Victim blaming 101

[Iruka]

Lightbringer I mean no personal offence by this but I think you should step back for a moment and refresh your opinion in light of new information. I don't believe you had thoroughly read-around this before you made the thread and you're holding onto the initial beliefs in spite of what others are offering.

How do you know no one else is demanding a raise? There have been others that have been fired for the same reason....

Going by the article you initially posted, there are two separate women in question. That isn't something you were aware of until it was pointed out. They were terminated for different reasons, one being an unprofessional piece of writing (though the employers are using other excuses I believe), the other for being absent 10 days of her 59 day employment. I may have missed any new sources you've posted, if not then I don't agree with this quote.

Do I believe she acted the right way? Well I think she could've handled the letter better, but she didn't cross the line to the point of making it justifiable to fire her.

We are offering our own subjective opinions. I am not objective and neither are you. I personally believe her termination was justified.

What the boss could have done? Well, for starters, not fire her. That's the last thing he should've done and it just proves her point even more.

The CEO in question has denied being personally involved in her termination. That may be damage control on his behalf so I will yield that.

When the boss is a billionaire paying a full time worker minimum wage, I think the blame could partially be his. Besides, people are entitled to a raise after a certain amount of time working there.

Talia Ben-Ora herself claims his net worth to be in the range of $111M-222M. People are entitled to a raise and that is something to be negotiated with the employer. I am doubting her negotiation skills based on this:

Ben-Ora said she had talked to her managers about a raise.

Then, she said, she decided to go public with her concerns.

"At first I sent a couple of tweets to Stoppelman," she said.

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A few of her tweets:

.@jeremys please let me earn a living wage. I promise I'll watch all your vlogs. just let me be able to pay my rent.

will i get fired for @'ing our ceo asking for a living wage? is public begging fireable or just not cute?

.@jeremys listen. boss. I have connections. I can get you on like 3, maybe 4 unknown podcasts. just let me be able to afford to buy bread.

.@jeremys it's wild to me, boss, that this is so hard to see/do:
fair wagesemployee retention competent employeeshappy customers??

.@jeremys anyway, fire me or ignore me. either way I'll keep on struggling all the same.

You and two other people aren't everyone. And those people are the same people that everyone else disagrees with. So pretty sure it's what I expected.

It's not fair to immediately write off the minority opinion, otherwise it's an uphill battle for those who actually do want to discuss this.

I genuinely haven't made up my mind on this. There is only so much reading I can do at once so I'm very likely to have missed something. I would be a fool to tell you to refresh your opinion without applying it to myself. If there is anything I ballsed up then please do point it out and I will reconsider my stance. At the moment I'm leaning towards this woman being sick of her job, somehow losing said job, and now she's trying to spin this into some well-intended martyr situation.

 

[Avani]

While at it I found another article which brought up some interesting points regarding this case:

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Different people, different outlook...I found some points regarding criticism valid. But that girl should have waited till she got a better job before writing funny articles taking pot shots on the company she worked with.
( Although even that might not go down well and put her new boss on guard).


Also:



5/5 entry level jobs migrate to where costs of living are lower. Have already announced we are growing EAT24 support in AZ for this reason.

— Jeremy Stoppelman (@jeremys) February 20, 2016


I guess if they are moving to an area where cost of living is lower - in the long run it would help some people out there.

 

[Iruka]

While at it I found another article which brought up some interesting points regarding this case:

You must be registered for see links

Different people, different outlook...

Thanks for sharing that Jean. My god, the opinion of someone on the opinion of another on the opinion of another is beginning to hurt my head. The top comment on that linked post, "I expect a 43 year old’s letter responding to this letter no later than Saturday, internet."

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Double post merge

I didn't bother to read the complete title. U_U I linked because I found some points regarding criticism valid. But that girl should have waited till she got a better job before writing funny articles taking pot shots on the company she worked with.
( Although even that might not go down well and put her new boss on guard).

You did well to avoid reading it.

This topic has become a bit complicated and I'm not sure what the thread is discussing anymore. Some parts are about whether they were right to terminate Talia, others about whether the minimum wage is fair, others about those who criticized Talia as entitled.

I'm glad you linked that article as it did give another opinion, though I found it a bit limited. The criticisms were directed at Stefanie Williams, the fellow writer who started the criticism movement. I'm still trying to wrack my head around Talia's initial open letter.

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[Avani]

You did well to avoid reading it.

This topic has become a bit complicated and I'm not sure what the thread is discussing anymore. Some parts are about whether they were right to terminate Talia, others about whether the minimum wage is fair, others about those who criticized Talia as entitled.

I'm glad you linked that article as it did give another opinion, though I found it a bit limited. The criticisms were directed at Stefanie Williams, the fellow writer who started the criticism movement. I'm still trying to wrack my head around Talia's initial open letter.

