War Arc Kakashi vs Alive Minato

[Black Wolf]

Red herring.

That Kamui's speed can vary, that is my point. Not only are you comparing different versions of it, you are comparing different users of it, and with each user comes varying level of skill.

If your assertion that all Kamui's are the same is true, then Kakashi's Kamui mastery should have been as fast as it is now from the moment he first used it. Since we see a blatant improvement in his usage of the technique, it is obvious that skill and experience can make the technique better.

 

[Bogard]

Well Minato already showed to move faster than both Kamuis in this war, so i don't understand the debate around whether he can dodge Kamui or not

 

[Strict]

That Kamui's speed can vary, that is my point. Not only are you comparing different versions of it, you are comparing different users of it, and with each user comes varying level of skill.

It depends on the amount of Chakra stored up. If he stores up more Chakra, he will be of course able to snipe a human in an instant; otherwise we will see even an object of the size of the Rasengan vanishing in the process [

You must be registered for see links

].

And if Minato is claimed to sense Chakra built ups in eyes, he will sense it as well with Kamui.

 

[Bronze]

Minato reacts to Ay, who is so fast that the Sharingan can't keep up with properly and you insist on Kamui, which is short-mid range with Kakashi's bad vision. The moment Kakashi will focus his Kamui on Minato, he will jump away. Easily. Kakashi has no chance. Minato spreads his Kunai across the area, stays on long range until Kakashi comes near a Kunai and uses Kagebunshin, which can also jump with Hiraishin and use Rasengan.

Kakashi has no chance.

Sasuke kept up with away just fine. His vision became bad when he started overusing it. No, Kakashi wrapped a process of summoning Jutsu (Gedo Mazo), and not to mention Minato has to see it and react first, which is e hard part. Kakashi's Kamui is almost impossible to react. You think Kakashi, hits student is unaware of the Kunai?

Minato has no chance.

 

[Demonic.]

It depends on the amount of Chakra stored up. If he stores up more Chakra, he will be of course able to snipe a human in an instant; otherwise we will see even an object of the size of the Rasengan vanishing in the process [

You must be registered for see links

].

And if Minato is claimed to sense Chakra built ups in eyes, he will sense it as well with Kamui.

Exactly and don't forget Minato can use shadow clones that use FTG as well. Kakashi can't distinguish.

 

[Black Wolf]

The gap between Part II Kakashi and War Arc Kakashi is not attributable to "chakra stored up." Kakashi powered up his Mangekyo for a good amount of time and still had immense trouble hitting Deidara. Current Kakashi was tearing off Gedo Mazo's arm mid teleportation with no warning, and couldn't have had any chakra built up. He literally went from three-tomoe to Mangekyo on the fly; there was no time for chakra to be stored.

Panels do not indicate time passed. The Kamui portal is shown to let the reader know Kamui is being used, and is present even when Obito and Kakashi use Kamui together, which is significantly faster than the normal Kamui. It is a visual indicator, not a measurement of time. When we don't see a portal, ala Kakashi warping Minato's Rasengan off his stomach, it is always explained in retrospect.

 

[Bogard]

It depends on the amount of Chakra stored up. If he stores up more Chakra, he will be of course able to snipe a human in an instant; otherwise we will see even an object of the size of the Rasengan vanishing in the process [

You must be registered for see links

].

And if Minato is claimed to sense Chakra built ups in eyes, he will sense it as well with Kamui.

Doesn't matter when you have this page:

You must be registered for see links

 

[Demonic.]

Sasuke kept up with away just fine. His vision became bad when he started overusing it. No, Kakashi wrapped a process of summoning Jutsu (Gedo Mazo), and not to mention Minato has to see it and react first, which is e hard part. Kakashi's Kamui is almost impossible to react. You think Kakashi, hits student is unaware of the Kunai?

Minato has no chance.

Sasuke kept up with Ay? Ay came from behind and Sasuke had to resort to an Amaterasu shield to keep him at bay. Karin even commented on this. Now i know you're crazy.

 

[Strict]

No, Kakashi wrapped a process of summoning Jutsu (Gedo Mazo)

That wasn't done in any process. Madara summoned Gedo Mazo at the location of Kakashi and Minato, as it came out of Obito. Then he used it a second time while Kakashi was using Kamui already, in order to bring it to his place. There is no process in teleporting, it is literally instant.

 

[Black Wolf]

The fact that Sasuke activated Amaterasu on his Susano'o meant he was able to keep up, at least visually. Him not being able to keep up physically does not mean he was unable to mentally react, and mental reaction is all that is necessary for Mangekyo techniques. They don't require the user to move.

