War Arc Kakashi vs Alive Minato

[Bogard]

We clearly see Sasuke

You must be registered for see links

The same way

You must be registered for see links

but couldn't do anything about it due to not being fast enough / exhaustion.

After the amaterasu shield, Raikage's stop made a noise. Besides, when you don't see someone infront of you, it's only natural to check your back

 

[Demonic.]

We clearly see Sasuke

You must be registered for see links

The same way

You must be registered for see links

but couldn't do anything about it due to not being fast enough / exhaustion.

It doesn't prove anything. If Ay wasn't in front of him he would look behind him. Plus Ay stopped to ready his hand to smack Sasuke. Ay could've just as easily not stopped and tackled Sasuke like he did Jugo.

 

[LuckyMan]

We clearly see Sasuke

You must be registered for see links

The same way

You must be registered for see links

but couldn't do anything about it due to not being fast enough / exhaustion.

Thats a physical reaction, he turned his head and saw him coming, not that anything he did would have mattered anyway though.

 

[Strict]

Stop wanking the Kamui.. teleportation IS instant, since no time passes when Minato moves from A to B.

You must be registered for see images

You see how Ay's fist is already before Minato's nose while he moves at lightning speed, and Minato suddenly appears at another spot? This IS instant.

 

[Black Wolf]

Sasuke shows no surprise at seeing him behind him.

But even so, Kakashi boasts superior reaction feats to that version of Sasuke, like mentally reacting to Madara and Gedo Damas.

 

[Black Wolf]

Thats a physical reaction, he turned his head and saw him coming, not that anything he did would have mattered anyway though.

Of course it would have mattered.

If he had chakra left, he could have used Kamui, either on Madara or on himself. Mentally reacting is easier than physically reacting. The fact that he turned his head means he could have had the capacity to use Kamui if he wasn't completely drained.

 

[Demonic.]

Except he doesn't have bad vision straight from the get-go, which your comment implied.

He used Kamui over a dozen times before his vision got bad. Does this match up begin with him already having used Kamui that many times? No.

If Kakashi's Kamui is as fast as you claim, how come both Obito and Kakashi needed to use it in order for Obito to be warped quick enough when Naruto was dying in the Kamui dimension? If they both needed to use it in order to be fast enough to escape the rods Madara was throwing, then FTG which is instant will definitely be faster than Kakashi's Kamui.

 

[Strict]

Fact is, Sasuke used the shield of black flames because he couldn't react to Ay. Ay was faster than Amaterasu itself.

And Kakashi boasts no superior reaction feats. Madara flew with a normal speed to get Kakashi's eye. Him reacting to Madara is a Shinobi feat like Tsunade reacting to a Kunai which Kabuto threw while she claimed to heal Orochimaru's arms. Shinobi have advanced senses. This is not a feat putting him above the likes of Sasuke.

 

[Black Wolf]

Madara flew with a normal tempo, despite running from his life after nearly dying against Sasuke and Naruto? Despite knowing his only chance at not dying was getting Kakashi's eye and getting his Rinnegan?

Reacting to a kunai thrown by Part I Kabuto =/= reacting to Juubi Jinchuuriki.

 

[Bronze]

Stop wanking the Kamui.. teleportation IS instant, since no time passes when Minato moves from A to B.

You must be registered for see images

You see how Ay's fist is already before Minato's nose while he moves at lightning speed, and Minato suddenly appears at another spot? This IS instant.

What? You didn't understand my post.

You say Madara summoning Gedo Mazo in front of Kakashi and Minato, then Kakashi wrapping its arm off, then Gedo Mazo appears behind Madara. Obviously that is a process and not instant.

I never said FTG is not instant. I said Minato can't react to Kamui, therefore his FTG will fail. He has no reaction feats indicating this.

Stop under rating Kamui. A Jutsu even Minato admitted to be superior to his.

 

[Kamui Sama]

kamui speed is as fast as kishi wants it to be in that particular situation

I'm 50/50 on Minato reacting to a Kamui right off the bat. If it works then its GG, if not then Kakashi stands little to no chance of using kamui again successfully

 

[Demonic.]

What? You didn't understand my post.

You say Madara summoning Gedo Mazo in front of Kakashi and Minato, then Kakashi wrapping its arm off, then Gedo Mazo appears behind Madara. Obviously that is a process and not instant.

I never said FTG is not instant. I said Minato can't react to Kamui, therefore his FTG will fail. He has no reaction feats indicating this.

Stop under rating Kamui. A Jutsu even Minato admitted to be superior to his.

