Ultimate/perfect shinobi, yet underrated. His true power

KingHashirama

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yes all thanks to itachi. but now madara isn't kabuto's pawn.
and all of these reference to EMS madara which i don't care about. madara believes he is superior and he is superior by feats and hype.

tell me how?

Go learn what hype means. There is no superior hype for Madara. You claim the meteors..... meteors are a suicide move. *_*


So you don't care about EMS Madara, but call your self a Madara fan? Wtfh is this ****ery
How do people not realize his power? He's revered for being the God of shinobi because he defeated EMS Madara + Kyuubi. But Now Madara has Rinnegan + Moktuon which > Kyuubi.

My top 5 is
1- Rikudou Sennin
2- Sage Obito
3- Madara
4- Hashirama
5- Naruto

No hate man, not trying to cause a problem I have mad respect for Hashirama and I actually like his character more than Madara's for many reasons. I'm just really logical and I have a hard time understanding how Hashirama wins with Madara's current power.

Because of the bold your not being logical. We know most of Madara's arsenal. Do we know of Hashirama's? no. By hype he still has a whole lot jutsu....

So here is the question how does Madara beat Hashirama?

Your putting Quanitity > Quality.

Oh, Hashi was stronger than his younger brother as a kid. Weird. I can't imagine how that can be anything but an indication of him being stronger than Tobirama FOREVER.

Hashi used a near-instinctive bloodline almost exclusively in battle. His vitality was such that he could heal himself even WITHOUT the massive medical knowledge and sealing skills of Tsunade.

Tobirama had a water-affinity, and a lot of creativity.

I know which one I think is more skilled.

Without knowledge of medical ninjutsu? your reading the wrong manga mate. Hashirama in fact was a medical ninja.

Hashirama's bloodline is the same as Tobirama's. Hashirama simply possess higher chakra and a KKG.

Do you think Mokuton jutsu come with scrolls? or pre-taught crap like the Sharingan and Rinnegan or Byakugan? no.

Showing superiority in taijutsu and other fields already puts him at above level then Tobirama. Your excuse is he had a kkg...... Tobirama had senju blood...... o_O.
 
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phantomlord22

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hashirama underrated ?
hashirama is the strongest beside 1st Rikudu (the sage) and 2nd rikudu (obito) and edo-madara

1.1st rikudu
2.2nd rikudu
3. hashirama
4. prime madara

note: why didn't list edo madara? cuz he is stronger than madara due to edo tensei and hashirama's powers
so If hashirama had madara's power as well then once again hashirama > Madara
 

Crossroads

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Go learn what hype means. There is no superior hype for Madara. You claim the meteors..... meteors are a suicide move. *_*


So you don't care about EMS Madara, but call your self a Madara fan? Wtfh is this ****ery


Because of the bold your not being logical. We know most of Madara's arsenal. Do we know of Hashirama's? no. By hype he still has a whole lot jutsu....

So here is the question how does Madara beat Hashirama?

Your putting Quanitity > Quality.

So basically you're telling me you're putting your judgement of Hashirama being stronger on the faith that your favorite character is stronger now because he was once. That's not being logical at all.

That's like saying Lee is stronger than Sasuke because Sasuke was about to lose that one time during the Chuunin Exam arc.
Did Madara get modified with Mokuton? Yeah. Even if you take away that I think the Rinnegan is enough to take down Hashirama if his own arsenal hasn't changed. But it'd be extremely hard.
 

Crossroads

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So here is the question how does Madara beat Hashirama?

And to answer this, it's basically Madara overwhelming Hashirama with his new Rinnegan abilities, while countering Mokuton with Mokuton.
 

Bronze

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Go learn what hype means. There is no superior hype for Madara. You claim the meteors..... meteors are a suicide move. *_*


So you don't care about EMS Madara, but call your self a Madara fan? Wtfh is this ****ery

i will support all of madara's hypes with manga scans.

