What is uncool or lame about kindness or being civilized? Why like rudeness?

[cafe123]

It's a fictional story, we like interesting characters with more character to them than typical-shonen-protagonist Naruto.

 

[KingHashirama]

Oh also, continuing the post. People who tend to get jealous of the likes of Naruto/Hashirama/Jiraiya/Rikudou and so on, tend to side with their "arch-rivals" who are usually inferior to those guys. That is why you ahve more Danzo fans than Hiruzen fans. More Madara fans than Hashirama fans. More Orochimaru fans than Jiraiya fans. and so on.


^^ all that is personal experience also. We somehow think that liking the "underdog" is something great.. in reality it just creates flame wars and etc. I mean even "wwe" got ruined cause of this wanking about underdogs . X_X.


Again, i'm speaking from personal experience. I have experienced too many things to "like" characters like Danzo/Madara/Obito/Orochimaru/Kabuto...

 

[chaos control]

It's a fictional story, we like interesting characters with more character to them than typical-shonen-protagonist Naruto.

How is being a jerk having "more character"? Besides, that jerk persona is just as typical. Examples: Vegeta, Piccolo, probably this Aizen fellow, etc...

 

[cafe123]

How is being a jerk having "more character"? Besides, that jerk persona is just as typical. Examples: Vegeta, Piccolo, probably this Aizen fellow, etc...

I don't think it's debatable that Sasuke has more personality than Naruto, Naruto is full of cliches, boring, one dimensional. I do not agree with the comparisons either, I don't think Sasuke is like them apart from being Naruto's rival.

 

[awesomeseimei]

Yup it always bothers me to see people calling Danzo/Orochimaru/Madara/Obito/Kabuto and etc all great characters.. while on the other hand Naruto and Hashirama and others who have their personality are called shitty characters. However, when we look at the content of the characters those 2 are superior characters to the above mentioned villains.


Reason being is jealousy, people usually get jealous of someone who is liked and powerful and so on. Its simply how some people work.

But apparently being "rude" and "mad" and "killing people" all the time is what makes a "realistic character". My only question is which reality are these people living in?

I too dislike it when people bring up the "realistic character" argument. Like I said, in fiction we can enjoy things that would be frowned upon or even unforgivable in our reality, because it's well, fiction. We can project one onto another but not treat them as the same thing.

I mean, if a villainous character is interesting, well-written and poses a challenge to the heroes, plus serves to provide good moral conflict, why not like such a character? You'd hate a real person like that, of course, but you can enjoy them in fiction - not because they are a good person, but as a good character, i. e. literary device.

 

[SharinganisOP]

If that was the case he could simply say, "The genjutsu was casted, but I don't want you to participate in this fight for your own safety".

Instead of basically saying, "You're a stupid fodder, so shut up".

Do you see what I mean? That is why I doubt that this was Sasuke trying to "protect his friends".

The situation, all the people of the world in a position where they will be killed, of course will have an effect on what he is going to say. I understand being nice, but at time like this he has to be extremely serious if he wants everyone to live.

Also you can't forget that Sasuke has been like that with his feelings ever since his clan was killed. He has a bunch of emotional damage, and I would say it's hard for him to show his true feelings especially regarding his friends especially after all the bad things he has done.

 

[KingHashirama]

I too dislike it when people bring up the "realistic character" argument. Like I said, in fiction we can enjoy things that would be frowned upon or even unforgivable in our reality, because it's well, fiction. We can project one onto another but not treat them as the same thing.

I mean, if a villainous character is interesting, well-written and poses a challenge to the heroes, plus serves to provide good moral conflict, why not like such a character? You'd hate a real person like that, of course, but you can enjoy them in fiction - not because they are a good person, but as a good character, i. e. literary device.

Not really, a villain is usually created for the people to see how terrible society and etc can be. Sure you can choose to like a villain.. but that is not why author's create villains.

thinking someone is a good character =/= liking them.

 

[chaos control]

The situation, all the people of the world in a position where they will be killed, of course will have an effect on what he is going to say. I understand being nice, but at time like this he has to be extremely serious if he wants everyone to live.

Also you can't forget that Sasuke has been like that with his feelings ever since his clan was killed. He has a bunch of emotional damage, and I would say it's hard for him to show his true feelings especially regarding his friends especially after all the bad things he has done.

The alternate way to say it that I brought up is not sugar coating it in the slightest and it maintains all seriousness. It has nothing to do with showing emotion. It is really just telling it like it is.

Calling Sakura useless is not being serious. That is just being a jerk. Don't mix the two up.

