Was Danzo good or bad?

[-Spoiler-]

A necessary evil, like Amanda Waller or Lex Luthor.

 

[Chibiusa]

Totally surprised this didn't become a hot thread. This is usually a popular topic

OT: He did what he had to do and wasn't afraid to make sacrifices. A true shinobi

 

[Gaara Of The Death]

I don't think so. In a profession defined by murder, torture, deception, thievery and manipulation without guilt, is there really a "worst" way? Danzo didn't do anything that other shinobi don't regularly do, he just did it against the same path of the protagonists so he looks like a bad guy.

Any other shinobi wouldn't let their village get destroyed just so they could become Hokage.​

 

[ClydeFrog]

That's the genius of this series, no one is evil, everyone just believes whole heartedly in their own ideals.

 

[Byakusharinnegan]

That's the genius of this series, no one is evil, everyone just believes whole heartedly in their own ideals.

No, here's the thing. I don't like it when people realize it while reading this series, yet think Naruto is the only series to have done this. Look around you; even the words Evil and Good are entirely subjective in their use, because in the end the so-called Antagonists of fiction and life believe in their ideals, while at some point the Protagonists believe those ideals are wrong.

I honestly felt that Death Note did a better job of expressing this than Naruto, though every work of fiction with contrasting characters does it: everybody has ideals, and everybody works for their own. The Joker, for example, believed in a fair world and saw chaos as a route to that, in a broken summary. Another goal of his was to get Batman to break his only rule by killing him, in a setting where even if he died he won.

Danzo's Machiavellian principles are frowned upon by the who consider Sasuke to be a 'villain', though that doesn't make them anymore than the ideals of a man who's final goal was peace.

 

[HiddenSound]

Any other shinobi wouldn't let their village get destroyed just so they could become Hokage.​

Not true .

 

[Xāvî1]

he was the worst actually

 

[shelke]

Necessary Evil is a nice twist on Evil these days. You commit evil acts and then add the nationalistic 'necessary' agenda to it. Disgusting is the appropriate terminology for it.

 

[Gaara Of The Death]

Not true .

Name me a someone who not evil which would let that happen.​

 

[itachi uchiha fiance]

he is good bt his ways are wrong

 

[iKaras]

Bad guy don't exist in the NV. That world is too perfect to have a character as such.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

i like how anyone who merely claims they want peace is automatically some dark anti hero whos a necessary evil.
we dont exactly know what danzo's "peace world" will look like but i think it would look like a Orwellian militaristic imperialist nightmare with hundreds of secret police roaming the streets.

Neither, he did bad things for the greater good of the village

like abandoning his soldiers to do a certain death mission alone, abandoning the viillage to get mostly massacred, and intentionally antagonising/creating enemies for the leaf?

He didn't seek to control the world nor killed people just because he felt like

um yes he did. he made a whole speech about uniting the world under his rule and we know what kind of rule that will be. an army of brainwashed emotionless slaves policing the masses.
oh and thats another thing. you say hes neutral yet he brutally brainwashes kids and enslaves them to his rule.

on the other hand, to protect the ninja world

so what, protecting the ninja world means he needs to brainwash kids and let his city get killed including thousands of civilians?

If he needs a label, I'd call him a dark anti-hero.

so most dark anti heroes you know brutally butcher people, pillage dead bodies, steal eyes, participate in a mass murderer's schemes, allow thousands of civilians to be butchered etc?

He had the best interest of the village at heart he simply went about it the wrong way.

wrong. he is a violent selfish amoral mass murderer who had the worst intentions possible (starting a war so he can rule the ashes) and let his village die to further this

As for the manga, I still think he's an *******, but he genuinely cares about Konoha and wants to keep it safe at all costs

which includes letting it get massacred and burnt to the ground apparently. and pillage dead bodies. and brainwash kids to be emotionless slaves answerable only to him. and plotting alongside orochimaru and helping with his experiments.

Both the way Hiruzen and Danzo run things have gotten people killed, so who is to say Danzo is going about maintaining peace the wrong way? Maybe the sacrifices he makes/wants to make are necessary.

its necessary to let thousands of civilians get massacred so you can launch a coup on your superior and take over whatever's left?

causing suffering to pursue a greater cause isnt necessarily bad,enjoying the suffering you cause is.

lololol. hitler believed in his cause. so hes not evil in your definition. someone can still be amoral, ruthless, apathetic and brutal without being outright sadistic.

In a profession defined by murder, torture, deception, thievery and manipulation without guilt, is there really a "worst" way? Danzo didn't do anything that other shinobi don't regularly do

wrong. from what ive seen, danzo was probably the founding father of the whole torture and brainwashing thing in konoha. hiruzen and tobirama certainly wouldnt have founded it.
and its danzo who doesnt make any effort to change that, instead taking all the worst aspects of modern shinobi and trying to rule over them with complete brainwashing and enslavement.
not to mention working with oro when everyone else is completely horrified and disgusted by him

e was the guy that nobody likes or wants to accept but everyone needs.

so thye need an amoral brainwashing psychopath who only makes everything worse whenever hes around and even plotted a coup on tsunade because he simply doesnt approve of hiruzen and therefore her?
how come uchihas are condemned site-wise but danzo's a nice little lamb whos just trying to serve the greater good? they plotted the same exact thing. uchihas however did it for better treatment of their clan. danzo wants his hands on power.