Lord Madara's Hypes:

1.The Second Sage Of 6 Paths: .

2.Has The Power Of SO6P: .

3.His Name Is Power: .

4.The Only That Can Compete With Hashirama: .

these madara's hypes and he has justified them all. i brought manga scans so you don't call me troll.

i am edo madara's fan not EMS madara.
 

Tingun

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Calvin > Hashirama & Madara Combined.
 

EZQ

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Kabuto (with edo tensei) > hashirama deal with it
 

Piratefish

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Without knowledge of medical ninjutsu? your reading the wrong manga mate. Hashirama in fact was a medical ninja.

Hashirama's bloodline is the same as Tobirama's. Hashirama simply possess higher chakra and a KKG.

Do you think Mokuton jutsu come with scrolls? or pre-taught crap like the Sharingan and Rinnegan or Byakugan? no.

Showing superiority in taijutsu and other fields already puts him at above level then Tobirama. Your excuse is he had a kkg...... Tobirama had senju blood...... o_O.

I didn't say he WASN'T a medical ninja. I said Tsunade was and is a far better one.

And Hashi can still heal himself as well or better than she can. Because his body is vitality incarnate. Because of the Mokuton.

KKG = Kekkei Genkai = Bloodline Limit. So Tobi and Hashi have the same Bloodline, yes, but only Hashi has the Limit. And Kekkei Genkai are, to a large degree, instinctive. Look at Haku, killing his father just after learning he could even do anything unusual.

So essentially, Hashirama got a random, once-in-a-millenium bloodline, and then used it almost exclusively in combat. Sure, he was skilled. But when your chakra is stronger than EVERYONE ALIVE, your body is stronger than EVERYONE ALIVE, and your bloodline PUTS THE ETERNAL MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN TO SHAME, I don't think you can convincingly say that SKILL is the reason Hashirama was the strongest ninja in his age.
 

OWanime

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edo madara sends meteor and it'll hurt both of them xd he can't absorb wood justu with preta path (the only path madara seems to have) since it's made out of life energy and he has no kyubi and a lesser form of mokuton (even if it's equal hashirama can just sage mode and boost it up) edo madara is equal to hashirama if not lesser
 

KingHashirama

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So basically you're telling me you're putting your judgement of Hashirama being stronger on the faith that your favorite character is stronger now because he was once. That's not being logical at all.

That's like saying Lee is stronger than Sasuke because Sasuke was about to lose that one time during the Chuunin Exam arc.
Did Madara get modified with Mokuton? Yeah. Even if you take away that I think the Rinnegan is enough to take down Hashirama if his own arsenal hasn't changed. But it'd be extremely hard.
1. Hes not my fav..... Naruto >> Hashirama, in terms of my fav

2. No highly false, my judgement is based on the logic of , proof. Though yours is based on assumptions. You want me to believe Madara is stronger because he has more techniques and part of Hashirama's power. But I cannot, Madara got upgraded with Mokuton, but did he get the strong ass chakra Hashirama has? no. Did he get Sage mode? no.....

To be logically honest Hashirama wouldn't even have needed the buddha, if he would've put down ps + Kurama before the swords....

No, Lee vs Sasuke was never trully a one vs one shinobi battle. So bad example.

How do we know Madara can beat Hashirama, when Madara says he can still stop him. And Hashirama says only Obito has surpassed him.. even after seeing all the shit Madara now has. So tell me how? I can't. You can't bash on my logic, because it is reasonable, and dependent on the basis of proof.

By your logic Madara > Rikudou also.


I didn't say he WASN'T a medical ninja. I said Tsunade was and is a far better one.

And Hashi can still heal himself as well or better than she can. Because his body is vitality incarnate. Because of the Mokuton.

KKG = Kekkei Genkai = Bloodline Limit. So Tobi and Hashi have the same Bloodline, yes, but only Hashi has the Limit. And Kekkei Genkai are, to a large degree, instinctive. Look at Haku, killing his father just after learning he could even do anything unusual.

