Ultimate evidence that Byakugan > Sharingan

[Made in Heaven]

You indeed repeated it two times as I myself have remarked so it seems your fanfics aren't a product of Hyuga bias but overall bad reading comprehension. You're also for the third time calling my post "hater fic" so I can't help but say:

1) that's not a real world
2) no, it's not even appropriate as a comeback

The fact that you think it makes you look smart makes this all the more sad. As for this latest attempt, you've yet again failed miserably and simply repeated what you said for the third time while not replying to my actual objection. Nice practice of hypocrisy as you're the one who doesn't even get what's being said. Since you're pulling for simplicity here's a simplified version of my objection, so maybe now you'll get it:

Your point no.1: Genjutsu requires eyecontact (agreed)
Your point no.2: Closing eyes prevents eyecontact (agreed)
Your point no.3: Hyuga see through eyelids so they both avoid genjutsu and see well. <-- lmfao

The only reason why closing eyes actually prevents eyecontact is because eyelids obstruct one's sight. The mere fact that you say Hyuga's sight doesn't get blocked by eyelids means they just will make eyecontact. It literally makes no difference whether they close them or not. Is this so hard for you to understand?

(Not to mention that was just one in a series of arguments which you autistically ignored - again, come back when you actually have a rebuttal.)

No, it's the user that has to make eye contact. If a Byakugan user and Sharingan user are divided by a wall, the Hyuga can use their Byakugan to see through the wall and see the Uchiha's eyes, that doesn't mean the Uchiha can see the Hyuga's eyes because their eyes wouldn't be able to see through the wall, thus they won't be able to send Chakra into the Hyuga's eyes for genjutsu. The eyelids act in the same manner. Suppose, when Kurenai and Asuma closed their eyes to counter Itachi's Tsukyomi, let's say they had Byakugan and could see through their lids. This at all wouldn't change the fact that Itachi couldn't see their eyes so he couldn't cast Tsukyomi.

As for Shisui, I agree he beats Hiashi w/ KA, but I think Hiashi takes it if he can't use it.

Still think he beats Fugaku though, and tbh I dont care to further argue it so its w/e

 

[Marin]

It' s the user that has to make eye contact.

No, it's the user that has to make eye contact. If a Byakugan user and Sharingan user are divided by a wall, the Hyuga can use their Byakugan to see through the wall and see the Uchiha's eyes, that doesn't mean the Uchiha can see the Hyuga's eyes because their eyes wouldn't be able to see through the wall, thus they won't be able to send Chakra into the Hyuga's eyes for genjutsu. The eyelids act in the same manner. Suppose, when Kurenai and Asuma closed their eyes to counter Itachi's Tsukyomi, let's say they had Byakugan and could see through their lids. This at all wouldn't change the fact that Itachi couldn't see their eyes so he couldn't cast Tsukyomi.

I'm beginning to think you people don't understand what eyesight and genjutsu are in the first place. Sight is the accumulated reception of visual input. All genjutsu users cast their illusion either through a wide-range area (like Tayuya's flute) or a pin point (Sharingan user). In all cases, the caster has it up to him to "emit the signal". In this sense, the caster is merely transmitting the illusion and in this (Sharingan's) case, pinpoint it in direction of the target's eyes.

The victim, however, is on the recieving end and it is the reciever that is crucial for the sucess of the jutsu, not the caster. Much like how any signal transmitter, the caster of the genjutsu simply sends the illusion over to the target, and if the target is unable to fend it off (by cutting away the medium be it sight or hearing) they will recieve the signal.

You two think that eyelids will block one signal (genjutsu) even if the target still recieves all the other signals (visual input). Do you not see the problem here?? That visual input - information content - just is the genjutsu signal the caster is transmitting. (You can't single out the ones you don't want to see.) The byakugan eyes render all the things that would normally obstruct the signal meaningless since the recieving end would still recieve all the input and thus get hit by the jutsu.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Except Mind Transfer was assisted by another person other than the caster. The frequency does matter, because if a technique listed as a bloodline limit is used by someone who doesn't have it, then there's an obvious problem going on. Clearly you can see the problem with your example.