Seeing her account says:

talia jane
comedy • writing • obligatory third thing

She posted a satire on the minimum wages in an area where cost of living is higher, but her company didn't feel like laughing it off as it was at their expense.

That's how I see the situation at the moment. And seeing she asked for financial help, people became less sympathetic. Rest is internet for you. I can't say I am feeling much sympathetic either...Not sure if they made the plan to move to low living cost area after the fiasco or already had in plans. So she may or may not have triggered something positive.

Edit: Too many errors. I am too tired to post coherently. See you guys later.

 

[Iruka]

Seeing her account says:

talia jane
comedy • writing • obligatory third thing

She posted a satire on the minimum wages in an area where cost of living is higher, but her company didn't feel like laughing it off as it was at their expense.

That's how I see the situation at the moment. And seeing she asked for financial help, people became less sympathetic. Rest is internet for you. I can't say I am feeling much sympathetic either...Not sure if they made the plan to move to low living cost area after the fiasco or already had in plans. So she may or may not have triggered something positive.

That's about as much as I could discern too. I got a tad confused because people are arguing as though she had written a genuine letter to her CEO and that they had fired her for it speaking out against them. It reads exactly like satire that wasn't intended to actually reach the CEO.

Edit: Too many errors. I am too tired to post coherently. See you guys later.

Likewise. I'm too far from awake to process what's happening here. Thanks for your input.

 

[Scooby Doo]

No problem, it's a bit subjective so disagreeing is quite alright. By 'borderline slanderous' I meant she was tip-toeing around the point of defamation. Google tells me that slander is verbal rather than written, so libel may be the correct term. I wasn't aware that slanderous had any connection to mental disorders so sorry for that confusion.

Edit:

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Wow I'm an idiot. It was my use of 'borderline' that caused the confusion not 'slanderous'. I meant borderline in that it was very marginal, not as a reference to borderline personality disorder. My bad.

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I don't see it as direct malicious lying but rather untruths and misrepresentation. This is partially why it's subjective, I think she over-exaggerated for effect and presented a very one-sided story.



She'd been with the company for approximately six months, also living alone in an apartment for six months. As someone in the comments section pointed out, during that time her Twitter/Instagram showed her buying groceries, cosmetics, alcohol, eating out at restaurants, setting up cable TV, and possibly having a boyfriend to share living costs with. That these things weren't listed in the article, some contradicting it even, makes me feel misled.



Her choice of public platform confused me. From what I can tell, Medium is a social community based around writing. It's almost like Tumblr only with articles rather than images (I'm being slightly flippant with that). To me that raises the question of whether she ever meant for this to reach her company. She titled it as an open letter to her CEO but I haven't seen mention of her asking internally for promotion opportunity or other means of financial assistance. I genuinely think she wrote this as an angry rant for the Medium community, and unless she also CC'd someone in the company, didn't expect it to be discovered.

Edit:

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With that in mind, I don't think she was ever begging alms, more that she was writing in jest about her coworkers being underpaid to the point of needing to visit the soup kitchen.

In regard to the bold, I believe that message has already been conveyed under the guise of professionalism. Complaining about your salary to coworkers is your common watercooler hot topic and it goes unnoticed. Stepping up from that to publishing an article which names your CEO and paint him in such a negative light is something else entirely and there's a reason people post such things anonymously. I'll be the first to say I'm biased towards the employer though. In my previous employments I've had to sign non-disclosure agreements and have been privy to sensitive information. I may be unfairly putting undue responsibility on this woman's shoulders, something that would get me fired may not be enough to get her fired also.



Regarding the bold, I both agree and disagree as strange as that sounds. I agree that actions have consequences however I feel some sympathy because, as my previous section said, I don't think she ever expected her words to reach such a wide audience.

Wait...I guess I misunderstood...I thought she really wrote a letter, on paper, enveloped it, and sent it in mail to the CEO.

If she just posted an imaginary letter on twitter, then that's a whole different story. Of course in that case it's no surprise she got fired.

 

[shelke]

What a bunch of dull-witted posters. Typically idiotic. Asking for a raise is a very common occurrence and a fair demand. It is carried out in both governmental and private sectors. And for reasons such as living standards, wages meeting ends or not etc. No one fires someone over asking for raise.

Saying as a person is entitled for such legitimate reasons is the new evil of the socio-economic setups in this world. Just when I thought this forum could sink no lower.

 

[Hawker]

What a bunch of dull-witted posters. Typically idiotic. Asking for a raise is a very common occurrence and a fair demand. It is carried out in both governmental and private sectors. And for reasons such as living standards, wages meeting ends or not etc. No one fires someone over asking for raise.