So essentially, Hashirama got a random, once-in-a-millenium bloodline, and then used it almost exclusively in combat. Sure, he was skilled. But when your chakra is stronger than EVERYONE ALIVE, your body is stronger than EVERYONE ALIVE, and your bloodline PUTS THE ETERNAL MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN TO SHAME, I don't think you can convincingly say that SKILL is the reason Hashirama was the strongest ninja in his age.

highly false, Mokuton plays no role in the healing unless you have proof.

Though where is the proof Mokuton increases taijutsu skills, genjutsu skills?

TOBIRAMA HAS THE SECOND STRONGEST CHAKRA SHOWN.... SO WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?

MAdara has more skills then Tobirama, because of the sharingan...... KKG is part of those people.

Mokuton requires special skills, its not Rinnegan or Sharingan or Byakugan where you automatically get them. God damn man.

Very nice thread, fun to read and very insightful.

Be on the look out for my next thread about Mei *_*
 
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Retsu

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He's not underrated in the least, if you ask me, Nagato is more underrated
 

Crossroads

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1. Hes not my fav..... Naruto >> Hashirama, in terms of my fav

2. No highly false, my judgement is based on the logic of , proof. Though yours is based on assumptions. You want me to believe Madara is stronger because he has more techniques and part of Hashirama's power. But I cannot, Madara got upgraded with Mokuton, but did he get the strong ass chakra Hashirama has? no. Did he get Sage mode? no.....

To be logically honest Hashirama wouldn't even have needed the buddha, if he would've put down ps + Kurama before the swords....

No, Lee vs Sasuke was never trully a one vs one shinobi battle. So bad example.

How do we know Madara can beat Hashirama, when Madara says he can still stop him. And Hashirama says only Obito has surpassed him.. even after seeing all the shit Madara now has. So tell me how? I can't. You can't bash on my logic, because it is reasonable, and dependent on the basis of proof.

By your logic Madara > Rikudou also.




highly false, Mokuton plays no role in the healing unless you have proof.

Though where is the proof Mokuton increases taijutsu skills, genjutsu skills?

TOBIRAMA HAS THE SECOND STRONGEST CHAKRA SHOWN.... SO WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?

MAdara has more skills then Tobirama, because of the sharingan...... KKG is part of those people.

Mokuton requires special skills, its not Rinnegan or Sharingan or Byakugan where you automatically get them. God damn man.



Be on the look out for my next thread about Mei *_*

Lol. You keep changing the subject and you're not making any sense.. I'm just going to say you're butthurt because someone you like can't best someone he used to best. Plain and simple. /peace
 

KingHashirama

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Lol. You keep changing the subject and you're not making any sense.. I'm just going to say you're butthurt because someone you like can't best someone he used to best. Plain and simple. /peace

Though I can say the same for you? Your butthurt that Hashirama is called the God of Shinobi, can bust rooms just by his chakra.... While Madara needs to be a Edo to be even on his level.........

And we are on the same topic.. i guess you just had no counter...

underrated?
thanks for the laugh

read the thread, then ask the question. If you disagree on why i said hes underrated, then you haven't been paying attention on NB.
 

Piratefish

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highly false, Mokuton plays no role in the healing unless you have proof.

Though where is the proof Mokuton increases taijutsu skills, genjutsu skills?

TOBIRAMA HAS THE SECOND STRONGEST CHAKRA SHOWN.... SO WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?

MAdara has more skills then Tobirama, because of the sharingan...... KKG is part of those people.

Mokuton requires special skills, its not Rinnegan or Sharingan or Byakugan where you automatically get them. God damn man.

Tsunade is a medic. It's what she is. The bloody cornerstone of her identity, the whole foundation of her fighting style and philosophy. And even she can't *HEAL HERSELF* just like that. No, she made a chakra-absorbing, control-enhancing seal to HELP her do it in the middle of combat.