Serious is saying "Don't get involved in this fight or you will die". Does that sound sugarcoated or emotional to you?

Being a jerk is: "You're useless" (A line which really only wasted time since he proceeded to answer the question anyway)

 

[Kαmi]

You remind me of UssJ.

He's like a mini clone of him. I'm liking the Deidara ava and sig btw

OT: Because people can like whatever they want for whatever reasons they choose.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Because while a character who is nice can be good there needs to be someone who can provide a balance.

 

[awesomeseimei]

Not really, a villain is usually created for the people to see how terrible society and etc can be. Sure you can choose to like a villain.. but that is not why author's create villains.

thinking someone is a good character =/= liking them.

You think authors can't enjoy writing villains? But well, to each their own. I don't see why I can't like a character for how they are written, even if I don't agree with their actions - or rather wouldn't if they were real. I don't even agree with my faves' actions quite often, yet I still like them for some reason.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

I too dislike it when people bring up the "realistic character" argument. Like I said, in fiction we can enjoy things that would be frowned upon or even unforgivable in our reality, because it's well, fiction. We can project one onto another but not treat them as the same thing.

I mean, if a villainous character is interesting, well-written and poses a challenge to the heroes, plus serves to provide good moral conflict, why not like such a character? You'd hate a real person like that, of course, but you can enjoy them in fiction - not because they are a good person, but as a good character, i. e. literary device.

You're not supposed to think a villain is good,if that happens then the writer has failed in making him/her unlikable.You can be a fan of that villain but by all definitions they can't be "good" in any way.

 

[chaos control]

I don't think it's debatable that Sasuke has more personality than Naruto, Naruto is full of cliches, boring, one dimensional. I do not agree with the comparisons either, I don't think Sasuke is like them apart from being Naruto's rival.

How does Sasuke have more personality? He is singular in his goal. Obtain retribution for his clan (whether it be by killing Itachi or crushing Konoha) and prevent other cases like this from happening (by becoming hokage). In the end, all of his actions and motivations revolve around what happened to his clan. Logically, that would technically be more "one dimensional".

Being a jerk is not the same as having more personality and it is just as cliche. Naruto on the other hand has the painful past of being shunned and desiring recognition. He also was developed by the pain of loss (like when Jiraiya and Neji died). He learned to look at different perspectives (like when Son Goku corrected him). So on.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

You think authors can't enjoy writing villains? But well, to each their own. I don't see why I can't like a character for how they are written, even if I don't agree with their actions - or rather wouldn't if they were real. I don't even agree with my faves' actions quite often, yet I still like them for some reason.

There's a stark difference in a writer getting enjoyment from writing a villain and how that villain comes across to the audience.

 

[FoolzBeWeary]

Sasuke sucks as a character in my eyes because he can't get over the past and crys about something someone else did and makes it rule his life. Sorry but he is a weak character design IMO

 

[chaos control]

Because while a character who is nice can be good there needs to be someone who can provide a balance.

Define balance. If a nice person can still have the rationality/intelligence while still being powerful and able to get the job done, then that is golden and there is no need for rude people.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Define balance. If a nice person can still have the rationality/intelligence while still being powerful and able to get the job done, then that is golden and there is no need for rude people.

Balance in terms of variety in both story terms and character,having a nice character by him/herself tends to get boring after a while.It's why the Squidwards,Vegetas,and Sasukes exist in fiction.

 

[chaos control]

You're not supposed to think a villain is good,if that happens then the writer has failed in making him/her unlikable.You can be a fan of that villain but by all definitions they can't be "good" in any way.

There is nothing wrong with a villain being seen as good if a writer is basing the conflict on philosophical issues like how to solve the problems caused by war. Madara for instance, was a good guy, yet he was still an epic and very effective antagonist! He actually succeeded in casting infinite tsukuyomi!

It is only bad if you are trying to make a DBZ style villain that is just evil for no reason (like Frieza), yet they appear to be good.

 

[awesomeseimei]

You're not supposed to think a villain is good,if that happens then the writer has failed in making him/her unlikable.You can be a fan of that villain but by all definitions they can't be "good" in any way.

That's what I said. I never claimed that any of the villains I liked were justified in their actions - that's why I dislike the way Kishi throws those redemptions around. I don't treat characters in the same way as real people.

 

[HiddenSound]

He's like a mini clone of him. I'm liking the Deidara ava and sig btw

OT: Because people can like whatever they want for whatever reasons they choose.

Loser/Science/Mau5 gave me the sig, so I figured I'd change the avi too. Doesn't hurt that Deidara is easily one of my favorites lol
OT: Sasuke wasn't wrong when he said all that anyway lol