seen at that point doesn't have that much less more than that. You've tried to manipulate facts better than this Salamander Uchiha. :lol

There's no back track, you just don't have an answer and all I'm reading are more excuses without you addressing the underlying points.

You only need to read your previous posts before the one i said you backtracked and are we having reading problems now? If you have trouble understanding my post, then the DB shouldn't be difficult eh?

Special Jounin

Specialists in their fields!!

Special Jounin are ranked between jounin and chuunin, and performed assigned missions according to their specialities. These missions are not limited to spying, torture/interrogation and the like, but extend to education or research, with each assignment matching their skills and knowledge.

Special Jounin Morino Ibiki. Those countless scars symbolize his resolve and dedication!

 

[salamander uchiha]

:lol

Concession accepted since you couldn't provide the evidence.

If he has only seen Naruto with that much then Gai and everyone else he had seen at that point doesn't have that much less more than that. You've tried to manipulate facts better than this Salamander Uchiha. :lol

I'm not manipulating anything the facts are the facts.

You only need to read your previous posts before the one i said you backtracked and are we having reading problems now? If you have trouble understanding my post, then the DB shouldn't be difficult eh?

I did and your quoting a partial and didn't address anything I've said or asked for. Why're you wasting my time. The reason I engaged in this discussion was so I could perhaps gain more insight into what and how a person becomes a Tokujo. But all you've done is show us/me that you don't even know yourself. The only certainty is they have a specialisation and are ranked below a jonin and above a chunin. Therefore they'd have corresponding skill levels above a chunin below a jonin in general except in their specialised field.

 

[Jinrou]

Concession accepted since you couldn't provide the evidence.

Pathetic but expected. :lol

I'm not manipulating anything the facts are the facts.

Sure you aren't. Anyway, this is fact: If he has only seen Naruto with that much then Gai and everyone else he had seen at that point doesn't have that much less more than that.

I did and your quoting a partial and didn't address anything I've said or asked for. Why're you wasting my time. The reason I engaged in this discussion was so I could perhaps gain more insight into what and how a person becomes a Tokujo. But all you've done is show us/me that you don't even know yourself. The only certainty is they have a specialisation and are ranked below a jonin and above a chunin. Therefore they'd have corresponding skill levels above a chunin below a jonin in general except in their specialised field.

They are below Jonin because their skills/knowledge are best suited to a particular occupational field. Raido specializes in killing important figures. Does that mean he can't engage regular Shinobi in a fight? No. Does that mean his other stats are low? No. If not, he and Special Jonin Genma who took on the sound 4 in CS2 (that increases their own stats) without Chakra [

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] wouldn't have almost won.

Even if you find it difficult to comprehend all this, the scan and translation i posted is pretty self explanatory if you take the time to read the Operations Unit and Special Jounin part. You can't blame 'excuses' or 'kishi' for poor comprehension on your part :lol