Yeah.

I'll take credit in that I assumed it was so since I didn't have a copy of the Databook itself, but that simply means I just have to present another example, and one that I personally verified is a bloodline limit:

You must be registered for see links

. Just one example is all it takes for my point to stand, and if you know this along with my explanation above, the rest of the points in your prior post are shut down.

You're right in saying that techniques that utilize bloodline abilities are classified as blood line limits (just as Lightening Transmission uses Kamui and thus is listed as a KKG). However, in this sense, only 64 Palms really qualifies as a Byakugan-aided ability. Hinata has used Air Palm w/o Byakugan, yet it's still a KKG. Twin Lion Fists has also been used w/o Byakugan in The Last, still called a KKG. Rotation, of ALL the Jyuken techniques, has no need at all for Byakugan's visual prowess, yet it's still a KKG.

This would make sense if the Gentle Fist was a technique, but it is a fighting style. You yourself said it encapsulates many things. As long as you're using chakra against chakra itself or the inner body, you are using Gentle Fist, as explained in the manga. Neji merely made pure chakra extend from his fingers. Nothing more nor less. Having a ninja without the Byakugan do the same thing does not mean, by any normal standard, that it is then not Gentle Fist. There is no difference.

No, there is.

>Neji broke that web with Jyuken
>You claim the same could be done with Chakra Scapel
>Naruto couldn't break it with a Kunai
>Even EMS Sasuke claimed swords are useless against it, same guy with the Kusanagi Blade.
>EMS Sasuke resorted as far as a Blaze Style + Susano'O Sword Slash to rid the Webs
>Therefore, Neji wasn't cutting the webs with Jyuken, he was destroying them w/ Jyuken's Chakra-destroying abilities
>Thus, Chakra Scapels can't cut the web, unless you want to argue that thing is superior to Sasuke/Itachi's various swords
>Therefore, your claim that Jyuken and extended Chakra from ones fingers (like what Sakura did when attempting to save Naruto) are the same thing is not right.

 

[davidou]

I'm beginning to think you people don't understand what eyesight and genjutsu are in the first place. Sight is the accumulated reception of visual input. All genjutsu users cast their illusion either through a wide-range area (like Tayuya's flute) or a pin point (Sharingan user). In all cases, the caster has it up to him to "emit the signal". In this sense, the caster is merely transmitting the illusion and in this (Sharingan's) case, pinpoint it in direction of the target's eyes.

The victim, however, is on the recieving end and it is the reciever that is crucial for the sucess of the jutsu, not the caster. Much like how any signal transmitter, the caster of the genjutsu simply sends the illusion over to the target, and if the target is unable to fend it off (by cutting away the medium be it sight or hearing) they will recieve the signal.

You two think that eyelids will block one signal (genjutsu) even if the target still recieves all the other signals (visual input). Do you not see the problem here?? That visual input - information content - just is the genjutsu signal the caster is transmitting. (You can't single out the ones you don't want to see.) The byakugan eyes render all the things that would normally obstruct the signal meaningless since the recieving end would still recieve all the input and thus get hit by the jutsu.

They don' t receive the visible spectrum when their eyes are closed, the visible spectrum doesn' t pass through eyelips or walls, the byakugan can detect what is behind a wall, that means they don' t use the visible spectrum to detect what is behind the wall.Some kind of X ray vision, or an infrared camera.
If the user of the sharingan used that signal that passes through matter to cast his genjutsus, closing eyes would be useless as his signal will pass through the eyelips and attain your eyes, but the fact is it isn' t.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

I'm beginning to think you people don't understand what eyesight and genjutsu are in the first place. Sight is the accumulated reception of visual input. All genjutsu users cast their illusion either through a wide-range area (like Tayuya's flute) or a pin point (Sharingan user). In all cases, the caster has it up to him to "emit the signal". In this sense, the caster is merely transmitting the illusion and in this (Sharingan's) case, pinpoint it in direction of the target's eyes.