He blurs the line between good and evil completely. Necessary evils for desired well-being of the village.

you could ahve applied that to many other characters. sasuke, kimimaro, nagato, but not fukin danzo who is fine with orochimaru despite everyone else being disgusted, and lets his village be destroyed for the chance at a power grab.

I personally think he's above good and evil as a character.

no ones above that except maybe juubi. we can certainly comprehend amoral murdering.

was so cocky he got solo'd by sasugay

how was that being cocky? sauske simply was able to find a counter

It's like asking if Madara is good or bad people who kill anyone/innocent

lol and how do you define innocent

The things he done was only because no one else had the resolve to do so.

actually its because everyone thought those things are too brutal and insane

He just went about it the wrong way because he's a 'by any means" time of guy.

JUST? theres no just about it. "the wrong way" involved mass murdering, genocide, brainwashing, attempted assasination of legitimate government etc

they had they're reasons but they killed people all the same.

if thats the case then no one is evil. but the narutoverse clearly judges sick mofos like oro as evil. meaning theres some morality here.

The world could be in flames and he wouldn't give a damn as long as his people are okay.

funny, thats itachis personality

o i don't recall any of them killing innocents..

you dont recall itachi butchering uchiha kids and helping akatsuki gather nukes to use on the world at large?

who was the necessary kind of evil for Konoha

how the hell is evil necessary

OT: He did what he had to do and wasn't afraid to make sacrifices. A true shinobi

wrong. he did what he felt lilke and is a complete monstrous evil mass murderer. a true terrorist and tyrant

. But one could say he's a horrible tyrant while another could just as easily say he was a good man. That's what I love about him.

the person saying hes a good man is a moron with some screwed up morals. thats the difference

no one is evil, everyone just believes whole heartedly in their own ideals.

hidan. orochimaru. kabuto till very recently.

Bad guy don't exist in the NV.

so hidan is just an innocent little lamb who was tricked! i knew it

 

[RicardoA]

um yes he did. he made a whole speech about uniting the world under his rule and we know what kind of rule that will be. an army of brainwashed emotionless slaves policing the masses.
oh and thats another thing. you say hes neutral yet he brutally brainwashes kids and enslaves them to his rule.

so what, protecting the ninja world means he needs to brainwash kids and let his city get killed including thousands of civilians?

He only killed people who posed a threat to Konoha and the ninja world. Characters who killed others "because they felt like" and actualy enjoyed it are for example Hidan, who was a complete psycho (and obviously mentally ill) and CE Gaara.

They were brainwashed for a reason. Even the normal Anbu is all about the mission, Danzo simply was more strict with the rules and took maximum precaution with his soldiers. No one else would be brainwashed nor killed as long as they don't mess with Konoha.

@bold: I'm pretty sure kids aren't seen the same way in narutoverse as in real life. They train 6-yo children (possibly even younger) to learn how to fight, defend themselves and kill if they have to. He simply does what everyone else in his world his doing.
About letting the village getting destroyed i agree he crossed the line, on the other hand it was nothing but a method to achieve a position that would help him completing his objectives: the protection of Konoha, which would eventually be rebuilt and Tsunade was protecting its people since the moment the invasion began, it was nothing that Konoha couldn't recover from. And after Tsunade was out of chakra, who says he wouldn't have come out? He only wanted the current Hokage to fall so that he could raise himself and lead Konoha.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

He only killed people who posed a threat to Konoha and the ninja world.

according to his judgement only.

He only wanted the current Hokage to fall

i love how yuo said that like its just some questionable anti heroic action by a protagonist. instead of a gross moral event horizon attempted coup by a power hungry psychopath

They were brainwashed for a reason.

yeah danzo wants total power over them

I'm pretty sure kids aren't seen the same way in narutoverse as in real life. They train 6-yo children (possibly even younger) to learn how to fight, defend themselves and kill if they have to. He simply does what everyone else in his world his doing.

if necessary but most end up as genin doing menial tasks. even so its clearly ****ed up to remove them from choice and emotion altogether

About letting the village getting destroyed i agree he crossed the line, on the other hand it was nothing but a method to achieve a position that would help him completing his objectives: the protection of Konoha

hwo do you protect whats already been wiped out?

which would eventually be rebuilt

what, by a few hundred anbu? rivla nations would just finish them off.

 

[GhostProject]

Danzo is absolutely evil, he's more evil than Madara in my book.

His intentions may have been some sort of good, but his means to acquire it were anything but moral.