When the hell did Minato say that? And counter my post I made about Kakashi and Obito needing to use Kamui at the same time in order to be fast enough to avoid Madara from interrupting the warp? If they both needed to do it to interrupt a physical attack how is it faster than FTG which is instant?

 

[Bogard]

Why Kakashi debates always turn around kamui when he possess such a vast arsenal ninjutsu is beyond me

 

[Demonic.]

Why Kakashi debates always turn around kamui when he possess such a vast arsenal ninjutsu is beyond me

Kamui is Kakashi's only hope against Minato

 

[LuckyMan]

What? You didn't understand my post.

You say Madara summoning Gedo Mazo in front of Kakashi and Minato, then Kakashi wrapping its arm off, then Gedo Mazo appears behind Madara. Obviously that is a process and not instant.

I never said FTG is not instant. I said Minato can't react to Kamui, therefore his FTG will fail. He has no reaction feats indicating this.

Stop under rating Kamui. A Jutsu even Minato admitted to be superior to his.

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Kamui Sama]

Why Kakashi debates always turn around kamui when he possess such a vast arsenal ninjutsu is beyond me

none of his other jutsu will matter against Minato though. He is too fast and he is a sensor, meaning going underground and using clones to trick him won't work. Its either kamui gg or dead kakashi lol

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Why Kakashi debates always turn around kamui when he possess such a vast arsenal ninjutsu is beyond me

What other than kamui is he going to use that can actually work against minato?
Cmon bogard.

When facing broken techniques you use broken techniques, such is the life when being apart of broken tier.

 

[Bronze]

Why Kakashi debates always turn around kamui when he possess such a vast arsenal ninjutsu is beyond me

I could go to depth, but my laptop is broke.

When the hell did Minato say that? And counter my post I made about Kakashi and Obito needing to use Kamui at the same time in order to be fast enough to avoid Madara from interrupting the warp? If they both needed to do it to interrupt a physical attack how is it faster than FTG which is instant?

Go retread his fight against Obito. He says Kamui is better than his and Tobirama's. Obito teleported to the dimension using tangibility version. It's slower because he becomes physical. Like I said, in order for Minato to teleport, he needs to know what's coming. Kakashi's Kamui was fast enough to outspeed Obito's reactions. I have no reason to believe Minato can react to speed like that.

 

[Black Wolf]

This will be my last, comprehensive post regarding the topic. Refer to it for anything I have to say regarding this match-up; I'm done with bickering on an individual level.

1. I am not saying any fighter can surely win - please understand this. It only seems I am on Kakashi's side because I am mostly defending against fallacious arguments presented on Minato's behalf. I said it was a toss-up, and focusing on the idea that Minato outspeeding 8th grade Obito's Kamui does not provide definitive proof it could do the same to Kakashi's, which outsped 30 year old Obito's Kamui.

2. Minato admitted Obito's Kamui at age 14 pushed his Hiraishin to the limit; it came down to a split second, and Minato edged out. Minato also admitted that Kamui was better than Hiraishin. The reason Hiraishin ultimately prevailed in that scenario could very possibly be attributable with the fact that it was in the hands of an inexperienced fighter. In the hands of a more experienced fighter, what Minato said may possibly (not certainly) hold true. Kakashi's Kamui outsped the more experienced version of that 14 year old Obito's Kamui - the one Minato admitted pushed his Hiraishin to the limit, and admitted was a superior jutsu overall to his Hiraishin and Tobirama's.

3. The ability to react to Juubi Madara bum-rushing him combined with his ability to interrupt teleportating summons indicate the speed at which Kakashi could execute his Kamui is within the ballpark of Hiraishin. It is not superior, but should be comparable.

4. Kakashi's bad vision only was mentioned in his very last Kamui usage. If we are going to handicap Kakashi to the version he was in after two days and used god-knows-how-many Kamui, then do the same to all battledome characters. Minato's last moments alive were impaled on a claw with no chakra left. Jiraiya's last moment alive was impaled by half a dozen black rods and missing an arm. Itachi's last moments alive were spent blind and barely able to move.

That is literally all I have to say on the topic, and any quote I would hypothetically reply to someone with would only be a permutation of the above. Quote wars have no end and even when proved wrong, nobody will change their opinion due to the cyber high horse they are on, and I don't intend on turning this into a battle of attrition to see who has more spare time on their hands.

 

[Bogard]

none of his other jutsu will matter against Minato though. He is too fast and he is a sensor, meaning going underground and using clones to trick him won't work. Its either kamui gg or dead kakashi lol

I know but i just wanted to point it out because i don't find it fun to debate for Kakashi anymore exactly for this reason