The victim, however, is on the recieving end and it is the reciever that is crucial for the sucess of the jutsu, not the caster. Much like how any signal transmitter, the caster of the genjutsu simply sends the illusion over to the target, and if the target is unable to fend it off (by cutting away the medium be it sight or hearing) they will recieve the signal.

You two think that eyelids will block one signal (genjutsu) even if the target still recieves all the other signals (visual input). Do you not see the problem here?? That visual input - information content - just is the genjutsu signal the caster is transmitting. (You can't single out the ones you don't want to see.) The byakugan eyes render all the things that would normally obstruct the signal meaningless since the recieving end would still recieve all the input and thus get hit by the jutsu.

Ahahahahah what ?

 

[unknownvillain1254]

I'm beginning to think you people don't understand what eyesight and genjutsu are in the first place. Sight is the accumulated reception of visual input. All genjutsu users cast their illusion either through a wide-range area (like Tayuya's flute) or a pin point (Sharingan user). In all cases, the caster has it up to him to "emit the signal". In this sense, the caster is merely transmitting the illusion and in this (Sharingan's) case, pinpoint it in direction of the target's eyes.

The victim, however, is on the recieving end and it is the reciever that is crucial for the sucess of the jutsu, not the caster. Much like how any signal transmitter, the caster of the genjutsu simply sends the illusion over to the target, and if the target is unable to fend it off (by cutting away the medium be it sight or hearing) they will recieve the signal.

You two think that eyelids will block one signal (genjutsu) even if the target still recieves all the other signals (visual input). Do you not see the problem here?? That visual input - information content - just is the genjutsu signal the caster is transmitting. (You can't single out the ones you don't want to see.) The byakugan eyes render all the things that would normally obstruct the signal meaningless since the recieving end would still recieve all the input and thus get hit by the jutsu.

Byakugan stop genjutus easy byakugan can see Chaka and form a chaka wall to block the chaka from entering

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Man I dont remember thread so funny as this

 

[Marin]

They don' t receive the visible spectrum when their eyes are closed, the visible spectrum doesn' t pass through eyelips or walls, the byakugan can detect what is behind a wall, that means they don' t use the visible spectrum to detect what is behind the wall.Some kind of X ray vision, or an infrared camera.

Correction: they wouldn't receive the visible spectrum when their eyes are closed, had they not activated the Byakugan. It is precisely because Byakugan's vision is so strong that the eyelids don't prevent the Byakugan from seeing through them. And on what basis are you saying Byakugan doesn't use the visible spectrum? All we've seen was that it can see tenketsu, chakra etc not that it can go to a solely X-ray plane like it was illustrated in certain panels for convenience sake.

If the user of the sharingan used that signal that passes through matter to cast his genjutsus, closing eyes would be useless as his signal will pass through the eyelips and attain your eyes, but the fact is it isn' t.

Again, it's the receiving end that's crucial here. The signal need not pierce the eyelids if the target will see through them anyway - what's necessary is the target coming into contact with the caster's eyes - the only method we've seen used to prevent this was either looking away or closing eyes. Unfortunately, neither of these work when you get your eyes to cover 360° and (per your words) look while having closed eyes.

The way I see it, Hyuga ought to not use the Byakugan if they want to avoid getting struck by genjutsu.

 

[davidou]

Correction: they wouldn't receive the visible spectrum when their eyes are closed, had they not activated the Byakugan. It is precisely because Byakugan's vision is so strong that the eyelids don't prevent the Byakugan from seeing through them. And on what basis are you saying Byakugan doesn't use the visible spectrum? All we've seen was that it can see tenketsu, chakra etc not that it can go to a solely X-ray plane like it was illustrated in certain panels for convenience sake.



Again, it's the receiving end that's crucial here. The signal need not pierce the eyelids if the target will see through them anyway - what's necessary is the target coming into contact with the caster's eyes - the only method we've seen used to prevent this was either looking away or closing eyes. Unfortunately, neither of these work when you get your eyes to cover 360° and (per your words) look while having closed eyes.

The way I see it, Hyuga ought to not use the Byakugan if they want to avoid getting struck by genjutsu.