Saying as a person is entitled for such a legitimate reasons is the new evil of the socio-economic setups in this world. Just when I thought this forum could sink no lower.

She didn't "just ask a raise". Maybe you should read the source before commenting. lmao

 

[shelke]

She didn't "just ask a raise". Maybe you should read the source before commenting. lmao

I have read the thread and the source as well. Have you even have had a job? clearly not. Your immaturity is off the charts.

 

[Hawker]

I have read the thread and the source as well. Have you even have had a job? clearly not. Your immaturity is off the charts.

Lmao. First of all she had 10 absences out of her first 59 workdays with the company. Secondly she was blaming the company for her problems.

You're the immature one here. Because you're not being realistic. She should take responsibility for her actions and not cry like that on top of her absences.

I've probably worked more than you in my life. How's 5 years in 4 different jobs and 1 year at the army sound? But this is not about me. Read the source next time you come in a thread babbling your hate filled childis accusations.

I'll copy one comment from the comment section of that artice which says the same thing I've been saying the whole time in this thread:

"This has nothing to do with your role as an employee. If you hired a babysitter, and your babysitter didn't show up ten times in the first 59 days, would you be understanding? How long would you put up with it until you found someone reliable?

Being a single mother doesn't give you special status as an employee. We all make choices, if you choose to be a mother, you'll have a lot more riding on your shoulders. Your personal obligations are yours and not your employers responsibility.

I get frustrated when people make things so outrageously complicated. It's a simple thing; you find a company to work for. You accept the job and the pay rate and agree to perform certain tasks in exchange for compensation. You have set days and hours of required attendance. The company chooses you out of many other applicants because you have convinced them off your ambition and reliability.

If you show up, do your work and follow the rules, you'll be paid for your time and effort.

That's how it works.

All of us have things going on behind the scenes. We all have really good reasons to call in sick. We have to make choices, do we want that paycheck or do we stay home?

You chose to stay home. They chose to replace you with someone who has less personal distractions."

 

[shelke]

Lmao. First of all she had 10 absences out of her first 59 workdays with the company. Secondly she was blaming the company for her problems.

You're the immature one here. Because you're not being realistic. She should take responsibility for her actions and not cry like that on top of her absences.

I've probably worked more than you in my life. How's 5 years in 4 different jobs and 1 year at the army sound? But this is not about me. Read the source next time you come in a thread babbling your hate filled childis accusations.

I'll copy one comment from the comment section of that artice which says the same thing I've been saying the whole time in this thread:

Still dull-witted, I see. It's not like I haven't seen this pattern from you before. I remember those "west is awesome" posts. A company is to blame if it doesn't pay decent wages. Problems would arise in personal life if a person isn't making ends meet.

Abscenes result in pay cuts and a warning. Ten days are hardly enough to warrent a direct termination. But would result in pay cut and a warning. Like I said, doesn't seem like you have ever worked. And why are you frothing at the mouth over this issue, defending the company as if your worthless defense-force means something ... anything? Pray tell as the childish irony is already rolling forward for you.

P.s: And do make it worth while. I don't have time for your petty spins.

 

[Hawker]

Still dull-witted, I see. It's not like I haven't seen this pattern from you before. I remember those "west is awesome" posts. A company is to blame if it doesn't pay decent wages. Problems would arise in personal life if a person isn't making ends meet.

Abscenes result in pay cuts and a warning. Ten days are hardly enough to warrent a direct termination. But would result in pay cut and a warning. Like I said, doesn't seem like you have ever worked. And why are you frothing at the mouth over this issue, defending the company as if your worthless defense-force means something ... anything? Pray tell as the childish irony is already rolling forward for you.

P.s: And do make it worth while. I don't have time for your petty spins.

No actually absence can in fact result in terminating your employement status. Especially when you've just started. It eems you've not worked a day in your life or have no idea about the legal issues here.

*Company is to blame if it doesn't pay decent wages". No it's not. Maybe morally, but as long as the company is following the law then that's not reason to held it accountable for your problems. You are if you chose that job. There are plenty of people willing to work that job so if the pay isn't enough for you then leave. No one is forcing you to stay.

I can't believe someone is that naive.

 

[shelke]

No actually absence can in fact result in terminating your employment status. Especially when you've just started. It seems you've not worked a day in your life or have no idea about the legal issues here.

*Company is to blame if it doesn't pay decent wages". No it's not. Maybe morally, but as long as the company is following the law then that's not reason to held it accountable for your problems. You are if you chose that job. There are plenty of people willing to work that job so if the pay isn't enough for you then leave. No one is forcing you to stay.

I can't believe someone is that naive.

It depends upon the days. The rest of your post is worthless; a recurring pattern, it seems.