Hashirama is mentioned, like once, to be a medic by Madara. Are his medical skills ever alluded to otherwise? No. And yet he's as good as Tsunade! He DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SEAL!

The only reasonable explanation is Mokuton.


Mokuton probably doesn't increase Genjutsu proficiency. But Taijutsu? Dear lord yes. Hashi has the strongest body, the strongest chakra, the strongest vitality. OF COURSE it helps with Taijutsu.

Tobirama has strong chakra, true. But where Hashirama competes with MADARA AND THE KYUUBI, he fights Izuna. He discovers Edo Tensei, which doesn't use any chakra of his own. Second strongest chakra probably goes to Madara.

Excuse me, HOW does one "AUTOMATICALLY GET" skills through the Byakugan? You see better, with a wider viewpoint. You do the rest yourself. Neji worked himself to the bone, Hinata certainly didn't get *extreme power upgrades* at any point. And then, the Rinnegan. Nagato DID kill some dudes at a young age, with little control over his powers. But even against Hanzou that first time, he didn't suddenly GET any other power than the one that left him crippled. It was only after that that he began to really use the Rinnegan's abilities.

The difference with the Rinnegan and Byakugan to the Sharingan and Mokuton are that they don't immediately make you stronger in combat. Rinnegan is haxed, sure, but you can kill or maim yourself if you use it unwisely or without knowing how. Byakugan makes you see moreYou have to work like hell to get good with the viewpoints you've been offered. The other two, though, immediately increase strength with no real drawbacks.

Except, wait! The Sharingan requires sacrifice, emotional anguish, horrendous circumstances, in order to unlock its full potential.

Mokuton doesn't even have those.

Look at Haku. He has the KKG closest to Mokuton, a two-element combo. Haku INSTICTIVELY uses his power to kill his father, Haku INSTINCTIVELY MADE the sophisticated and dangerous Demonic Ice Mirror Dome. No instruction in the specifics of his bloodline. He was like fourteen or something.

Bloodlines in general are EASY to use and not exactly hard to use well. It's just lucky for Hashi that he was born with the most powerful one.
 

Jikukan

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People seem to forget edo Madara has the powers of Hashirama.. DNA/Mokuton etc. That must be really hard to accept for Madara fanboys.

I see why ppl say edo Madara with the DNA and mokuton of Hashirama is stronger atm than Hashirama himself.. but dont you think Hashirama would have said that Madara at his current state is stronger than him like he said with juubito?

Right, so we cannot say until we see the actual fight between them.. and im not sure if thats gonna be a fair fight.. Madara is sitting with his lazy ass on a rock for how long now?? While Hashirama is putting his effort on the battlefield.

Obviously at the time when they were in their prime,, Hashirama was the strongest.. ppl saying they were equal because they fought so many times with ending a draw, but that was only because of Hashirama's kind and honest personality (what i really like about Hashirama) The last battle we saw Hashirama finally realized killing him was the best choice for the shinobi world, and he did what he had to do.. assuming he could have done that from the verry beginning.

And ofc is Juubito (obito/juubito i find personally a big fail of kishi) stronger than hashirama, give Hashirama the ten tails and he would be on par with Rikudou sennin.. would Juubito be stronger than Rikidou sennin? No way , he is far away from that, he lacks the skills and mind/personality.

To me it looks like Hashirama accomplished al the powers he had by himself through hard work, and if i look to madara i have the feeling just like all other uchiha's.. they just got their technique's by getting sharingan.. its looks so easy and cheap ass, they even get the eyes from other uchiha's.. like madara got them from his brother.. it is just too damn easy!

So thats why i rate Hashirama much higher in skil but also in personality than madara, no matter what outcome we get in their second fight.
But i stil am curious about how Hashirama died.. i hope kishi doesnt gonna **** up this one, but i have a bad feeling about it
 
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