You are wrong, even if the byakugan is super strong, that doesn' t change the fact that eyelids or walls blocks the visible spectrum.You really think that when they put the byakugan on, the visible light change its properties and passes through walls?You are wrong because if that was the case, when a byakugan is on, everybody around would be able to see through walls, and it isn' t the case.
Your eye sees what enters into your eye, if the light is blocked by your eyelip you don' t see anything.That is why Byakugan has to detect another type of light than the visible spectrum (or something else that passes through walls) to detect what is behind a wall, because visible light doesn' t pass through walls.

 

[Holy God]

You're right in saying that techniques that utilize bloodline abilities are classified as blood line limits (just as Lightening Transmission uses Kamui and thus is listed as a KKG). However, in this sense, only 64 Palms really qualifies as a Byakugan-aided ability. Hinata has used Air Palm w/o Byakugan, yet it's still a KKG. Twin Lion Fists has also been used w/o Byakugan in The Last, still called a KKG. Rotation, of ALL the Jyuken techniques, has no need at all for Byakugan's visual prowess, yet it's still a KKG.

Excuse me if I've forgotten, but is that not my point? None of the Gentle Fist techniques are Byakugan abilities, as you've now said for many techniques they only assist, and prior said "If a technique merely uses Byakugan as an assist, it's not a Byakugana ability".

No, there is.

>Neji broke that web with Jyuken
>You claim the same could be done with Chakra Scapel
>Naruto couldn't break it with a Kunai
>Even EMS Sasuke claimed swords are useless against it, same guy with the Kusanagi Blade.
>EMS Sasuke resorted as far as a Blaze Style + Susano'O Sword Slash to rid the Webs
>Therefore, Neji wasn't cutting the webs with Jyuken, he was destroying them w/ Jyuken's Chakra-destroying abilities
>Thus, Chakra Scapels can't cut the web, unless you want to argue that thing is superior to Sasuke/Itachi's various swords
>Therefore, your claim that Jyuken and extended Chakra from ones fingers (like what Sakura did when attempting to save Naruto) are the same thing is not right.

That's where we disagree. I don't believe Gentle Fist has an innate chakra destroying ability similar to Truth-Seeking Spheres. Kidoumaru said Neji merely cut the thread with his chakra at the "thinnest" part. And yes, I will say chakra is stronger than metal weapons as it can be adjusted for sharpness and is the reason why Sasuke's sword is stronger (endurance/piercing) with chakra as an external layer.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Excuse me if I've forgotten, but is that not my point? None of the Gentle Fist techniques are Byakugan abilities, as you've now said for many techniques they only assist, and prior said "If a technique merely uses Byakugan as an assist, it's not a Byakugana ability".

lol Well, from what I get, you're saying Jyuken techs are only called KKG because thy use the Byakugan as an aid for scoping/vision, right? Same way Lightening Transmission uses the warping effects of Kamui to bend the lightening so its called a KKG due to the assist even though the tech itself doesn't 100% NEED Kamui to use.

That's what I disagree with.

Rotation alone is a huge testament to this. It doesn't use the Byakugan in any shape or form, it in fact is meant to COMPENSATE for the Byakugan's shortcomings, yet it is still called a KKG, a genetic trait, without using Byakugan as an aid for anything.

That's where we disagree. I don't believe Gentle Fist has an innate chakra destroying ability similar to Truth-Seeking Spheres. Kidoumaru said Neji merely cut the thread with his chakra at the "thinnest" part. And yes, I will say chakra is stronger than metal weapons as it can be adjusted for sharpness and is the reason why Sasuke's sword is stronger (endurance/piercing) with chakra as an external layer.

Obviously it's not the same, but it is still there. And no, I dont think the VIZ scan mentions anything of Neji cutting the thinnest part iirc. It's pretty vague I will admit. But I think the case with Sasuke VS Kabuto is enough to prove what Neji did isn't the same as merely releasing Chakra from one's fingers.

But Kusanagi isn't a normal blade, on top of Sasuke being able to combine it with his Lightening Chakra, so there really is no reason for him to resort to flames and Susano'O unless he actually can't cut through it.

 

[Styles]

I'll mark this thread and reply too PB and a few other's tomorrow.