 

[Demonic.]

The gap between Part II Kakashi and War Arc Kakashi is not attributable to "chakra stored up." Kakashi powered up his Mangekyo for a good amount of time and still had immense trouble hitting Deidara. Current Kakashi was tearing off Gedo Mazo's arm mid teleportation with no warning, and couldn't have had any chakra built up. He literally went from three-tomoe to Mangekyo on the fly; there was no time for chakra to be stored.

Panels do not indicate time passed. The Kamui portal is shown to let the reader know Kamui is being used, and is present even when Obito and Kakashi use Kamui together, which is significantly faster than the normal Kamui. It is a visual indicator, not a measurement of time. When we don't see a portal, ala Kakashi warping Minato's Rasengan off his stomach, it is always explained in retrospect.

If you're using those feats. Remember when he said, "I can't see too well."

 

[Black Wolf]

If you're using those feats. Remember when he said, "I can't see too well."

Oh, my bad.

In that case, please remember that Minato is impaled by the Kyuubi's claw and is moments away from taking his last breath. I wasn't aware we were using handicapped / exhausted versions of the characters.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Oh, my bad.

In that case, please remember that Minato is impaled by the Kyuubi's claw and is moments away from taking his last breath. I wasn't aware we were using handicapped / exhausted versions of the characters.

lmao XD

Not sure why people insist on handicapping characters instead of just using their prime states.

 

[Bronze]

That wasn't done in any process. Madara summoned Gedo Mazo at the location of Kakashi and Minato, as it came out of Obito. Then he used it a second time while Kakashi was using Kamui already, in order to bring it to his place. There is no process in teleporting, it is literally instant.

It's a process because 2 events have occurred. One is Kakashi wrapping Gedo Mazo and the other is Madara summoning it. Keep it in mind that summoning Jutsu is instant.

 

[Strict]

THERE IS NO MID TELEPORTATION.

Madara summoned Gedo Mazo out of Obito, thus it appeared before Kakashi and Minato. Kakashi then used Kamui to warp Gedo Mazo's head, and Madara used his Summoning Jutsu to bring it to his place, thus Kamui failed and ripped off its arm instead.

There is NO process of teleportation, it happens instantly. Ay moved with his max. speed towards Minato, Minato on the other hand didn't only teleport away, but in the SAME instant teleported back to Ay's back, while latter was still at his max. speed.

Minato >>> Kamui.

 

[Bogard]

The fact that Sasuke activated Amaterasu on his Susano'o meant he was able to keep up, at least visually. Him not being able to keep up physically does not mean he was unable to mentally react, and mental reaction is all that is necessary for Mangekyo techniques. They don't require the user to move.

Karin said he put up the amaterasu shield exactly because he couldn't follow. Karin's comment was Kishi's indirect comment to explain what happened to the reader

 

[Demonic.]

Oh, my bad.

In that case, please remember that Minato is impaled by the Kyuubi's claw and is moments away from taking his last breath. I wasn't aware we were using handicapped / exhausted versions of the characters.

It's not a handicap. Everytime he uses Mangekyo he gets more and more blind. Don't use fiction and say he uses Kamui without side effects either dude.

 

[Bronze]

THERE IS NO MID TELEPORTATION.

Madara summoned Gedo Mazo out of Obito, thus it appeared before Kakashi and Minato. Kakashi then used Kamui to warp Gedo Mazo's head, and Madara used his Summoning Jutsu to bring it to his place, thus Kamui failed and ripped off its arm instead.

There is NO process of teleportation, it happens instantly. Ay moved with his max. speed towards Minato, Minato on the other hand didn't only teleport away, but in the SAME instant teleported back to Ay's back, while latter was still at his max. speed.

Minato >>> Kamui.

Go and learn what instant is, as well as process.

How can the bold bad instant? Instant is something happens faster than anything, even light. You're basically saying, Kakashi wrapped instant. In other words, Minato can't react to it.

Don't care about those feats, because Ay is NOT faster than Kamui.

 

[Black Wolf]

We clearly see Sasuke

You must be registered for see links

The same way

You must be registered for see links

but couldn't do anything about it due to not being fast enough / exhaustion.

 

[Black Wolf]

It's not a handicap. Everytime he uses Mangekyo he gets more and more blind. Don't use fiction and say he uses Kamui without side effects either dude.

Except he doesn't have bad vision straight from the get-go, which your comment implied.

He used Kamui over a dozen times before his vision got bad. Does this match up begin with him already having used Kamui that many times? No.