His solutions to internal and foreign social problems are killing, silencing, and genocide
He's willing to sacrifice anyone to achieve his goals, except himself
He's willing to sacrifice other's free will and choices to feed his "greater good"
He instigates war, as long as it means Konoha dominance
He brainwashes children. He uses them later in life.
He leads through misinformation and lies
Nationalism is his only moral compass

Sound familiar? Many of these could be said about the dictators of our world's past. They all seem to care more about the country than they do of its people.

Danzo is very evil. No one wants to live in a world where Danzo's vision is reality.

 

[RicardoA]

according to his judgement only.

i love how yuo said that like its just some questionable anti heroic action by a protagonist. instead of a gross moral event horizon attempted coup by a power hungry psychopath

yeah danzo wants total power over them

if necessary but most end up as genin doing menial tasks. even so its clearly ****ed up to remove them from choice and emotion altogether


hwo do you protect whats already been wiped out?

what, by a few hundred anbu? rivla nations would just finish them off.

That makes him someone with strong beliefs and ideals who acts in extreme ways to achieve his goals, not a heartless, cool-blooded, remorseless, evil character o>o

He isn't power hungry. Its all part of bigger plan: protecting Konoha and uniting the ninja world under his wing to make sure everything goes according to what he thinks its right. At worst he's a dictator, again, doesn't necessarily make him evil.

Ofc, they're his soldiers xD

Judging from our standards and values, yes. Judging from a narutoverse point of view, its probably not even considered extreme. Wasn't Itachi an Anbu at age 13 or something, under Hiruzen's command. Hiruzen, the guy who's all about peace and diplomacy.

Tsunade protected the villagers and shinobi althogether, he knew what was going on, he just wanted her to die like Hiruzen and then he would most likely tried to stop Pain himself like he tried to do against Sasuke and Obito.

We already saw how the village was rebuilt and no invasions occured. Ay already had summoned the other kages to talk about Akatsuki.


I don't think there's any point in discussing this when its all a matter of opinion, i don't see Danzo the same way but i accept your opinion on him :>

 

[sharingansennin]

Neither, he did bad things for the greater good of the village

wow really, ur gonna be that guy he helped himself, tried to have hiruzen assasinated to gain hokage he made itachi kill his entire clan he worked with OROCHIMARU on his experiments to become stronger. He ruined the lives of countless root members making them emotionless killing machines to help him. He corrupted Kakashi's mind to believe Hiruzen was evil.

 

[Draphsin]

He was trying to be good but was really, really bad at it.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

That makes him someone with strong beliefs and ideals who acts in extreme ways to achieve his goals

the "strong beliefs" was in a militaristic imperialistic police state run exclusively by him. and its the extreme part that makes him cold and monstrous

He isn't power hungry. Its all part of bigger plan: protecting Konoha and uniting the ninja world under his wing to make sure everything goes according to what he thinks its right

ie: to have all the power to himself. a great man would get the objectively best person possible in charge ie kakashi or shikaku. danzo is arrogant self serving and genocidal. he helped DESTROY konoha and tried to assasinate his superior officer and rightful elected leader.
overthrowing tsunade might have made sense if she was a corrupt dictator truly hurtful to konoha's cause. but in the end kiling her was just to justify danzo establishing his brutal police state run by brainwashed slaves who can only answer to him.

At worst he's a dictator, again, doesn't necessarily make him evil.

no, murder, genocide, attempted coups, treason and brainwashing makes him evil.
all so he can rule the world, rather than someone who'd actualy be loved and hold the world's best interest at heart.

Judging from a narutoverse point of view, its probably not even considered extreme. Wasn't Itachi an Anbu at age 13 or something, under Hiruzen's command. Hiruzen, the guy who's all about peace and diplomacy.

it is. if nothings extreme in narutoverse how come guys like kinkaku and sasuke are universally reviled. because some things arent acceptable even for them

he just wanted her to die like Hiruzen and then he would most likely tried to stop Pain himself

rather than joining forces and fighting pain together....danzo is a classic example of will of fire's hypocrisy. it only is there to justify brutal crimes in the name of delusional dogma.

We already saw how the village was rebuilt and no invasions occured.

because konoha got revived back to its fullest with only the people in comas not waking up immediately.

 

[Conspirator.]

Danzo was a brutal power hungry thug. Only his moronic fanboys say otherwise. Let's face the facts: Shisui was planning to stop the coup by using KA. This is a peaceful way of solving things.(and would have worked). But what does Danzo do? He steals Shisui's eye and claims it for himself. I have no doubt that he wanted the massacre to occur for his own selfish purposes(to get all those sharingans to control the 9 tails) The fact that he had dealings with Orochimaru and Obito(2 men who tried to destroy konoha) tells us what sort of person he is. On top of that, he was responsible for Nagato,Kabuto and Sasuke losing their minds and becoming murderes. I was extremely glad when Sasuke brutally murdered him-the look on his face was priceless!(and there was some poetic justice that it was Sasuke who murdered him.)